Honda MTF vs Redline MTL
alan
Honda MTF put in 30,000 miles ago. The shifting is a little bit "crunchier"
than I like. I think M. Bone is the only one that has said anything bad
about Redline that I know of...
M&M
weather, or when the tranny is warmed up, but in the cold it sucks ass. Had it
grind in 40 degrees cold. I also blew the 2nd gear(too many grinds) with the
redline in it, then switched to MTL and it cured it for about 2 months(still
racing it) then blew and wont stay in gear. I know the syncro is still good as
I can shift it in gear but it just wont stay in gear. B18B is coming in 2weeks
to take care of my problems :)
Craig Smith
in the morning the shifts were quite 'bitey' and the synthetic redline made
the gear box shift like it was warm when cold in the morning. There seem to
be conflicting opinions but I had good experiences, I plan on putting it in
my 2001 Civic Coupe when I do the first gear box oil change.
Craig.,
"alan" <acf...@yahoo.do_not_spam_me.com> wrote in message
news:a23olf$eb1$1...@usenet.Stanford.EDU...
Mista Bone
I've seen more bad bearings from Redline oils. Matter of fact ALL trannys
that I've tore apart that had bad bearings used Redline for 30+ K miles.
Go figure!
--
Charles Tague
93 Honda Civic DX HB
1.6L SOHC VTEC 15.02 @ 89 mph,1.997 60 ft.
With ZEX 75 hp ZEX 13.54 @ 99 mph, 1.908 60ft.
86 Pontiac Trans Am
305 peanut cammed 15.62 86 mph
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
"alan" <acf...@yahoo.do_not_spam_me.com> wrote in message
news:a23olf$eb1$1...@usenet.Stanford.EDU...
Bror Jace
> Honda MTF for abuse or 10w30 for normal driving.
10W30 really isn't suited for transmissions and is no longer
recommended for Hondas like it was years ago. It's too slippery and
has an inadequate additive package. Since you only have to change
tranny oil every other year or so, find the right stuff (Honda MTF or
Redline MTL) and use that.
> I've seen more bad bearings from Redline oils. Matter of fact ALL trannys
> that I've tore apart that had bad bearings used Redline for 30+ K miles.
I used Redline MTL in my 1990 Integra throughout most of its life and
sold it to a friend who continued to use Redline up until the car was
retired just shy of 180,000 miles. No transmission problems
whatsoever.
I have a '95 Civic and have used Redline MTL since 10,000 miles. My
car currently has 112,000+ miles with no shifting problems. It still
shifts great ... even in the cold.
In other words, I wholeheartedly endores the use of Redline MTL in
Honda (and most other brand) synchromesh transmissions.
However, I would expect users of Redline MTL to experience MORE
problems, though, than people who use what normal shops and
dealerships put in (Honda MTF or 10W30). 95%+ of Redline users are
serious car enthusiasts and are more likely to drive their cars HARD
and if Hondas have a weak link, it's the somewhat frail transmissions.
Redline MTL gives you better shifts across the temperature range but
its benefits are most noticeable in the cold because its synthetic
base stock flows better than mineral oil.
--- Bror Jace
pio
7500 or so miles ago, no slipping that i know of,but when i decide to change
it,should i go honda ATF?
--
AIM:Pi0masaki
http://geocities.com/pio_masaki/damage.html
mike (aka socalmike)
what bout mobil1? would that be better?
Mista Bone
grab the gears to match speeds. Synthetic oil prevents this.
--
Charles Tague
93 Honda Civic DX HB
1.6L SOHC VTEC 15.02 @ 89 mph,1.997 60 ft.
With ZEX 75 hp ZEX 13.54 @ 99 mph, 1.908 60ft.
86 Pontiac Trans Am
305 peanut cammed 15.62 86 mph
http://home.cinci.rr.com/mistab0ne/
"mike (aka socalmike)" <mikeinlakew...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:C7s18.110348$fo5.26...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
VelociRacer©
tranny oil. It was crunching 2nd badly when cold under 3000rpm, fine when
warm. It all started pretty quickly between 15k-25k. When draining the
Factory tranny oil, it looked BLACK! I still have a litre sample to compare
with. At 30k last spring, I put in Redline MTL which is bright red. Cold
shifting still crunches in 2nd under 3000rpm, but since then, I have
adjusted my shifting habit to get as close to 3000rpm as possible (while
car still cold), and shift into 2nd super fast (but careful). 9 out of 10
times I have no crunch if I shift that fast and above 2500rpm until warm.
When warm it is always good upto 7200rpm, Honda MTF or Redline MTL.
This spring I am switching back to Honda MTF because I haven't noticed any
BIG improvement I read about doing the research on 2nd gear crunch, but I
have noticed an increase in tranny whine at low speed low rpm. I will
compare color of Redline MTL at that point (15k), and put in Honda MTF,
then drain and change again with more Honda MTF in September to get as much
MTL synth out of my tranny bell housing as possible. As always, YMMV, so
try both and see what works for you. One thing is for sure, you can't go
too far wrong with Honda MTF, especially if you change it every year or
less! That is what I plan to do every year before the autocross season
start ;) I hope this helps.
To add more fuel to the fire, any have experience with BG Synchroshift or
GM Synchromesh on Honda (Civic) Manual Transaxles? Just curious :)
Bror Jace
> NEVER EVER Mobil 1 or any synthetics. The synchros require some friction to
> grab the gears to match speeds. Synthetic oil prevents this.
Mista Bone and I agree on this, for sure!
I tried Mobil 1 10W30 in my Integra's tranny before I knew better and
shifting was incredibly notchy after a few days. Just a few weeks
later I swapped it out for MTL.
--- Bror Jace
ralph
>
> I had redline in my tranny for a couple of months. It works great in hot
> weather, or when the tranny is warmed up, but in the cold it sucks ass. Had it
> grind in 40 degrees cold. I also blew the 2nd gear(too many grinds) with the
> redline in it, then switched to MTL and it cured it for about 2 months(still
> racing it) then blew and wont stay in gear. I know the syncro is still good as
> I can shift it in gear but it just wont stay in gear. B18B is coming in 2weeks
> to take care of my problems :)
My second gear started to jump out also. Took it apart, the second gear
seemed to be moved towards the end of the countershaft somehow, leaving
too much room for the selector ring to fall between synchros. Swapped in
a countershaft from another damn defective damn Honda damn Civic damn
trans and that fixed the damn thing.
--
Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a day, but set
him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
ralph
I've had two Civic trans now with bad bearings, and another one that
sounded like it when I got it used but I sent it back rather than take
it apart. No Redline near either of them. Anyway, trans #1 used regular
motor oil for a couple of years then Mobil 1 for like 5 years. The
second one was used when I got it, but used only regular motor oil since
I installed it, for maybe 4 years. I'm trying the Honda MTL now. (It's a
92, so it didn't ask for MTL in the manual, but you guys convinced me).
George Macdonald
<mikeinlakew...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Mista Bone" <Mist...@cinci.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:1Ve18.16980$yy3.2...@typhoon.neo.rr.com...
>> Honda MTF for abuse or 10w30 for normal driving.
>
>what bout mobil1? would that be better?
You mean Mobil1 engine oil?... absolutely not. The Honda MTF has some EP
additive in it (I suspect sulfur) - smell it, it smells like API gear oil.
>> I've seen more bad bearings from Redline oils. Matter of fact ALL trannys
>> that I've tore apart that had bad bearings used Redline for 30+ K miles.
>
>
Rgds, George Macdonald
"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
Robert Snow
It is my recollection that Honda did not sell their MTF at the time I
purchased the car and the recommended change interval was every two
years/30k. I used Mobil 1 without problems for the first 6 years/ 60k miles,
and switched to Honda MTF. I suspect that the MTF is more like gear oil and
does much better than old motor oil. Is the recommended change interval for
newer Hondas using MTF longer than two years/ 30k recommended for engine oil
in my manual? Typically, gear oil is much better in shear than motor oil and
that's a big factor for gear boxes.
z
> NEVER EVER Mobil 1 or any synthetics. The synchros require some friction to
> grab the gears to match speeds. Synthetic oil prevents this.
>
> --
Never had any trouble with synthetic oil in my trans, synchros looked
fine when it was taken apart for other troubles. Shifted much better
in the cold, too.
Spam Sucks
I just bought MT-90 since my VW tranny needs that range of tranny oil. The
old 86' Honda Civic tranny is using 10W40 as per the manual. Seems to be
working okay but I would probably switch it to Honda MT in the future.
--
nos...@zero.com
VW 94 Jetta 2.0L (A3), 89 GTI 16V (A2)
H 81 CB-750C, 86 Civic 1.5Lcarb DX HB (GFs)
Replace nospam with jetta to reply via e-mail
VelociRacer©
>
> M&M wrote:
> >
> > I had redline in my tranny for a couple of months. It works great in hot
> > weather, or when the tranny is warmed up, but in the cold it sucks ass. Had it
> > grind in 40 degrees cold. I also blew the 2nd gear(too many grinds) with the
> > redline in it, then switched to MTL and it cured it for about 2 months(still
> > racing it) then blew and wont stay in gear. I know the syncro is still good as
> > I can shift it in gear but it just wont stay in gear. B18B is coming in 2weeks
> > to take care of my problems :)
>
> My second gear started to jump out also. Took it apart, the second gear
> seemed to be moved towards the end of the countershaft somehow, leaving
> too much room for the selector ring to fall between synchros. Swapped in
> a countershaft from another damn defective damn Honda damn Civic damn
> trans and that fixed the damn thing.
Were your engine mounts in good shape?
Robert Snow
never had problems with Mobil 1 gear oil in transmissions. I don't think
synthetics are really much more "slippery" than conventional lubricants. The
viscosity of an oil has far more to do with improving gas mileage than
whether or not it's a synthetic. The real benefits from synthetics are the
ability to flow in cold weather and resistance to breaking down from heat
and shear. They last longer and are really limited by their ability to hold
contaminants in suspension. There are always warnings about breaking in
engines with synthetic oil, but Porsches are factory filled with Mobil 1 as
are several other makes. My experience with synthetic gear oil in the Audi
was that it was better in severe cold than a similar VW transmission using
conventional gear oil. I realize that synchros require friction to operate,
but the Audi transmission worked fine until I sold the car at about 100k.
The other benefit is a longer change interval. In fact no change was even
recommended by Audi, although I did replace the gear oil with Mobil 1 at
60k. Hondas typically use much lighter oils in the transmission, like Saab.
I would not use a heavy gear oil in a Honda transmission.
George Macdonald
>I have a 94 Accord and the manual calls for engine oil in the transmission.
>It is my recollection that Honda did not sell their MTF at the time I
>purchased the car and the recommended change interval was every two
>years/30k. I used Mobil 1 without problems for the first 6 years/ 60k miles,
>and switched to Honda MTF. I suspect that the MTF is more like gear oil and
>does much better than old motor oil. Is the recommended change interval for
>newer Hondas using MTF longer than two years/ 30k recommended for engine oil
>in my manual? Typically, gear oil is much better in shear than motor oil and
>that's a big factor for gear boxes.
Yes our 2K Accord has a 90K mile/6year change interval for normal
conditions and 30K/2year for extreme conditions. The 2001 model has a
120K/6year for normal and 60K/3years for extreme but I wonder if those even
more extended intervals are more to satisfy marketing requirements and the
current trend for low maintenance. Remember also that there have been
fairly recent changes to engine oils which have reduced the Zinc-based
anti-wear additive content.
I tend to think that, like engines, most wear damage comes from too hard
use when still cold.
>>>> Honda MTF for abuse or 10w30 for normal driving.
>>>
>>> what bout mobil1? would that be better?
>>
>> You mean Mobil1 engine oil?... absolutely not. The Honda MTF has some EP
>> additive in it (I suspect sulfur) - smell it, it smells like API gear oil.
>>
>>>> I've seen more bad bearings from Redline oils. Matter of fact ALL trannys
>>>> that I've tore apart that had bad bearings used Redline for 30+ K miles.
>
Rgds, George Macdonald
Curtis Newton <cnewton
wrote:
>My 86 Audi 5000 used synthetic gear oil right from the factory and I have
>never had problems with Mobil 1 gear oil in transmissions. I don't think
>synthetics are really much more "slippery" than conventional lubricants.
Actually, if you look at Redline MTL, they have a lubricant in the
fluid to help withthe synchros; Mobil 1 does not.
There have been many, many reports (on usenet) of folks having synchro
problems after using Mobil 1 synthetic.