WARNING: Honda Service Scam? Be careful....
TimeBelly
On Sun, 05 Jul 1998 18:20:11 GMT, nos...@spamspamspam.com told us
this:
>On one hand, I agree with you. What good would it do? And I am not a vindictive
>person - screwing the other person and getting revenge is a wasted effort if only
>done for the sake of blasting others. It's a selfish act with no tangible reward -
>quite a stupid use of my energy.
>
>On the other hand, these people tried to steal my money - no matter how you slice
>it, it's basically theft, even if not in a strict legal sense. Deep within me I
>feel that if I don't address this and let the "powers that be" know about it, then
>I am neglecting a responsibility to myself and perhaps others. If someone at Honda
>gets outraged, and someone at the service level is held accountable, maybe it will
>benefit others and wake up someone in the higher ranks. Perhaps what I would also
>like is an apology from American Honda for all this.
>
>I guess what it comes down to is this: I just can't stand idly by and let an
>injustice go unanswered. I have to do something for my own closure.
>
Fight it! People who give up and say it is not worth the trouble are
the reasons Consumers get screwed on a daily basis. If more Consumers
stood up for their rights, we'd see better prices, services and
products *very* quickly. Companies are too fat and have grown used to
lazy, non-confrontational Consumers!!! It *is* worth the trouble.
Not to retell my whole Just Brakes saga, my local Just Brakes is now
in *big* trouble and is under investigation for calming that I needed
$500 worth of work done on my '94 MX-6 (which was a well documented,
bald faced LIE). The shop foreman lost his job because of that one.
Then, there's my Pep Boys story... :o)
Call your attorney general, write your congressman, post the phone #
of the offending shop *here in this newsgroup* (I'll be more than glad
to give 'em a call and let then know what a concerned Honda owner
thinks), write/call Honda, do whatever it takes!
Now, don't get me wrong. I have a life. It is time consuming and can
be a pain in the ass, but I firmly believe in Consumers Rights and
there are plenty of organizations and individuals out there that feel
the same. Don't give up!
regards,
Time
mike
sounds like the first dealer gave it a once-over, and decided to throw
parts at it to fix the problem. i was under the impression that a
pressure test and a leak test are the first things that should be done
when checking A/C. any reputable A/C shop would have done that, without
guessing. id just avoid the first dealer, AND HCR.
Bill Kapaun
nos...@spamspamspam.com wrote:
>
> On one hand, I agree with you. What good would it do? And I am not a vindictive
> person - screwing the other person and getting revenge is a wasted effort if only
> done for the sake of blasting others. It's a selfish act with no tangible reward -
> quite a stupid use of my energy.
>
> On the other hand, these people tried to steal my money - no matter how you slice
> it, it's basically theft, even if not in a strict legal sense. Deep within me I
> feel that if I don't address this and let the "powers that be" know about it, then
> I am neglecting a responsibility to myself and perhaps others. If someone at Honda
> gets outraged, and someone at the service level is held accountable, maybe it will
> benefit others and wake up someone in the higher ranks. Perhaps what I would also
> like is an apology from American Honda for all this.
>
> I guess what it comes down to is this: I just can't stand idly by and let an
> injustice go unanswered. I have to do something for my own closure.
>
Reps. are treating people.
I would pursue the issue. Character DOES count! Maybe you can help
instill some into people who obviously are lacking some.
Steve Bishop
nos...@spamspamspam.com wrote:
>
> While I hate reading posts longer than a few lines, this is something
> that I felt you - as fellow Honda owners - should know about. I
> condensed it as much as I could without omitting the essentials:
>
> Original Situation:
>
> I brought in my CRX to the NJ Honda Service department that rebuilt the
> air conditioner for $600 22 months ago (I had a previous post on this,
> so you may be familiar with this story - but there's more). They told
> me it needed to be rebuilt again, and that the warranty was only 12
> months. After a lot of heated discussion, their final offer was to buy
> me a new a/c condenser, but that I'd still be paying close to $400 in
> labor! I insisted they at least cover the bulk of it, but they got
> surprisongly nasty (I was very even-tempered, but stood firm). Then
> without any such indication from me, they threatened to rescind the
> "deal" if I pursued this with Honda Customer Relations! I found this
> tack very sleazy - I was not making "deals", and HCR was supposedly
> there for ME and they had no right to tell me not to go there - so I
> left the dealership and called HCR. I explained this to the HCR rep,
> and he said, "So what exactly do you want from us?" Not expecting such
> an unfriendly tone, I explained that I wanted customer satisfaction, so
> he put me on hold for 15 minutes - spoke with the dealership - and then
> told me that it seemed to him that they were offering me a "good deal
> with good will", and when I told him that I though it was outrageous
> that a new Honda a/c condenser would last barely one summer, he
> responded by telling me that since it "appears that you are not
> accepting the offer in the same spirit of 'good will' that it was
> offered, then perhaps I should call the dealer and recommend that they
> withdraw the offer." I was stunned - completely underwhelmed by the
> support they gave me.
>
> Update:
>
> I had a different Honda service department (across the river in PA) look
> at the a/c system - they said they'd charge 0.5 labor to look at it and
> tell me why it really failed (non-Honda parts, whatever). So they
> looked at it and told me that the tube that connects to the condenser
> was completely loosened, that the condenser looked perfectly good - they
> were surprised anyone would even say it was bad - and that all it
> probably needed was to reconnect the tube and charge. They used a dye
> in the freon to detect possible future leaks, fully charged, and it
> maintained a consistent 37° for one hour. No leaks, no bad parts - just
> a recharge! They mentioned all this on the receipt.
>
> My question:
>
> How should I pursue this? I am very upset that the first dealership was
> perfectly willing to charge me for unnecessary work, and that the
> customer service rep for the zone not only did not suggest options, but
> basically seemed "in cahoots" with this apparent scam. I say "apparent"
> because while I cannot prove they loosened the fixture to release the
> freon, I cannot explain how at $65/hour - by the "people who know your
> car Honda best" - they could leave the tube so loose in the first place,
> or say the condenser was bad when it showed no such signs, or try to
> charge me $360 for the 1.5 to 2.0 needed to replace it. I am thinking
> of writing to the attorney general for the state of NJ, with cc's to the
> shop, the customer service rep for the NJ zone (zone 6?), Honda's
> corporate office, and the better business bureau - and possibly a local
> TV station that does consumer advocacy spots on the news.
>
> It also goes without saying that my next car will NOT be Honda/Acura -
> and I've owned Hondas and only Hondas for the last 18 years. It MAY
> still be a great car, but I cannot trust the service department - or HCR
> to back me up. Subaru seems to be at the top of my list right now.
>
> Does anyone have any other/better suggestions? I suppose if I really
> wanted to get outrageous, I could also cc a copy to the EPA since it
> appears they intentionally create an environmental hazard in the process
> of, well, whatever process they seem to have there, but maybe that'd be
> getting ridiculous???.....
>
> --
> _______________________________________________________
> le...@voicenet.com
>
> SPAM FILTER in effect! Write back to le...@voicenet.com
>
> "True simplicity lies on the far side of complexity;
> on the near side lies simplemindedness."
This is outrageous! Contact Honda Headquarters and your NJ Attorney
general office for possible fraud by the original service center.
Steve Bishop
Atlantic County
J. P.
On Sun, 05 Jul 1998 14:52:20 -0800, Bill Kapaun <wka...@proaxis.com> wrote:
>I think American Honda would like to know how their dealers AND Customer
>Reps. are treating people.
But didn't he just imply that he had talked to American Honda Customer
Service and they sided with the dealer?
Joe
Danno
John Kelly wrote:
>
> In article <359FC420...@spamspamspam.com>, nos...@spamspamspam.com wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, these people tried to steal my money - no matter how
> you slice
> > it, it's basically theft, even if not in a strict legal sense.
>
> anesthesiologist who demanded $400 **cash** before he would give a woman in
> labor, in pain, any anesthesia.
>
> You had the option to walk away, retreat, gather yourself, and pursue other
> options. And you did.
>
> People try to cheat you every day. I don't care if it's McDonald's or a
> mortgage broker, YOU are the only one in charge of seeing that you aren't
> cheated. You did that. It worked out. Lesson learned, tell all your
> friends, spout it on the net, whatever. But no harm no foul--right?
>
> Leave it be.
Do you WORK for Honda? How on earth can you just tell this guy to
"leave it be"?? Are you that die-hard Honda that you'll just look the
other way when another Honda owner is getting screwed over not only by
his local service department, but even by the people higher up? What's
wrong with you?
Sheesh...
Danno
JimSumbler
I have to agree with the notion of reporting inadequate, inappropriate, rude,
questionable, or even suspect treatment - not only for your Honda air
conditioner, but from anyone who takes your money to do things "for you," then
fails to perform or performs - by easonable standards - inadequately.
I would basically agree with your own suggestions for proceeding.
These things happen regularly for one reason only - people let them happen.
You've had the right to complain "thrust upon you."
- Jim
East Lansing
MI
nos...@spamspamspam.com
Yeppers - I did say that. I thinks he means HCR at the *corporate* level
(marketing execs) - which I will contact for sure.
J. P. wrote:
--
Michael Sykes
> > _______________________________________________________
> > le...@voicenet.com
> >
> > SPAM FILTER in effect! Write back to le...@voicenet.com
> >
> > "True simplicity lies on the far side of complexity;
> > on the near side lies simplemindedness."
>
> general office for possible fraud by the original service center.
>
> Steve Bishop
> Atlantic County
I had good luck with the regional Honda office in Moorestown, NJ (yes
its Moorestown, 609 area code). Check the inside of your owners manual
for the address.
nos...@spamspamspam.com
Michael Sykes wrote:
> Steve Bishop wrote:
>
>
> I had good luck with the regional Honda office in Moorestown, NJ (yes
> its Moorestown, 609 area code). Check the inside of your owners manual
> for the address.
That was the zone office that I dealt with. Who was your rep? There are
several. Perhaps the service is only as good as the rep. Mine sucked - all the
more surprising since I thought my complaint was valid, well-presented, and my
attitude was cordial. On the other hand, he was almost belligerent, and
certainly not sympathetic to my concerns. After I explained initially what my
concern was, he said cooly, "So what exactly do you want from us?" I thought
that rather inappropriate for a customer service representative - he should have
*told* me what they were going to do about it. But then again, he did put me on
hold for 15 minutes while he spoke with the service department - the service
department that 2 hours earlier warned me not to call HCR - so I suspect they
pulled him into their "corner" on this issue, and when he got back to me it
sounded like his mind was made up.
Wizard
response one can gice is to jump to the bottom line with; "So what
exactly do you want from us?" or put another way as I do "What will it
take to satisfy you?"
Typically if you have a legitimate complaint you will have an instant
answer.
Kevin McMurtrie
Dave Antonacci
service center and not the first?
I dont mean any disrespect, but you come across in your post as a person who
feels entitled to whatever you want. You want your car fixed and for the
dealer to pay for it too. You think that a Honda regional rep is in cohoots
with a local dealer to scam customers. This is highly unlikely.
I can tell you from experience that when a customer like you goes into a new
place still fuming and ranting about what crooks the last place was, they
will agree with you in a professional and noncommital way. Why? To get
your business in the future!
I think you let your anger get the best of you. Quit expecting to have your
butt kissed like its owed to you.
InnaComa
advance what you want them to do. If you want some type of reimbursement,
figure that out in advance. If you're just informing them of what you
experienced, that's fine too. Next I would get the name of the President of
Honda. This is important. Get the absolute HIGHEST authority in the Honda
corporation, and get his mailing address. May take some phone calls, but you
can get it. With a lot of persistence and a little sweet talking, I got the
Packard Bell CEO's personal fax number and began faxing him evey thirty minutes
for a problem they caused. Guess what? I got my results. Write to this CEO
and on the envelope write "Personal and Confidential". There's a good chance
he will be the one opening it.
My Mom was refunded over $900 and called by the assistant to the CEO of
Oldsmobile with the news of her refund in a similar situation.
Godd luck. But know what you're fighting for.
l
Dave Antonacci wrote:
> Have you considered the possibility that you got scammed from the second
> service center and not the first?
>
> I dont mean any disrespect, but you come across in your post as a person who
> feels entitled to whatever you want. You want your car fixed and for the
> dealer to pay for it too. You think that a Honda regional rep is in cohoots
> with a local dealer to scam customers. This is highly unlikely.
>
> I can tell you from experience that when a customer like you goes into a new
> place still fuming and ranting about what crooks the last place was, they
> will agree with you in a professional and noncommital way. Why? To get
> your business in the future!
>
> I think you let your anger get the best of you. Quit expecting to have your
> butt kissed like its owed to you.
>
I was indeed wary of the second opinion. The fact is, Dave, that after a week,
my a/c system has fully retained
it's charge, and the service technician put a dye in the freon so that IF it
loses it's charge he can locate it and give
me a straight answer on what the problem is. The condenser has been ruled out
as a culprit, and this is what the
first dealership tried to charge me with. At the worst, they tried to rip me
off. At the least, they were so
incompetent that they guessed **at my expense** and certainly did not go through
the diagnostic (dye)
procedures (that the second center did) to really understand just why a major
rebuild lasted only 22 months.
Dave, I know it's hard to get an idea of one's personality over the internet,
but I do not "rant and rave". My
mouth was far from foaming when I went to get the 2nd opinion - in fact, things
were cordial and
matter-of-fact. Anger was simply not a part of it - but I stubbornly held my
ground with the first shop on what I
felt was the right thing to do. When I went to the 2nd shop, I presented my
concerns, and was completely
honest with them about what transpired and what my feelings were. That they are
honest with me is certainly
not a given - but I have established that the first dealership was not.
And, Dave, I **am** "owed" something - respect. That means not being lied to,
not being taken advantage of,
and getting competent work for the $65/hour that I am paying. I do not expect
to have my butt kissed, I only
expect that it not be kicked. I ask for nothing more, and I expect nothing
less.
As I recall, that **used** to be the kind of customer Honda catered to.