Why do Asian kids like Honda Civics?
Chris Layne
On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
Greaatttttt... Here starts a 500 message thread.
>I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
>this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>
>"There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -----Ernest Hemigway
HChar83183
George Pugliese
In article <32e208e6...@nntp.news.netcom.net>, core...@nervosa.sf.ca.us says...
>
>On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
>
>Greaatttttt... Here starts a 500 message thread.
>
and you started it.
I know I am not helping, but just couldn't resist.
Cheers.
allan chen
On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
i have no idea how to respond to this....i think it's a case of people
recognizing high quality manufacturing and a solid product. i don't
think it has anything to do with them being asian...except a name that
they may have heard, possibly, more often as that of a good company.
people buy cars from honda (or any other brand) because they believe
that they make good cars. not just because it's a japanese brand.
i'm looking for a car right now, i'm chinese, and i'm 18 years old.
yes, i'm looking at a honda civic. but i'm also looking at a chevy
cavalier (which my mother has owned) as well as a saturn sl2 (which my
sister, 20, presently owns).
Yuan Wu
In article <19970114222...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
> I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>
> "There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted
armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards."
-----Ernest Hemigway
So what else do we buy then? A Neon? A Cavaliar? Or a Saturn?
Geeezzz
Yuan Wu
jz...@pop.azstarnet.com
96 Civic DX hatchback
SIRRI YIRCALI
>
> >I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> >this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>
> Same reason most rednecks like pickup trucks?
>
> Actually most of the asian friends I've had prefer old american cars
> with big V8's... I asked one guy why once and he said, "Because we
> can't buy anything with an engine over 1 liter back home!"
>
>
That's a stupid thing to say since Japan has very powerful cars, many not
available here or in europe...
SIRRI
Mogsie2
Okay, this is like the most racist question. Lots of people like Honda
Civics- all the Asians at my school drive BMW's and Mercedes. I guess
your answer is that they are cute cars and lots of people like them, not
just Asian kids. Okay?
Jane Parks.... mog...@aol.com... American University- SIS major, Morrissey, The Smiths, REM, Politics, my cat, and Winnie the Pooh (and Eeyore!). MATRICULATION MAKES YOU GO BLIND!
AMERICAN UNIVERSITY
LET'S GO EAGLES!
Chris Layne
On 15 Jan 1997 20:35:36 GMT, mog...@aol.com (Mogsie2) wrote:
Once again, the people at *your* school are rich, we know that already.
t-bone
HChar83183 wrote:
>
> I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>
well ...i think it is just because Honda's/ Acura's are the hot cars to
fix up and customize right now. they are also reasonably priced and
have GREAT maintenance reputations. i am a white boy that rolls a 90
Honda Civie h/b Si ...and i like the Honda's because the body lines look
GOOD to me and the aftermarket products are out there to produce a
bad-ass lookin/performing ride. I DO believe that Asian/Americans are
proud of there heritage and my Asian buddies are into using all the
latest HiPo products for there Japanese rides, Tokiko,Ibach, like i said
...i think it is just the Hot Tkt for youngsters to roll
Hondas/Acuras....my 2cents
t-bone
90' Red Civic h/b Si
90' Chevy 1-ton Dually (lowered)
69' Chev Elcamino SS 396
92' Honda CBR 900
*** Boyz gotta have their Toyz !! ***
Michael Louie
HChar83183 (hchar...@aol.com) wrote:
: I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
: this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
Good question!, another good question might be why most aol'ers are such IDIOTS.
: "There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -----Ernest Hemigway
Young Song
To answer the question, I am an "Asian" (not a kid anymore at my mid 20s...)
but I drove a 85 Chevy Caprice Station wagon (small block V8 blah blah blah)
from the age of 15 to 26. Now, I have acquired a Honda Civic because ... hey,
gas prices ain't going down!
Civics are good cars. Big deal. I'd like to drive it a while, save money,
then sell it at a good price and move on to the next level. My Civic is a
good transition car. It's not a reflection of "who I am" - it's just a damn
piece of metal with four wheels that I need to use to get to places I need to
get to.
Kenneth Phan
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, allan chen wrote:
> On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
>
> >I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> >this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
> >
> >"There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -----Ernest Hemigway
>
> i have no idea how to respond to this....i think it's a case of people
> recognizing high quality manufacturing and a solid product. i don't
> think it has anything to do with them being asian...except a name that
> they may have heard, possibly, more often as that of a good company.
> people buy cars from honda (or any other brand) because they believe
> that they make good cars. not just because it's a japanese brand.
> i'm looking for a car right now, i'm chinese, and i'm 18 years old.
> yes, i'm looking at a honda civic. but i'm also looking at a chevy
> cavalier (which my mother has owned) as well as a saturn sl2 (which my
> sister, 20, presently owns).
>
>
Why do European kids like Chevy Cavaliers?:
Jose Carlos Soares Oliveira
In <5bkf6s$n...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com> ANDREW LEDOUX <ale...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>In article <5bk8e5$f...@interport.net>,
> loo...@interport.net (Michael Louie) wrote:
>>HChar83183 (hchar...@aol.com) wrote:
>>: I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
>>: this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Good question!, another good question might be why most aol'ers are such
>IDIOTS.
>>
>>
>>
>>: "There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted
>armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -
>---Ernest Hemigway
> Hey no problem with civic owners...good car...4 door is a good small family
>car....the two door is good cheap transportation.
>What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands of
>dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
>there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
>right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster stock...how
>pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
>underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
GSR underpowered??????? what the hell does this guy mean????
hmmm let us see gsr-1.8L 4cyl w/170hp almost 100hp/litre. I really don't
see how you can call the GSR underpowered! Obviously you've never ridden
in a tricked out car, or autocrossed, then you would see some os these
wonderful little cars really shine! Honda Civics and Integras can be
made to handle like there's no tomorrow with a few simple suspension
mods. Like somebody said, the lines are good, once lowered all Civics
look great to me (even better than the Integra IMO) and you can't go
wrong with the aftermarket available for these cars.
later
Joe Oliveira
Bhaskar Cholasam
Civics are good cars and for the price one pays they are good value. It
looks good, pretty reliable, good resale value and ok to drive.
On Thu, 16 Jan 1997, ANDREW LEDOUX wrote:
> Hey no problem with civic owners...good car...4 door is a good small
family
> car....the two door is good cheap transportation.
>
> What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands
of
> dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
> there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
Whatz wrong if somebody wants to modify their car, and BTW civics aren't
the only ones that you see Modified on the roads.
> right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster
stock...how
Not all Neons have 150 HP engines.
> pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
> underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
Integra is by no means an underpowered car. I don't think you have even
driven a GS-R before to say it is underpowered. It puts out 170 HP out of a
1.8lr engine. Its lot more technology and refinement than a Neon or for that
matter a Mustang. And people who DO buy sports cars drive hard. How many
Katanas or CBR650s have you seen cruising around at 2000RPM. If somebody
wanted to cruise along they would be better off buying - that behemoth of a
car - Chevy Caprice station wagon.
Drive a GS-R and then You would see why you would want to drive at 7500.
BTW if you are doing 7500 RPM you are doing 65MPH in 2nd gear. I
personally don't have to rev my GS-R more than 2000RPM in the city for
normal driving.
-Bhaskar
VJkidNplay
I think T-bone's response just about sums it up...Hondas are just "hot"
cars right now as they are neither to plain nor too excessive and offer a
great mix of features and look.. And with Civic's being the most
affordable of the Honda range, it's no wonder they appeal to a younger
crowd. After all, who doesn't want to be seen driving a "cool" car.
Yet, I don't doubt that there is a degree of peer influence involved here
too and perhaps in Asian kid circles, a Civic is "cool" or even
fashionable. Nothing wrong with that. Just like a Jeep Grand Cherokee or
Ford Explorer are "cool" to lots of caucasian, upper-middle class,
suburban housewives/females.
As Andre Aggassi put it: "Image IS everything!"
Marc
Mogsie2
Why do European kids like Chevy Cavaliers?:
Why do rednecks like pickup trucks? Why do Italians like Camaros? What
does IROC stand for? Italian Retard Out Cruisin'! Why is everyone in
this thread a moron???
Chris Layne
Chris Layne
On 16 Jan 97 17:35:08 GMT, umol...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Jose Carlos Soares
Oliveira) wrote:
>mods. Like somebody said, the lines are good, once lowered all Civics
>look great to me (even better than the Integra IMO) and you can't go
>wrong with the aftermarket available for these cars.
1992 - '95 (5th gen.) Civics of course.
>
>later
>Joe Oliveira
>
Chris Layne
On 16 Jan 1997 17:07:07 GMT, mog...@aol.com (Mogsie2) wrote:
You just included yourself in the thread fellow moron.
t-bone
ANDREW LEDOUX wrote:
>
> In article <5bk8e5$f...@interport.net>,
> loo...@interport.net (Michael Louie) wrote:
>
> >HChar83183 (hchar...@aol.com) wrote:
> >: I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> >: this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Good question!, another good question might be why most aol'ers are such
> IDIOTS.
> >
> >
> >
> >: "There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted
> armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -
> ---Ernest Hemigway
>
> car....the two door is good cheap transportation.
>
> What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands of
> dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
> there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
> underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
well ANDY...some of us "BOY RACER TYPES" might just enjoy "Being ALL WE
can be" as well as have our lil Hoopties BE ALL THEY can be!! i LOVE TO
DRIVE period, and why not drive a car that
handles,performs,sounds,looks as GOOD as the person who owns it can
imagine it to be..???? YOU may spend your $$$ on other things such
Holiday Barbies, or Dungeons-n-Dragons, Tickle Me Elmo....too each
his/her own, as long as YOU are HAPPY ...we are HAPPY for YOU!!
Myer R. Bremer
In article <syhome-1501...@cnc079042.concentric.net>,
SIRRI YIRCALI <syh...@concentric.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> >I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
>> >this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>>
>>
>> Actually most of the asian friends I've had prefer old american cars
>> with big V8's... I asked one guy why once and he said, "Because we
>> can't buy anything with an engine over 1 liter back home!"
>>
>>
>That's a stupid thing to say since Japan has very powerful cars, many not
>available here or in europe...
>
>SIRRI
since when is japan all of asia? i'm asian, from vietnam actually,
and we sure as hell don't drive powerful cars over there. mostly
motor scooters and the like (if that). i bought a honda civic
because it was affordable, had a good reputation (marketing ploy?),
and looked much better than comparable priced cars in my opinion.
nothing to do with heritage, culture, etc. i just wanted the best
car for my money.
Networking Director
ANDREW LEDOUX wrote:
>
> In article <5bk8e5$f...@interport.net>,
> loo...@interport.net (Michael Louie) wrote:
>
> >: I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> >: this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> IDIOTS.
> >
> >
> >
> >: "There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted
> armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -
> ---Ernest Hemigway
>
> Hey no problem with civic owners...good car...4 door is a good small family
> car....the two door is good cheap transportation.
>
> What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands of
> dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
> there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
> right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster stock...how
> pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
> underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
Hey Andy, guess what, I can't stand fucks like you, even if sound
doesn't always mean more hp who gives a fuck, so why don't you take your
pathetic neon and sorry middle-aged ass to alt.30+beatoff and leave
people who take pride in owning and customizing their civic's alone!
Disgruntled Reader
ANDREW LEDOUX
Chris Layne
On Thu, 16 Jan 97 07:18:27 GMT, ys...@slip.net (Young Song) wrote:
See, for me it's different. It is not a reflection of who I am as it isn't with
you, that I agree with. But I'm not scared to say I have a personal
relationship with my car :-)
Adam Frix
In article <19970116170...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, mog...@aol.com
(Mogsie2) wrote:
> Why do European kids like Chevy Cavaliers?:
>
> Why do rednecks like pickup trucks? Why do Italians like Camaros? What
> does IROC stand for? Italian Retard Out Cruisin'! Why is everyone in
> this thread a moron???
>
>
>
>
> Jane Parks.... mog...@aol.com... American University- SIS major,
Morrissey, The Smiths, REM, Politics, my cat, and Winnie the Pooh (and
Eeyore!). MATRICULATION MAKES YOU GO BLIND!
> AMERICAN UNIVERSITY
I've been wondering: what's with this matriculation .sig? Do you have no
intention of graduating? You're sure sounding like you enjoy being a
perpetual (or perpetually ignorant) college student....
Nlee97
I am an Asian male. I think Civics are nice cars. My parents like
Japanesse automobiles because they are more reliable and have a higher
resale value. Lots of my other friends who are not Asian drive Civics for
the same reasons. Its just that Asian people, keep up with the latest
reports and they also follow other Asians, so if one Asian buys a Civic,
their Asian friends will buy one too. For me my first car was a brand new
'95 Honda Accord EXL. I enjoy the ride and the handling of the car.
Courtney
>i have no idea how to respond to this....i think it's a case of people
>recognizing high quality manufacturing and a solid product. i don't
>think it has anything to do with them being asian...except a name that
>they may have heard, possibly, more often as that of a good company.
>people buy cars from honda (or any other brand) because they believe
>that they make good cars. not just because it's a japanese brand.
>i'm looking for a car right now, i'm chinese, and i'm 18 years old.
>yes, i'm looking at a honda civic. but i'm also looking at a chevy
>cavalier (which my mother has owned) as well as a saturn sl2 (which my
>sister, 20, presently owns).
Well, when quality is about the same, (saturn and the civic) and the
Saturn is cheaper, I would go for the Saturn. In fact, I usually go
American if I can, assuming it is manufacured here. I like to help
keep the manufacturing jobs in the U.S. as long as they keep the
quality, not blind support.
Courtney Smith
james...@stc.net
jcs...@bernie.ngc.peachnet.edu
poo...@hotmail.com
Gerald Yen-Wei Chen
RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
: LOL. What is a SIS major? I'm Chinese and I do not drive a CIVIC. I'm
SIS is Spatial Information Systems I believe.
Young Song
In article <19970117063...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, rl...@aol.com (RL56) wrote:
=LOL. What is a SIS major? I'm Chinese and I do not drive a CIVIC. I'm
=also not 19 or anywhere near that young. I have to admit I did have a 79
=CIVIC for work use. I owned a modified 76 Kawasaki 500, a Honda CR175, a
=Honda CB 350, a modified 77 Celica Liftback, a 83 Olds Cutlass (worse car
=ever), 91 CRX DX, 97 Eclipse Spyder GS-T and 3 bicycles costing over
=$7,000.
=
=Most asians in my neighborhood primary drives Integras, BMWs, Mercedes,
=Lexus, and Civics. Most non-asians drives BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus, and
=every other model of cars that has ever been made. You draw your own
=conclusions. Not a high asian to non-asian ratio here.
=
=I will never own a Civic, a BMW, or an Integra because they are
=everywhere. Unless you know exactly where you are parked, you may try to
=get into someone else's car. Ok, so I'm exagerating.
you owned a CRX. Those are Civics.
allan chen
>
>
>On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, allan chen wrote:
>
>> On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
>>
>> >I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
>> >this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>> >
>> >"There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -----Ernest Hemigway
>>
>> i have no idea how to respond to this....i think it's a case of people
>> recognizing high quality manufacturing and a solid product. i don't
>> think it has anything to do with them being asian...except a name that
>> they may have heard, possibly, more often as that of a good company.
>> people buy cars from honda (or any other brand) because they believe
>> that they make good cars. not just because it's a japanese brand.
>> i'm looking for a car right now, i'm chinese, and i'm 18 years old.
>> yes, i'm looking at a honda civic. but i'm also looking at a chevy
>> cavalier (which my mother has owned) as well as a saturn sl2 (which my
>> sister, 20, presently owns).
>>
>>
>
>Why do European kids like Chevy Cavaliers?:
>
huh? is this a response, or just too lazy to delete the preceding
message? just wondering.
allan chen
On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
>I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
>this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>
>"There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -----Ernest Hemigway
actually, there is an interesting point i'd like to make. i've had
scores of people recommend the civic to me. the strongest proponents
of this make are my white, jewish roommate, an african-american
housemate downstairs, along with several others. strangely, _none_ of
them have been asian. in fact, the one definite negative response
i've had has been from one of my asian friends.
just my two cents (after my initial quarter...)
RL56
LOL. What is a SIS major? I'm Chinese and I do not drive a CIVIC. I'm
Most asians in my neighborhood primary drives Integras, BMWs, Mercedes,
Lexus, and Civics. Most non-asians drives BMWs, Mercedes, Lexus, and
every other model of cars that has ever been made. You draw your own
conclusions. Not a high asian to non-asian ratio here.
I will never own a Civic, a BMW, or an Integra because they are
everywhere. Unless you know exactly where you are parked, you may try to
RL56
Hey Adam, don't you know all asians love to spend years and years in
college so they can go make someone else rich. They have forgotten why
their ancesters came to the land of opportunity. I know my father did not
come here to work for someone else.
Bentley
SIRRI YIRCALI (syh...@concentric.net) said something like:
: > Actually most of the asian friends I've had prefer old american cars
: > with big V8's... I asked one guy why once and he said, "Because we
: > can't buy anything with an engine over 1 liter back home!"
: >
: That's a stupid thing to say since Japan has very powerful cars, many not
: available here or in europe...
Not stupid at all. Over 50% of Japanese cars sold last year had engines
displacing less than one litre. I've lost the reference, but something
like 85% of all cars were less than 2 litres -- a pushrod 350cid V-8 is
rare. Sure, there are some extremely fast Japanese cars, but they
represent the minority.
PS European engines are usually much smaller than American ones as well.
Something about gas being 3-4 times as expensive, would be my guess..
--
> B E N T L E Y < ben...@access.digex.net
Dave Beal
ANDREW LEDOUX wrote:
> What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands of
> dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
> there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
> right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster stock...how
> pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
> underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
Yeah. Right. I just got finished driving a rented Neon.
Slowest 132 hp car I've ever seen. And that 3 speed automatic
is pretty awesome, too.
If you don't appreciate Honda engineering, name a few other cars
that get 195 hp out of 2.2 liters without turbocharging,
like the '97 Prelude does.
- Dave Beal
Gerald Yen-Wei Chen
Dave Beal (d...@mcdata.com) wrote:
: ANDREW LEDOUX wrote:
: > What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands of
: > dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
: > there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
: > right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster stock...how
: > pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
: > underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
: Yeah. Right. I just got finished driving a rented Neon.
: Slowest 132 hp car I've ever seen. And that 3 speed automatic
: is pretty awesome, too.
Neon's are pretty quick, but you really need to get a 5 speed to get
maximum performance
Adam Frix
In article <32e5a993...@nntp.stc.net>, james...@stc.net (Courtney)
wrote:
> Well, when quality is about the same, (saturn and the civic) and the
> Saturn is cheaper, I would go for the Saturn. In fact, I usually go
> American if I can, assuming it is manufacured here. I like to help
> keep the manufacturing jobs in the U.S. as long as they keep the
> quality, not blind support.
Then you should *definitely* put the Accord and Civic on your short list,
and keep those Americans living in Marysville, OH gainfully employed
building Hondas right here in the U.S.
Aloha,
--Adam--
t-bone
Networking Director wrote:
>
> ANDREW LEDOUX wrote:
> >
> > In article <5bk8e5$f...@interport.net>,
> > loo...@interport.net (Michael Louie) wrote:
> >
> > >: I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> > >: this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > IDIOTS.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >: "There is no hunting like the hunting of men. And those who have hunted
> > armed men long enough and liked it, care for nothing else afterwards." -
> > ---Ernest Hemigway
> >
> > Hey no problem with civic owners...good car...4 door is a good small family
> > car....the two door is good cheap transportation.
> >
> > dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
> > there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
> > right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster stock...how
> > pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
> > underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
>
> doesn't always mean more hp who gives a fuck, so why don't you take your
> pathetic neon and sorry middle-aged ass to alt.30+beatoff and leave
> people who take pride in owning and customizing their civic's alone!
>
> Disgruntled Reader
Ken Woods
>> What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands of
>> dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
>> there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
>> right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster stock...how
>> pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
>> underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
First off, look at my .sig.
While I do agree with you, about the "idiot racer boys" and the stupid
shit they do, some of us DO actually have quick Hondas. Mine is by no means
the fastest inthe country, but it holds it's own with the cars around here.
Any yeah, the Camaro is faster. So what??? I can't drive it on the street, so
what does it matter???
Last week signature files used 0.162% of the bandwidth on the net
Ken Woods kwo...@kens.com www.kens.com/pub/kwoods
Metro Motorworks on the web--->http://www.kens.com/pub/kwoods/mmw
1989 Chevy Camaro 7.89 @ 180+ mid 5's 1.66 .503
1990 Turbo Honda CRXsi 13.70 @ 104.3 8.81 @ 85 2.17 .500
1988 Honda CRXsi 15.87 @ 85.62 10.19 @ 70 2.38 .542
RL56
Wrong answer Young Song. My CRX is nothing like any Civic. It neither
looks like one nor does it drives like one. The registration when new was
about 50% higher than the Civic even though it only cost 30% more. My
insurance was even higher overall.
AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! What in the BLEEP is a Spatial Information System
major?????????
Ryan Rahim
RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
: Wrong answer Young Song. My CRX is nothing like any Civic.
Then how come it says It's known as Honda Civic CRX?
It neither
: looks like one nor does it drives like one.
It's front end certainly does look like one, with its rump butchered.
And it pretty much drives like one too.
The registration when new was
: about 50% higher than the Civic even though it only cost 30% more.
That doesn't mean it isn't a Civic.
My
: insurance was even higher overall.
Boo hoo.
: AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! What in the BLEEP is a Spatial Information System
: major?????????
Who cares.
Ryan
James Shum
Kenneth Phan wrote:
>
> > On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
> >
> > >I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
> > >this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>
Hey, now! Let's not put down Europeans for buying a soulless, big
underpowered engined, underhandled, loud tin can! :-)
____________________________________________________________
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CHASE LIN
P People like you really piss me off. This is a Honda group, if you do
n not like Honda cars, get the fuck out of here with your racist shit.
People have the right to do whatever they want to their car, it is
their pride. By the way, maybe you just do not have the fuguts and
skill to drive an integra to 7500rpm. Get out of here and learn how
t
to appreciate Honda engineering.
Bentley
Dave Beal (d...@mcdata.com) said something like:
: Yeah. Right. I just got finished driving a rented Neon.
: Slowest 132 hp car I've ever seen. And that 3 speed automatic
: is pretty awesome, too.
You have to keep in mind that the rental fleet buyers almost always chose
a bland version of the vehicle. I've rented Neons too, and while they
struck me as cheap and flimsy, their performance certainly seemed more
sporting than the other offerings in that rental class -- Protege's and
Corollas for the most part, with a few (ack) Cavaliers. A well-equipped
Neon Sport with the DOHC engine and some other goodies has a different
personality than the low end ones, IMHO. Try it, you might just like it.
But yeah, the three-speed is a loser -- according to the CR road test, it
more than sapped any of the extra power the Neon offers over the
competition, making it pig slow -- and the car screams like a lost soul at
highway speeds. Then again, Chrysler's goal was to keep costs down, and
the PL project had an amazingly low R&D budget. Everything's relative, and
apparently there is no shortage of people out there dumb enough to buy
SOHC automatic Neons, so who am I to fault Chrysler?
Young Song
In article <19970118042...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, rl...@aol.com (RL56) wrote:
=Wrong answer Young Song. My CRX is nothing like any Civic. It neither
=looks like one nor does it drives like one. The registration when new was
=about 50% higher than the Civic even though it only cost 30% more. My
=insurance was even higher overall.
=
=AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! What in the BLEEP is a Spatial Information System
=major?????????
Um... Let me look at the info on CRX models...
the formal product name of the CRX is: "Honda Civic CRX"...
the CRX is a Civic just as the Del Sol is a Civic.
Your CRX is a Civic. It's verifiable and confirmed fact... can't really argue
any more with that.
Mike Owyang
Well, I don't think it was some strange genetic predisposition that guided
my decision to buy a Civic coupe back in '93. What can I say, I liked the
design (plus, owning two Hondas previously was a consideration).
No, it's not lowered, covered with goofy stick-on graphics, nor does it
sport a six inch diameter exhaust tip. Then again, I'm not a kid...
Mike
Matthew
my goal is not to cruise the streets in my civic and beat cameros and
corvettes in drag races, i like hondas, and i happen to enjoy making
my civic better and/or different from others on the road. As far as to
why asian kids like civics- most asian kids i know are pretty smart.
-slick
ANDREW LEDOUX
In article <32E210...@sprynet.com>,
Matthew <sli...@sprynet.com> wrote:
how in the world can any civic beat a corvette or a V-8 camaro in a drag
race.....short of swapping in an engine? All that crap that after market
dealers sell will only make your car marginally faster....face it they are
ripping you off!!!
UK
He said is goal was NOT to drag race those cars...I don't them he was saying
he could. BTW, there's a CRX that ran a 10.xx second at the 1/4 mile!
Chris
Young Song
In article <toth.22.45...@osu.edu>, tot...@osu.edu (UK) wrote:
=>
=>how in the world can any civic beat a corvette or a V-8 camaro in a drag
=>race.....short of swapping in an engine? All that crap that after market
=>dealers sell will only make your car marginally faster....face it they are
=>ripping you off!!!
=
=
= He said is goal was NOT to drag race those cars...I don't them he was
= saying
=he could. BTW, there's a CRX that ran a 10.xx second at the 1/4 mile!
=
=Chris
=
10.81 seconds for a 4-cylinder integra engine CRX hybrid with turbo and NOS.
Houston
On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 05:43:19 GMT, ANDREW LEDOUX
<ale...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>What I can't stand are those idiot boy racer types who waste thousands of
>dollars trying to make a civic fast....gee whiz see my sewer pipe back
>there...see how fast i sound....boy i think i've just added 25 hp, yeah
>right...know what i mean? Even the some Dodge neons is faster stock...how
>pathetic. Same with the Integra morons....even the GSR is basically an
>underpowered 4 cyl engine...who drives at 7500 RPM????
Even my stock Integra sedan will out perform and out last any stock
Neon... it comfortably hits over 142mph and can sit there all day.
And my mileage in city traffic ranges from 29 to 31 mpg. Try running
your Neon near redline for a little while and see how long it takes
before your rods start flying through the hood... doesn't happen on a
Honda.
Later,
Houston
(I don't like smiley faces on my computers or my cars!)
E. Ty Thomas
tyth...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~tythomas
Buzz
enthusiasts! Why don't you take your Hondas and move to Japan so you can
be with the ones you love and drive with the ones you love! Hell, you'd
probably take an integra over a 305hp Z28 and still claim you could
outperform it because it has the "H" on it. Engineer this...
Chris Beck
Adam Frix <7072...@compuserve.com> wrote in article
<70721.504-ya024080...@news.interserv.com>...
> > Jane Parks.... mog...@aol.com... American University- SIS major,
> Morrissey, The Smiths, REM, Politics, my cat, and Winnie the Pooh (and
> Eeyore!). MATRICULATION MAKES YOU GO BLIND!
> > AMERICAN UNIVERSITY
>
>
> I've been wondering: what's with this matriculation .sig? Do you have
no
> intention of graduating? You're sure sounding like you enjoy being a
> perpetual (or perpetually ignorant) college student....
Yeah... But she's a fan of the Smiths, so she can't be all bad!
-Chris
RL56
Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that? You have been studying too
hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
look like a Civic. You also must have had one too many brain farts
because a CRX does not drive like a Civic. Do you own a CRX or do you own
a Civic and wish you own a CRX.
Come to think the Prelude looks like a stretced Civic. It drives like a
Civic. It costs three times as much but doesn't sell anywhere as well as
a Civic. "Boo Hoo."
I bet you drive a Civic and own a wannaBMW.
Young Song
In article <19970120044...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, rl...@aol.com (RL56) wrote:
=Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that? You have been studying too
=hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
=look like a Civic. You also must have had one too many brain farts
=because a CRX does not drive like a Civic. Do you own a CRX or do you own
=a Civic and wish you own a CRX.
Look moron, Honda calls the CRX a "CIVIC". The CRX falls under the product
classification of Civics. I can't fucking do anything about it if the CRX
looks different, smells different, or feels different from a fucking regular
Civic. The fact remains that Del Sols and CRXs are formally designated as
"Civics" by the manufacturer. Fucking call their headquarters and ask'em.
=
=Come to think the Prelude looks like a stretced Civic. It drives like a
=Civic. It costs three times as much but doesn't sell anywhere as well as
=a Civic. "Boo Hoo."
=
=I bet you drive a Civic and own a wannaBMW.
I drive a Civic and also own a big Chevy guzzler. wanna make sumthing of it?
Ken Woods
ANDREW LEDOUX <ale...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>In article <32E210...@sprynet.com>,
> Matthew <sli...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>>my goal is not to cruise the streets in my civic and beat cameros and
>>corvettes in drag races, i like hondas, and i happen to enjoy making
>>my civic better and/or different from others on the road. As far as to
>>why asian kids like civics- most asian kids i know are pretty smart.
>how in the world can any civic beat a corvette or a V-8 camaro in a drag
>race.....short of swapping in an engine? All that crap that after market
>dealers sell will only make your car marginally faster....face it they are
>ripping you off!!!
See below.
It's called a turbocharger. While a 13.70 is pretty mild, there are ALOT of
hondas out there that are ALOT faster than mine. 12's are easy, and 11's
can still run on the street.
And no, my Camaro does NOT see any street duty.
Hoang Pham (Pure N.R.G.)
On 14 Jan 1997 22:23:19 GMT, hchar...@aol.com (HChar83183) wrote:
>I notice that most Honda Civic drivers are Asian kids. Why is this? Is
>this a requirement for Asians to buy Civics?
>
<grin>
As much as a lot of us would like to acknowledge this as a
sort of racist stereotype, it's quite true. :) There's nothing I
despise of more than a japanese car draped with stupid stickers,
ridiculous spoilers, excessive lighting effects (foglights and
sidemarkers), etc. But the reason I bought my Civic was because it was
the best choice out of all new cars I was looking for after my Grand
National got stolen.
---
Hoang Pham - HP...@UCLA.EDU
http://www.primenet.com/~purenrg
(still under construction)
1997 Honda Civic HX
(also under construction)
Matthew
>
>
> how in the world can any civic beat a corvette or a V-8 camaro in a drag
> race.....short of swapping in an engine? All that crap that after market
> dealers sell will only make your car marginally faster....face it they are
> ripping you off!!!
As has been said, with a turbo, engine swap, and NOS I have seen
honda's capable of 11 second runs. As far as marginal gains - I rode
in a friend's civic who has exaust, air filter and headers and he
pushed me into his seat downshifting into 3rd at 55 mph, I tried it
in mine (we both have the same 1.5 16 valve) and didn't get anywhere
near the effect. The mod's he has (contrary to what the advertisements
say) give a little under 20 hp in the 5000+ rpm range, right about where
civic engines need it. As far as price 85 for a k&n cone setup, this
week i'm spending 160 for a flowmaster with new thicker piping from the
cat to the muffler (much cheaper than cat-back systems) and hopefully
buying my friends headers when he sells his car soon - not a bad deal if
you ask me.
-slick
Donald DiPaula
In article <32E313...@bestnet.com>, Buzz <the...@bestnet.com> wrote:
!>
!What is it with you people? You're not auto-enthusiasts, you are Honda
!enthusiasts!
what, hondas aren't automobiles?
Why don't you take your Hondas and move to Japan so you can
!be with the ones you love and drive with the ones you love!
we can be with the ones we love (people) and drive the ones we love (hondas)
right here in the good old u.s. of a. why should we go elsewhere for what
we have plenty of right here?
Hell, you'd
!probably take an integra over a 305hp Z28
yep, any day (at least, a gs-r). or a new prelude!
and still claim you could
!outperform it because it has the "H" on it. Engineer this...
not necessarily "out-perform", but certainly i'd enjoy it more.
-D-
--
By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meet the
definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to
send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment, punishable by action to
recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation.
Ryan Rahim
RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
I suppose you're talking to me?
: Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that?
From Honda's own nomenclature. Common knowledge, but I suppose you've
been inhaling too much exhaust fumes from your CRX/Civic prone
decomposing exhausts.
You have been studying too
: hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
: look like a Civic.
Oh, yes it does look like a Civic of the same era.
You also must have had one too many brain farts
: because a CRX does not drive like a Civic. Do you own a CRX or do you own
: a Civic and wish you own a CRX.
Wish away the CRX's Civic roots all you want, but it certainly shares
alot with Civics esp. the econo-feel that Integras seem to be able to
get away from. And please, I own neither a Civic nor a CRX.
: Come to think the Prelude looks like a stretced Civic.
No, it does not. Not even the same platform.
It drives like a
: Civic. It costs three times as much but doesn't sell anywhere as well as
: a Civic. "Boo Hoo."
: I bet you drive a Civic and own a wannaBMW.
Boy, I certainly wish you were a little more eloquent. Actually, I own a
Passat.
Ryan
allan chen
On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:42:39 -0800, Buzz <the...@bestnet.com> wrote:
>CHASE LIN wrote:
>>
>> P People like you really piss me off. This is a Honda group, if you do
>> n not like Honda cars, get the fuck out of here with your racist shit.
>> People have the right to do whatever they want to their car, it is
>> their pride. By the way, maybe you just do not have the fuguts and
>> skill to drive an integra to 7500rpm. Get out of here and learn how
>> t
>> to appreciate Honda engineering.
>>
>What is it with you people? You're not auto-enthusiasts, you are Honda
>enthusiasts! Why don't you take your Hondas and move to Japan so you can
>be with the ones you love and drive with the ones you love! Hell, you'd
>probably take an integra over a 305hp Z28 and still claim you could
>outperform it because it has the "H" on it. Engineer this...
why don't i move back to japan? well, there are a couiple of reasons.
first, though i am asian, i'm chinese, so that wouldn't work out too
well...you see, not all owners of civics are japanese...nor are they
even asian, as this thread has illustrated. i
Velocity
> >
> >
> > how in the world can any civic beat a corvette or a V-8 camaro in a drag
> > race.....short of swapping in an engine? All that crap that after market
> > dealers sell will only make your car marginally faster....face it they are
> > ripping you off!!!
>
>
> As has been said, with a turbo, engine swap, and NOS I have seen
> honda's capable of 11 second runs. As far as marginal gains - I rode
> in a friend's civic who has exaust, air filter and headers and he
You mean "header"? 4 bangers use what we call a header. V-type engines
use headers.
> pushed me into his seat downshifting into 3rd at 55 mph, I tried it
You mean "upshifting"? Any car will jerk you around with a rapid downshift.
> in mine (we both have the same 1.5 16 valve) and didn't get anywhere
> near the effect. The mod's he has (contrary to what the advertisements
> say) give a little under 20 hp in the 5000+ rpm range, right about where
> civic engines need it. As far as price 85 for a k&n cone setup, this
> week i'm spending 160 for a flowmaster with new thicker piping from the
> cat to the muffler (much cheaper than cat-back systems) and hopefully
> buying my friends headers when he sells his car soon - not a bad deal if
> you ask me.
> -slick
An exhaust alone will do just about nothing without a header. A header
will give some noticable oomph. A cone filter will do just about nothing.
-- Velocity -- *(rsc...@cts.com)*
My Project:
'84 Accord <1829cc>
K&N--Weber--Dynomax--Suspension Techniques--American Eagle
Blaupunkt--Rockford Fosgate--Coustic Power Logic--JBL
450 watts combined continuous RMS
t-bone
Buzz wrote:
>
> CHASE LIN wrote:
> >
> > P People like you really piss me off. This is a Honda group, if you do
> > n not like Honda cars, get the fuck out of here with your racist shit.
> > People have the right to do whatever they want to their car, it is
> > their pride. By the way, maybe you just do not have the fuguts and
> > skill to drive an integra to 7500rpm. Get out of here and learn how
> > t
> > to appreciate Honda engineering.
> >
> What is it with you people? You're not auto-enthusiasts, you are Honda
> enthusiasts! Why don't you take your Hondas and move to Japan so you can
> be with the ones you love and drive with the ones you love! Hell, you'd
> probably take an integra over a 305hp Z28 and still claim you could
> outperform it because it has the "H" on it. Engineer this...
you freaking DORK!
Shawn P. Church
Donald DiPaula wrote:
>
> In article <32E313...@bestnet.com>, Buzz <the...@bestnet.com> wrote:
> !>
> !What is it with you people? You're not auto-enthusiasts, you are Honda
> !enthusiasts!
>
> what, hondas aren't automobiles?
>
>
> we can be with the ones we love (people) and drive the ones we love (hondas)
> right here in the good old u.s. of a. why should we go elsewhere for what
> we have plenty of right here?
Maybe if you guys quit responding to obvious flame-baiters like LeDoux
and Buzz, maybe they'd quit posting. As it is, they don't even need to
bait the hook to get you guys in a tizzy. At least make them put some
effort into creating something worthy of responding to.
Rgds,
Shawn
Tamade
Path:
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!news
From: ANDREW LEDOUX <ale...@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.honda
Subject: Re: Why do Asian kids like Honda Civics?
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:36:58 GMT
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In article <32E210...@sprynet.com>,
Matthew <sli...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>my goal is not to cruise the streets in my civic and beat cameros and
>corvettes in drag races, i like hondas, and i happen to enjoy making
>my civic better and/or different from others on the road. As far as to
>why asian kids like civics- most asian kids i know are pretty smart.
>
> -slick
>how in the world can any civic beat a corvette or a V-8 camaro in a drag
>race.....short of swapping in an engine? All that crap that after market
>dealers sell will only make your car marginally faster....face it they
are
>ripping you off!!!
hey man !! buy yourself a copy of Turbo or Sport Compact car magazine,
or even Option magazine from Japan. I sure you will know that is POSSIBLE.
Ken Woods
>In article <19970120044...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, rl...@aol.com (RL56) wrote:
>=Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that? You have been studying too
>=hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
ys...@slip.net (Young Song) writes:
>Look moron, Honda calls the CRX a "CIVIC". The CRX falls under the product
Damn, you guys WILL argue about anything.
Honda called the CRX the "CIVIC CRX" from 1983/4 to 1987. When the 2nd gen CRX's came
out Honda decided to drop the CIVIC from the official name, in order to get away from
the "economy" image, and draw more of the performance crowd.
Being the President of the CRX Owners group (www.crx.org), I think I know what I'm
talking about.
>=I bet you drive a Civic and own a wannaBMW.
>I drive a Civic and also own a big Chevy guzzler. wanna make sumthing of it?
Waahhhh...I own a mountain motor camaro. Wanna make something of that?????
Chris Layne
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:42:49 -0800, rsc...@cts.com (Velocity) wrote:
>In article <32E3AA...@sprynet.com>, Matthew <sli...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>You mean "header"? 4 bangers use what we call a header. V-type engines
>use headers.
This is just an argument of semantecs. It depends if you define the actual
exhaust pipe as a header, or the entire assembly of four as a header.
>
>> pushed me into his seat downshifting into 3rd at 55 mph, I tried it
>
>You mean "upshifting"? Any car will jerk you around with a rapid downshift.
Actually, do to inertia, upshifting will allow your body to continue to move
forward.
>An exhaust alone will do just about nothing without a header. A header
>will give some noticable oomph. A cone filter will do just about nothing.
Well, this applies along the entire assembly. One could say that a larger
exhaust/header system will provide a marginal performance improvement, but
switching over to a free-er flowing air intake will provide more airflow, and
hence, more power. Of course, swapping the intake while leaving the exhaust
alone will provide only a little improvement, whereas swapping the headers
without changing the other portions of the exhaust would be even more
counter-intuitive.
>-- Velocity -- *(rsc...@cts.com)*
Ryan Rahim
com> <32E3AA...@sprynet.com>
:Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution:
Matthew (sli...@sprynet.com) wrote:
: honda's capable of 11 second runs. As far as marginal gains - I rode
: in a friend's civic who has exaust, air filter and headers and he
: pushed me into his seat downshifting into 3rd at 55 mph, I tried it
: in mine (we both have the same 1.5 16 valve) and didn't get anywhere
: near the effect. The mod's he has (contrary to what the advertisements
: say) give a little under 20 hp in the 5000+ rpm range, right about where
: civic engines need it.
A little under 20 hp for exhaust, air filter and headers? Those must be
pretty small horses.
Ryan
Yin Alan W
RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
: Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that? You have been studying too
: hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
: look like a Civic. You also must have had one too many brain farts
: because a CRX does not drive like a Civic. Do you own a CRX or do you own
: a Civic and wish you own a CRX.
Under product classification from Honda, the Crx and Del sol are based
under Civic...Even their Civic sales figure includes the Del Sol and
before the CRX. so there, is your CRX a glorifed Civic or not???
Maybe its you who owns a CRX and wishes you weren't owning a CIVIC???
Too ashame to admit that you were stupid enough to pay the extra few
grand for essentially the same car, less two seats...(P.S. Thats for
the crx not the del sol, which is completely different story, great car
the del sol.) BTW- I own neither a Civic or CRX...I am just commenting
on your pathetic argument that CRX's are not Civics.
: Come to think the Prelude looks like a stretced Civic. It drives like a
: Civic. It costs three times as much but doesn't sell anywhere as well as
: a Civic. "Boo Hoo.":
: I bet you drive a Civic and own a wannaBMW.
But you drive a 2-seat CIVIC and thinks you own a Ferrari..
If you really want a true 2-seater and fun-mobile to drive get yourself
a Miata...
P.S. --Before anyone start flaming me, I am not saying the CRX is not a
good car. I am just trying to get through this moron that the CRX is
just a CIVIC...Maybe he is just too ashamed to admit it?? I don't know
why, the civics are fine cars. Or maybe he feels embarrassed when
someone pulls up in a Civic SI and able to outrun him in his CRX.
Velocity
In article <5c0cn1$2...@knot.queensu.ca>, 4a...@qlink.queensu.ca (Yin Alan
W) wrote:
> RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that? You have been studying too
> : hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
> : look like a Civic. You also must have had one too many brain farts
> : because a CRX does not drive like a Civic. Do you own a CRX or do you own
> : a Civic and wish you own a CRX.
Actually, I've always noticed girls driving CRX's and classified them as a
"girl" car. To small for me no matter how light it is. I'm not a
speed-racer. I've easily kept up with CRX's all the way up to 115 MPH
down the freeway..
> : Come to think the Prelude looks like a stretced Civic. It drives like a
> : Civic. It costs three times as much but doesn't sell anywhere as well as
> : a Civic. "Boo Hoo.":
> : I bet you drive a Civic and own a wannaBMW.
Costs about 1.4 times as much, and to make a Civic, or Civic "RX", keep up
with it would cost a lot more than the difference, BTW...
Aside from the point, I'd take a V8 ANYDAY over a 4-banger if I were
looking to performance. Why waste thousands and thousands of dollars
adding a few horsepower at a time when you get more from a stock V8.. and
you still do ALL the same mods to make it faster. I put a few bucks into
my Honda, and other than the carbs it is TOTALLY stock. There's a line to
be drawn here.. See if your totally cool whacked out sick ass nitrous
breathing flame throwing tire screeching Civic would keep up with my
Accord 13 years and 194,000 miles later w/no overhaul....... I'd like to
see if you even break 100,000 miles.
> But you drive a 2-seat CIVIC and thinks you own a Ferrari..
> If you really want a true 2-seater and fun-mobile to drive get yourself
> a Miata...
>
Right on, man.
> P.S. --Before anyone start flaming me, I am not saying the CRX is not a
> good car. I am just trying to get through this moron that the CRX is
> just a CIVIC...Maybe he is just too ashamed to admit it?? I don't know
> why, the civics are fine cars. Or maybe he feels embarrassed when
> someone pulls up in a Civic SI and able to outrun him in his CRX.
-- Velocity -- *(rsc...@cts.com)*
Velocity
In article <5c0ts1$5...@explorer2.clark.net>, kwo...@explorer2.clark.net
(Ken Woods) wrote:
> Damn, you guys WILL argue about anything.
> Honda called the CRX the "CIVIC CRX" from 1983/4 to 1987. When the 2nd
gen CRX's came ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> out Honda decided to drop the CIVIC from the official name, in order to
get away from
> the "economy" image, and draw more of the performance crowd.
> Being the President of the CRX Owners group (www.crx.org), I think I
know what I'm
> talking about.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are you sure? Is it the '83 or '84 model when the Civic CRX began? I
thought it was '84...
Nicolas Denux
On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Courtney wrote:
> Well, when quality is about the same, (saturn and the civic) and the
> Saturn is cheaper, I would go for the Saturn. In fact, I usually go
> American if I can, assuming it is manufacured here. I like to help
> keep the manufacturing jobs in the U.S. as long as they keep the
> quality, not blind support.
> Courtney Smith
Well, the Civics are all assembled in North America as far as I know,
some in Canada, and some in the U.S. Same with the Accords.(U.S.) So if
you want to support your domestic economy, buying North American
assembled autos should include you looking at some honda models and some
toyota models too. (and some mazda, like the Mx-6).
I bet there are VERY few cars/trucks/minivans on the road all
assembled in one country from parts ALL from that country. Even Japanese
auto makers might assemble things in Japan, but some parts come from
other corners of asia.
ah well.. I dont want to start a long thread, so I'll end it here
####################################################
Nicolas Denux - nde...@uvphys.phys.uvic.ca
nico...@uvaix.uvic.ca
Ryan Rahim
Houston (10210...@compuserve.com) wrote:
: On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 05:43:19 GMT, ANDREW LEDOUX
: Even my stock Integra sedan will out perform and out last any stock
: Neon... it comfortably hits over 142mph and can sit there all day.
I don't think it's fair to compare a GS-R to a Neon - different classes.
Although, if you don't have a GS-R, 142 mph isn't a realistic figure.
: your Neon near redline for a little while and see how long it takes
: before your rods start flying through the hood... doesn't happen on a
: Honda.
Not true at all, it has happened to a few Hondas. But yes, Integra motors
seem happier at high revvs than Neon motors.
Ryan
: Later,
: Houston
: (I don't like smiley faces on my computers or my cars!)
: E. Ty Thomas
: tyth...@ix.netcom.com
: http://www.netcom.com/~tythomas
--
Speeding never killed anyone. . .stopping did.
Velocity
In article <32e502c2....@nntp.news.netcom.net>,
core...@nervosa.sf.ca.us wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:42:49 -0800, rsc...@cts.com (Velocity) wrote:
>
> >In article <32E3AA...@sprynet.com>, Matthew <sli...@sprynet.com> wrote:
> >
> >You mean "header"? 4 bangers use what we call a header. V-type engines
> >use headers.
>
> This is just an argument of semantecs. It depends if you define the actual
> exhaust pipe as a header, or the entire assembly of four as a header.
>
The exhaust manifold, is referred to as a header -- the combination of
however many pipes are necesary to combine the exhaust gasses from a set
of in-line cylinders. V8's and V6's have two headers, while inline 4
engines have a header.
> >
> >> pushed me into his seat downshifting into 3rd at 55 mph, I tried it
> >
> >You mean "upshifting"? Any car will jerk you around with a rapid downshift.
>
> Actually, do to inertia, upshifting will allow your body to continue to move
> forward.
(as a note)
Downshifting will push you forward.. upshifting will only stop pushing you
into your seat until the next higher gear is engaged..
Remember, upshift = shift to a higher gear
downshift = drop to a lower gear
This concludes our physics lesson for today.
>
> >An exhaust alone will do just about nothing without a header. A header
> >will give some noticable oomph. A cone filter will do just about nothing.
>
> Well, this applies along the entire assembly. One could say that a larger
> exhaust/header system will provide a marginal performance improvement, but
> switching over to a free-er flowing air intake will provide more airflow, and
> hence, more power. Of course, swapping the intake while leaving the exhaust
> alone will provide only a little improvement, whereas swapping the headers
> without changing the other portions of the exhaust would be even more
> counter-intuitive.
Actually, swapping headers alone will give you a larger performance
increase than swapping both muffler and filter w/out headers. Tuning the
exhaust and porting/polishing the heads are the best way of getting more
horsepower w/out sacraficing engine life/gas milage. Cold air from a cone
filter setup will suck more gas without doing much, and possible lead to
pre-mature ring failure from tiny debris getting scooped up through a
neglected filter.
OK, I'm done. No more posting to this thread by me.... =)
>
> >-- Velocity -- *(rsc...@cts.com)*
Ryan Rahim
Ken Woods (kwo...@explorer2.clark.net) wrote:
: >In article <19970120044...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, rl...@aol.com (RL56) wrote:
: >=Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that? You have been studying too
: >=hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
: ys...@slip.net (Young Song) writes:
: >Look moron, Honda calls the CRX a "CIVIC". The CRX falls under the product
: Damn, you guys WILL argue about anything.
: Honda called the CRX the "CIVIC CRX" from 1983/4 to 1987. When the 2nd gen CRX's came
: out Honda decided to drop the CIVIC from the official name, in order to get away from
: the "economy" image, and draw more of the performance crowd.
: Being the President of the CRX Owners group (www.crx.org), I think I know what I'm
: talking about.
Actually, they may have dropped the Civic name from later Civics, but
that was still part of the name in later product brochures. For eg.
even in 1990, in Japan, the CRX with the 160 hp Del Sol engine was still
called the Civic CRX.
Ryan
RL56
Buzz, why did you enter this newsgroup? It's obvious you don't own a
Honda. Did you just want to create hate among others? No, I do not own
just Honda autos and I bet your'e married to your cousin and plays the
fiddle.
RL56
Looks like I offended a lot off people just by accidentally sending my
reply to everyone instead of just the moron who thought he was hot shit.
By the replies that I have received I would have to say I really didn't
make such a big mistake afterall. Not all, but some of you that I did not
intend to send my message to really are morons. If the shoe fits, wear
it. My apologies to the others.
To the one who suggested the Miata. There was about eight Miatas in the
apartment complex that I lived. Most of them was in poor condition. The
tops were deteriorated and the most of them did not have a rear window
anymore. The Miata has poor interior room, does not handle well, does not
have good acceleration, and it's over-priced. The only thing that I find
good about it is its looks and the good looking young women who drives
them.
I purchased my "Civic" CRX strictly for work because of its reputed
reliability and great gas mileage. Now that it has over 150K miles I came
on this newsgroup for maintenance references. Until now my experience has
been pleasant. It seems this newsgroup has turned into a place for
dueling egos. I have to admit I am also guilty of slamming others when I
was slammed. I think I'll find somewhere else for support.
RL56
Bestnet is probably located in some swamp and these people are suffering
from too much in-breeding.
Bentley
Velocity (rsc...@cts.com) said something like:
: Are you sure? Is it the '83 or '84 model when the Civic CRX began? I
: thought it was '84...
It was model year 1984.
I hope this will put an end to the bickering about what the CRX was: It
was a Civic, but it was only a Civic in the US. US import regulations are
fairly complex, and certifications for cars can be quite time-consuming. A
loophole is to use the same model designator, which is why the Nissan
Altima was, for years, technically the Nissan Stanza Altima, even though
the word "Stanza" didn't appear anywhere on the car except for a tiny
badge on the trunk.
1984 must mark the year Honda raised some eyebrows in the US. Their new
Civic lineup consisted of seven models, 3 two-door hatchbacks, a sedan, a
wagon, and two CRX's. There were three different wheelbases, and the the
four body styles didn't share a single body panel. As R&T said in their
Dec 1983 issue, "it's tantamount to Ford announcing a new Fairmont and
then mentioning that 'Oh yes, by the way, we're also introducing a new
Mustant, a new Thunderbird and a new Continental Mark VII, all sharing
portions of the same platform but otheriwse very individual automobiles."
--
> B E N T L E Y < ben...@access.digex.net
Shawn P. Church
> An exhaust alone will do just about nothing without a header. A header
> will give some noticable oomph. A cone filter will do just about nothing.
>
Personal experience on the dyno says otherwise. Headers alone will do
little without an exhaust system. One should always start at the ends
(intake and exhaust) and work back for maximum effect. An exhaust system
alone may pick from 5-10 hp at the wheels depending upon the car and
state of tune. I know that when I put headers on my GS-R, they gained
little at full throttle (part throttle was better), but when I added an
exhaust, I picked up a total of 12 lb-ft of torque in the midrange and 11
hp.
Adding an open element filter will add 4-6 hp on most Hondas and going to
a cold air system will add another 4-6 hp at the wheels (dyno proven).
Rgds,
Shawn
Shawn P. Church
Not at all. A good cold air induction system is worth 6-10 hp at the
wheels, a header and exhaust combo can add another 8-10 there as well and
a timing bump can be worth a couple more. Add 15%-20% for losses back to
the crank and it's within reach. GRM got an old 1.6 Integra motor to 121
hp at the wheels, a fair gain considering the motor was rated at 116 at
the crank when new, using similar mods.
Chris Layne
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:58:04 -0800, rsc...@cts.com (Velocity) wrote:
>> This is just an argument of semantecs. It depends if you define the actual
>> exhaust pipe as a header, or the entire assembly of four as a header.
>>
>
>The exhaust manifold, is referred to as a header -- the combination of
>however many pipes are necesary to combine the exhaust gasses from a set
>of in-line cylinders. V8's and V6's have two headers, while inline 4
>engines have a header.
I stand corrected.
>> >You mean "upshifting"? Any car will jerk you around with a rapid downshift.
>>
>> Actually, do to inertia, upshifting will allow your body to continue to move
>> forward.
>
>(as a note)
>
>Downshifting will push you forward.. upshifting will only stop pushing you
>into your seat until the next higher gear is engaged..
Sorry, I meant downshifting, I was temporarily smoking crack :-). As I'm sure
you know, it's that feeling when you downshift to early of your body lunging
forward.
>Remember, upshift = shift to a higher gear
> downshift = drop to a lower gear
>
>This concludes our physics lesson for today.
Yes, I know this, I made a typing mistake that was unfortunately crucial. Kill
me.
>-- Velocity -- *(rsc...@cts.com)*
Ryan Rahim
RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
: dueling egos. I have to admit I am also guilty of slamming others when I
: was slammed. I think I'll find somewhere else for support.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Ryan
Adam Meltzer [ENS/SMG]
Hoang Pham (Pure N.R.G.) (hp...@ucla.edu) wrote:
: ridiculous spoilers, excessive lighting effects (foglights and
The neon licence plate holders always got me ticked off.. talk about
distracting. :)
--
___ | SUN Microsystems
))_) ___ _ _ __ ___ ___ __ | ENS System Administrator
((`\ ((_( ((`1( ((_)((_( ((_( ((' | ------------------------
)) ._)) | http://www.dopeman.com
Yin Alan W
RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
:
: To the one who suggested the Miata. There was about eight Miatas in the
: apartment complex that I lived. Most of them was in poor condition. The
: tops were deteriorated and the most of them did not have a rear window
: anymore. The Miata has poor interior room, does not handle well, does not
: have good acceleration, and it's over-priced. The only thing that I find
: good about it is its looks and the good looking young women who drives
: them.
Like all cars, if you don't look after them they will deteriorate. I have seen
BMWs and Benz look like shitboxes. But it does not say much about the car, just
the owner was too lazy to look after the car, or has too much money so they can
afford a new car when their current car breaks down.
Saying just because your '8' miata is in poor condition that all miatas does not
hold up good is stupid. You want to take a look at my 92 miata???It looks as
good if not better than the day it came off the dealer lot...I also have a 88 CRX
that is rotting away in my garage. Does that mean the crx sucks? NO, it just
means that I didn't take care of the crx like it was suppose to.
Your complain of poor interior room in the miata, hey buddy, this is a 2-seater
sports car...What do you want the space of a Rolls Royce?? Does the CRX have huge
spaces???NO, you get what you bargain for. YOu wanted a 2-seater.
As for not handling well, where are you coming from? Miata has one of the best
handleing/suspension systems on any car of any price...Thats how it can make up
for the poor engine. Despite having a weak engine, the miata is still fun to
drive. It must be one of the most fun to drive cars ever. Even the BMW Z3 can't
compete with it, let alone the CRX/Del Sol...
: I purchased my "Civic" CRX strictly for work because of its reputed
: reliability and great gas mileage. Now that it has over 150K miles I came
: on this newsgroup for maintenance references. Until now my experience has
: been pleasant. It seems this newsgroup has turned into a place for
: dueling egos. I have to admit I am also guilty of slamming others when I
: was slammed. I think I'll find somewhere else for support.
If I remember correctly, it was you who started this 'civic' 'crx' thing, by
saying you will never own a 'civic', when in fact you do...There is nothing wrong
with owning a civic, admit the fact.
I just jumped in to give support to whoever you were arguing with over this name
thing. If it sounds like a duck, and it looks like a duck, and quacks like a
duck, most likely its a duck.
Ignasi Palou-Rivera
kwo...@explorer2.clark.net (Ken Woods) writes: Honda called the CRX
> the "CIVIC CRX" from 1983/4 to 1987. When the 2nd gen CRX's came
> out Honda decided to drop the CIVIC from the official name, in order
> to get away from the "economy" image, and draw more of the
> performance crowd. Being the President of the CRX Owners group
> (www.crx.org), I think I know what I'm talking about.
Not exactly. There's plenty of Honda originated stuff calling the 2nd
generation CRX a Civic CRX, especially outside the US. I think some
CRX owners are a little paranoid about people calling thei cars a
Civic. On the other hand I'm quite proud of owning a car with such
humble origins.
Ignasi.
A former Civic Si owner and current CRX owner.
--
Ignasi Palou-Rivera
Dept of Chemical Engineering U of Wisconsin, Madison
pa...@osnome.che.wisc.edu http://osnome.che.wisc.edu/~palou
Ignasi Palou-Rivera
rsc...@cts.com (Velocity) writes:
> You mean "header"? 4 bangers use what we call a header. V-type engines
> use headers.
Yeah, tell that to Subaru or Alfa Romeo. Not all four cylinders are
inline, you know.
I guess you could put headers in a 2CV too (V2 at 180 deg :))
> An exhaust alone will do just about nothing without a header. A header
> will give some noticable oomph. A cone filter will do just about nothing.
Blah, blah, blah. You don't sell any of the stuff, do you?
> -- Velocity -- *(rsc...@cts.com)*
>
> My Project:
> '84 Accord <1829cc>
> K&N--Weber--Dynomax--Suspension Techniques--American Eagle
> Blaupunkt--Rockford Fosgate--Coustic Power Logic--JBL
> 450 watts combined continuous RMS
Yawn.
Ignasi.
Chris Layne
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:35:57 -0800, "Shawn P. Church" <spch...@mail.idt.net>
wrote:
>bait the hook to get you guys in a tizzy. At least make them put some
>effort into creating something worthy of responding to.
>
> Shawn
A la Mr. Rahim.
Ryan Rahim
Yin Alan W (4a...@qlink.queensu.ca) wrote:
: RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
: drive. It must be one of the most fun to drive cars ever. Even the BMW Z3 can't
: compete with it, let alone the CRX/Del Sol...
How do you figure a Z3 can't compete with a Miata?
Ryan
Michel Harmon
The key is just putting your right foot down and going for it.
Ryan Rahim
(continued. My original message is requoted, please reply to this one)
Ryan Rahim (rah...@unixg.ubc.ca) wrote:
: Shawn P. Church (spch...@mail.idt.net) wrote:
: : Ryan Rahim wrote:
: : >
: : > A little under 20 hp for exhaust, air filter and headers? Those must be
: : > pretty small horses.
: : >
: : > Ryan
: : Not at all. A good cold air induction system is worth 6-10 hp at the
: : wheels, a header and exhaust combo can add another 8-10 there as well and
: : a timing bump can be worth a couple more. Add 15%-20% for losses back to
: : the crank and it's within reach. GRM got an old 1.6 Integra motor to 121
: : hp at the wheels, a fair gain considering the motor was rated at 116 at
: : the crank when new, using similar mods.
(End Church, S.P,)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Begin Rahim, R.)
: Is that SAE horses, or magazine horses?
: :-)
: I've come to the conclusion that dynoes used by the mainstream public,
: at autox etc, and magazines aren't consistent or accurate. I know you
: dynoed your car to assess the gains given by the mods but wasn't that just
: one test? Were they on the same dyno with external factors (humidity,
: temp) kept constant? I wonder how reliably the data will hold up over a
: number of trials which, in essence, is the statistical method.
: Furthermore, due to
: production tolerances, engine hp have variances. Hopefully, a
: manufacturer would use the mean, or better the median, when they quote hp
: figures for a car. But often, this turns out not to be the case.
: I would appreciate it muchly (sic) if you could repost a table showing your
: dyno results thru the various stages of
: your mods, or at least point me to the right direction where I might see
: them.
: In closing, I would like to propose that if simple bolt-ons such
: as changing a header, exhaust and air-filter can in reality add approx.
: 20 hp to a car, that would suggest
: that it is not a well engineered car in the first place, as this is essentially
: *free hp*, that the manufacturer inefficiently loses. Certainly, there
: is no downside for having the more efficient header stock is there?
: On particular brands of cars, aftermarket headers, exhausts give little to
: no noticeable gain, or sometimes even a hp loss, in the case of a poorly
: designed aftermarket exhaust. The car's engineers have
: determined the specific amount of back pressure and flow characteristics
: required for the largest gains. The compromise factor, in this case, was
: noise. A little power gain for a lot more noise. From a performance
: (numerical) standpoint this amounted to nothing at the track. Of
course, the market will always cater to buffoons who think they're
getting something by having a big-ass muffler hanging out the rear.
: A certain other car,
: uses BASF Ultramid Plastic as the material of choice for its stock intake
: manifold. The advantage is the superior air flow due to the material and
: the casting angles that cannot be accomplished with conventional metal. Now
: there's a good example of OEM efficiency that will be hard to beat by the
: aftermarket.
: It has been my experience, that cone type airfilters in reality don't give
: any sort of gain that makes a *true* performance difference. Perceptually,
: there is increased induction noise, which may account for people (who have
: spent money, which itself biases the results), insist that they feel
more power. Any gains
thru increased airflow is negated via "hot" intake air vs. cool air.
I feel that *free* hp gains should be fully exploited by a manufacturer,
and thus any substantial gains thru the aftermarket should come by more
exotic methods that a manufacturer choses not to use for cost or
compromise. Some of the traditional methods:
With a performance chip that advances timing, you are getting
performance gains while promising to use premium gas at all times.
Furthermore, the engine's rev-limit is increased by a few hundred more rpm.
For some reason or other, chips are not as big with Honda owners as
German cars running Motronic.
Hotter cam: Worse idle, better highend power, may lose some low end torque.
Port N' Polish: Expense $$$
Turbo, Supercharger, Nitrous: Obvious gains.
Increased displacement, changing gearing, blue-print injectors
Etc. etc, you get the idea.
There are certainly plenty of examples of
cars that don't get much gains from aftermarket headers, exhausts,
intakes, filters, throttle bodies. So how
come all these big gains with Honda,
that are not seen in many other manufacturers from another continent,
based on stuff that should have been done factory? Little gains are to
be gained from modifying Porsche 911 Turbo exhausts, headers, or
intakes! Most of the gain is from boosting displacement, or turbo boost
pressure.
I'm also insulted by many aftermarket manufacturers (which shall remain
nameless) promising large gains in their ads, when in reality it amounts
to very little, nothing, or a loss. (Eg. Superchips claiming +25 hp.
Whatever.)
Your experience and view on the matter may vary, so I would like to hear
about them.
P.S. I cross-posted this into the rec.autos.driving newsgroup (under a
different thread title, for more insight into this matter.) You may
chose to reply there and cross-post to this newsgroup.
Ryan
Ryan Rahim
Shawn P. Church (spch...@mail.idt.net) wrote:
: Ryan Rahim wrote:
: >
: > A little under 20 hp for exhaust, air filter and headers? Those must be
: > pretty small horses.
: >
: > Ryan
: Not at all. A good cold air induction system is worth 6-10 hp at the
: wheels, a header and exhaust combo can add another 8-10 there as well and
: a timing bump can be worth a couple more. Add 15%-20% for losses back to
: the crank and it's within reach. GRM got an old 1.6 Integra motor to 121
: hp at the wheels, a fair gain considering the motor was rated at 116 at
: the crank when new, using similar mods.
Is that SAE horses, or magazine horses?
:-)
I've come to the conclusion that dynoes used by the mainstream public,
at autox etc, and magazines aren't consistent or accurate. I know you
dynoed your car to assess the gains given by the mods but wasn't that just
one test? Were they on the same dyno with external factors (humidity,
temp) kept constant? I wonder how reliably the data will hold up over a
number of trials which, in essence, is the statistical method.
Furthermore, due to
production tolerances, engine hp have variances. Hopefully, a
manufacturer would use the mean, or better the median, when they quote hp
figures for a car. But often, this turns out not to be the case.
I would appreciate it muchly (sic) if you could repost a table showing your
dyno results thru the various stages of
your mods, or at least point me to the right direction where I might see
them.
In closing, I would like to propose that if simple bolt-ons such
as changing a header, exhaust and air-filter can in reality add approx.
20 hp to a car, that would suggest
that it is not a well engineered car in the first place, as this is essentially
*free hp*, that the manufacturer inefficiently loses. Certainly, there
is no downside for having the more efficient header stock is there?
On particular brands of cars, aftermarket headers, exhausts give little to
no noticeable gain, or sometimes even a hp loss, in the case of a poorly
designed aftermarket exhaust. The engineers have
determined the specific amount of back pressure and flow characteristics
required for the largest gains. The compromise factor, in this case, was
noise. A little power gain for a lot more noise. From a performance
(numerical) standpoint this amounted to nothing at the track.
A certain other car,
uses BASF Ultramid Plastic as the material of choice for its stock intake
manifold. The advantage is the superior air flow due to the material and
the casting angles that cannot be accomplished with conventional metal. Now
there's a good example of OEM efficiency that will be hard to beat by the
aftermarket.
It has been my experience, that cone type airfilters in reality don't give
any sort of gain that makes a *true* performance difference. Perceptually,
there is increased induction noise, which may account for people (who have
spent money, which itself biases the results.)
(Cont l8r)
Ryan
Ed Yee
RL56 wrote:
>
> Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that? You have been studying too
> because a CRX does not drive like a Civic. Do you own a CRX or do you own
> a Civic and wish you own a CRX.
What are you talking about?? A CRX IS A CIVIC! Hence, Civic CRX!
Ed
john_fracisco
In article <5c6525$skq$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim)
writes:
>I feel that *free* hp gains should be fully exploited by a manufacturer,
>and thus any substantial gains thru the aftermarket should come by more
>exotic methods that a manufacturer choses not to use for cost or
>compromise. Some of the traditional methods:
I think most everyone here is missing the point. Honda, VW, Renault, Chryco.,
etc. have designed these cars from the outset as reliable economy cars. There
are trade-offs that are made when these cars are designed and manufactured to
meet a bottom line and price point so that they can sell a lot of them. If
this was a perfect world every car would come from the factory like the Integra
R-type, or the BMW M3 Evolution, or the Porsche 911 RS America (in the
enthusiast's perfect world). It must save a lot of money for Honda (or VW) to
put an underoptimized intake and exhaust on an engine (a few bucks times
several thousand vehicles at wholesale), and to put underperforming tires as
well (Goodyear GA's on VW VR6's). To an auto manufacturer the enthusiast is a
small part of their scope, they'd much rather sell gazillion Accord LX's or
Jetta GLS's, because they're all the same, and it's cheaper in the long run to
do so. That's where the backyard tuner steps in.
Automobile manufacturers get a lot of publicity from their motorsports
activities, and would tend to prefer not getting bad publicity because Grandma
doesn't like the buzzy intake in her new Civic, or the new Civic doesn't get as
good of MPG, or doesn't idle as well, etc....
> There are certainly plenty of examples of
>cars that don't get much gains from aftermarket headers, exhausts,
>intakes, filters, throttle bodies. So how
>come all these big gains with Honda,
>that are not seen in many other manufacturers from another continent,
>based on stuff that should have been done factory? Little gains are to
>be gained from modifying Porsche 911 Turbo exhausts, headers, or
>intakes! Most of the gain is from boosting displacement, or turbo boost
>pressure.
>
You can't compare a $12,000 Honda Civic, which may have a couple hundred
thousand units produced world-wide to a Porsche 911 Turbo which costs over 10
times as much, and is hand built in small numbers. I think you'll find large
benefits from modifying the intake path and exhaust of any of the VW A3 models,
as well. It may not be as prevalent as it was with A1's and A2's, but the
benefits are just as clear. (I'm sure you've followed project Golf III in
European Car.)
>I'm also insulted by many aftermarket manufacturers (which shall remain
>nameless) promising large gains in their ads, when in reality it amounts
>to very little, nothing, or a loss. (Eg. Superchips claiming +25 hp.
>Whatever.)
>
I agree. Underhood cone filters are a joke. They're noisy, they use
engine-heated air. Ask Darrel at Techtonics (VW after-market tuner) about
P-flo's. Noisy exhausts are boooring, too. The Eurosport exhaust on my
brother's '84 GTI is not noticeably louder than stock, but is freer flowing,
and is mated to a larger throttle body at the other end, and a header and
free-flow cat. upstream.
I'm really insulted by people who plaster stickers all over their (or their
parents') car, proclaiming this racing team, or that tuner...what ever happened
to low-profile Q-ships? It's like watching a fricking cartoon, complete with
stupid noise effects (tthhhhhpppppp).
John Fracisco
'88 VW Fox (no mods., I spend my money on other things)
(Always debating on what my next vehicle may someday be....)
Ryan Rahim
JohnFracisco wrote:
: In article <5c6525$skq$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim)
: >I feel that *free* hp gains should be fully exploited by a manufacturer,
: >and thus any substantial gains thru the aftermarket should come by more
: >exotic methods that a manufacturer choses not to use for cost or
: >compromise. Some of the traditional methods:
: I think most everyone here is missing the point. Honda, VW, Renault, Chryco.,
: etc. have designed these cars from the outset as reliable economy cars. There
: are trade-offs that are made when these cars are designed and manufactured to
: meet a bottom line and price point so that they can sell a lot of them.
You are correct. I did mention this point in my post as well.
If
: this was a perfect world every car would come from the factory like the Integra
: R-type, or the BMW M3 Evolution, or the Porsche 911 RS America (in the
: enthusiast's perfect world). It must save a lot of money for Honda (or VW) to
: put an underoptimized intake and exhaust on an engine (a few bucks times
: several thousand vehicles at wholesale),
Well performance VWs have traditionally been strong in the exhaust,
intake area, while Honda puts more engineering and money into the suspension
and powertrain.
: do so. That's where the backyard tuner steps in.
I agree that we can optimize the car to what we prefer. But some things
are a waste of money to do, if the factory didn't do it "right" stock.
Eg. A more efficient less rust prone exhaust with the same noise levels.
: You can't compare a $12,000 Honda Civic, which may have a couple hundred
: thousand units produced world-wide to a Porsche 911 Turbo which costs over 10
: times as much, and is hand built in small numbers.
True, but then again, a better header isn't a big $ deal for the factory
are they? There is a saying that the largest bang for the buck for a
Honda is changing the header and for a VW it's changing a chip. I'm not
aware of any type of performance headers for the VR6 or 16V that are
popular items. There is a performance intake for the VR6 called the VW
motorsport VSR manifold, and another one by Dr. Shrick GmBh, which cost
in the neighbourhood of $2500-3000 US. The VSR is a VW-part, which the
factory chose not to install due to cost. Not much of a hp difference to
justify price, but some increase of torque, and a way-cool intake noise.
I think you'll find large
: benefits from modifying the intake path and exhaust of any of the VW A3 models,
: as well. It may not be as prevalent as it was with A1's and A2's, but the
: benefits are just as clear. (I'm sure you've followed project Golf III in
: European Car.)
I think most of the gains in that car came from the chip, and a cam,
which together made better use of a performance exhaust, than if
everything remained stock except for the exhaust. Some VR6s have an
airpump in the airbox to force more air thru.
: I agree. Underhood cone filters are a joke. They're noisy, they use
: engine-heated air. Ask Darrel at Techtonics (VW after-market tuner) about
: P-flo's.
Performance wise, I'll agree with you, there aren't justifiable gains. On
some cars, they sound really nice, on others, they sound like a
revving sewing machine.
: I'm really insulted by people who plaster stickers all over their (or their
: parents') car, proclaiming this racing team, or that tuner...what ever happened
: to low-profile Q-ships? It's like watching a fricking cartoon, complete with
: stupid noise effects (tthhhhhpppppp).
Well, there's no accounting for tastes. But some of these people buy the
loudest performance exhaust, tallest spoilers, and tinted pimp-ass
tail-lights and then you hear them revv
away, as the automatic clicks thru its gears. WaaaaayipWaaaayipWaaa :-)
: John Fracisco
: '88 VW Fox (no mods., I spend my money on other things)
: (Always debating on what my next vehicle may someday be....)
Ryan
Passat with some *tasteful* mods. Wondering when my vehicle is going to
die, so I can replace it some day.
Steven Scala
Scott Willsey (sco...@europa.com) wrote:
: On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:42:39 -0800, Buzz <the...@bestnet.com> wrote:
: Any bozo can romp the gas pedal on a straight piece
: of pavement, but a lot of those same bozos can also throw their cars
: in the weeds when they have to use some timing, judgement, and depend
: on their car's handling.
:
Actually, those bozos maintain that launching and shifting take much
concentration, as if nobody but the drag racer has to 'contend with'
either of them.
-Steven Scala.
Steven Scala
RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
:
: To the one who suggested the Miata. There was about eight Miatas in the
: apartment complex that I lived. Most of them was in poor condition. The
: tops were deteriorated and the most of them did not have a rear window
: anymore. The Miata has poor interior room, does not handle well, does not
: have good acceleration, and it's over-priced. The only thing that I find
: good about it is its looks and the good looking young women who drives
: them.
You're mistaking handling for grip I'd take handling anyday, which the
Miata has plenty of. It brakes and shifts exquisitely, too. There are two
kinds of Miata drivers: the said good-looking women, and true enthusiasts
who are more reliant on their own skills than on an extra 100 ponies or
50mm in tread width.
-Steven Scala.
Tony Esporma
John, Fracisco wrote:
>
> In article <5c6525$skq$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, rah...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ryan Rahim)
> writes:
> >and thus any substantial gains thru the aftermarket should come by more
> >exotic methods that a manufacturer choses not to use for cost or
> >compromise. Some of the traditional methods:
>
> etc. have designed these cars from the outset as reliable economy cars. There
> are trade-offs that are made when these cars are designed and manufactured to
> this was a perfect world every car would come from the factory like the Integra
> R-type, or the BMW M3 Evolution, or the Porsche 911 RS America (in the
> enthusiast's perfect world). It must save a lot of money for Honda (or VW) to
> put an underoptimized intake and exhaust on an engine (a few bucks times
> well (Goodyear GA's on VW VR6's). To an auto manufacturer the enthusiast is a
> small part of their scope, they'd much rather sell gazillion Accord LX's or
> Jetta GLS's, because they're all the same, and it's cheaper in the long run to
<snip>
Excusez moi, mon ami!
Reggie Renault is not know for, comme c'est dit en Americain? hmmm,
Oui!!
La reliabileetee. Non, Non, les voiturettes de Regggie ils n'est son
pas
"reliable". Ze Maginot line was more reliable keeping les boches from
L'Etat Franc,ais than ze Renualt will be running when you need to vous
vous
allez pour achetez un kilo de pate de foi gras at ze Local Food
Emporium. ;-)
Even ze europeans consider Reggie's stuff, Le Junke!! And, when vous
realize
that vous have to pay ze local garage des mechanics beacuoup d'argent
-$$$-
to keep that piece de merde franc,ais running on Les Autoroutes, well,
it ain't very economeec like they'd say in Neuf Orleans, non?
And, of course, fish-breath-san, the Mikado needs to look into
reliability
for all those other america-no dryvah's that do not care about
performance.
Hai!! It isn't a matter of saving Yen or dollars, it's a matter of
addressing
the issue of reliability, smog compliance, safety, ride comfort,
etc....
In may cases the parts you posit as cheaper are actually more expensive
due to
the added research, longer warranties, liability, etc.
So, Generalissimo Francisco (Franco??) I'll bit you've never owned a car
as
single purpose as my late '70 Datsun 510 with it's racing springs, etc,
etc...
It was brutal on the old butt (I was skinny then) but, it sure whipped
most
stuff coming out of Das Deustchland at the time -1984 ->86 .
And, the K&R filter that that lightweight primer king had crowning it's
tuned intake manifold made a hell of an improvement over the stock
filters.
At one point I thought about cutting a hole on the hood and making a
fiberglass
scoop ( TACA, instead of NACA -I'm Tony, hey) but my senses came back to
me the morning after. And good Tequila does make you lose your senses
pronto!!
A stock Fox, what do you know, eh? And, you point is old, read the
archives.
tony ;-)
Tony Esporma
Ryan Rahim wrote:
>
> RL56 (rl...@aol.com) wrote:
>
> I suppose you're talking to me?
>
> : Honda Civic CRX? Where did you get that?
>
> From Honda's own nomenclature. Common knowledge, but I suppose you've
> been inhaling too much exhaust fumes from your CRX/Civic prone
> decomposing exhausts.
>
> You have been studying too
> : hard. Better take a break or get glasses. The front of a CRX does not
> : look like a Civic.
>
>
> You also must have had one too many brain farts
> : because a CRX does not drive like a Civic. Do you own a CRX or do you own
> : a Civic and wish you own a CRX.
>
> alot with Civics esp. the econo-feel that Integras seem to be able to
> get away from. And please, I own neither a Civic nor a CRX.
>
> : Come to think the Prelude looks like a stretced Civic.
>
> No, it does not. Not even the same platform.
>
> It drives like a
> : Civic. It costs three times as much but doesn't sell anywhere as well as
> : a Civic. "Boo Hoo."
>
> : I bet you drive a Civic and own a wannaBMW.
>
> Boy, I certainly wish you were a little more eloquent. Actually, I own a
> Passat.
>
> Ryan
VDB:
(1) You're wasting your time with these lame AOLrs.
(2) The US CRX Si's felt much lighter than the Civic Si's. They also
had that rattle from the rear parcel shelf. But they had better
road feel and were far more immediate than the Si Hatch.
The Si's HB's had a three inch longer wheelbase which made
quite a difference on the open road and made the car far
more useful as an everyday car.
They both felt very sporty, as you can imagine with that light
weight,
good power to weight ratios, rev happy motors and slick shifter
mechanisms.
(3) The Integras are blessed with better engines that compensate
for the added weight and longer wheel base. The parts are
also of better quality, hence the higher price.
Integras are better road cars than Civics because they have
better tuned suspensions as well. But, with the exception
of the GS-Rs, no US Integra can surpass the handling of the
2nd gen. US CRX Si's. And, the SiR versions of the Civic and
CRX are waaay up there with the current Type R.
(4) I agree. The Prelude is a very different car from a Civic,
it feels much more composed, it's quieter.... hell, it'
a different car altogether.
(5) We all know you've inherited a Passat and wished you owned a
Civic Si. ;-P
tony
Ryan Rahim
Tony Esporma (antonio...@jpl.nasa.gov) wrote:
: Ryan Rahim wrote:
: VDB:
H^2. How 'ya doin' today?
: (1) You're wasting your time with these lame AOLrs.
Yeah, tell me about it!
: (2) The US CRX Si's felt much lighter than the Civic Si's. They also
: had that rattle from the rear parcel shelf. But they had better
: road feel and were far more immediate than the Si Hatch.
Possibly due to stiffened springs and shocks. Do the same to the Civic,
and they'd feel much alike.
: They both felt very sporty, as you can imagine with that light
: weight,
: good power to weight ratios, rev happy motors and slick shifter
: mechanisms.
If you say so. :-)
: Integras are better road cars than Civics because they have
: better tuned suspensions as well. But, with the exception
: of the GS-Rs, no US Integra can surpass the handling of the
: 2nd gen. US CRX Si's.
Depending on the situation, the GSR can't touch the CRX in handling either.
: (5) We all know you've inherited a Passat and wished you owned a
: Civic Si. ;-P
Bwahahhahaha. Good one. :-)
: tony