Midas honesty
Crunchy Cookie
regards to the brakes, I was told I needed new front pads. Then I take it
over to Midas and they tell me I need new front pads, new front rotors, new
rear rotors, and new rear brake hardware. I then took it to my mechanic and
he sides with AAA, replaced my front pads, and leaves me alone. I remember
reading in an old Consumer Reports issue that Sears causes the most
complaints among automotive chains, but I was wondering if Midas is guilty
of this as well.
For now, avoid the Midas in Palo Alto, CA, at the corner of Arastradero and
El Camino. They tend to finish about 3 hours later than promised, anyway.
Richard Lionhearted
around. I am surprised they still exist. Figure the lawsuits and complaints
as well as bad service would have shown Sears corporate that this is an
entity not worth keeping open anymore.
I have had tires rotated once that was supposedly $30.00 and ended up taking
all day 7.5 hours and in the end they claimed it was $45.00. The day I went
there no cars were in their 5 lift garage area, when I went to pick up my
car there were still no cars but my truck. Needless to say I never went
back.
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:molo9.1480$ST4.4678@rwcrnsc53...
Dannie
needed a brake job. I said I'd think about it and then took car to Midas.
After their inspection they asked me why I brought the car in. Everything
was ok and they estimated I had 8,000 miles to go.
However in thanking the owner for their honesty, he said he pays his
employees an hourly rate. Many shops he said pay the employees not only an
hourly rate but also by amount of parts put in. You can draw your own
conclusions.
"Richard Lionhearted" <do...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:gOlo9.970$IU.81...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Bald Eagle
using them (or perhaps the system in which they must work) must get paid
extra for everything they do on your car. I had a Sears quote me $1000 for
front and rear brakes because "everything" needed to be replaced, but if I
only did the stuff that was "required by the state for safety reasons" they
could get it down to $600. I went to the Les Schwab that I've gone to for
years (I went to Sears first only because I was at the mall shopping with my
daughters - I knew I'd be there the 4 hours Sears would need to look at the
car) and Schwab did what was needed for $250. Looking at the details, the
work Schwab did compared to the estimate from Sears, it was still $150 less
for the same work had it been done at Sears. Done in far less time, as well.
They also pointed out the missing lug nut that wasn't missing before Sears
looked at it, and about which they claimed no knowledge when asked.
Brent
"Richard Lionhearted" <do...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:gOlo9.970$IU.81...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Peter Cohen
them going on three years now and they have never given me a problem or
cause to question their veracity.
maf
am concerned, they are a clip joint, the worst I have ever encountered. I
don't think it matters which Midas location you use, they are all the same.
When you get their lifetime free brakes (muffler, or whatever) and go back
for a warranty claim, the other parts and labor will cost you more than $300
even with the free pads.
I heard that Sears may have fixed their problems (somewhat) since they quit
giving the mechanics a percentage of parts sold. You might check with all
the dealers in you area and see if they have any service specials for brake
jobs.
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:molo9.1480$ST4.4678@rwcrnsc53...
Crunchy Cookie
news:sfmo9.35272$GF5.2...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Actually I had the reverse experience awhile ago. The dealership said I
> needed a brake job. I said I'd think about it and then took car to Midas.
> After their inspection they asked me why I brought the car in. Everything
> was ok and they estimated I had 8,000 miles to go.
> However in thanking the owner for their honesty, he said he pays his
> employees an hourly rate. Many shops he said pay the employees not only an
> hourly rate but also by amount of parts put in. You can draw your own
> conclusions.
I had considered that, and whether Midas employees are paid on commission
was going to be my next question. Even if they're not, they might have a
slight motivation... after all, if their branch makes more money, their
jobs are more secure. Or if they sell more parts, their boss favors them,
etc.
Crunchy Cookie
Nevermind, I just did.
"Bald Eagle" <baldeagle1313...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uq3sif7...@corp.supernews.com...
David Brodbeck
to replace everything they possibly can to reduce the chances of the car
coming back later.
SoCalMike
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:molo9.1480$ST4.4678@rwcrnsc53...
yes.
avoid em all.and sears. penke, pep boys, j-lube...
>
>
SoCalMike
"David Brodbeck" <dbro...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:3DA21810...@ameritech.net...
> My theory is that since Midas lifetime warantees their brakes, they want
> to replace everything they possibly can to reduce the chances of the car
> coming back later.
they just warranty the $10 pads. you STILL have to pay a few hundred to get
em replaced tho.
Bald Eagle
recognize one of the groups, so I just posted only to the one I was
currently reading.
B.
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:sKno9.1586$YR....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Gml...@scvnet.com
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:molo9.1480$ST4.4678@rwcrnsc53...
Only when their lips move.
The only guarantee with Midas is that they when doing any job they will find
(or more likely, create) a lot more work that needs to be done. Taking your
car there is about as safe as letting the "Last gas for 100 miles" mechanic
under your hood.
There may be individual exceptions to this, but I'd need a stack of good
reviews before I'd take a Midas shop over an independent.
George
jakdedert
and 4500 miles after my wife had spent nearly $250 there doing brake work on
the car. They told him they were going to turn the rotors--obvious--but
that the rear cylinders were leaking and that the drums were worn down
beyond tolerance...$400.
That didn't ring true to me. (I'd have never taken it there in the first
place, but....) I spoke to a few knowledgable mechanics who told me that
the rotors on that particular car were prone to warpage and that turning
them down would only make them more so (less mass to dissipate the heat).
All said that they had *never* seen Civic drums wear out.
I took that bit of info back to the Midas manager, who swore that the tech
had told my wife on the last trip there, that the drums were
marginal...although that's not what the paperwork or their computer said.
In the end, I had them clean up the drums, replace the rotors and leaky
wheel cylinder. In doing so, I saved around $200 (why were the drums over
$125, but new rotors only--IIRC--$67 apiece? The rotors are significantly
more complex to manufacture.) and the car performed flawlessly up until my
son totalled it.
jak
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:molo9.1480$ST4.4678@rwcrnsc53...
jakdedert
They sell crappy private label tires...40k warranty, which wear out in less
than half that. If you try to get a pro-rate on the replacement, they'll
try to deny the claim unless you can provide proof that the vehicle's been
aligned since the tires were new. Even at that, they'll only give you the
pro-rated discount, and a new *pair* of $30 tires--prorated to 50%--will
cost you nearly $100 out the door, after all the extras are tacked on...they
don't pro-rate the stems, balancing, warranty, mounting etc...and then won't
warrant the tires unless you simultaneously do a $60-$70 alignment.
The last time they tried to pull this on me, I howled in their showroom
until they gave me the pro-rate; had them do the complimentary alignment
check...then took the car elsewhere to have the alignment done. The numbers
there didn't agree with the numbers from NTB, although there was 'some'
misalignment. I wore that set out in 20k as well--even perfectly aligned.
I never went back.
Sears...all over again.
jak
"Richard Lionhearted" <do...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:gOlo9.970$IU.81...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
tomk
were merely for check-ups(noises and such). i was convinced my
exhaust header had a leak and was ready to have it repaired or replaced.
car was lifted and trottled with a cloth covering the tail pipe...not a
crack
anywhere. the guy didn't have a thing to sell to me. yay midas.
local shop, on the other hand, wanted $50 more than the dealer for new
rotors. i saved him the trip to Honda and took it myself. is $50 the
handling
fee? btw, honda gave me free pads. yay honda.
if you have "screw me" on your back, i recommend taking it off before you
have work done on your car.
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:molo9.1480$ST4.4678@rwcrnsc53...
maf
everything when you bring it back later when your "lifetime" pads wear out,
and you have to pay the parts and labor (except for the cheapo break pads).
The warranty on the pads is just a way to get you back into the shop, so
they can screw you again.
"David Brodbeck" <dbro...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:3DA21810...@ameritech.net...
odyssey
the car is just trying to pull your chain.!! Plain & Simple... I had
bad luck with Midas , I'll never go there again. The employee's even look at
you, as to say, You got screwed & he feels sorry for you. But he only works
there.
Crunchy Cookie wrote in message ...
Michael Cerkowski
Last I knew, they just warranteed the brake *parts*. If you needed
one replaced under warranty, you paid for the labor again. Maybe that's
changed, and there probably are a few good Midas shops around, but I
wouldn't trust them. My own experience with them was not great.
--
Earl So
#1
My dad took our van in for a brake change on the front tires. So there
should be no need for the rear tires to be examined. The next day the rear
tire falls off while my dad is on the interstate. Luckily he was not hurt,
but the wheel was probably messed with my Midas and they didn't tighten it
all the way after messing with something they shouldn't have touched.
#2
My dad's store is located on the same strip as Midas. Since our building is
new and not actually part of the strip we have our own sewage line. Our
line however barely meets our needs as we have frequent backups. Midas
threatens to block us off from the street if we do not share our sewage line
(which btw is illegal). My dad can't comply so a week later Midas tries to
use parking blocks to prevent people from parking in the lot. This however
is illegal since the city owns the half front of the parking lot.
Midas: shady auto business, shady business dealings
If they do it in Ohio what prevents them from doing it elsewhere?
Earl So
Actualnamenospam
>done, and with regards to the brakes, I was told I needed new
>front pads. Then I take it over to Midas and they tell me I need
>new front pads, new front rotors, new rear rotors, and new rear
>brake hardware. I then took it to my mechanic and he sides
>with AAA, replaced my front pads, and leaves me alone.
Why do people bother taking their cars to chain garages when the chains aren't
any better or cheaper than the independents ('cept maybe tires & batteries)?
The Midas garage located at 1050 E. Broadway Rd. in Tempe, AZ, charged over $1K
for a brake job on a truck, but because they failed to replace the
stretched-out self-adjuster cables for the rear drums, stopping performance
gradually became poor. After some protest, Midas agreed to replace the cables
at no charge, but the manager wrote on the invoice that the exhaust was nearly
rusted out. Yet when their mechanic was asked about the exhaust, he said that
it looked OK. Logical conclusion: The Midas touch miraculously turned rust
back into solid steel.
A car was later taken to the same Midas garage for a free brake inspection and
was discovered to need >$600 in brake work. The car was then driven to Arizona
Brake & Clutch, where a mechanic said that the brakes were fine, and when he
was told about the >$600 estimate by that Midas garage, he said that he used to
work there. A phone call was placed to that Midas to make a pre-employment
"inquiry" about that mechanic, and they thought highly of him, as they should
have.
Crunchy Cookie
> bad I wouldn't even trust it to leave teh shop. In fact, if you want
> to take the car with you like that I need you to sign a waiver saying
> we warned you!" She bought it hook, line, and sinker..
You have inspired another question: are shops ever in a position where they
are legally not allowed to let you drive off? I came in after a year of
admittedly high abuse on my one-year-old front tires. The America's Tire
Company (known online as Discount Tire Direct) shop where I took it in said
that since the cords were showing on spots of my tires, he couldn't legally
let me drive off (I went in for a rotation) and made me buy new tires. I
didn't question it at the time since I wanted fresher tires anyway, but was
that truthful?
Washland
After my car finally turned 90k miles I sounded like it needed a new
muffler. Off to midas, and after getting a verification from my local
mechanic/friend that the costs were about right. Muffler gets
replaced and I'm gone.
About a month later the cars starts to sound like it has the 90k
muffler still on it. It had been running and sounding fine for that
whole month. So I go back to Midas and the mechanic tells me that my
catalytic converter is now shot which has burned out the new muffler.
I asked why it was fine a month ago and he said that cac-conv "should
last forever" and something is wrong with the car. He gave me a new
muffler on the spot, but said that it had to be fixed by the dealer as
that's something they don't replace.
Yay for Midas for giving me a new muffler, but this should have been
remedied all at the original muffler replacement. Should have stayed
with my local mechanic.
zeeag...@uogwelf.c.eh
They are shady here in Canada too. They coerced me in the buying the two
extension pipes on my Celica muffler when I had the muffler replaced, because
they claimed that they weren't part of the muffler warranty. They claimed
they were siezed (fancy that, now :)) onto the muffler when i told them
to take them off the old muffler. After a lot of glaring and swearing I
paid the $10 extra and told them to fuck themselves on the
way out (I was in a hurry).
Went to the dealer next time, the muffler was higher quality and they also
cover the muffler extension pipes under warranty. Prices was about $15
higher for the whole job. Plus you get service without the scowl.
Scotty
--
Steve Howie ro...@127.0.0.1
Academic Services, CCS (519) 824-4120 x2556
University of Guelph
"If it's not Scottish it's CRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPP!"
Daniel M. Dreifus
Years ago one of our kids drove my 1967 VW bug in excellent condition,
and neglected it, letting the gear oil drain out of the cracked rubber
axle boots unitl it ruined the transmission (transaxle).
Aamco (now long out of business in that location) charged him $350 to
"inspect" the damage before I found out about it. At the time, I
regularly saw complete used transaxles for $250. When I got there the
unit was in pieces on their work bench. Verdict: need a new (rebuilt)
transmission. That was obvious to me without taking it apart, but they
said no, it might have been repairable.
When they were all finished (I have successfully managed to forget how
much we paid for the complete rebuild), and I tried to back up out of
their driveway, it wouldn't shift into fourth gear. (for those of you
unfamilair- all VW bugs had a four speed manual transmission) Their
answer: "This must be one of the three speed transmissions" Plus there
was way too much freeplay in the clutch and they couldn't figure out
how to turn the wingnut in the right direction.
dave lewis
They use overhead hoses with oil and brake fluild.
Grab the correct hose and turn the spigot on.
They changed the fluid with motor oil.
He got about 60 miles before the brakes quit.
"Washland" <ashl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fb7e180.02100...@posting.google.com...
maf
that it fails and you have to come back for the warranty claim, because they
make their money on the "extras" and the installation fees that are not
covered by the warranty.
<zeeag...@uogwelf.c.eh> wrote in message
dave lewis
about 20 years ago.
"dave lewis" <david...@the-spa.com> wrote in message
news:DrOdnRVzUZI...@News.GigaNews.Com...
jjn...@sonic.net
OUCH!
Gml...@scvnet.com
"Daniel M. Dreifus" <nospam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5ef7dc0.02100...@posting.google.com...
> I wish I could forget this.
> When they were all finished (I have successfully managed to forget how
> much we paid for the complete rebuild), and I tried to back up out of
> their driveway, it wouldn't shift into fourth gear. (for those of you
> unfamilair- all VW bugs had a four speed manual transmission) Their
> answer: "This must be one of the three speed transmissions"
No, they just thought that they installed an automatic stick shift! :)
George
SoCalMike
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
you should be able to do what you want to without the friggin "tire safety
nazis" on your ass. sounds like extortion to me, since then they can set
whatever price they feel like.
MDT Tech®
>
> Went to the dealer next time, the muffler was higher quality and they also
> cover the muffler extension pipes under warranty. Prices was about $15
> higher for the whole job. Plus you get service without the scowl.
>
> Scotty
Scotty, and they really do have a lifetime warranty on everything! ;-)
>
--
Toyota MDT Tech®
Join the "Toyotas Only" group at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Toyotas_Only/
Hosted and moderated by:
toyota_mdt_tech
the_real_tegger
scott
Chip Stein
what it boils down to is lawsuits. a few years ago in south florida
a guy stole a lexus from a tire stores parking lot. the store had just
put non speed rated tires on for the cust. the idiot that stole it
got in a high speed chase and blew a tire and wrecked it. later he
sued the tire store for putting on the wrong tires and he won!!!!!
letting people leave with unsafe cars is not really the issue in
my mind. it's protecting yourself from the dumb shits that can't
take responsibility for their own problems!!!!
Chip
odyssey
19.95 & 2.00 & labor, I said I'll go to autozone to buy one & save the
clamp. They said that's against the law , they couldn't allow it to leave
the shop because I signed before they worked on the car. So I bitched , they
reduced it to 15.00 , I went to the zone & it would have been 3.99 & 1.00 .
I'll never go there again.
>
John Smith
news:wrno9.44$n_1....@news.uswest.net...
> My experience with a Midas brake job was very similar to yours. As far as
I
> am concerned, they are a clip joint, the worst I have ever encountered. I
> don't think it matters which Midas location you use, they are all the
same.
> When you get their lifetime free brakes (muffler, or whatever) and go back
> for a warranty claim, the other parts and labor will cost you more than
$300
> even with the free pads.
>
> I heard that Sears may have fixed their problems (somewhat) since they
quit
> giving the mechanics a percentage of parts sold. You might check with all
> the dealers in you area and see if they have any service specials for
brake
> jobs.
Think again. Not all Midas are the same. They are franchises and the one
near me employees top notch mechanics who perform work to match and at a
fair price. They'll fix just about anything too. Sears is a different story.
-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----
Jeffrey Walton
Do you have a reference? I'm not playing Devil's advocate, I'm simply curious.
Jeff
"Chip Stein" <ch...@chipanddebby.com> wrote in message
news:5ddcea74.0210...@posting.google.com...
John Smith
news:ao079j$lla$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> That happened to me the little pipe extending off the muffler they wanted
> 19.95 & 2.00 & labor, I said I'll go to autozone to buy one & save the
> clamp. They said that's against the law , they couldn't allow it to leave
> the shop because I signed before they worked on the car. So I bitched ,
they
> reduced it to 15.00 , I went to the zone & it would have been 3.99 & 1.00
.
> I'll never go there again.
>
> >
> >They are shady here in Canada too. They coerced me in the buying the two
> >extension pipes on my Celica muffler when I had the muffler replaced,
> because
> >they claimed that they weren't part of the muffler warranty. They claimed
> >they were siezed (fancy that, now :)) onto the muffler when i told them
> >to take them off the old muffler. After a lot of glaring and swearing I
> >paid the $10 extra and told them to fuck themselves on the
> >way out (I was in a hurry).
> >
> >Went to the dealer next time, the muffler was higher quality and they
also
> >cover the muffler extension pipes under warranty. Prices was about $15
> >higher for the whole job. Plus you get service without the scowl.
This is *really* amazing. You should've just asked for your keys and left.
If they refuse, call the cops. It's that simple.
odyssey
They threatened to give me a non inspection ticket, and the thing that ticks
me off is that my car was legal for another 3wks. till it expired. But I
paid the 15 bucks and had been done with it.
John Smith wrote in message <3da41f45$1...@news.newsgroups.com>...
zeeag...@uogwelf.c.eh
They had the old muffler cut off at that point, so I was basically screwed.
Looking back on it I should have raised major shit, or at least had them
eat the cost of the extensions.
No matter, because I'm never going to set foot in those crooked shops again.
aMAZon
zeeag...@uogwelf.c.eh wrote:
I wonder what they would have said if I'd told them about the time
that my Chevy Nova's muffler literally rusted off while I was in
traffic between two cop cars. Obviously, I was driving legally
one minute, and illegally the next.
BTW, the cops didn't do anything but tell me to "get rid of that
muffler in the street".
--
aMAZon
zesz...@worldnet.att.net
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
Gml...@scvnet.com
"DragonRider" <Dragon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h607qu0kgfq6j4a9l...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:41:35 -0700, <Gml...@scvnet.com> wrote:
>
>
> >No, they just thought that they installed an automatic stick shift! :)
>
> models? Use the clutch to get it moving and that was it or something
> similar?
No. The Automatic Stick Shift was a 3-speed manual gearbox with a
vacuum-actuated clutch and a torque converter between the transmission and
the engine. Putting your hand on the gear change lever opened the valve
that disengaged the clutch. The torque converter allowed the vehicle to be
stationary while the clutch was engaged, and also provided some torque
multiplication to make up for the loss of a gear. Operation was relatively
simple, with no clutch pedal at all. You simply lifted your foot off the
gas and moved the shift lever to the desired gear.
Problem was, the system was touchy, and combined the worst features of both
manual and automatic transmissions. Performance suffered as well. A lot of
the bugs that came with the Automatic Stick Shift were later converted to
conventional 4-speeds.
George
Gml...@scvnet.com
> 19.95 & 2.00 & labor, I said I'll go to autozone to buy one & save the
> clamp. They said that's against the law , they couldn't allow it to leave
> the shop because I signed before they worked on the car. So I bitched ,
they
> reduced it to 15.00 , I went to the zone & it would have been 3.99 & 1.00
.
> I'll never go there again.
I can't believe people actually fall for this. They cannot hold your car
for anything but payment for the work that was done. If you've paid them,
they have no hold on anything.
Safari-Z
thought was free) thinking the pads need to be replaced and machine the
rotors and the guy said I need to replace the rotors, calipers and the pads
and shoes. I told I would be back tomorrow paid $35.00 for the inspection
and had my mechanic machine the rotors for nothing and then went to another
Midas (who was more honest) and changed the pads and shoes which were
covered under warranty and he didn't have a charge for the inspection. I
called the head office and reported that location and they sent me back my
$35.00. My mechanic told me before hand that the rotors and calipers were
fine just needed alittle cleaning. If you have a mechanic you can trust let
him check it first then you can go to one of these shops like Midas or Sears
and see what they say.
"Crunchy Cookie" <LSC...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Is Midas known to lie their ass off? I had an AAA inspection done, and
with
> regards to the brakes, I was told I needed new front pads. Then I take it
> over to Midas and they tell me I need new front pads, new front rotors,
new
> rear rotors, and new rear brake hardware. I then took it to my mechanic
and
remember
> reading in an old Consumer Reports issue that Sears causes the most
> complaints among automotive chains, but I was wondering if Midas is guilty
> of this as well.
> For now, avoid the Midas in Palo Alto, CA, at the corner of Arastradero
and
> El Camino. They tend to finish about 3 hours later than promised, anyway.
>
>
tom
about 12 years ago for defrauding millions of people.
I love to buy at Sears, when you walk in- look above the doors "Satisfaction
Guaranteed or Your Money Back". It doesn't say "for 6 months" "for 2 years".
That is an 'express warranty'. I took back a 6 year old washing machine on a
busy Saturday morning and got my money back. It took some loud statements for
the sake of the other customers, but they make the statements in their
commercials etc. Not Me!!
Safari-Z wrote:
-
DragonRider
>Sears Auto Centers were closed down by the US Government for about 10 years
>about 12 years ago for defrauding millions of people.
>I love to buy at Sears, when you walk in- look above the doors "Satisfaction
>Guaranteed or Your Money Back". It doesn't say "for 6 months" "for 2 years".
>That is an 'express warranty'. I took back a 6 year old washing machine on a
>busy Saturday morning and got my money back. It took some loud statements for
>the sake of the other customers, but they make the statements in their
>commercials etc. Not Me!!
Hehe, you *do* have to love the unlimited life-time warranty on their
Craftsman hand tools. I can't recall the number of times I'd find old
rusted sockets, screwdrivers, wrenches, etc. while out motorcycling.
Many times you could just barely make out parts of the word Craftsman
anywhere on them. Plop 'em on a counter and two minutes later have a
nice brand new replacement. Never have gotten a single question on it
and some of those clerks thrive on finding the weirdest most destroyed
hunks to replace. "We once got this one that..." kinda deal. They get
a kick out of it. Too bad you can't do that with cars.. <g>
Mike
would you take the car anywhere else to let someone whom you don't even know
work on it????
Max Wright
> Sears Auto Centers were closed down by the US Government for about 10 years
> about 12 years ago for defrauding millions of people.
They're still at it:
State sues Sears auto centers for 'pervasive' repair fraud
Friday, October 11, 2002
BY SUSAN K. LIVIO
Star-Ledger Staff
State Attorney General David Samson filed a lawsuit yesterday against
Sears Roebuck and Co., accusing the company of cheating hundreds of
its customers with phony car repairs in a "pervasive and consistent
pattern of fraud and deception."
The state's year-long investigation sent state employees undercover to
work at six Sears Auto Repair centers where they witnessed mechanics
billing customers for unnecessary work, as well as making repairs
without first providing an estimate or contacting the car owner, state
officials said.
In some cases, some brake and tire repairs were so poorly done they
could have jeopardized the drivers' safety, First Assistant Attorney
General Peter Harvey said. The state was not aware of anyone who was
injured as a result of the shoddy repairs, Harvey said.
"This is not just a technical violation of a legal regulation," Samson
said during a press conference with Harvey, Consumer Affairs Director
Reni Erdos and Gov. James E. McGreevey in Trenton. "This is what
appears to be an erosion of moral integrity in business practices by a
national retailer, and we are taking steps today to make sure it
doesn't happen again."
The most common scam uncovered involved charging customers to align
all four tires, when only two tires could be aligned or needed the
work. Investigators found 362 instances of this method of fraud
involving mechanics at five service centers in Deptford, Jersey City,
Phillipsburg, Toms River and Union, according to the attorney
general's spokesman Peter Aseltine.
State officials claimed yesterday they had found evidence of other
violations of the Consumer Fraud Act at the Livingston auto center, as
well as the other five centers, dating to 2000. Investigators plan to
subpoena records from the remaining 13 shops that operate in the state
to see if every shop engaged in the same pattern of fraud, Aseltine
said.
The lawsuit took Sears officials by surprise.
Sears has not had contact with the Attorney General's Office since
last year, when state investigators requested billing invoices from
five service centers, said company spokeswoman Peggy Palter, speaking
from Sears' headquarters in Hoffman Estates, Ill. "This wasn't
something they were working with us to correct," Palter said.
"We take the allegations very seriously and we will be investigating
them," Palter said. "If we find they are correct, we will take
immediate action to make this up to any customers. We work very
closely with attorney generals' offices around the country to make
sure our business practices are in compliance."
Sears is no stranger to New Jersey consumer protection action.
An earlier undercover operation a decade ago revealed six Sears auto
service outlets had made unnecessary repairs and charged their
customers inflated prices. Sears later agreed to pay $46.6 million in
a nationwide settlement, although the company admitted no wrongdoing.
Some 43,700 customers divided $2.2 million.
Problems arose again in 1997, when Sears agreed to pay fines for
failing to advise customers of their rights as consumers under state
law.
The lawsuit filed in Hudson County yesterday seeks unspecified
monetary damages to reimburse customers. Additionally, each violation
of the Consumer Fraud Act could result in fines ranging from $7,500 to
$10,000 each, Samson said.
Samson was asked what customers should do if they've had their car
serviced by a Sears center under investigation. "Double-check the
repairs," he replied.
Gml...@scvnet.com
"Max Wright" <numb...@worldmailer.com> wrote in message
news:5cae4cbb.02101...@posting.google.com...
> tom <tkr...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:<3DA4FA1A...@ameritech.net>...
> > Sears Auto Centers were closed down by the US Government for about 10
years
> > about 12 years ago for defrauding millions of people.
>
> They're still at it:
> The most common scam uncovered involved charging customers to align
> all four tires, when only two tires could be aligned or needed the
> work. Investigators found 362 instances of this method of fraud
> involving mechanics at five service centers in Deptford, Jersey City,
> Phillipsburg, Toms River and Union, according to the attorney
> general's spokesman Peter Aseltine.
I guess the moral of the story is that if you drive a pickup you shouldn't
pay Sears for a four-wheel alignment... :)
SoCalMike
>
> The lawsuit took Sears officials by surprise.
>
> Sears has not had contact with the Attorney General's Office since
> last year, when state investigators requested billing invoices from
> five service centers, said company spokeswoman Peggy Palter, speaking
> from Sears' headquarters in Hoffman Estates, Ill. "This wasn't
> something they were working with us to correct," Palter said.
LOL... i guess they should have told sears that they were being
investigated.... AGAIN!
BillyBoyBBad
wrote:
From what I could tell, it was undercover. You usually don't tell a
perpetrator that he's got guys he thinks are working for him that they're
actually working for someone else.
This case is primarily to show that Sears suffers from a lack of control over
its auto-repair franchise, these entities are "if we don't get caught, it's
all okay" mentality. This AG wants these repetitive practices stopped, and was
probably tired of having them crop up, over and over, all over. He want's
Sears to take control of the practice, or at least show that it's trying to.
Such practices can happen anywhere, at almost any independent or franchised
shop. If a mechanic or technician is only paid for time billed, that's an
incentive for him to get billable time on an automobile. We've already heard
from some Midas customers who heard words to the effect, "we can't let your
vehicle drive away in this condition until we repair all of it". I've heard
much the same at other places myself. How come it's okay for you to drive it
there, but not drive it away?
That Guy
> 19.95 & 2.00 & labor, I said I'll go to autozone to buy one & save the
> clamp. They said that's against the law , they couldn't allow it to leave
> the shop because I signed before they worked on the car.
I would have said "I didn't sign anything!" And when they showed it to me,
grab it and tear it up. Then call 911 if they wouldn't let you leave. But
that's me.
That Guy
have had three excellent experiences with them. In all three cases I
brought the car in because I thought it needed work. In one case, He took
me back and showed me that the rotors were within spec and the pads were OK.
He explained the problem was that the rotors were *near* the replacement
(had about 20% wear left) and that caused them to heat up when going down
colorado mountains with a station wagon full of grar and luggage, which was
what was causing the slight vibration. He educated me on how to better use
the brakes on steep grades for safer and smoother braking. Charge: zero
dollars. Incidentally, this was not in my home state.
Another time, I took a friend's car in to have some exhaust work done. The
car was handling very poorly. The mechanic who was about to do the exhaust
work showed me why (I hadn't mentioned the problem to him) because he said
the car was not safe to drive like that, plus repairing it would cost more
than the car was worth, therefore to put a new exhaust system on it would be
a waste of money. The problem was a missing (!) stabilizer bar and a bent
frame. Charge: zero dollars.
I remember having a third experience at the same place that told me about
the stabilizer bar, where again the mechanic gave me a lesson, advised me
against spending money, and sent me on my way, but I can't remember the
details right now.
Now, I know not every Midas is like this. In fact, I have had some poor
experiences at some Midas stores. However, I don't think poor experiences
are necessarily an indication that the corporate policy is to "screw the
customer," I think it has more to do with the store manager's and mechanics'
personal integrity.
"Earl So" <utr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Vwuo9.40953$kF.63...@twister.columbus.rr.com...
> I've had some VERY BAD experiences with Midas.
>
> #1
> My dad took our van in for a brake change on the front tires. So there
> should be no need for the rear tires to be examined. The next day the
rear
> tire falls off while my dad is on the interstate. Luckily he was not
hurt,
> but the wheel was probably messed with my Midas and they didn't tighten it
> all the way after messing with something they shouldn't have touched.
>
> #2
> My dad's store is located on the same strip as Midas. Since our building
is
> new and not actually part of the strip we have our own sewage line. Our
> line however barely meets our needs as we have frequent backups. Midas
> threatens to block us off from the street if we do not share our sewage
line
> (which btw is illegal). My dad can't comply so a week later Midas tries
to
> use parking blocks to prevent people from parking in the lot. This
however
> is illegal since the city owns the half front of the parking lot.
>
> Midas: shady auto business, shady business dealings
> If they do it in Ohio what prevents them from doing it elsewhere?
>
>
Richard Lionhearted
gone. How are they expected to pay employees and bills if they guy keeps
sending people on their way? If this was a big connected chain maybe but
arent each Midas independent franchises? Although I do think this is great
service but that might explain why all the bad places are still around.
"That Guy" <webg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PPlr9.60$_z2....@news7.onvoy.net...
That Guy
"Richard Lionhearted" <do...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:Rksr9.156$CT1.18...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Unfortunately as great as this sounds, this particular Midas will soon be
> gone.
How soon? I am talking about things that happened eight to ten years ago.
The first one was out of state, the second and third were from one that's
still going strong right across the street from a no-name budget
muffler-and-brake place.
If you think that it's bad business to inform customers that the work they
think needs to be done actually does not, please let me know if you own a
shop and where it is, because I will make sure I never go there.
jakdedert
by now...too honest.
jak
"That Guy" <webg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PPlr9.60$_z2....@news7.onvoy.net...
jakdedert
people--not just Midas dealers--operated like this. Unfortunately, he seems
far removed from the average Midas operator...and I believe he runs counter
to the Midas corporate philosophy as demonstrated by the bulk of the
responders here...not to mention my own experience.
jak
"That Guy" <webg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FaAr9.77$_z2....@news7.onvoy.net...
That Guy
their managers much but makes them dependent on a commission. That sort of
policy could push otherwise honest people towards doing dishonest things.
I worked in a computer repair shop a few years ago. I got nine dollars an
hour plus comission. The shop charged the customers from $79 to $109 an
hour for the work I was doing, depending on what I was working on. Needless
to say, I didn't work there long.
"jakdedert" <jde...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:94Cr9.5987$ku....@news.bellsouth.net...
That Guy
"jakdedert" <jde...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:b1Cr9.5980$ku....@news.bellsouth.net...
Wyatt Burp
> They are shady here in Canada too.
I also had a bad experience with Midas here in GA last year.
The location I went to reeked with incompetence and dishonesty.
(I won't go into the gory details, but they were definitely
not on the level.)
I left the place and immediately called their office in Chicago.
I had a long conversation with a woman there, and the situation
was rectified. The woman I spoke with in Chicago seemed to be
a straight-up and quality individual, so I'm not claiming the
whole company is rotten, but the place I went to most certainly
was. And their mufflers don't seem to last long either.
One thing about "lifetime" warranties...don't necessarily put
too much stock in them. Even a big and respected company like
NAPA has reneged on their "lifetime warranty" brake pads with me.
The employee blew me off with the comment that the warranties had
been "abused, know what I mean?" I didn't really know what he meant;
only that he wasn't going to honor his lifetime warranty. I keep cars
a long time; had the receipt for the pads, and could prove I owned the
car when they were bought, but he wasn't interested.
BTW, have any of you ever noticed that overall, the people with
the absolute worst attitudes are the guys who work at tire places?
Must be something about breathing in all that rubber smell all day
long or something.
--
Bill
Richard Lionhearted
The way Midas are run at everyone I have been too, I would advise you to
stay far away from them, those were the businesses I was referring to.
Although your story seems to send a different tune.
"That Guy" <webg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FaAr9.77$_z2....@news7.onvoy.net...
That Guy
"Richard Lionhearted" <do...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:BUTr9.5882$NI5.36...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Robert Wagner
couple of days later I was putting on chrome centers and lugs, when I got to
the right rear 5 out of 6 lugs were only finger tight.
Robert