Which is best for Cobra Kit Car: 351 or 390?
gary
Hi,
I'm wondering which machine one should go for for a Cobra kit car.
Would you recommend the 351 or 390 and why?
I've once been told that one shouldn't buy a Ford machine
older than a certain year in late 1960's - what models should I
look for?
(I'm considering to import an engine from the US since they're not very
much available here, so I want to make sure that I get the right
engine from the beginning - any suggestions welcome, please!)
Thanks!
- gary (gary_1111 at yahoo dot com)
Russell Heredia
The 390, used in many a Ford station wagon and truck, is a much more
pedestrian engine than the 351. No doubt, it can move and produces good
power, but it doesn't deliver the violent, neck snapping performance that a
Cobra demands. Specific performance parts are not as readily available
either.
Bryan J. Lee
get the 351C. It can make as much if not more power then a 390(i had both).
Plus the car will handle much better with the 351C.
Russell Heredia wrote in message <358FF607...@knownet.com>...
Erich Coiner
gary wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering which machine one should go for for a Cobra kit car.
> Would you recommend the 351 or 390 and why?
>
> I've once been told that one shouldn't buy a Ford machine
> older than a certain year in late 1960's - what models should I
> look for?
>
> (I'm considering to import an engine from the US since they're not very
> much available here, so I want to make sure that I get the right
> engine from the beginning - any suggestions welcome, please!)
>
> Thanks!
> - gary (gary_1111 at yahoo dot com)
It really depends on what you want out of your car.
Do you want it to look as close to a real 427SC? Then go with an FE
engine (390 ok , 428 better, 428 CobraJet better still, 427 best).
Do you want it to look more like a small block Cobra or get max.
performance per dollar invested? Then go with a 351 Windsor. Hop up
parts are cheap and the engine can make serious power.
Another choice would be a built up 460.
I think the 351 is the best all around choice unless that original look
is what you seek.
Erich
FENATIC
<<The 390, used in many a Ford station wagon and truck, is a much more
pedestrian engine than the 351. No doubt, it can move and produces good
power, but it doesn't deliver the violent, neck snapping performance that a
Cobra demands. Specific performance parts are not as readily available
either.>>
Boy, if you are talking about those squirrelly little windsor heads, you are
way off. A 390 built as it should be built, will allways beat those windsor
wanna bes. But but but...bottles and boost..sure.
John McClure
FENATIC <fen...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199806241413...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
> <<The 390, used in many a Ford station wagon and truck, is a much more
> pedestrian engine than the 351. No doubt, it can move and produces good
> power, but it doesn't deliver the violent, neck snapping performance that
a
> Cobra demands. Specific performance parts are not as readily available
> either.>>
In my younger years, during high school and early college days, I owned a
67 Cougar XR7 GT w/ a 390 and C6. It would definately give you a violent,
neck snapping experience. There were a lot of FE 352 and 390's that were
rather pedestrian but they had GOBS of torque. The hotter 390's were a
close cousin to the feared 428 CobraJets. I believe the official name for
the XR7 GT 390 was a 'police interceptor'. If you floored the accelerator
going 55-60 mph down the road, the C6 would shift to passing gear and bark
the tires!
Terrible gas mileage...but there is nothing like a big block for low rpm
torque.
If I remember correctly, the FE guru's name was Jim Dove. I think he's
still around.
I wish I had never sold that 67...Dark Green w/ tan leather interior. Boo
Hoo, now I'm getting misty eyed.
John Mc
Dennis E. Sparrow
FENATIC wrote in message
<199806241413...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
><<The 390, used in many a Ford station wagon and truck, is a much
more
>pedestrian engine than the 351. No doubt, it can move and produces
good
>power, but it doesn't deliver the violent, neck snapping
performance that a
>Cobra demands. Specific performance parts are not as readily
available
>either.>>
>
>Boy, if you are talking about those squirrelly little windsor
heads, you are
>way off. A 390 built as it should be built, will allways beat
those windsor
>wanna bes. But but but...bottles and boost..sure.
I guess you've never built a "real" Windsor, huh? Use the '69-'70
heads. No EGR bumps, will take 212 exhaust valves, and port nicely.
I think that they were referring to the Cleveland version of the
351, however.
D. Sparrow
'67 Cougar w/ 416 ci "Windsor from Hell" 485 HP, 454 FtLbs. No
Baby Bottle!
Subic Sailor
John McClure wrote in message <01bd9fa8$aa7a3620$4566cccf@mcclure>...
:I wish I had never sold that 67...Dark Green w/ tan leather interior. Boo
:Hoo, now I'm getting misty eyed.
Tito, get him a tissue.. ;)
:
:John Mc
pcme...@boi.hp.com
gary (gary...@yahoo.NOSPAM.com) wrote:
: Hi,
: I'm wondering which machine one should go for for a Cobra kit car.
: Would you recommend the 351 or 390 and why?
: I've once been told that one shouldn't buy a Ford machine
: older than a certain year in late 1960's - what models should I
: look for?
: (I'm considering to import an engine from the US since they're not very
: much available here, so I want to make sure that I get the right
: engine from the beginning - any suggestions welcome, please!)
: Thanks!
: - gary (gary_1111 at yahoo dot com)
IMHO, I'd use a roller 351 stroked to 408. SEFI, an FMS cam and
a custom chip and you're talking 375hp, tons of torque and decent
gas mileage.
The 390 has great nostalgia appeal. It makes plenty of torque and
can be dressed up like a 7 litre Cobra engine, dual quads and all.
Really you can't go wrong either way.
paul
--
Return address: pcme...@hpbs4922.boi.hp.com
The views expressed are the exclusive views of Paul Menten
and do not reflect the views of the provider of network access.
FENATIC
<<I guess you've never built a "real" Windsor, huh? Use the '69-'70
heads. No EGR bumps, will take 212 exhaust valves, and port nicely.
I think that they were referring to the Cleveland version of the
351, however.>>
Actually, sport, ive got a set of those scrawny suckers on my 302. 212 exhaust
valves, eh? come over and show me how, would ya? And most importantly, theres
nothing to port on the intakes. You cant go any wider than the pushrods are
spaced, and if you do so past the pushrods, the heads will simply lose
velocity. And the original poster said nothing about clevelands. Has anyone
noticed that posts by people who have experienced FE performance dont doubt for
a second there superiority? While those with the latest copy of 5.0 unlimited
are certain that the right hyd roller cam (roflmao) will make an otherwise
excellent 351W into a real beast? those rumpsticks are for mileage efficiency,
not hp efficiency. Take your choice. Get off the bottle, you look ridiculous
sucking on it for hp.
Keller, Michael
Russell Heredia wrote:
>
> The 390, used in many a Ford station wagon and truck, is a much more
> pedestrian engine than the 351. No doubt, it can move and produces good
> power, but it doesn't deliver the violent, neck snapping performance that a
> Cobra demands. Specific performance parts are not as readily available
> either.
>
---
Please crawl out from under that rock sir! A properly built 390 runs
very hard. (BTW they were built from 64-79 and have TONS AND TONS of
performance parts available - most performance parts that bolt to a 427
or 428 bolts onto a 390) 39 extra cubes and good heads will allow the
390 to walk away from a comparably equipped 351. Sorry. Cubes rule.
390's can be made into very nice running motors. Both the 351 and 390
are pretty pedestrian motors based on length of service and application.
-Mike
Keller, Michael
Bryan J. Lee wrote:
>
> get the 351C. It can make as much if not more power then a 390(i had both).
> Plus the car will handle much better with the 351C.
---
FE's are not light motors, but the 351C is no flyweight either. I know
that a 390 equipped with a aluminum intake and headers is almost light
as any 351C. The handling differences created by using one motor over
the other would be insignificant or marginal at best.
-Mike
Jimz466
Sorry, but a 390 ford is almost as big a joke as a chevy 305. If you want to go
for cubes, then try something other than a 390 abortion engine. Try
427/428/429/460. Or even better, use a 427 block with a 428 crank to get a 454.
Don't limit yourself to a POS 390. Hell, for the money you need to spend on a
good big block, get a 408 ci windsor kit. At least this way, you have a ton of
parts and transmissions available at reasonable prices. And before the flames
start, I had a 390 cougar, an 89 mustang convertible 351, and the same
convertible with a 460 now.
JIMZ466
Jimz466
DarkWolfff
300+hp and around 440 torque coming out of my 390. and i still have a real
good idle, good vacuum around 19 pounds, and get 16mpg in a 4000lbs galaxie.
as for parts they are all over the place you just have to look a little harder
for them. ill agree a 427 or 428 would be alot better but hell a 427 BLOCK is
$5000 u can pick up a whole 390 for $100 to $500 bucks.
trans missions are a little harder to come by atleast if your looking for a
standard but you can find c6s behind fes in trucks all day long.
FENATIC
<<Sorry, but a 390 ford is almost as big a joke as a chevy 305. If you want to
go
for cubes, then try something other than a 390 abortion engine. Try
427/428/429/460. Or even better, use a 427 block with a 428 crank to get a 454.
Don't limit yourself to a POS 390. Hell, for the money you need to spend on a
good big block, get a 408 ci windsor kit. At least this way, you have a ton of
parts and transmissions available at reasonable prices. And before the flames
start, I had a 390 cougar, an 89 mustang convertible 351, and the same
convertible with a 460 now.
JIMZ466
Jimz466 >>
Im sorry you are still an obvious idiot. Youre almost making me want to defend
a 305, and the 390 speaks for itself. Hope you have more money than brains,
youll need it.
Jimz466
BTW, if a 390 is so great, and they are such great deals, why don't more people
run them. Trust me, I am a die hard big block fan, but a 390 is a waste of
money. If you like small blocks, then use a small block. If you like big
blocks, why use a 390 when better ones are available? A 429/460 can be pulled
from any early 70ish land cruiser for a couple hundred $. Add early heads and
BOOM. Now you have an engine that will crush ANY 390.
Jimz466
You guys sure are easy to get bent out of shape. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
You probably would defend the 351M also. Tell me that engine isn't a POS.
Nothing better engineered than small block cubes with bigblock weight.
Keller, Michael
---
18 kazillion people can't be wrong. Ford built the 390 from, what 1964
to 1979? Thats a lot of iron. So if it sucked so bad and is such a waste
of money why did FOMOCO make so many of them? A properly built 390 is
not to be taken lightly. They rev like a 427 with the right heads and
valvetrain and they make plenty of HP/torque for a Cobra Kit. YES, given
a choice of FE's, a 410, 428, 427 would be better but that wasn't part
of the question. The guy asked specifically a choice between a 390 and a
351. Your early comparison of a 390 to a 305 Chevy shows your ignorance
of FE motors and thier capabilities.
The original poster didn't mention the way too heavy 385 series motors
at all. Why even mention them in this thread? The 385 series motors are
not cheap motors to build the *right way* at all.
-Mike
Jimz466
Let me see. Cobra kit car. 390. Cobra kit car. 390. Nope, they just do not go
together. No question.
DarkWolfff
>>Let me see. Cobra kit car. 390. Cobra kit car. 390. Nope, they just do not
>go
>>together. No question.
>
>choice. mainly because if i were going to build a cobra kit car i would have
>enough money to be able to afford to build a 428 or 427. but i wouldnt use a
>351. there is nothing wrong with a 390 no stock 351 is more power than a
>stock
>390 except maybe the boss 351. my 390 2v came with 270hp from the factory
>what
>351 2v did that.
>
thought of something right after i hit send the boss 351 was a 351c so it
doesnt count anyway.
DarkWolfff
Jimz466
Exactly!!!! COBRA KIT CAR. One would be much better off with a 351( especially
with all the stroker kits available for less than 2k$). A 414 or 408 windsor
will make as much, if not more, hp/torque as a 390. And external parts are less
expensive. Compare costs between 390 components (or for that matter any big
block) and 351W components. A 351 would save thousands overall.
DarkWolfff
money to buy the kit you would have enough money to build a real 427 or 428
which imo would be more impressive at shows and such. i dont know how much a
351 stroker kit cost but it cant be cheap and how long can it last or how fast
can it rev if its stroked and bored all the way up to 408 or 410.
Keller, Michael
Jimz466 wrote:
>
> Let me see. Cobra kit car. 390. Cobra kit car. 390. Nope, they just do not go
> together. No question.
---
Let me see. Cobra kit car. 351. Cobra kit car. 351. Nope, they just do
not go
together. No question.
Let me see. Real Cobra. 427. Real Cobra. 428. Real Cobra. 390. Yup,
they go together.
YES, it is reported that some real Cobras were outfitted with 428 and
390 PI long blocks and dressed in 427 garb when a shortage of 427 motors
threatened to keep Cobras from rolling off the production line. Who
would know the difference? Not many people at all. A 390/428 PI equipped
Cobra is still enough to cause the average rider to load his pants
anyway. The car is light and scarry.
Lift the hood on an excellent kit Cobra with a 351 anything and even
Chevy guys know its a fake. Lift the hood on an excellent kit Cobra with
a 390 and all but knowledgeable FE guys will have to ask if its not a
427 motor, or even if the car is a real Cobra. On esthetics alone the
390 wins hands down over the 351 in the kit Cobra.
Give it up kiddo.
-Mike.
gee...@inreach.com
Mike is right. An FE of any displacement is the correct engine for a
fat fendered Cobra replica. That is, unless you replicate a small block
Cobra, in which case you'd need a 289/302.
Anyway, I have proof of the statement about the non-Ford people not even
knowing replicas are not real Cobras. I was at the Pismo CA car show
with my brother's Cobra kit car, which has a 428/C6. MANY of the people
did not know it wasn't real. Anytime you see a non-FE motor in a fat
fendered Cobra replica, you know right off it's not real. If you see an
FE, you have to look a little closer, and know what to look for.
Here it is: http://home.inreach.com/geewhiz/4277.htm
Gerard
--
BOB Oil Recovery System: http://www.bob2000.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Geewhiz Homepage: http://home.inreach.com/geewhiz/4277.htm :
Fast Ford cars, ATV's, Rockets, & A Tribute to My Late Father
David Freeman
Been following this thread and now finally need to put in my .02 worth. I
have a Cobra replica with a 351W crate motor. The car was fast enough with
that motor, but with the 427 emblems on the side, I was a bit embarrassed to
raise the hood at car shows or cruise nights. Wanting more power and a bit
of uniqueness, I put a Paxton supercharger on the car. It looks awesome and
the power is truly frightening. I'm no longer ashamed to pop the hood. The
reaction I get now are head shakes or comments like are you insane or just
into excess. Bottom line - if the car looks good and go's good, and makes
the owner happy, put any motor you want into the car as long as it's a Ford.
See my toy at www.corral.net reader rides Dave Freeman's Cobra. Have a FUN
day.
FENATIC
My feelings are fine, and a 351M could be built with a 400 crank and a few
other cheap bolt on parts that would produce 500hp and 500 ft lbs for less than
2000. Believe it. A cleveland is too small even at stroker dimensions, to do
that. Cheap monster power, but it wont fit too many vehicles either
FENATIC
.<<Compare costs between 390 components (or for that matter any big
block) and 351W components. A 351 would save thousands overall.>>
windsor as cheap as I built my Hipo 428.
Jimz466
yak yak yak yak. All hail Mike and "fenatic" the car gods. Never again shall I
question your combined mental might. So many people, and soooo worried about
faking chevy guys into thinking you have a "REAL" Cobra. Gee, how many of you
have a quarter million+ laying around. Any "Cobra" I see, I know has about a
99.9% chance of being a fake. Will you argue this also, or are you willing to
let anyone else actually have a point that your greatness will not fight. Seems
like you have a comment for everyone in every newsgroup.
I officially surrender to the know it alls. A 390 is the best fu**ing engine
ever built and known to exist on the face of the Earth. I will happily trade in
my modest 466 for a truly superior and immensely more powerful and plentiful
390. I only wish I had known earlier about the amazing benefits of a small
bore/long stroke 428 wanna be. Learn something new every day. And to the
original poster: I recommend you talk to the company you are purchasing the car
from. I am willing to bet they recommend that you try something other than a
390 if you have it available. Not to offend, but choosing a 390 from the FE
family is like choosing a 260 from the windsor family.
Both choices are probably mistakes.
P.S. I still really can't believe how easy it is to spin you guys up. I may try
this more often. Now I understand White Tornado a little better. Stand back and
make an honest assessment. See if you can. Didn't think so.
Jimz466
Truly there must be many level headed mustang fans, both big and small block,
that have an opinion on this. Let's hear from all of you. No flaming or
anything, just honest opinions. If each of us had a cobra kit car, complete
with the exception of engine and trans, what would your choice be? Say you have
$5000 reserved for spending on this. I think this is probably the best way to
help the original poster. Think of all the excellent ideas he will get. I'll
put my plan and price list up tomorrow night.
FENATIC
<<P.S. I still really can't believe how easy it is to spin you guys up. I may
try
this more often. Now I understand White Tornado a little better. Stand back and
make an honest assessment. See if you can. Didn't think so.>>
Actually, dumb comments about good motors dont get me excited, its pretty
common round these parts. What with so many young impressionables grinding
their rocks on windsor stroker build ups in the latest 5.0 ragazine. Bring
youre 385 on over, Ill see if I can find a 352 or something to blow your doors
off with. Anytime.
Jimz466
OOOHHHHH,!!!! now we're really sinking to new lows. A challenge???? Maybe some
day. But for now, let's just on-line race. I'm sure it's one of your favorite
things to do. I guess I can make it one of mine!! Let's see, I'll start with
some truth. My daily driver 19 mpg mustang (with a carb 351, actually 357 with
the overbore) and nothing but lakewood traction bars and 8.5 inch M/T slicks (9
psi and no screws) ran 7.59 at 99 mph at an 1/8th mile track (Dorchester
Dragway) in South Carolina. If I remember right, the 60 ft was around 1.65 give
or take a few hundredths. It was a little squirrelly going thru the lights, but
controllable. Let's see now. My 466 probably makes about a 100 more
horsepower,has a C6 auto instead of a 5 speed tremec, and it now has a NOS
cheater system (adjustable up to 250). So it should be good for mid 6 seconds
in the quarter, right??? Shoot, I even have subframe connectors now, so maybe
it would hit high 5's. (this is the on-line racing portion if you haven't
figured it out yet)
So now let's hear your great story about your 390.
Pooky81934
I would cast my vote for a FE. I would try my best to make it a 427/428 but if
I had to settle for a 390, I still would prefer it to a small block for a wide
body style Cobra. Please do not misunderstand I have a 351C, 302 and a .080
over 390 with 406 pistons. A 410 crank setting in the garage ready for the
next stage (428 cid) and in a 3200# car at 4600' altitude it has more than
enough horsepower.
FENATIC
13.5:1 Tunnel wedge 454. I dont stand a chance.
Quentin97
<<Not to offend, but choosing a 390 from the FE
family is like choosing a 260 from the windsor family.
Both choices are probably mistakes>>
Some kind of ignorance there, boy. If you knew how damn fast stock 260's are,
then of course youd know how strong a 390 can be. But you dont, apparently.
Sven Setterdahl
Quentin97 wrote:
Yeah, I read on a build up of a 390 in Mustang Monthly using Edlebrock's FE
Performer kit (I think, maybe RPM) How's 419 hp sound?
Pooky81934
At this point it must be time to say put what ever type, kind, style of engine
that suit your fancy since you we be the one building and driving it. forget
the rest go with what YOU think is best.
Jimz466
Well said.
Dennis E. Sparrow
Jimz466 wrote in message
<199806300147...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>Let me see. Cobra kit car. 390. Cobra kit car. 390. Nope, they just
do not go
>together. No question.
How about: Cobra kit car 289!
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned dropping a K-engine in the
kit. Hmmm
Sparrow