Mallory: Unilite vs. MBI?
James Gifford
the new engine build. (This tired, 80k-miles, stock 2V 289 really won't
benefit much from the upgrade, but I refuse to waste money on an OEM
replacement that will end up in the dumpster in a few months.)
I've settled on a Mallory system - just distributor and coil for now,
ignition module to follow with the new engine - and once I decide
whether to go with the 47 series or the hotshot 86/87 Pro series, I need
to decide whether to go with the Uniline optical pickup or the MBI
magnetic breakerless.
I can't see any advantage that either has over the other. Both appear to
be functionally equivalent in every way. Is there a difference, or can I
just flip a coin, or go with "Unilite" because it sounds kewl? :)
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Bill S.
distributor before settling on the Mallory unit. The difference in
quality of design, and quality of manufacturing is why I choose the MSD
unit......Especially after having both installed on my engine
(351W/385hp Ford Crate Engine) for a few days of dyno
tuning....................
Bill S.
James Gifford
> From past experience, you might want to check out the MSD Pro Billet
> distributor before settling on the Mallory unit. The difference in
> quality of design, and quality of manufacturing is why I choose the MSD
> unit......Especially after having both installed on my engine
> (351W/385hp Ford Crate Engine) for a few days of dyno
> tuning....................
The difference is that the MSD requires the separate ignition module,
which is another $250 or so. Having just electronically dispatched over
$400 for distributor, coil and wires, I am happy not to have sent
another $300 or so, net. after it. I really don't need a 10k RPM unit,
either - even the new engine is not likely to exceed 5500-6000 RPM at
most. I like the ability to put the standalone distributor on now, and
add a choice of adjustable ignition controllers later. But thanks for
the feedback.
(Just to clarify, the Aqua Marine is going to be a serious street
scratcher, autocross-style. I'm not dragging it, either street or track,
and I don't want a full-bore race mill. Mega-streeter, with daily-driver
reliability. Some stuff is worth upgrading to race-ready, but there's a
point at which the very high-power, high-rpm stuff would be wasted.)
Bill S.
less than what you have quoted.
Bill S.
peter
i went with the mallory also, (not the uni-lite tho i figgured it would get
dirty and not work right). many other people like the msd units. i also went
w/ an edelbrock while most guys like the holley. my speed shop guy says the
holleys endup requiring more fiddling with and the edelbrocks are easier to
live with.
these were my choices and i dont have the technical expertise to argue one way
or the other so no need for flames :)
peter
Bill S.
Ask your local Speed shop if he has ever tried to chassis dyno tune
an Edelbrock carb vs a Holley Carb??????? I'll bet his markup on the
Edlebrock is far greater than the Holley as well (or does he try to
undercut Jegs and Summit as a normal practice, as my local shop does),
making for a slightly biased opinion when it comes to selling you
something to cover his/her overhead costs for a year. Also, if your
Speed shop does not have a chassis (not an engine dyno) dyno that they
can use to properly set up your carb while under load, then they are not
really sure of what is happening once the car is back on the street,
sure, you might feel a positive difference, but is it the most you can
get out of your engine??????...There are auto parts stores that act like
Speed Shops, then there are real Speed Shops that do not sell regular
auto parts, but instead dealing strictly with the race car community.
Which is yours............Do they have a web site we can see???????????
Bill S.
James Gifford
> You then spent far too much for the items in question, as I got mine
> for less than what you have quoted.
Mallory 8655101 Unilite Pro-9000 distributor, $290. Mallory 29440 coil,
$69. Mallory 8mm wire kit, $60. (From Century Peformance, prices about
10% better than Summit or anywhere else I checked.)
Remember that the Unilite is an all-in-one replacement that doesn't
require the separate ignition controller. The MSD Pro-Billet runs about
$260 (Summit) and requires an MSD box (about $150 for the base Series
6). Since I will probably add the MSD box with the full engine build,
I'm "out" $30, but only in the long run.
If you're paying wholesale or have a deep racer discount, power to
you... I don't.
peter
> an Edelbrock carb vs a Holley Carb???????
++++++++++
i think i will. my main interest is less maintence rather than squeezing out every
last hamster outta the motor :)
> I'll bet his markup on the
> Edlebrock is far greater than the Holley as well (or does he try to
> undercut Jegs and Summit as a normal practice, as my local shop does),
> making for a slightly biased opinion when it comes to selling you
> something to cover his/her overhead costs for a year.
++++++++++++++==
i dont know his markup but i got the carb and dist from summit before i met this
guy.
> Also, if your
> Speed shop does not have a chassis (not an engine dyno) dyno that they
> can use to properly set up your carb while under load, then they are not
> really sure of what is happening once the car is back on the street,
> sure, you might feel a positive difference, but is it the most you can
> get out of your engine??????...
+++++++++++++++
i set it up w/ a vac gauge. it liked about 20#'s of vacume
> There are auto parts stores that act like
> Speed Shops, then there are real Speed Shops that do not sell regular
> auto parts, but instead dealing strictly with the race car community.
> Which is yours............
++++++++++++++++++++++++
he is not a jobber that sells air fresheners to minivan owners :) (or headlights
for miatas for that matter). he is about 20 miles away from me. i do know he has a
bunch of austin minis he races at limerock, ct.
> Do they have a web site we can see???????????
dont know. i didnt see one on google. his shop is the driving image in unionville,
ct
peter
Philly Essnillius
>
>"Bill S." wrote:
>> You then spent far too much for the items in question, as I got mine
>> for less than what you have quoted.
>
>Mallory 8655101 Unilite Pro-9000 distributor, $290. Mallory 29440 coil,
>$69. Mallory 8mm wire kit, $60. (From Century Peformance, prices about
>10% better than Summit or anywhere else I checked.)
>
>Remember that the Unilite is an all-in-one replacement that doesn't
>require the separate ignition controller. The MSD Pro-Billet runs about
>$260 (Summit) and requires an MSD box (about $150 for the base Series
>6). Since I will probably add the MSD box with the full engine build,
>I'm "out" $30, but only in the long run.
I agree that the MSD Pro-Billet, plus mandatory 6A or better, is too expensive.
And I am actually running the Pro Billet Cleveland/Lima model on my '70 Cougar
and it works fine.
Can't say the same about the 6A box. I've fried two of 'em for no apparent
reason. I ran the ballast resistor and the diode, so it's not either of those.
MSD replaced the first one but said the second checked good and wouldn't replace
it. It was also a couple months out of warranty, but they still would have
replaced it if it hadn't checked good. My problem was that after about a year's
service on my car the unit would invariably cut out after about ten minutes. So
I couldn't use it. Hard to make forward progress when every ten minutes of
running requires an overnight shutdown. So I went to a Crane Hi6-R and would
recommend to anyone to stay away from the MSD 6A.
Anyway, the reason I'm posting is just to point out that there IS a stand-alone,
vacuum advance MSD dizzie for the 289/302. It's called the "Ford Ready-to-Run
Pro-Billet Distributor," model number 8352. Summit wants $285.95 for this one.
Just enter msd-8352 in Summit's home page search box and you'll get the hit.
On the other hand, Summit wants $189.95 for the mechanical-only, 6A required
msd-8584 Pro Billet, plus $131.95 for the 6A (msd-6200), or $321.90 total. So
that's $35.95 more than the stand-alone, plus an extra box to mount somwhere,
plus the extra wiring from the dizzie to the box to the coil, plus a ground to
the box and a 12 gauge battery hookup to the box. I would be surprised if you
got better service from this setup than from the stand-alone.
Further two cents: on my new 289-2v '65 Stang, the seller has already installed
a parts store rebuilt OE dizzie and some spiral core plug wires. So I intend
just to drop in a Pertronix Ignitor II (the "II" produces the MSD-style 30
degree spark), $109.39 at Summit (PNX-91281), and a Pertronix Flamethrower epoxy
coil, $31.95 at Summit (PNX-40111), and I'm betting (hoping) I'll get perfect
service for just $141.34.
By the way, where ARE these local shops that undercut Summit on price. Where I
live (East Bay area of the SF Bay Area) we have a very famous shop, called Vic
Hubbard's, that's usually about 20-40% MORE than Summit, PAW, or Jeg's, and a
chain called Performance something that's likewise. I'll bet it helps to be
living in NASCAR country, not in whine and cheese land like I do.
Yrs, Philly -- Thunder Snake #28
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=6&uid=116159&
James Gifford
> Can't say the same about the 6A box. I've fried two of 'em for no
> apparent reason.
The guy at Century Performance says he hates MSD and won't carry it. (I
called to check on the web order and asked about a 6A box to plumb in
later.) He's done back to back dyno and strip tests with the Mallory and
MSD stuff and found so many problems and shortcomings with the latter
that he won't even sell it.
Everyone has their opinion and experience - for every Mallory enthusiast
there's someone who thinks it's trash and won't run anything but MSD, or
Accel, or whatever, and vice-versa all around the ring. The Mallory
stuff exactly fits what I want to do, now and when the full engine build
is complete, and was the best priced overall for what I got.
> Anyway, the reason I'm posting is just to point out that there IS a
> stand-alone, vacuum advance MSD dizzie for the 289/302. It's called
> the "Ford Ready-to-Run Pro-Billet Distributor," model number 8352.
> Summit wants $285.95 for this one.
Same price I paid for the Mallory Comp-9000 equivalent, but it doesn't
come with the kewl lock-down plug wire retainer or the pretty red parts.
:)
> On the other hand, Summit wants $189.95 for the mechanical-only, 6A
> required msd-8584 Pro Billet, plus $131.95 for the 6A (msd-6200), or
> $321.90 total. So that's $35.95 more than the stand-alone, plus an
> extra box to mount somwhere,
I'm already mounting a Promaster coil on the shock tower (what an
appropriate place, eh?) and plan to put either an MSD 6A box (unlikely,
after talking with Century) or the new equivalent Mallory box there,
too, if the engine builder thinks it appropriate.
> By the way, where ARE these local shops that undercut Summit on
> price. Where I live (East Bay area of the SF Bay Area) we have a
> very famous shop, called Vic Hubbard's, that's usually about 20-40%
> MORE than Summit, PAW, or Jeg's...
It's Tognotti's up here in Sacramento, and while their web prices are
about on a par with Summit, their counter prices are WAYYYY higher.
Stupid idiots - it's probably one of the biggest performance and speed
shops around, and they generally treat their non-racer clientele like
shit. Their web price on the Hurst V-Matic 2 shifter is about $170; the
OTC price I was quoted is $274!
Mail order. The way to go. :)
Bill S.
Get me his name, as I may have vintage raced against him with my MGB
or TR4A....................
Bill S.
Bill S.
Rockaway...Not a typical "Speed Shop", they do quite a bit of work for
the high dollar race teams (circle track, drag, road race, some NASCAR,
pro-truck series), along with the local racers, and have a work ethic
second to none.......After racing for over 20 years, it is nice to find
a shop where the owner is not looking to retire by jacking up his/her
prices.......if your in the area, drop on in, and see for
yourself...........
Bill S.
Philly Essnillius
snip
>Mail order. The way to go. :)
Yeah, and preferably out-of-state too, so no 8.75% sales tax. Summit got it
right, when they opened a Reno warehouse. If I call in an order before noon,
the UPS guy is dropping it off by 3:00 the next day.
With my new Stang, I'll easily be laying out $1,500 over the next couple years.
$1,000 more if I go for some cool rims. I'd love to do business with Mustangs
Plus in Stockton, or The Paddock or National Parts Depot in So Cal, but I'm
checking out American Pony, Dallas Mustang and Mustangs Unlimited instead, just
to avoid the 8.75% hit.
James Gifford
> James Gifford wrote this:
>> Mail order. The way to go. :)
> Yeah, and preferably out-of-state too, so no 8.75% sales tax.
Yep.
> With my new Stang, I'll easily be laying out $1,500 over
> the next couple years.
Sheeyit, I'm laying out $1500 a week! :)
(But that is a full-out restomod...)
Jim
MSD is one of the best ignition companies I have ever used. I used to work
in speed shops in the late 80's and early 90's. I sold Mallery, MSD, CRANE,
Accel, etc... I have sworn by the MSDs and used them in almost all of my
vehicles over the years, from my drag car to my 6cyl 258 Jeep CJs. Truth be
told, they are all very good. One of the reasons some tuners don't like MSD
and have a hard time with them at the track is because they don't understand
how the things work and what they do. They are trying to check jetting by
looking at the spark plugs. The problem is that after a run if you don't
immediately shut the motor down without letting it come all the way down to
an idle, the MSD box will actually clean the plugs if it was running rich,
making you think everything is fine or even causing you to go richer (it
depends on how long you let it idle). The multiple sparks at low rpms
really does have an effect. Those MSD boxes will fire on anything. Bad
gas, fowled plugs, wet ignition, it just fires. If you shut the motor down
right after the run rather than driving it back and idling for a while, you
will get accurate readings from the plugs.
As for the unilite vs. magnetic pickup... I would go with the magnetic
pickup. The unilite depends on the rotor slots. Those rotors are mass
produced and we all know there are tolerances in mass production. Also they
are soft plastic and usually somewhat warped. Have you ever spun one of
those things, they all wobble a little. I'm not saying they are crap
because they're not. They are actually a good idea. I had friends that ran
them with no problem. I will say that all of them have had to replace the
optical pickup at least once (we used to keep an extra optic in stock). You
will rarely ever hear of someone needing to replace a high quality magnetic
pickup. I don't like the fact that every time you change your rotor you may
be changing the accuracy of the distributor and the timing (although only
slightly). The only draw back I know of a magnetic pickup is that at high
rpms (~8000) you timing will actually retard a couple of degrees. Accel and
MSD both have excellent pickups. (Mine lost 2 degrees at 8500, that was the
Accel, I don't remember the MSD figure) On most engines this is actually a
beneficial side effect, but I guess it depends on your engine setup.
OK, I'm done. That's my opinion. Do with it what you will
--
Jim
"James Gifford" <jgif...@surewest.net> wrote in message
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