50 oz harmonic balancers
Tony Alcocer
a used 50 oz harmonic balancer at the junkyard. We used the old timing
chain cover which has the timing pointer on the drivers side. We set
the timing at TDC and aligned the MSD ignition accordingly. Besides
having the firing order wrong the first time around..we went clock
wise instead of counter clockwise with the plug wires. We could not
get it to fire. After a couple of hours of messing around we finally
got it to run. We then put a timing light on it and it's not even on
the timing scale. I'm thinking this harmonic balancer came off a car
that had the 'pointer' or pickup on the passenger side. So that scale
is of no use to us..since it on the wrong side. Is our thinking
correct?
Tony
Jim Warman
side of the motor. If this motor is one of the swoopy ones, I wouldn't be
messing with junkyard balancers anyway. Be sure you are using the correct
cylinder as #1 (right front... passengers side unless you're in England). If
worst comes to worst, you can rough in the timing with a vacuum guage and
fine tune from there.
Procedure...... disconnect and plug any vacuum leaches - power brakes should
be OK but for sure disconnect the vacuum advance and EGR if equipped. Adjust
the timing to achieve the highest vacuum reading reducing the curb idle if
necessary. Once you have the highest vacuum reading, retard the timing
slowly (tapping the face of the guage, occassionally) to drop the vacuum
reading 1".
If this motor will see any high revs, I recommend a FluiDamp'r or similar.
There remains the posibility that the balancer you have might have a spun
ring. To verify, remove #1 plug and insert a soft wire (stripped copper
house wiring is great) and bring #1 to what looks like TDC (the wire will
stop moving up and will momentarily dwell at it's apex before it starts to
descend)and double check the timing marks.
HTH.
"Tony Alcocer" <tfi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5bd1cc82.04082...@posting.google.com...
boB
Yes, that's possible. The newer motors have the timing pointer on
the passenger side, the older ones on the driver's side. You're using
an old cover with a new balancer. Probably won't match.
You have a few choices, some expensive, some almost free. Buy an
aftermarket balancer that has the two sets of timing marks: Fluidamper,
about $250-300 (?). Replace the timing cover with a new style that has
the fuel pump boss: hard to find, around $120.
Or, simply make a new timing pointer out of scrap steel you have
lying around. That's what I did, because I'm a cheap bastard ;)
--
.boB
1997 HD FXDWG - Turbocharged!
2001 Dodge Dakota QC 5.9/4x4/3.92
1983 GMC Jimmy - Mountain Beater
1966 Mustang Coupe - Daily Driver
1966 FFR Cobra - Ongoing project
Mr. Ford
Many neophyte Ford freaks don't realize that the firing order of the early
351W engine is different from the 221-, 260-, 289-, 302- and late 351W
engines. The early 351W's firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, while the smaller
Windsor engine's firing order is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. What makes this
interesting is that 289/302 cams are completely interchangeable with 351W
cams, providing you match the firing order to the camshaft. If a 289/302 cam
is used in a 351W engine, the firing order must be changed to the 302
sequence by moving the wires on the distributor cap. The same procedure is
used if a 351W cam is used in a 289/302W engine where the firing order in
the distributor cap must match the camshaft.
Tony Alcocer
spun balancer. We have MDS ignition with out vacum advance. I was just
thinking of finding TDC by rotating the motor until #1 is at TDC..then
painting a mark on the balancer where ever the point happens to be
pointing at ..and then measure out 10-16 BTDC marks and go from there.
Tony
boB
That will get you in the ball park. Personally, I don't worry too
much about what the exact static timing is.
I get the timing pretty close. With the engine warmed up, and the
idle set where I want it, I set a 1/2 glass of water on the fender.
Then I turn the distributer until the idle is the smoothest, as
evidenced by the water in the glass. Then I adjust the total timing
according to how the engine runs. You generally have to play with idle
and timing both until you're happy.
Not very scientific, but works really well for each individual
engine in each individual environment. What works good for a similar
engine in FL, probably won't work well for my engine in CO.
Iggy
> a used 50 oz harmonic balancer at the junkyard.
My only question is WHY you would put a junkyard harmonic balancer on a
BRAND NEW crate motor?! Doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money on a
motor and then put used/questionable parts on it.
V'ger
motor. As I am in the process of learning as much as possible, I was
under the impression that the size of the harmonic balancer was
related to the size of the engine. Like my 289 4v would use a 28oz, as
would a 302 or a 351C. But big blocks use the larger balancer. Is this
a misunderstanding on my part?
V'ger
jma(NOSPAM)@snowcrest.net
1965 Mustang Fastback 2+2
Vintage Burgundy w/ Black Std Interior
289 ci 4v V8 oem A Code
Dual Exhaust
C4 Auto converted to AODE
8" Trak Lok
Vintage 40 wheels
BF Goodrich gForce T/A 225/50ZR-16 KDWS tires
Built in San Jose, CA on my birthday, May 10th ; )
Restoration by: Cool Mustang Restorations Cool, CA
Tony Alcocer
This is a Ford Crate engine(M-6007-XB3) 5.0 (302) and it takes a 50
oz balancer. His old 289 took the 28 oz balancer. I can't really
answer your question but to say the year of the motor has something to
do with what size blancer it takes
Tony
MadDAWG
> idle set where I want it, I set a 1/2 glass of water on the fender.
> Then I turn the distributer until the idle is the smoothest, as
> evidenced by the water in the glass.
I have to say that is a new one to me. I'm thinking that it doesn't work
very well with a high performance setup since the glass of water would most
likely end up on the ground. lol
MadDAWG
MadDAWG
"V'ger" <j...@snowcrest.net> wrote in message
news:m16ii0hk8aa00bgeo...@4ax.com...
> I didn't see anything about the engine size, just the it was acrate
> motor. As I am in the process of learning as much as possible, I was
> under the impression that the size of the harmonic balancer was
> related to the size of the engine. Like my 289 4v would use a 28oz, as
> would a 302 or a 351C. But big blocks use the larger balancer. Is this
> a misunderstanding on my part?
Yes it is.
The 302 was a 28 oz imbalance up till 1981. In 1981 they went to a 50 oz
imbalance. The 351w is a 28 oz imbalance.
The flywheel and balancer must match the crank imbalance.
MadDAWG
boB
Duct tape!
MadDAWG
>
> --
.boB = Macgyver? :)
MadDAWG
V'ger
grey cell.... ; )
boB
> "Thanks," he says as another grain of information gets lodged in his
> grey cell.... ; )
>
> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:07:01 -0700, V'ger <j...@snowcrest.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I didn't see anything about the engine size, just the it was acrate
>>motor. As I am in the process of learning as much as possible, I was
>>under the impression that the size of the harmonic balancer was
>>related to the size of the engine. Like my 289 4v would use a 28oz, as
>>would a 302 or a 351C. But big blocks use the larger balancer. Is this
>>a misunderstanding on my part?
The balance depends on how the engine is built. New factory
5.0/302's have a 50oz balance. In the olden days, the 302 had a 28 oz
balance. I'm not really sure why the change, but there it is. You
can have the engine balanced to 0 oz if you want to spend the money.
The entire rotating assembly must match: crank, rods, pistons,
balancer, flexplate/flywheel.
Here's the thing to remember. The harmonic balancer doesn't really
balance the engine. The weight of the crank (mostly) and rotating
assembly does that. The HB balances harmonic vibrations, so to speak.
So you just have to match all the right parts.
V'ger
with the 28 ouncer for now with my 289 oem 4v. If I have to rebuild it
sometime, I am thinking 347 stoker or 351C. Without cutting, can't
cram much more into a 65 Fastback.
The main thing is I'm learning stuff here.
OLDEN DAYS?!?!?!?! OUCH!!!!!!! LOL ; )
I just sold my 66 Fastback (289 2v) which was built the year I
graduated High School. That was the year I kept going by the ford
dealer's and drooling over a California Special in the show room.
OK, so you may have had a pet rock... I just had primordial ooze for a
pet. L-O-L
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:31:54 -0600, boB <bobc...@access4less.net>
wrote:
>V'ger wrote:
>> "Thanks," he says as another grain of information gets lodged in his
>> grey cell.... ; )
>>
>> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:07:01 -0700, V'ger <j...@snowcrest.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I didn't see anything about the engine size, just the it was acrate
>>>motor. As I am in the process of learning as much as possible, I was
>>>under the impression that the size of the harmonic balancer was
>>>related to the size of the engine. Like my 289 4v would use a 28oz, as
>>>would a 302 or a 351C. But big blocks use the larger balancer. Is this
>>>a misunderstanding on my part?
>
> The balance depends on how the engine is built. New factory
>5.0/302's have a 50oz balance. In the olden days, the 302 had a 28 oz
>balance. I'm not really sure why the change, but there it is. You
>can have the engine balanced to 0 oz if you want to spend the money.
>The entire rotating assembly must match: crank, rods, pistons,
>balancer, flexplate/flywheel.
> Here's the thing to remember. The harmonic balancer doesn't really
>balance the engine. The weight of the crank (mostly) and rotating
>assembly does that. The HB balances harmonic vibrations, so to speak.
>So you just have to match all the right parts.
V'ger