302 and 351 w
Nina
I was wondering....what the difference between a 302 and 351 Windsor
is?? What would I have to do if I wanted to upgrade. I read somewhere
that a 351 W is just an enlarged 289/302....is that correct?
Whole Lotta Tom
289/302 block to accommodate the longer stroke of the 351W
302
4" bore, 3" stroke
351W
4" bore, 3.5" stroke
The 351W uses the same motor mounts as a 302, and uses the same bell-housing
bolt pattern, so the swap from a 302 to a 351W is simple. There are
specific details with regard to exhaust, water pump inlet, accessory
brackets and flywheels and harmonic balancers depending on the year of
interest and the model of car. Hip us to your ride and we can better inform
you.
Why swap? The longer stroke gives you more torque off idle and more power
overall at a lower RPM, so there's much more "go" right under your foot, and
the weight penalty is very small. Parts are plentiful and cheap.
--
Tom
T/S #3
"Li'l Thunder '58"
See it here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/
Nina <riz...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:387D7364...@swbell.net...
Mike
>bolt pattern, so the swap from a 302 to a 351W is simple. There are
>specific details with regard to exhaust, water pump inlet, accessory
>brackets and flywheels
Also please be aware that the 351 is wider, and requires a 351w specific
intake.
Mike
91 5L LX Convertible -converted AOD-T5 and lovin' it!
86 LX Hatch Soon to be 2.3L Turbo/Intercooled
86 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe - 5-Speed
<a href="http://members.aol.com/mpompe2/main.html">Mike's Page</a>
Matt Hamby
Mike <mpo...@aol.com> wrote in article
<20000113022211...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
335 Series
No, he's right, the 351C you are thinking of is a totally different
animal. The 351W is wider between the heads and requires an 351
specific intake <lower intake for you EFI guys>
--
Marcus
68 Mustang x2, 66 T-bird
email: fordracing68-at-yahoo-dot-com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Nina
I have a 66 mustang with a 302 in it. It has a 5 spd tranny from an 86
mustang. I want to upgrade to a 351 W after this summer, and was wondering
how much the cost and what I would need to do the upgrade?? Thanks!!!
Matt Hamby
335 Series <335s...@my-deja.com> wrote in article
<85l1ka$7rs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Hogan Whittall
> I've seen intakes advertised as small block ford (289-302-351)
>
The 351w has a taller deck height and is wider between the heads, the
289/302 intake is too narrow. The Torker II on my 351w says right on it
"Torker II 351W".
Go to www.summitracing.com and look at the intake manifolds, of the two
makers I just looked at (Edelbrock and Weiand), none of them list 351w
with the 289/302, it's always a seperate intake just for that engine. The
ads are probably typos or space savers since they're usually typed up by
marketing and not the technical people. =)
--
--
Hogan Whittall
Hogan Whittall
> Hi,
>
> I have a 66 mustang with a 302 in it. It has a 5 spd tranny from an 86
> mustang. I want to upgrade to a 351 W after this summer, and was wondering
> how much the cost and what I would need to do the upgrade?? Thanks!!!
>
Having a 302 in there already makes it easier then going from an I6, but
it'll still be a challenge with the limited space. Technically the engine
can bolt right in, but you need to find out if you need to make any
changes to it to hook up to the tranny. A local shop (Mustang Ranch) has
a guy by the name of Rod, he's got a 65/66 with a 351w in it that he road
races at the local tracks. If you want to give him a call, the shop # is
408-247-9005. Great guys down there, but a bit pricey for certain
things. He should at least be able to give you an idea of parts and cost
if you tell him what you have. They do 5spd conversions and all sort of
stuff, so they should have a fairly good idea. Also have a website
(recently updated) at http://www.mustangranch.org/
Good luck!
--
--
Hogan Whittall
Mike
>
>I think you're thinking of the 351c.
>
No I'm not. The 351 W intakes are NOT interchangable with the 260/286/302.
335 Series
"Matt Hamby" <m_h...@batpa.com> wrote:
> I've seen intakes advertised as small block ford (289-302-351)
Where?
An upper intake for EFI will work on anyof the three, but the the lower
intake (or just plain intake for a carb) won't fit on both a 351 and
302. Its a fact, the ad you saw is wrong...
>
> 335 Series <335s...@my-deja.com> wrote in article
> <85l1ka$7rs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > In article <01bf5ddd$91277120$6400a8c0@matt>,
> > "Matt Hamby" <m_h...@batpa.com> wrote:
> > > I think you're thinking of the 351c.
> >
> > No, he's right, the 351C you are thinking of is a totally different
> > animal. The 351W is wider between the heads and requires an 351
> > specific intake <lower intake for you EFI guys>
> >
> > >
> > > Mike <mpo...@aol.com> wrote in article
> > > <20000113022211...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
> > > > >The 351W uses the same motor mounts as a 302, and uses the same
> > > bell-housing
> > > > >bolt pattern, so the swap from a 302 to a 351W is simple.
There
> > are
> > > > >specific details with regard to exhaust, water pump inlet,
> > accessory
> > > > >brackets and flywheels
> > > >
> > > > Also please be aware that the 351 is wider, and requires a 351w
> > specific
> > > > intake.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > > 91 5L LX Convertible -converted AOD-T5 and lovin' it!
> > > > 86 LX Hatch Soon to be 2.3L Turbo/Intercooled
> > > > 86 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe - 5-Speed
> > > > <a href="http://members.aol.com/mpompe2/main.html">Mike's
Page</a>
> > > >
> > >
> >
Whole Lotta Tom
the 302, 351W and 351C. So do I.
--
Tom
T/S #3
"Li'l Thunder '58"
See it here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/
Matt Hamby <m_h...@batpa.com> wrote in message
news:01bf5ddd$91277120$6400a8c0@matt...
> I think you're thinking of the 351c.
>
Mike
>
>I think you are mistaken. mpompe2 knows very well the differences between
>the 302, 351W and 351C. So do I.
>
:-)...I hope I do! For those interested, I have a pic of the "clevor" we just
got done with. It's a mock up in the bay of the 84 LX it'll reside in, but the
motor's done. E Mail me and I 'll send it.
D.Bloomfield
same thing, but they are not the same block. They are about the same
physical size but that's where it stops. the parts aren't interchangeable.
as for the upgrade, good luck with it. But they are both really great
engines. D.B.
335 Series
>In article <Snsf4.35$_e4....@nnrp1-w.snfc21.pbi.net>,
> ho...@extremejeep.com (Hogan Whittall) wrote:
>A local shop (Mustang Ranch) has
> a guy by the name of Rod, he's got a 65/66 with a 351w in it that he
>road
> races at the local tracks. If you want to give him a call, the shop
># is
> 408-247-9005. Great guys down there, but a bit pricey for certain
> things.
Yeah I will second that, Rod is a nice guy, and was always willing to
take time to talk me through my ideas.
But, I would amend your second statement (based on what I have seen)
They are expensive on everything :-( (except the dyno pullls) They
wanted $450 to install a set of subframes connectors on my car. He will
only touch Global West (and wanted $50 more than GW was willing to sell
them for) Plus 225 for installation! That is just nuts....
I took them to my bodyshop and had a guy familiar with them install
them for 20 and a case of beer...
> He should at least be able to give you an idea of parts and >cost
> if you tell him what you have. They do 5spd conversions and all sort
>of
> stuff, so they should have a fairly good idea. Also have a website
> (recently updated) at http://www.mustangranch.org/
I just hope Nina has a load of cash in the wallet :-)
>
> Good luck!
Hey Hogan, did you ever get your car dyno`d?
>
> --
> --
> Hogan Whittall
Hogan Whittall
>
> >In article <Snsf4.35$_e4....@nnrp1-w.snfc21.pbi.net>,
> > ho...@extremejeep.com (Hogan Whittall) wrote:
> >A local shop (Mustang Ranch) has
> > a guy by the name of Rod, he's got a 65/66 with a 351w in it that he
> >road
> > races at the local tracks. If you want to give him a call, the shop
> ># is
> > 408-247-9005. Great guys down there, but a bit pricey for certain
> > things.
>
> They are expensive on everything :-( (except the dyno pullls) They
> wanted $450 to install a set of subframes connectors on my car. He will
> only touch Global West (and wanted $50 more than GW was willing to sell
> them for) Plus 225 for installation! That is just nuts....
> I took them to my bodyshop and had a guy familiar with them install
> them for 20 and a case of beer...
You know what's strange, is I hear from some late-model guys around here
that they tend to be more expensive for the later stuff...? I dunno',
that's why I like options. So far I don't know of many. The other place
I've considered having things done I'm not equipped for is Bruno's right
down the street. The guys look like ZZ Top and they have a nice Charger
R/T six pack in the parking lot, but still, they charge $70/hr for labor
which is $5/hr less then the guys at Mustang Ranch. I can't complain too
much, Rod and the gang have helped me out a lot.
Next major job is having the top-loader rebuilt. Around $600 parts and
labor if I bring the tranny to them, extra $200 for them to take it out
for me. (They being Sticks Unlimited) I'd rather go that route and have
it done right then spend the money on a used top-loader that I have no
idea how long it'll last...
> Hey Hogan, did you ever get your car dyno`d?
>
Not yet, I was planning on doing it Saturday but something else came up,
so I'll make an appointment to do it next week. Tomorrow (today) is
payday and I was broke last paycheck. :) Wish me luck! Baseline dyno
sheet coming to a webpage near you soon...
--
--
Hogan Whittall
335 Series
Have you tried Mustangs only on old oakland road (13th street) in S.J.?
They are right off 101. Expensive as all hell, but they are fairly
knowledgable about stock stuff and always have the strange parts when I
need them... like the rear brake flex hose... or the lower conrola arm
eccentrics....
> The other place
> I've considered having things done I'm not equipped for is Bruno's
right
> down the street. The guys look like ZZ Top and they have a nice
Charger
> R/T six pack in the parking lot, but still, they charge $70/hr for
labor
> which is $5/hr less then the guys at Mustang Ranch. I can't complain
too
> much,
Never heard of them, is it general auto work or just classic stuff?
> Rod and the gang have helped me out a lot.
Oh for sure, I wasn't meaning to slamm them, just some stuff they are
wickedly expensive on...
>
> Next major job is having the top-loader rebuilt. Around $600 parts
and
> labor if I bring the tranny to them, extra $200 for them to take it
out
> for me. (They being Sticks Unlimited) I'd rather go that route and
have
> it done right then spend the money on a used top-loader that I have no
> idea how long it'll last...
What was that? a T-5 conversion? What was that? A tremec? Even better!!
Great Idea Hogan!! -)
>
> > Hey Hogan, did you ever get your car dyno`d?
> >
>
> Not yet, I was planning on doing it Saturday but something else came
up,
> so I'll make an appointment to do it next week. Tomorrow (today) is
> payday and I was broke last paycheck. :) Wish me luck! Baseline
dyno
> sheet coming to a webpage near you soon...
>
Good luck, let me know how the whole experience goes, I will be doing
it myself soon enough..
Hogan Whittall
>
> Have you tried Mustangs only on old oakland road (13th street) in S.J.?
> They are right off 101. Expensive as all hell, but they are fairly
> knowledgable about stock stuff and always have the strange parts when I
> need them... like the rear brake flex hose... or the lower conrola arm
> eccentrics....
>
I'll have to check them out. I wish I could find a place that does
general work and also knows a lot about classic Mustangs. Specialized
shops are always such a wallet sucker.
> > The other place
> > I've considered having things done I'm not equipped for is Bruno's
> right
> > down the street. The guys look like ZZ Top and they have a nice
> Charger
> > R/T six pack in the parking lot, but still, they charge $70/hr for
> labor
> > which is $5/hr less then the guys at Mustang Ranch. I can't complain
> too
> > much,
>
> Never heard of them, is it general auto work or just classic stuff?
General, mostly older stuff though. Back when I had the problematic
Holley on the car, I tried tuning it in but just couldn't get it right so
I took it down there and they did some tweaks and did some more checking
with it, turned out to be multiple things wrong but they didn't charge me
anything, however they offered to rebuild it for $400. ;) That's when I
went down and got an Edelbrock. At the time it was more important to have
a properly running car with the least downtime since my primary car had
expired reg. and no brakes. ;) Maybe Sunday I'll rebuild the Holley and
sell it. No use to me just sitting.
>
> > Rod and the gang have helped me out a lot.
>
> Oh for sure, I wasn't meaning to slamm them, just some stuff they are
> wickedly expensive on...
>
'67 motor mounts, $90/ea...*cough*... ;)
>
> What was that? a T-5 conversion? What was that? A tremec? Even better!!
> Great Idea Hogan!! -)
>
haha, I wish. :) What's that? You'll give me $2000 so I can do
it? Sweet!
>
> Good luck, let me know how the whole experience goes, I will be doing
> it myself soon enough..
>
Called and made the appt. today, going down Tuesday morning to have it
done. Just the baseline for now, I still have some exhaust issues that
need to be dealt with before I start doing the air/fuel monitoring dyno
runs and tweaking. Should get a good run, though. I'll keep ya posted!
--
--
Hogan Whittall
335 Series
ho...@extremejeep.com (Hogan Whittall) wrote:
> 335 Series (335s...@my-deja.com) wrote:
> >
> > Have you tried Mustangs only on old oakland road (13th street) in
S.J.?
> > They are right off 101. Expensive as all hell, but they are fairly
> > knowledgable about stock stuff and always have the strange parts
when I
> > need them... like the rear brake flex hose... or the lower conrola
arm
> > eccentrics....
> >
>
> I'll have to check them out. I wish I could find a place that does
> general work and also knows a lot about classic Mustangs. Specialized
> shops are always such a wallet sucker.
>
Always....
True, I used to have a holley on my car,and I rebuilt it and toyed with
it to the point where I had decent power, but I could never get it
right, I bolted on an Edelbrock and it idled better, ran stronger, and
got better mileage.. oh well...
> >
> > > Rod and the gang have helped me out a lot.
> >
> > Oh for sure, I wasn't meaning to slamm them, just some stuff they
are
> > wickedly expensive on...
> >
>
> '67 motor mounts, $90/ea...*cough*... ;)
>
LOL yup..
> >
> > What was that? a T-5 conversion? What was that? A tremec? Even
better!!
> > Great Idea Hogan!! -)
> >
>
> haha, I wish. :) What's that? You'll give me $2000 so I can do
> it? Sweet!
>
Sure :-) good luck, if I ahd 2K to spend on my car, my cleveland would
be hardware instead of vaporware or I mght have a t-5 to replace my
c-4 ..one or the other...
> >
> > Good luck, let me know how the whole experience goes, I will be
doing
> > it myself soon enough..
> >
>
> Called and made the appt. today, going down Tuesday morning to have it
> done. Just the baseline for now, I still have some exhaust issues
that
> need to be dealt with before I start doing the air/fuel monitoring
dyno
> runs and tweaking. Should get a good run, though. I'll keep ya
> posted!
cool, thanx
Whole Lotta Tom
bellhousing bolt pattern as the 302, and uses the same motor mounts. I
assume your 302 is from the 60's or 70s, and uses the 28 ounce imbalance.
Use a 70's 351W and you should have no problems. Well, the water pump lower
hose is on the driver's side on the 351W, so you need to be sure your
radiator is that way or have a shop fix it for you.
--
Tom
T/S #3
"Li'l Thunder '58"
See it here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/
Nina <riz...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:387E4C63...@swbell.net...
> Hi,
>
> I have a 66 mustang with a 302 in it. It has a 5 spd tranny from an 86
> mustang. I want to upgrade to a 351 W after this summer, and was
wondering
> how much the cost and what I would need to do the upgrade?? Thanks!!!
>
Thomas Roberts
engines, nearly everything is compatible. I swapped my 302 for a 351W
and it's pretty painless. If your starting with a 88 and up mass-air
5.0 mustang, the computer won't even know the difference.
The major differences lie in the deck height, cam base circle, and
crank. Of course the balance is a little different too. Aftermarket
5.0 heads, and accessories bolt up. You'll need a 351W specific lower
intake manifold, I used the Edelbrock Truck EFI piece with a Performer
5.0 upper intake. Other 351W specific parts you'll need are headers,
air injection tube, distributor, crank balancer, flex plate/flywheel,
and 351W swap accessory bracket from Ford Motorsport. Of course, the
engine will be a little taller, so count on a cowl hood to clear it.
Oh, if you use aluminum heads & intake the engine will weigh about the
same as a 5.0 with stock cast iron heads. Put in a better radiator and
an electric fan to keep the beast cool.