My 95 GT cuts off while I'm driving...
bur...@hiwaay.net
I was hoping some of you guys could help. This is sort of a
long description, so bear with me here...
When I go to work in the morning, I start up the car cold and
it runs perfectly. A few minutes into the drive, the engine may
shut off (its an intermitent problem). Sharply. I can be cruising,
accelerating, braking, or idling. It doensn't matter. The tack shoots
down to zero and stays there.
I can restart the car simply by leaving it in gear
(if I'm driving) or by pressing the clutch and releasing
it. It will restart in a second or two that way. BUT,
it will not restart if it happens to cut off when the
car is idling (say, if I'm waiting at a traffic light).
The starter motor works perfectly; the engine turns over
fine but it won't start. The only way to start the car
if it quits while idling is to wait 15 minutes or so.
After about that amount of time, it starts with no problem.
Sometimes, if I'm driving, the engine will shut off and turn
back on itself very quickly. Like in less than a second. It
causes the car to lurch forward, but its smooth sailing afterwards.
Like I said, its an intermitent problem. However, I think
an important clue is that it seems to always happen after
a cold start (say, in the morning after sitting in the garage
all night) about 10 minutes into the drive. Its always about
10 minutes after a cold start. I know this because I drive the
same way to work every day and it happens in about the same
place each time. But otherwise it seems random.
I took the car to the local Ford dealer Monday the 1st. They
hooked it to their diagnostic machine and everything looked
perfect. They took it for a test drive and sure enough it stalled
on them too. They hooked a flight recorder to it and measured
data while they drove. The result was that everything worked
perfectly until it looked like the power was cut off all of
a sudden. In other words, no information was yeilded by the
recorder. The dealer kept the car through Thursday the 4th,
testing it each day and taking new data. What we all wondered
was: what's the difference between starting the engine from
the clutch (rolling start) versus starting with it by turning
the key?
We ruled out the fuel pump, because a fuel pump failure would
cause a more gradual engine failure. This is like the ignition
is shut off. For the same reason we ruled out the fuel filter.
We ruled out the coil because it checked out ok, and and the
10 minute thing suggests that it might be a thermal thing.
I'm not totally convinced of that, though. They (as I am) are
convinced that its an electrical problem. But its very hard
to pinpoint.
The technician at the shop figured it might be the MAF sensor.
Upon closer examination of the diagnostic data, there were
occasional downward spikes in the MAF signal. Right before
a failure, there was a series of spikes. I don't know why
it took them so long to see that!
So yesterday (Thurs) they swapped the MAF with another and I retook
possession of the car. I drove it from the shop to work, and later
from work to home without incident. This morning, when I drove
it to work it *again* stalled at about 10 minutes into the drive.
I plan on pulling out a voltmeter and jiggling some wires this
weekend. Maybe its just a bad cable or wire harness.
If anyone has experienced a problem like this and solved it,
I'd *REALLY* like to hear from you. Or if you have any ideas
or thoughts, please post them.
Thanks,
Paul
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Henry H Hansteen
: If anyone has experienced a problem like this and solved it,
: I'd *REALLY* like to hear from you. Or if you have any ideas
: or thoughts, please post them.
I had a problem *exactly* the same as the one you described with
my '93 Ranger with a 3.0 V6. After stalling, it would crank fine
but not restart, although bump starting would work every time.
After replacing the $70 ignition control module, cap, rotor
and wires, I still had the same problem. Turns out the stator,
which is in the distibutor was the problem. I had to pull the
distibutor and remove the gear on the end of the dist. shaft to
change it, but it hasn't stalled since. I don't know if the dist.
on the 5.0s has the same setup or not, but it might be worth
looking into.
Henry
Kevin McEvoy
Henry H Hansteen wrote:
> bur...@hiwaay.net wrote:
>
> : If anyone has experienced a problem like this and solved it,
> : I'd *REALLY* like to hear from you. Or if you have any ideas
> : or thoughts, please post them.
>
>
I am experiencing the exact problem you describe in my 89 lx 5.0. I've
had it in the three different shops, one was a Ford dealer. Nobody could
figure it out. Before taking it to a mechanic I replaced the module, and
stator. One mechanic tried another MAF, put in a new fuel pump and tried
another module but nothing fixed it. I'm installing a new(used) computer
tomorrow in the hopes that it will fix it. Oddly though it seemed that
anytime a part was replaced the car would run fine for two or three days
then start acting up again after the car warmed up. Please let me know
if you get your problem resolved and I'll be sure to let you know if
this new computer fixes it.
Good luck.
Kevin McEvoy
http://home.earthlink.net/~kjmcevoy/
m124
two turbos on a 79 Cobra because of the things. When it abrutly came back
on, the backfire would blow the blades off the turbine. Buy a good one,
they are not too expensive.
bur...@hiwaay.net wrote:
> If anyone has experienced a problem like this and solved it,
> I'd *REALLY* like to hear from you. Or if you have any ideas
> or thoughts, please post them.
>
Bryan Chubb
of searching, I found the *gravity switch* to the gas pump to be faulty. I
am not sure exactly what it is called, but it is a switch that is intended
to cut power to the fuel pump if the car gets in a wreck and is turned.
In my hatchback it is near the latch to the hatch back in a covered hole in
the plastic form. I am sure it will vary on the more recent models.
The part is a simple black box with a metal ball in a cone shaped container.
A magnet holds the ball to the bottom of the cone and completes the circuit.
I fixed the problem by disassembling the part and nudging the magnet closer
to the ball.
This may not be the problem, but it is less expensive than experimenting
with new parts.
Paul Burns
Thanks for the replies. I wrote down all the inputs that
were emailed or posted here. I hate to say this, but I'm
sort of glad I'm not the only one with this problem. ;)
6 different people said they had the exact same problem, but
they solved it in different ways. One guy (with the 3.0 Ranger)
fixed it by swapping the stator in the distributor. But at least
2 other people found it to be the safety fuel cutoff switch in
the trunk. My car has the same switch in the trunk.
Several people still haven't been able to pinpoint the problem.
Yesterday when I was driving home from work, the car stalled
while I was going about 40mph. But I couldn't roll-start it!!
That's the first time that has happened. I wonder if something
else broke. The car is back at the dealer now so I'll be sure
to pass all of this info along to them.
As soon as I get it resolved, I'll post the fix here for the
benefit of those having the same prob.
Paul
A.J. LoCicero
have never seen one malfunction internally. I have seen loose connections to
them, and melting from excess fuel pump amperage draw, but in this case,
odds are against it being the culprit. (When pump quits, car looses power
and sputters till it either stalls or recivers when power is restored)
The author of the original message reported some interesting symptons that
may help narrow this down.
1) Push starting works, and cranking with the starter doesn't.
2) Car cuts off & turns on in less than a second.
3) EEC system is not popping codes.
IMHO I feel you may have a problem with the EEC relay, or its associated
wiring.
Here is my logic:
EEC Relay supplies power to the processor (CPU) and all output actuators, as
well as power to the MAF. The examaming technicians found a drop in MAF
readings (EEC Relay quit for an instant. When this happens, the computer
gets powered down too, therefore no codes in memory). Assuming this is an
EEC IV system, I believe the CPU doesn't monitor EEC relay supply voltage.
The only piece of the puzzle that does not fit in the above scenario is
the key vs push start bit, but it could be coincidence.
My second angle of attack, taking into account the missing piece of the
puzzle from above, would be to thouroughly examine the ignition switch for
signs of overheating. This would cause all the problems listed above (guess
what tells the EEC relay when to power the CPU up? Thats right! Ignition
switch position.) , in addition to ignition system power loss, AND complete
the puzzle (crank position vs run position of ignition switch). When power
is lost to the coil and TFI module, and then quickly restored, on hell of a
'bump' will be felt in the drive line if the cruising conditions are right.
Of course I may be totally wrong, and have been in the past, but I
encourage Burnspd to at least mention this info to the examining
technicians. I did work as a Ford Driveability Technician from 85 (started
at 18 years of age) to 93, and I am Ford certified in EEC-IV and SBDS
operation and still hold valid ASE certification in all auto areas except
transmixers and rear ends, although I'm currently in a different occupation.
Burnspd, we may continue this thru email if you wish.
Bryan Chubb wrote in message ...
JD & Mona
that was the cause. If nothing else, you could rule it out in your
search for the true cause.
JD
Jerry Steele
related items including relay (but more on that).
I'm also inclined towards thinking the main EEC relay is failing.
Temperature could be a factor in a marginal relay. And, if failing,
cranking voltage is lower than push starting voltage so a marginal relay
might operate better in a push start.
I mention this because I've had numerous experiences with fuel system
failure, and it NEVER causes a sudden, total power loss without giving
other symptoms like at least one hiccup, backfire or something.
On the other hand, my EEC relay failure was dead city.
Now, if the EEC relay is tiring with age, it might be good practice to
install another fuel pump relay as well as they are similar designs.
The relays shouldn't be hard to find. I found the EEC relay at a Big A
Auto Parts in Moab Utah in stock! Although I favor OEM parts, even at
their extra cost for these kinds of things.
I would simply replace the relay. You can take the lid off the old one
and see if any deterioration is visible such as corrosion, burning on
the coil, etc.
Hope I've helped.
Jerry Steele
His:
97 Mustang GT
77 Bronco with '90 5.0 HO MA SEFI and tons more
Hers:
98 Escort ZX2
89 Wrangler with '96 Ford 5.8 truck EFI with Mass-Air and tons more