92 Explorer; 5-speed trans. fell apart; should Ford pay?
Bryan Cass
Hiya friends. :) I'm seeking advice on what to do with our 92 Explorer XLT
4x4. On a trip last week, the manual transmission froze in 4th gear (with
clutch in or out). The transmission shop said that it "fell apart inside"
and that the synchros had worn so that the gears went "too far" and hung
up, and is fixing it to the tune of $1400 parts, $300 labor (plus I'm
having a new clutch put in for $250).
Now, this seems like premature part failure to me, at only 60K miles;
especially for a manual transmission, and especially since there was no
maintenance I could have done to prevent this failure. And we use the
truck as a family vehicle, with only about 600 miles total of towing a 1250
lb. camper.
Should Ford pay for at least part of this bill?? I can't imagine that this
is "normal life" for the tranny. And I'm even more skeptical because of
all the other extensive repairs done on this truck (front end
bushings/springs, exhaust system, rear window seal, locking hubs, brakes,
etc, etc).
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to pursue getting some action
from Ford on this? The dealer says it's far enough out of warranty that
I'd have to go to the "national level", whatever that is.
Thanks!
Robert Finley
In article <01bb9e5c$83eabec0$2bf1...@cass.idx.com>,
Bryan Cass <ca...@idx.com> wrote:
>Hiya friends. :) I'm seeking advice on what to do with our 92 Explorer XLT
>4x4. On a trip last week, the manual transmission froze in 4th gear (with
>clutch in or out). The transmission shop said that it "fell apart inside"
>and that the synchros had worn so that the gears went "too far" and hung
>up, and is fixing it to the tune of $1400 parts, $300 labor (plus I'm
>having a new clutch put in for $250).
>
>Now, this seems like premature part failure to me, at only 60K miles;
>especially for a manual transmission, and especially since there was no
>maintenance I could have done to prevent this failure. And we use the
>truck as a family vehicle, with only about 600 miles total of towing a 1250
>lb. camper.
>
>Should Ford pay for at least part of this bill?? I can't imagine that this
>is "normal life" for the tranny. And I'm even more skeptical because of
>all the other extensive repairs done on this truck (front end
>bushings/springs, exhaust system, rear window seal, locking hubs, brakes,
>etc, etc).
Please let us know what you find out. ($300 labor? Wow! They charged me that
much just to take the transmission out!)
The dealer that rebuilt my tranny at first couldn't diagnose the hard shifting
but suddenly said (after disassembly) "Oh Yeah. The famous Mazda Slave Cylinder
problem. We have rebuilt about 20 of these transmissions at about 60K miles
(small town in the midwest. pop. 40K)".
I believe that what REALLY happened is that the slave cylinder (a $137.73 part) failed
for good. It is part of the "self-adjusting" system that Mazda bestowed upon us.
You were stuck in fourth gear because you couldn't disengage the clutch.
Parts I destroyed: Two drive shafts with lots of gears on them: $329 and $171.
Those synchronizer things are $105 apiece... and $100 in synchro rings and $100 in bearing
assemblies.
*********************FLAME ON**********************
(sarcasm on)
Thank you. Ford. I really appreciate that you and your dealers keep quiet about a
$137.73 part that is failing in thousands of your trucks all over the world.
I just love the idea that all I want for Christmas is a '97 so that I can
walk away from the $3,500 in repairs I have spent so far in '96.
(sarcasm off)
(heavy sarcasm on)
I heard a rumor that there was a Ford TSB on this problem.
Thank you, Ford, and your dealers. It helped me a lot...
I rest easy KNOWING that if I had spent $500 to replace
that cylinder a year ago, I would have saved myself more than $1K in repairs.
(heavy sarcasm off)
*********************FLAME OFF*********************
The good news is: They don't use that transmission in anything anymore. When I tried
to find one new or salvage, people suddenly got very rude...
OBTW:
Have you had the front U-joints replaced yet? The hubs can self-destruct again if the
joints are worn out. (Different dealer. Same ignorance.) The symptom of that is they
can become partially engaged while 2WD maneuvering(sp?) in parking lots. Nice Grinding
Sound that magically goes away when you engage 4WD. B-)
------------------
I speak for myself, not for my employer..
Phil Rose
In article <01bb9e5c$83eabec0$2bf1...@CASS.idx.com>, "Bryan Cass"
<ca...@idx.com> wrote:
> Hiya friends. :) I'm seeking advice on what to do with our 92 Explorer XLT
> 4x4. On a trip last week, the manual transmission froze in 4th gear (with
> clutch in or out). The transmission shop said that it "fell apart inside"
> and that the synchros had worn so that the gears went "too far" and hung
> up, and is fixing it to the tune of $1400 parts, $300 labor (plus I'm
> having a new clutch put in for $250).
>
> Now, this seems like premature part failure to me, at only 60K miles;
> especially for a manual transmission, and especially since there was no
> maintenance I could have done to prevent this failure. And we use the
> truck as a family vehicle, with only about 600 miles total of towing a 1250
> lb. camper.
>
> Should Ford pay for at least part of this bill??
Did you have something in your purchase agreement that I didn't have?
*Should* Ford pay? IMO, probably NO. But *will* Ford pay? Well anything's
possible. And it can't do any harm to ask.
>I can't imagine that this is "normal life" for the tranny.
No, not on average; I'd think it could last 2 or 3 times that long, but
it's easily possible to abuse a manual transmission and cause it to fail
prematurely. Doesn't need a lot of towing, just poor (or impatient)
shifting technique. I'm *not* trying to say that must have happened to
you. But from Ford's point of view, it's a component that *could* have had
enough day-to-day abuse over 60,000 miles to cause failure.
--
Phil Rose
Peter Lovejoy
In article <01bb9e5c$83eabec0$2bf1...@CASS.idx.com>, ca...@idx.com says...
>
>Hiya friends. :) I'm seeking advice on what to do with our 92 Explorer XLT
>4x4. On a trip last week, the manual transmission froze in 4th gear (with
>clutch in or out). The transmission shop said that it "fell apart inside"
>and that the synchros had worn so that the gears went "too far" and hung
>up, and is fixing it to the tune of $1400 parts, $300 labor (plus I'm
>having a new clutch put in for $250).
This exact problem happend on my '92 with about 70K on it, about 6 weeks after I bought
the rig -- and no, it wasn't under warrenty. I talked to the dealer, and he agreed to
split the repair bill, which was around $800 if I recall. So, I suggest you at least
ask.
Peter
--
The opinions expressed in this message are my own personal views
and do not reflect the official views of Microsoft Corporation.
Rick Horwitz
I had my Explorer's manual trans rebuilt once at 34,000 miles again at
50,000 miles and now it's shifting poorly at 78,000 miles. Ford won't
even sell the transmission as a complete unit they will only rebuild
what you have. At least thats what I was told by the parts manager at my
local Ford dealer.
From what I have heard from other people I would say what you paid is
about average for repairs. It sure a pain to have to rebuild a
transmission at 35,000 miles. I have driven stick shift for 18 years and
have never had to have any service done to a manual transmission before
this Explorer.
Even though the Explorer has been plagued by numerous recalls, TSBs
covering all sorts of nasty stuff and documented major problems it
continues to be the best selling SUVon the market. Oh well..
Chris 'Wombat' Crowell
The transmission on my 92 Explorer (same as yours) "burned up" (froze in
4th gear) at 42k, of easy hiway driving. Ford agreed to put $500 into the
repair, which left me with $800 to pay. I recently had the PLASTIC
transmission plugs replaced with metal ones on the advice of the mechanic,
so that could have been a reason why there was no fluid in the 1st
tranny. Also, someone had jammed a small bolt into the vent hole so the
fluid was boiling out.
--
Any opinions expressed here are mine and not EA's. And boy, do I got me some opinions...
Wombat
Steven Winters
Phil Rose (pjr...@servtech.com) wrote:
: In article <01bb9e5c$83eabec0$2bf1...@CASS.idx.com>, "Bryan Cass"
: <ca...@idx.com> wrote:
: > Hiya friends. :) I'm seeking advice on what to do with our 92 Explorer XLT
: > 4x4. On a trip last week, the manual transmission froze in 4th gear (with
: > clutch in or out). The transmission shop said that it "fell apart inside"
: > and that the synchros had worn so that the gears went "too far" and hung
: > up, and is fixing it to the tune of $1400 parts, $300 labor (plus I'm
: > having a new clutch put in for $250).
: >
: > Now, this seems like premature part failure to me, at only 60K miles;
: > especially for a manual transmission, and especially since there was no
: > maintenance I could have done to prevent this failure. And we use the
: > truck as a family vehicle, with only about 600 miles total of towing a 1250
: > lb. camper.
: >
: > Should Ford pay for at least part of this bill??
: Did you have something in your purchase agreement that I didn't have?
: *Should* Ford pay? IMO, probably NO. But *will* Ford pay? Well anything's
: possible. And it can't do any harm to ask.
: >I can't imagine that this is "normal life" for the tranny.
: No, not on average; I'd think it could last 2 or 3 times that long, but
: it's easily possible to abuse a manual transmission and cause it to fail
: prematurely. Doesn't need a lot of towing, just poor (or impatient)
: shifting technique. I'm *not* trying to say that must have happened to
: you. But from Ford's point of view, it's a component that *could* have had
: enough day-to-day abuse over 60,000 miles to cause failure.
: --
: Phil Rose
Brian,
If you didn't get an extended warrentee, you're most likely out of luck.
When the 3-speed tranny in my old 77 Chevy C10 wore out at 110K miles,
the shop I took it to found a junkyard tranny for about $250. It's lasted
for 60K miles so far.
Good luck,
Steve
82 Z28 305 4-speed 175K miles, tranny cuold use rebuild, still works
96 K1500 350 5-speed 8K miles should last a long time
weinberg
Rick Horwitz wrote:
>
> I had my Explorer's manual trans rebuilt once at 34,000 miles again at
> 50,000 miles and now it's shifting poorly at 78,000 miles. Ford won't
> even sell the transmission as a complete unit they will only rebuild
> what you have. At least thats what I was told by the parts manager at my
> local Ford dealer.
[some stuff snipped]
Re: Explorer manual trans: When I accepted delivery of my 1994 Navajo 5-speed,
the mechanic told me to get out of the habit of resting my hand in the stick
shift knob. He said that because it is a (too) "lightweight" tranny for the
truck, that leaning my hand on the stick (and not letting it do it's
natural vibration thing) while cruising, could prematurely wear the synchros.
Is this truth or horse-pucky?
Sharon
s.wei...@lilly.com
Craig Williams
weinberg <s.wei...@lilly.com> wrote:
>Re: Explorer manual trans: When I accepted delivery of my 1994 Navajo 5-speed,
>the mechanic told me to get out of the habit of resting my hand in the stick
>shift knob. He said that because it is a (too) "lightweight" tranny for the
>truck, that leaning my hand on the stick (and not letting it do it's
>natural vibration thing) while cruising, could prematurely wear the synchros.
>Is this truth or horse-pucky?
'Tis the truth, Sharon, for all cars with a stick shift.
--
Craig Williams, Flagstaff AZ Internet: crai...@primenet.com
Amateur Radio: KC8BGV ICBM: 35 5'35" N 111 42'2" W
--
Phil Rose
> Rick Horwitz wrote:
> >
> > I had my Explorer's manual trans rebuilt once at 34,000 miles again at
> > 50,000 miles and now it's shifting poorly at 78,000 miles. Ford won't
> > even sell the transmission as a complete unit they will only rebuild
> > what you have. At least thats what I was told by the parts manager at my
> > local Ford dealer.
>
> [some stuff snipped]
>
> Re: Explorer manual trans: When I accepted delivery of my 1994 Navajo
5-speed,
> the mechanic told me to get out of the habit of resting my hand in the stick
> shift knob. He said that because it is a (too) "lightweight" tranny for the
> truck, that leaning my hand on the stick (and not letting it do it's
> natural vibration thing) while cruising, could prematurely wear the
synchros.
> Is this truth or horse-pucky?
I'm not sure in the case of Explorer, but years ago when I was SAABing,
"don't rest your hand on the gearshift knob" was standard advice from the
ownersgroup newsletter (nah, I don't think it was called "SAAB Stories",
but it could'a been :^).
--
Phil Rose
James Higgins
Bryan Cass wrote:
>
> Hiya friends. :) I'm seeking advice on what to do with our 92 Explorer XLT
> 4x4. On a trip last week, the manual transmission froze in 4th gear (with
> clutch in or out). The transmission shop said that it "fell apart inside"
> and that the synchros had worn so that the gears went "too far" and hung
> up, and is fixing it to the tune of $1400 parts, $300 labor (plus I'm
> having a new clutch put in for $250).
>
> Now, this seems like premature part failure to me, at only 60K miles;
> especially for a manual transmission, and especially since there was no
> maintenance I could have done to prevent this failure. And we use the
> truck as a family vehicle, with only about 600 miles total of towing a 1250
> lb. camper.
>
> is "normal life" for the tranny. And I'm even more skeptical because of
> all the other extensive repairs done on this truck (front end
> bushings/springs, exhaust system, rear window seal, locking hubs, brakes,
> etc, etc).
>
> from Ford on this? The dealer says it's far enough out of warranty that
> I'd have to go to the "national level", whatever that is.
>
> Thanks!
Hi Bryan,
My 92 Explorer (with the Mazda-built 5 speed trans) had the same
problem. BUT, at about 20k, well withing warranty. And Fixed by dealer
at no charge. I did learn at that time that this was not a random
problem with this trans - there were others that had come in with same
problem.
There was at least 1 Tech Service Bulletin on this: BC0190911221
(Dec 91). I seem to recall getting something from a mechanic that they
may have had an assembly problem, corrected in later 92 models?
It sounds as if you are not at a dealer but at a private repair shop.
I think you might have a better shot at getting Ford to cover part of
the repair if you were at a Ford dealer. Mention the service bulletin,
ask them to look it up, question why these transes were having this 4th
gear lockup problem, etc.
On the other hand, if you go to the dealer and Ford does NOT cover
part of the repair, you may be paying 30 percent more for the repair.
Although I agree that 60k is premature for a trans failure, you are out
of warranty, or (if they are still "covering" this problem on the "QT")
you are not at their authorized dealer.
Kind of like gambling, isn't it?
Good luck,
Jim Higgins
James Higgins
BaltoVACS
Our 92 5speed went up at 74000 and the dealer was suppose to have checked
it only about 1000miles earlier. (I posted a meesge about it around 15
july 96 but did not get nearly the response you have) We are still trying
to settle with the dealer but in the mean while I did send a letter of
complaint to Alex Trotman, CEO of Ford.
Alex Trotman
Chairman of the Board
President and Chief Executive Officer
Ford Motor Company
The American Road
Dearborn, Michigan 48121
George Karas
> My 92 Explorer (with the Mazda-built 5 speed trans) had the same
> problem. BUT, at about 20k, well withing warranty. And Fixed by dealer
> at no charge. I did learn at that time that this was not a random
> problem with this trans - there were others that had come in with same
> problem.
>
> There was at least 1 Tech Service Bulletin on this: BC0190911221
> (Dec 91). I seem to recall getting something from a mechanic that they
> may have had an assembly problem, corrected in later 92 models?
>
> Although I agree that 60k is premature for a trans failure, you are out
> of warranty, or (if they are still "covering" this problem on the "QT")
> you are not at their authorized dealer.
>
> Kind of like gambling, isn't it?
>
> Good luck,
> Jim Higgins
>
Is this the same Mazda-built, hard-shifting, barely synchronized, 5 speed
piece of shit that is in my 95 F-150??? Mine needed to be repaired at
13000 miles! I have been drive manual gearbox vehicles of all types for 25
years and never had any failures or wear related repairs done. The Ford
mechanic said, "duh, I dunno, maybe you shift too fast!"
Geo.
Vicki Mulford
>> My 92 Explorer (with the Mazda-built 5 speed trans) had the same
>> problem. BUT, at about 20k, well withing warranty. And Fixed by dealer
>Is this the same Mazda-built, hard-shifting, barely synchronized, 5 speed
>piece of shit that is in my 95 F-150??? Mine needed to be repaired at
I had to replace the transmission on my Navajo at 51,000 miles. Just
up and broke apart on the freeway one day without warning, I mean,
none. Got so solly cholly from Mazda. But I understand that the
transmission in my vehicle is a Ford part, which has some design
problems. Anyone know different about this?
__________________________________________
I don't care if your name IS Erle Stanley,
get your rake out of my petunias!
__________________________________________
Robert Finley
In article <52a4o1$a...@alpine.psnw.com>, Vicki Mulford <vic...@psnw.com> wrote:
>>> My 92 Explorer (with the Mazda-built 5 speed trans) had the same
>>> problem. BUT, at about 20k, well withing warranty. And Fixed by dealer
>
>>Is this the same Mazda-built, hard-shifting, barely synchronized, 5 speed
>>piece of shit that is in my 95 F-150??? Mine needed to be repaired at
>
>I had to replace the transmission on my Navajo at 51,000 miles. Just
>up and broke apart on the freeway one day without warning, I mean,
>none. Got so solly cholly from Mazda. But I understand that the
>transmission in my vehicle is a Ford part, which has some design
>problems. Anyone know different about this?
It's a Mazda P.O.S., for sure. I don't really know who is responsible for
the Engine design (that part hasn't failed me yet) except that I read
in an auto magazine that it was a European design.
Did you have the hydraulic fluid bled down periodically so that
moisture woudn't get in and start destroying the slave cylinder inside
the transmission? (the doodad that moves the clutch in and out, hopefully...)?
(Funny, the manual doesn't mention bleeding down any hydraulics. F***ers.)
Neither did I.
(Thanks, Dr. Bob)
I am keeping my Extorter because I still love driving it, I can't afford
to trade right now (after paying about $4k this year in repairs), and
I don't know what else to buy except another Extorter. (Like that name
better than Exploder... Bad Karma? B-) Camry? 4-Runner? Sigh...
Robert
Steve Offiler
In article <52a4o1$a...@alpine.psnw.com> vic...@psnw.com (Vicki Mulford) writes:
>From: vic...@psnw.com (Vicki Mulford)
>Subject: Re: 92 Explorer; 5-speed trans. fell apart; should Ford pay?
>Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 02:15:01 GMT
>I had to replace the transmission on my Navajo at 51,000 miles. Just
>up and broke apart on the freeway one day without warning, I mean,
>none. Got so solly cholly from Mazda. But I understand that the
>transmission in my vehicle is a Ford part, which has some design
>problems. Anyone know different about this?
Yup, I know different. It's just the opposite. The 5-speed manual
transmission is *not* a Ford trans in the Mazda Navajo; it's a Mazda trans
in the Ford Explorer (and Navajo too of course).
I have heard lots here on R.A.M.F.E. about reliability problems with this
trans and frankly I'm scared. My trans ('92 4x4 4dr XLT 5-spd) still works at
75K miles, but, I found the lube to be godawful dirty when I checked at 60K
(no mention of replacement in the service schedule, but man I took that stuff
out fast!) and now it's starting to complain when shifting into 2nd.
Steve Offiler
Leonard P. Paplauskas
Steve Offiler wrote:
> I have heard lots here on R.A.M.F.E. about reliability problems with this
> trans and frankly I'm scared. My trans ('92 4x4 4dr XLT 5-spd) still works at
> 75K miles, but, I found the lube to be godawful dirty when I checked at 60K
> (no mention of replacement in the service schedule, but man I took that stuff
> out fast!) and now it's starting to complain when shifting into 2nd.
Steve, could you elaborate on the comment "it's starting to complain when shifting
into 2nd"? Does this mean its hard to get it into gear, its grinding, or what?
Thnx
Len
S
I have a 1991 F150 4x4 (302) with the Mazda 5 speed. I changed to
Mobil synthetic ATF in both the transmission and transfer case at
about 45,000 miles. At 97,000, I drained it again and put in AmsOil
synthetic ATF. I am over 100,000 miles now, and it shifts great, with
no bearing or gear noise. Time will tell, but I think the synthetics
are OK. The AmsOil was about $7.50 a quart in June.
Steve
dr....@worldnet.att.net (Dr. Bob) wrote:
><<snip>>
>Once again, let me recite the virtues of using a synthetic gear oil in
>these transmissions. The factory fills them with ATF, which is a
>marginal choice at best, but allows the trans to shift smoothly until
>it wears out too soon.
>I strongly recommend that owners of these vehicles find a synthetic
>gear oil 75W-90, and replace the ATF. I have had exceptional luck
>with the Bel-Ray oil. They call it "the gear saver". Look at a
>better motorcycle supply store for it.
>Experience in several cars and M/C's shows that the life of the gears
>is extended significantly. Yamaha trans that required a rebuild after
>3 races has not been rebuilt now in 3 seasons. Saab manual trans
>still had machine marks on the ring gear visible, no apparent wear, at
>280k mi.
>So far, the failures reported on the Mazda transmissions includes
>input shaft wear, main shaft wear, and bearing failure. These are
>caused by a combination of poor lubrication film strength, and poor
>material choice for the shafts and gears. Better lube will cure the
>first problem, and will delay the effects of the second.
>This is a cure that should be considered as soon as possible. If you
>wait until the wear is obvious, it will be too late to save.
>FWIW, the Bel-Ray is a nice pink color, and won't cause the dealer to
>jump up and down, as it -looks- a whole lot like new ATF.
>As far as the new synthetic ATFs out recently -- I am open to input
>from actual users on these products. The high cost (over $5/qt) and
>known weakness of ATF would keep it out of any manual gearbox as far
>as I'm concerned. I may be coaxed into using it in my automatic
>explorer if anyone has data on it.
>Hope this helps!
>dr bob
Dr. Bob
Anthony Horton
Leonard P. Paplauskas <papla...@adp.uchc.edu> wrote in article
<324A95...@adp.uchc.edu>...
I l also had troubles in the shifting part, until I installed Redline
Synthetic MTL(manual transmission lubricant) this could help your shifting
complaint. E-mail for phone .
aho...@hom.net
Joe B
rfi...@qualcomm.com (Robert Finley) wrote:
>In article <52a4o1$a...@alpine.psnw.com>, Vicki Mulford <vic...@psnw.com> wrote:
>>>> My 92 Explorer (with the Mazda-built 5 speed trans) had the same
>>>> problem. BUT, at about 20k, well withing warranty. And Fixed by dealer
>>
>>>Is this the same Mazda-built, hard-shifting, barely synchronized, 5 speed
>>>piece of shit that is in my 95 F-150??? Mine needed to be repaired at
>>
>>I had to replace the transmission on my Navajo at 51,000 miles. Just
>>up and broke apart on the freeway one day without warning, I mean,
>>none. Got so solly cholly from Mazda. But I understand that the
>>transmission in my vehicle is a Ford part, which has some design
>>problems. Anyone know different about this?
>
>It's a Mazda P.O.S., for sure. I don't really know who is responsible for
>the Engine design (that part hasn't failed me yet) except that I read
>in an auto magazine that it was a European design.
>
>Did you have the hydraulic fluid bled down periodically so that
>moisture woudn't get in and start destroying the slave cylinder inside
>the transmission? (the doodad that moves the clutch in and out, hopefully...)?
>
>(Funny, the manual doesn't mention bleeding down any hydraulics. F***ers.)
My tranny was repaired under warranty at 12K miles. It got stuck in gear
between 4th and 5th. No problems with the transmission since. I do change the
fluid once a year.
My slave cylinder went at 46K miles. It was preceeded by the clutch master
cylinder replacement 2 weeks before the slave cylinder went. Since the slave
cylinder is inside the tranny, I had the clutch replaced.
What does bleed down mean ? How do I do this and will it save my slave cylinder
from failing at such low mileage ?
Robert Finley
Joe B wrote:
>
> rfi...@qualcomm.com (Robert Finley) wrote:
>
> >In article <52a4o1$a...@alpine.psnw.com>, Vicki Mulford <vic...@psnw.com> wrote:
> >>>> My 92 Explorer (with the Mazda-built 5 speed trans) had the same
> >>>> problem. BUT, at about 20k, well withing warranty. And Fixed by dealer
> >>
> >>>Is this the same Mazda-built, hard-shifting, barely synchronized, 5 speed
> >>>piece of shit that is in my 95 F-150??? Mine needed to be repaired at
> >>
> >>I had to replace the transmission on my Navajo at 51,000 miles. Just
> >>up and broke apart on the freeway one day without warning, I mean,
> >>none. Got so solly cholly from Mazda. But I understand that the
>
> What does bleed down mean ? How do I do this and will it save my slave cylinder
> from failing at such low mileage ?
Ummm... Not really sure.
The real goal should probably be to replace the fluid in that
system. That would involve draining the system and replacing
the fluid.
I had my tranny rebuilt before it went completely. Now that
I have it back, it isn't shifting much easier than before.
What were your symptoms for the Master cylinder?
I think they had air bubbles trapped in the line...
Dr. Bob pointed out that oil attracts moisture, even through
metal casings (like the engine and transmission). One of
the goals of oil is to keep the water floating at the top
(for a lack of a better term...) If you live in an area
with fairly regular humidity and moisture...
(I moved from Chicago to San Diego and I think I am going to have
the same problems here because of the humidity.)
The worst part is that I change the tranny fluid on my vehicles
every year also after 50K miles, manual and automatic.
But, the hydraulics are a completely different system.
And, why do I have a $329.25 Shaft Assembly replaced that doesn't
show any visible wear. I think I know what a machined surface
looks like!
robert.
P.S. Thanks ford.
Why am I learning my lifelong lessons on car maintenance the
hard and expensive way? I read the book. I spent a fortune
keeping up with the scheduled maintenance (those 30k mile tuneups
sure are cheap!). I engage the 4WD every month to keep the
oil moving around. I replaced both hubs at 55K miles. I even
had the front U-joints replaced at 58K miles after the dealer "figured"
out that they caused the hub to fail in the first place.
What have I done to ford to deserve this?
John Jackson
[...]
: Dr. Bob pointed out that oil attracts moisture, even through
: metal casings (like the engine and transmission).
I believe this statement is as erroneous as the assertion by some
people in one the boating newsgroups about how some aluminum carburetor
bodies on outboard engines can become 'porous' and allow enough air to
leak through them to affect the operation of the engine. There is no
way that water passes through solid metal. The only way for moisture to
get into an engine or transmission case is in from air leakage into the
case. This could be through normal openings in the them for things like
vents, fill tubes, even leaky seals.
Bryan Cass
Robert Finley <rfi...@qualcomm.com> wrote in article
<325002BB...@qualcomm.com>...
>...
> Why am I learning my lifelong lessons on car maintenance the
> hard and expensive way? I read the book. I spent a fortune
> keeping up with the scheduled maintenance (those 30k mile tuneups
> sure are cheap!). I engage the 4WD every month to keep the
> oil moving around. I replaced both hubs at 55K miles. I even
> had the front U-joints replaced at 58K miles after the dealer "figured"
> out that they caused the hub to fail in the first place.
>
> What have I done to ford to deserve this?
>
Same here -- I tend to follow the instructions pretty well. But we trusted
their "Quality is Job 1" slogan. ;)
Just an update, as I was the person who started this thread. We have had
the transmission rebuilt to the tune of $1700. We have contacted the
dealer and told them that we would like Ford to partially cover the repair
cost. They called back a week later and said sorry, but no. But then we
told them about the TSB describing a known problem with the Mazda 5-speed
locking up in 4th gear (Dec. 1991), which is exactly what happened in our
case. They seemed surprised that we knew so much about the TSB and said
they would "look into" it further, but we have not heard anything back from
them in about a week. I'm sure they will try to stall and put it off as
long as possible; but we will persist, even to small claims court or
possibly look into a class action lawsuit. It seems Ford knew about this
assembly problem with the transmissions and had corrected it with different
parts (or so the transmission shop guy has said), but basically has hoped
that trucks that still had the problem would fail after the warranty
expired.
We probably wouldn't be as adamant about pursuing this, except that this
particular 92 Explorer has had many problems that we consider manufacturing
defects. And to Ford's credit, this truck was built in Sept. 91, so there
may have been problems on the assembly line that were later corrected (like
with the 5-speed tranny). But we still expect some ownership from Ford
when major systems fail that the customer likely could not have prevented
or caused.
Dr. Bob
jo...@asimov.oit.umass.edu (John Jackson) wrote:
>[...]
>-John
>jo...@external.umass.edu
John:
I guess that you read someone's interpretation of what I said, so
before this gets too far out of hand, let's go back to the basics.
The original post talked about a problem with a failed slave cylinder
causing the trans problems. The suggestion I made was to flush the
hydraulics for the clutch the same way that you do for the brakes.
Ford suggests a --brake system-- flush at two year intervals, as the
brake fluid will gather moisture from the air. If your hydraulic
fluid is brown, it is because the moisture it has soaked up is
causing rust in the cylinders and lines. So, if you follow the same
recommendations as they make for the brake system, you'd be flushing
the system for the clutch, too.
I can send the original post and reply if you are still interested.
dr bob
Robert Finley
In article <52r609$7...@nic.umass.edu>,
John Jackson <jo...@asimov.oit.umass.edu> wrote:
>[...]
>
>: Dr. Bob pointed out that oil attracts moisture, even through
>: metal casings (like the engine and transmission).
>
> I believe this statement is as erroneous as the assertion by some
>people in one the boating newsgroups about how some aluminum carburetor
>bodies on outboard engines can become 'porous' and allow enough air to
>leak through them to affect the operation of the engine. There is no
>way that water passes through solid metal. The only way for moisture to
>get into an engine or transmission case is in from air leakage into the
>case. This could be through normal openings in the them for things like
>vents, fill tubes, even leaky seals.
>
>-John
>jo...@external.umass.edu
I mistakenly credited both halves of my statement to Dr. Bob. For which I
apologize...
The second half of that statement is based on realizing that condensation
can get into ANYTHING.
BTW. I have realized that I have turned into an Explorawhiner.
Sorry to dump on you guys. But, after $4,500 in repairs in ONE YEAR,
I feel that we deserve answers. If I wanted these kinds of repair bills,
I would have bought one of those Dodge Ram things...
The worst part is, after all this, it isn't running just like new.
I think I have an exhaust leak from when they took the cat converter
and exhaust pipes out to get the transmission out.
I wouldn't recommend a 4WD Explorer with more than 40K miles to anybody.
$600> 30k maintenance
$500 left front brake rebuild
$300 right front brake rebuild
$700 both autolock hubs
$350 both front U-joints
$350 A/C hoses replaced
$200 Exhaust
$1700 transmission
And, that is just the stuff that I can remember...
Robert
Joe B
Robert Finley <rfi...@qualcomm.com> wrote:
>Ummm... Not really sure.
>
>The real goal should probably be to replace the fluid in that
>system. That would involve draining the system and replacing
>the fluid.
>
>I had my tranny rebuilt before it went completely. Now that
>I have it back, it isn't shifting much easier than before.
>
>What were your symptoms for the Master cylinder?
>
The clutch didn't work !Meaning when I disengaged it, it did not disengage !
>Why am I learning my lifelong lessons on car maintenance the
>hard and expensive way? I read the book. I spent a fortune
>keeping up with the scheduled maintenance (those 30k mile tuneups
>sure are cheap!). I engage the 4WD every month to keep the
>oil moving around. I replaced both hubs at 55K miles. I even
>had the front U-joints replaced at 58K miles after the dealer "figured"
>out that they caused the hub to fail in the first place.
>
>What have I done to ford to deserve this?
This line can find it's heritage from one of the greatest movies of all time
"Stripes"
We were all stupid enough to buy early model Explorers.
Bryan Cass
Robert Finley <rfi...@qualcomm.com> wrote in article
>
> I mistakenly credited both halves of my statement to Dr. Bob. For which
I
> apologize...
>
> The second half of that statement is based on realizing that condensation
> can get into ANYTHING.
>
> BTW. I have realized that I have turned into an Explorawhiner.
>
> Sorry to dump on you guys. But, after $4,500 in repairs in ONE YEAR,
> I feel that we deserve answers. If I wanted these kinds of repair bills,
> I would have bought one of those Dodge Ram things...
>
> The worst part is, after all this, it isn't running just like new.
> I think I have an exhaust leak from when they took the cat converter
> and exhaust pipes out to get the transmission out.
>
> I wouldn't recommend a 4WD Explorer with more than 40K miles to anybody.
>
> $600> 30k maintenance
> $500 left front brake rebuild
> $300 right front brake rebuild
> $700 both autolock hubs
> $350 both front U-joints
> $350 A/C hoses replaced
> $200 Exhaust
> $1700 transmission
>
> And, that is just the stuff that I can remember...
>
> Robert
I'd be glad to jump in with you on a class-action lawsuit.