shaking and grinding on 4WD - 94 explorer...
Trevor Bean
very snowy in winnipeg area this last week I've been running in 2WD most of
the time but with the hubs locked to the shafts for when I want the 4WD.
Tonight I used it to get out of our multi story car lot. Its steep and v
icy. I never heard such bad noises. It sounds like chicken legs being pulled
off and you can feel crunching and clicking through the steering wheel. You
can feel it drag on the vehicle too. Like the brakes are dragging. If you
make a turn in 4WD the whole truck rocks and twists like it trying to turn
itself inside out. Its almost like the front diff isnt a diff but solid.
Like the front wheels are pulling and pushing at the same time. I dont know
what the problem is. This is the same truck with the clunk on the wheel. I
posted that problem yesterday below " '94 explorer 'clunk' noise". Not sure
that the two are related.
Beginning to wonder when the troubles with this truck will ever end.
Help appreciated.
Jim Warman
related... Wheel bearing, loose caliper, axle u-joint - something that very
likely could affect the safety of the car.
I don't mean to pick on you, Trevor, but this is a good time to bring up
some thing that seems to escape a lot of motorists..... If your vehicle is
making a strange noise or exhibiting some new, unexpected behaviour, it is
telling you it's hurtin'. Noises, shimmies, shakes and other manifestations
are the cars only way of telling you it is time to do something. Often, it
may be something that can be left for a short time - until finances or
schedules allow. More often than not, it can represent the beginning of
compromise the safety of your vehicle (time to think of other motorists,
pedestrians, your family.... your kids...) or something that can snowball.
What may start out as a minor irritation and a hundred dollar fix can turn
into a major buying decision in a matter of a few miles.
As a rather morbid sidebar, I wonder if many denizens of this NG have
thought about some of those 'mysterious' single vehicle, clear road, middle
of the day accidents? The ones that appear to have no cause..... In my
capacity as a volunteer firefighter/rescue tech, I've been to far to many of
these. Looking at what's left of many of these vehicles, I can only assume
that the "driver error" occured several days before the accident.
Thanks for allowing my rant...
--
Jim Warman
mech...@telusplanet.net
"Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:KGGA9.11951$b5.5...@news1.mts.net...
Lazarus
previous post? It still could be something like the CV joints as
mentioned before..
What 4wd mode are you putting it in when it does this? could be
universals as well. if you slowly coast straight forward on somewhat
drive pavement when in 4wd is the noise worse then it is when in 2?
If in 4low when it was doing that, I would definetally suggest the cv
joints, or perhaps u joints on the front driveshaft..
If in 4Auto/AWD mode, it probably is the exact same as whatever is
causing the previously mentioned noise, just magnified as the vehicle
puts power to a front wheel, stops applying power to it, starts
applying power to it.. etc.
If its that much worse in 4wd, you can probably rule out wheel
bearings for the most part..
How is the ATF level in your T-Case? Does it engage and disengage 4wd
relativly smoothly or are you getting some gear grinding noises when
doing so..
"Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net> wrote in message news:<KGGA9.11951$b5.5...@news1.mts.net>...
JaWise
It's a 94 explorer. That year there was no auto mode. Those years I think
there were still Ujoints on the front. My 93 used to grind a little the first
time you used it evey year.
SASCHOCH
I'm not sure that I know exactly what is happening in your truck, but if you
are making the sharp turns, inherent in a multistory parking structure, on a
non slippery surface, the truck WILL buck and jerk and hop and scrub the tires
because they aren't slipping and sliding on the ice and snow. And I would
consider that normal behavior for the truck in those conditions. The preferred
modus operandi(sp) in 4x4, is "straight ahead" unless you are on an extremely
slippery or loose surface. Very moderate turns are OK.
I suspect that the front end clunk clunk clunk will have something to do with
the 'U' joints in the front end.
Is the front driveshaft engaged?
Are you driving in 2WD with the hubs locked? Its perfectly OK to do, but your
front driveshafts and differential are turning and could produce a noise.
Does the front driveshaft turn freely by hand when it's disengaged?
Have you put the front end up on jackstands and spun the tires? -any noises?
With the truck up on jackstands, in park, engine off, with the 4x4 button on
the dash engaged, with the manual hubs engaged will the tires rotate? -They
shouldn't.
Ditto above, with the hubs disengaged, will the tires rotate freely? -They
should.
I think that with basic mechanical skills, a service manual, help from the
WWW.glue.umd.edu/~singletn/exp.html website, good advise from this NG (Jim
especially) and a little luck, you will fix all its faults and come to love
this truck. I personally believe that the '94MY is the "Best in breed".
Regards,
-Steve ('94 EB 4x4)
In article <KGGA9.11951$b5.5...@news1.mts.net>, "Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net>
writes:
Trevor Bean
Firstly all three u joints were worn and replaced a week or two ago as they
were suspected of causing said noises etc..
I dont normally drive in 2wd with the hubs locked but like the other day I
did in the car park. See I appreciate that I should expect a little noise
driving it in the car park n 4WD - tight turns etc so I use the button on
the dash to keep it in 2WD inside the car park. The ramp out is however very
steep and icy and I engaged the 4WD at the bottom of the slope. It used to
go straight in and I still think it does engage fine as there is no noise
until I try to move. Then it sounds like I have worn u joints or hubs or
whatever and I get the grinding and the drag.
I did have the wheels off the ground in park the other day when I replaced
the clips that hold the calipers. Although I should say that the 4WD button
was not pressed at the time. The hubs seem to lock as they should and
disengage as you would expect too. I'll repeat the exercise tonight.
As for it being normal to jump around a bit on a dry surface, that makes me
feel a little better. Please excuse my lack of knowledge as this is my first
4WD vehicle and all you peoples advice is much appreciated. Is there not
some form of differential between the front and rear axles? During a turn,
all four wheels must take a different route at a different speed. So surely
ford allowed for this to happen when they built these things? Or am I
missing somthing? Educate me please!!
I'll try your spinning wheels test tonight and keep you posted. If anyone
has any more thoughts on this its appreciated. Think I need to find a
trustworthy workshop in Winnipeg. I only moved here from the UK 3 month ago
so I havnt established a relationship with any mehanics yet.
I should do as the other post said and check the transmission oil level.
Pointers please....
Andy
As for the previous 'rant' - that is precisely why I'm seeking to solve the
problem. Thanks anyway.
"SASCHOCH" <sasc...@aol.commonman> wrote in message
news:20021114103217...@mb-fg.aol.com...
j_bruce
for about 10 feet after disengaging the 4WD. Otherwise, the hubs do
not unlock and the "bump and grind" continues.
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 17:08:56 -0600, "Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net>
wrote:
Trevor Bean
reversing thing only applied to the auto hubs but I'm willing to be
educated.
"j_bruce" <j_shoe_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mgd8tus75gst8ad46...@4ax.com...
Jim Warman
about operating in 4WD on dry surfaces. I assume you have the manual hub
conversion? Driving with the hubs locked in wont normally make much
difference - I lock my hubs in at first snow (or hunting season - whichever
comes first) and don't unlock them until spring. Is the noise worse or the
same between 2 and 4WD? Is the noise any worse when the front is on better
traction than the rear? Is the noise worse when cornering or fairly
constant?
You had mentioned that the initial noise was "in time" with the wheels.....
bearing in mind a 235-75 15 will have about a 90 inch rollout....
--
Jim Warman
mech...@telusplanet.net
"Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:I5WA9.12277$b5.5...@news1.mts.net...
Trevor Bean
regardless of whether I have the hubs locked or the 4wd or 2wd engaged. I do
however have grinding noises when I drive it in 4WD now and you can feel it
in the steering wheel. You can also feel it dragging on the car. Interesting
about the lack of a diff between the front and rear. That could explain some
of what I feel.
"Jim Warman" <mech...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:ugYA9.25$0A5....@news0.telusplanet.net...
Phil
diameter? If not, they will bind up the system.
"Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:DzYA9.12356$b5.5...@news1.mts.net...
Jim Warman
feel safe in thinking that we can discount a 4WD problem. Did the noise come
before the caliper pin replacement ? I'm trying to visualize the problem but
it feels like I'm beating my head against the wall. There isn't a chance
that you've left loose lug nuts, is there? Silly question but needs to be
asked....
Nothing strange about the lack of a diff between the front and rear. As it
is (with an open rear diff) you need to spin one front wheel *and* one rear
wheel to be stuck. With a third, non-locking (or torque sensing) diff in the
system you would only need to spin one wheel to be stuck - negating the
benefit of 4WD. This is the way it's been since forever (well, sometime
after my pet dinosaur died...) with few exceptions - no, let's not discuss
QuadraTrac.
The way we sit, I can either meet you in front of my house at lunch
tomorrow, or you might go back through your list of symptoms, item by item,
point by point with no omissions. I'm missing something and I can't figure
what.
--
Jim Warman
mech...@telusplanet.net
"Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:DzYA9.12356$b5.5...@news1.mts.net...
Trevor Bean
like that. I'm beginning to understand. So when I take turns in four wheel
drive I should expect to feel some kinda resistance, almost like the wheels
are fighting themselves because somthing has to give right? I'm pleased i
understand that now. Thanks.
I wonder if all I'm hearing is the pressure on the front drive then as it
slips tyres in the snow and ice. Could be normal and that I'm just not used
to it. (Used to front wheel drive cars back in UK)
So that only really leaves us with the clunk on the front. That has always
been. Regardless of what drive your using and before and after the caliper
clips were done and after. Its when your coasting in a parking lot but as
soon as you touch the brakes or steer it goes. Had the wheels off the floor
tonight and everything seems to work as you would expect. You can hear my
clunk though on the drivers side front wheel. Its not as loud with no weight
on it though. It sounds like its coming from right inside the wheel. You
dont have to lock the hub and turn the shaft as well too for it to do it.
Hubs or wheel bearings?
Thats all I can see thats moving when I jack a wheel off the floor. Where
abouts are you anyway? If your in Winnipeg I will come meet you!! I need the
help! I carnt just keep putting it in workshop after workshop to get it
fixed. I need to find a good shop that I can trust really. Thats the kinda
thing you suffer for when you move towns though I guess.
Thanks for all help so far.
Is appreciated.
Andy
"Jim Warman" <mech...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:kw_A9.775$bh1....@news1.telusplanet.net...
Jim Warman
springs.... I can't remember the year break but I think that your inner pads
need these little boogers. They fit between the lower end of the inner pad
and the caliper support - just a little tin looking thing that can (if
missing) allow the inner pad to knock back and forth. I've never had the
"pleasure" of feeling it in the wheel but have heard it plain as day even
with the windows up. It sometimes manifests itself as a cyclical noise but
not always.
These springs are small and quite insignificant looking - often overlooked
in high volume shops.... I can't find an illustration (sorry, didn't look
hard) on the net.... you might have to avail yourself of a manual or parts
view for a better explanation.
Since you are a neophyte to some of the experience, it's hard to say what is
a viable concern and what is expected. If I sound gruff, just remember that
I live in a place people move away from....
--
Jim Warman
mech...@telusplanet.net
"Trevor Bean" <ati...@mts.net> wrote in message
news:DW%A9.12452$b5.5...@news1.mts.net...
SASCHOCH
<j_shoe_...@yahoo.com> writes:
>If you have the stock hubs, it is also necessary to reverse direction
>for about 10 feet after disengaging the 4WD. Otherwise, the hubs do
>not unlock and the "bump and grind" continues.
>
No JB, Trevor wrote that he had manual hubs.
SASCHOCH
writes:
> Is there not
>some form of differential between the front and rear axles? During a turn,
>all four wheels must take a different route at a different speed. So surely
>ford allowed for this to happen when they built these things? Or am I
>missing somthing? Educate me please!!
Trevor:
No, the front and rear are "locked together" which is why you only want to use
4x4 on slippery surfaces.
>The ramp out is however very steep and icy and I engaged the 4WD at the
>bottom of the slope. It used to go straight in and I still think it does
engage fine >as there is no noise until I try to move. Then it sounds like I
have worn u joints or >hubs or whatever and I get the grinding and the drag.
Boy, that sounds bad. I wonder if your transfer case is trashed? Check the
fluid level in the transfer case (you have to remove the upper plug and stick
your little pinky in there) it should be full.
OR the front differential? With the front end up on jackstands, in park, in
2WD, hubs engaged, spin the tires and check for noises. This should turn the
front drive components and the front differential.
good luck, & keep us posted.