97 Caravan Gas Mileage Decrease
anto...@yahoo.com
between 16 - 18 mpg except on long trips. Recently mileage has dropped
to where it has been a consistent 14.5 - 15.5. Yesterday, I noticed a
significant drip of water from the front of the muffler while the
engine was idling during warmup. Could this signify that I might have a
partially collapsed muffler, and that may be causing the mileage
decrease.
Also, while I'm at it, is there any recommended performance exhaust
upgrade.
--
Rich Anton
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
erahom...@my-deja.com
but it's colder than a witches ....! Also thank uncle sam for the
biggest bunch of crap known as reformulated gas! These combine to put
mileage in the crapper.
Larry
Tj
that gets between 18 - 21 in town. How many miles are on that 3.3?
How many miles is it driven on any given day?
Where do you live?
Have you noticed the tappets clicking when you warm it up?
How many minutes is the engine warmed up on the first start up dally?
What kind of oil are you using?
Tj
<anto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:91ieo5$men$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
anto...@yahoo.com
tappets clicking. Is that significant. Don't usually warm it up, but
why, its a fuel injected engine and the car is garaged. I use 10W30 oil.
In article <Ezh%5.2903$g37.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Tj
Any engine over a 1L should be warmed up at least till you see the gauge
start to move, for the sake of the engine and transmission. Tappet noise
means the valves are sticking from the carbon build-up. You might be able
to save the valves and the injector from any further damage if you add a
bottle (or two) of "Amsoil PI" or something like it to the gas. 50,000
miles, that's a lot of build-up.
As for as the oil, if you have freezing temperatures (which I'm sure you do)
then 10W-30 is weak. Check and see if a 5W-30 is available in the same
brand. I use 0W-30 and I still warm up the engine before I drive it. My
guess is the damage is already done, your poor mpg is just the start of the
problems your are going to see in the near future. Your next indication
will be oil usage if it hasn't already started. Good Luck,
Tj
<anto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:91o706$6bo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Jeffrey J. Potoff
Tj wrote:
>
> Hi, what does fuel injection have to do with not warming up a cold engine?
> Any engine over a 1L should be warmed up at least till you see the gauge
> start to move, for the sake of the engine and transmission.
Wrong. Drive moderately until the engine is warm. It saves fuel and is
better for the engine than letting is sit there idling.
> Tappet noise
> means the valves are sticking from the carbon build-up.
No it doesn't.
> You might be able
> to save the valves and the injector from any further damage if you add a
> bottle (or two) of "Amsoil PI" or something like it to the gas. 50,000
> miles, that's a lot of build-up.
>
Or maybe none at all.
> As for as the oil, if you have freezing temperatures (which I'm sure you do)
> then 10W-30 is weak.
At 20 F, it's fine for most vehicles, although 5W30 is probably better.
> Check and see if a 5W-30 is available in the same
> brand. I use 0W-30 and I still warm up the engine before I drive it. My
> guess is the damage is already done, your poor mpg is just the start of the
> problems your are going to see in the near future. Your next indication
> will be oil usage if it hasn't already started. Good Luck,
>
The sky is falling! Maybe you should have told the guy that his engine
was going to blow up right away.
The most likely cause of the milage drop is something much simpler.
It's probably time for some new sparkplugs if they haven't been changed
recently. If you still have trouble, take the car in and have someone
put it on the scope. 16-18 mpg is quite common for these vehicles with
the 3.3L engine in mixed city/highway driving. Check the pressure in
the tires. The door sticker in our T+C says inflate to 35 PSI. Mine
were at 29 PSI, after inflating to 35 PSI, we gained an extra 1 mpg.
Jeff
Tj
Jeffrey J. Potoff <pot...@chem.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:3A4011E1...@chem.umn.edu...
>
>
> Tj wrote:
> >
> > Hi, what does fuel injection have to do with not warming up a cold
engine?
> > Any engine over a 1L should be warmed up at least till you see the gauge
> > start to move, for the sake of the engine and transmission.
>
> Wrong. Drive moderately until the engine is warm. It saves fuel and is
> better for the engine than letting is sit there idling.
This is wrong, as soon as motor is started and driven it becomes loaded.
That means the inturnal working parts have "not" had time to heat up and
seat, this causes inturnal scarring of the cyclinder wall and bearings. The
colder the weather the worse it is unless you use an oil that is 0 or 5W
rating, why the hell do you think they make that kind of oil in the first
place. Because it will lubricate the engine right away until it has a
chance to reach "operating temperature". Where did you learn about motors
anyway?
> > Tappet noise
> > means the valves are sticking from the carbon build-up.
>
> No it doesn't.
It sure as hell does, it is quite common using todays gasolines. It also
means that the injector's are starting to clog which is the number one
reason for poor mpg. And it's a simple thing to test!
>
> > You might be able
> > to save the valves and the injector from any further damage if you add a
> > bottle (or two) of "Amsoil PI" or something like it to the gas. 50,000
> > miles, that's a lot of build-up.
> >
>
> Or maybe none at all.
And that's your opinion.
>
> > As for as the oil, if you have freezing temperatures (which I'm sure you
do)
> > then 10W-30 is weak.
>
> At 20 F, it's fine for most vehicles, although 5W30 is probably better.
>
> > Check and see if a 5W-30 is available in the same
> > brand. I use 0W-30 and I still warm up the engine before I drive it.
My
> > guess is the damage is already done, your poor mpg is just the start of
the
> > problems your are going to see in the near future. Your next indication
> > will be oil usage if it hasn't already started. Good Luck,
> >
>
> The sky is falling! Maybe you should have told the guy that his engine
> was going to blow up right away.
>
> The most likely cause of the milage drop is something much simpler.
> It's probably time for some new sparkplugs if they haven't been changed
> recently. If you still have trouble, take the car in and have someone
> put it on the scope. 16-18 mpg is quite common for these vehicles with
> the 3.3L engine in mixed city/highway driving. Check the pressure in
> the tires. The door sticker in our T+C says inflate to 35 PSI. Mine
> were at 29 PSI, after inflating to 35 PSI, we gained an extra 1 mpg.
>
> Jeff
I haven't told him anything but the truth, you are the one that said "The
sky is falling!". These things are some of the most common problems. You
don't have to take my word on it, just trot down to the local dealership and
talk to a few of the service personal. The mileage he's getting is pitiful,
if he does something now he will be better off later. If not, then he'll
see the mileage drop some more and the engine will start eating oil.
Tj
anto...@yahoo.com
Just some other notes.
1) 5W30 may be better, but I've heard that sometimes it leaks more
through the seals.
2) My tires are at 35psi(I just put them to 37 for my pending trip to
Florida)
3) The tappet sound is an interesting point, but this engine has made
the noise since it was new, so I doubt it's carbon buildup. I can't
remember if I ever asked the dealer about it or not. Maybe I will put in
a can of injector cleaner. (No one sells Amsoil in my area.)
4) I owned an Acura Integra for 13 years, 195,000 miles. Never warmed it
up once.
We'll see how I do on my Florida run this Friday. Normal for this car
is usually around 22-23.
In article <3A4011E1...@chem.umn.edu>,
--
Tj
we buy is really poor. Be careful with the additives, some will break down
the injector seals. Amsoil PI is one of the few that want harm anything.
I've been running 0W30 Synthetic for four years, no leaks, works great. I
suppose the petroleum equivalent may cause leaks, I haven't heard.
The Dodge engine is nothing like the Acura Integra engine.
I hope you have a safe trip to Fl. Sorry about jumping down on Jeff. I
don't usually do that.
Good luck,
Tim
<anto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:91qqkk$avn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Jeffrey J. Potoff
Tj wrote:
>
> Jeffrey, please read below.
>
> Jeffrey J. Potoff <pot...@chem.umn.edu> wrote in message
> news:3A4011E1...@chem.umn.edu...
> >
> >
> > Tj wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, what does fuel injection have to do with not warming up a cold
> engine?
> > > Any engine over a 1L should be warmed up at least till you see the gauge
> > > start to move, for the sake of the engine and transmission.
> >
> > Wrong. Drive moderately until the engine is warm. It saves fuel and is
> > better for the engine than letting is sit there idling.
>
> This is wrong, as soon as motor is started and driven it becomes loaded.
> That means the inturnal working parts have "not" had time to heat up and
> seat, this causes inturnal scarring of the cyclinder wall and bearings.
I assume you mean "internal," and you are wrong. Obviously you will
have some wear at startup, but just how much? If you drive it
moderately right away, it warms up much faster than if you leave it
idling in the driveway. Is it better to have the engine running for a
longer period of time cold and with poor lubrication? I don't think so.
I have never warmed up any car I've ever owned before driving it and all
of them have gone well over 120,000 miles without any major engine work
and none of them burned any oil. My brother's Camry has 180,000 miles
on it (doesn't burn any oil, either). He just jumps in and drives it.
They were all operated in Michigan, Minnesota and New York, in case you
are concerned about whether or not they were operated in the cold.
If what you were saying were really true, we would see many more failed
or smoking engines than we do. Look at the statistics.
> The
> colder the weather the worse it is unless you use an oil that is 0 or 5W
> rating, why the hell do you think they make that kind of oil in the first
> place. Because it will lubricate the engine right away until it has a
> chance to reach "operating temperature". Where did you learn about motors
> anyway?
>
I started with books when I was 12. I used to read service manuals for
fun. Every teenager on the block had a hot rod and I spent years
wrenching with them before I was old enough (15) to buy my own car.
I've restored a couple cars, built a motor or two, etc over the last 15
years. I also have a PhD in chemical engineering and happen to know a
thing or two about engineering in general. I base my conclusions on
science, not a bunch of myths perpetuated by people who don't know any
better.
Where did you "learn" about engines?
> > > Tappet noise
> > > means the valves are sticking from the carbon build-up.
> >
> > No it doesn't.
>
> It sure as hell does, it is quite common using todays gasolines.
According to who? You? Where is your proof? Tappet noise is a sign
that your lifters are out of adjustment. Simple.
> It also
> means that the injector's are starting to clog which is the number one
> reason for poor mpg. And it's a simple thing to test!
>
What does tappet noise have to do with injectors clogging?
What does this have to do with oil consumption?
> >
> > > You might be able
> > > to save the valves and the injector from any further damage if you add a
> > > bottle (or two) of "Amsoil PI" or something like it to the gas. 50,000
> > > miles, that's a lot of build-up.
> > >
> >
> > Or maybe none at all.
>
> And that's your opinion.
Fact for my cars. Maybe your experience is different.
>
> >
> > > As for as the oil, if you have freezing temperatures (which I'm sure you
> do)
> > > then 10W-30 is weak.
> >
> > At 20 F, it's fine for most vehicles, although 5W30 is probably better.
> >
> > > Check and see if a 5W-30 is available in the same
> > > brand. I use 0W-30 and I still warm up the engine before I drive it.
> My
> > > guess is the damage is already done, your poor mpg is just the start of
> the
> > > problems your are going to see in the near future. Your next indication
> > > will be oil usage if it hasn't already started. Good Luck,
> > >
> >
> > The sky is falling! Maybe you should have told the guy that his engine
> > was going to blow up right away.
> >
> > The most likely cause of the milage drop is something much simpler.
> > It's probably time for some new sparkplugs if they haven't been changed
> > recently. If you still have trouble, take the car in and have someone
> > put it on the scope. 16-18 mpg is quite common for these vehicles with
> > the 3.3L engine in mixed city/highway driving. Check the pressure in
> > the tires. The door sticker in our T+C says inflate to 35 PSI. Mine
> > were at 29 PSI, after inflating to 35 PSI, we gained an extra 1 mpg.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> I haven't told him anything but the truth, you are the one that said "The
> sky is falling!".
Maybe the truth in bizzarro land. You make it sound like because he
didn't warm up his engine according to your golden rule he has some kind
of significant internal engine damage. Instead of crying "the sky is
falling" like you did (you do know what a metaphor is, don't you?), you
would have been much better off suggesting much more likely causes of
poor gas milage. What next, are you going to tell him to buy some
Amsoil from you or get his muffler bearings changed?
> These things are some of the most common problems.
Common? I've never had "sticking valves" or "carbon buildup" on my
injectors in any car. Neither has anyone else I've ever known.
> You
> don't have to take my word on it, just trot down to the local dealership and
> talk to a few of the service personal. The mileage he's getting is pitiful,
> if he does something now he will be better off later. If not, then he'll
> see the mileage drop some more and the engine will start eating oil.
This is just the bullshit I was talking about. "Do something now or
your engine is going to start eating oil" What a crock. The milage is
down most likely because the minivan is in need of a tuneup. Oil
consumption does not directly correlate to reduce milage or
performance. I've driven some cars that were real oil burners that
still had good performance and milage relative to a similar non-oil
burning version of the same vehicle.
Jeff
Tj
readers can see that with all the cars you've had that never burned any oil
regardless of the mileage and a tappet sound could never come from a valve.
Tj
Jeffrey J. Potoff <jpo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3A418A33...@earthlink.net...
Jeffrey J. Potoff
Tj wrote:
>
> Hey Jeff, your basically just full of yourself.
Tell me something I don't know.
Don't get your underwear all in a knot just because you got caught
posting BS.
> I'm sure most of the
> readers can see that with all the cars you've had that never burned any oil
> regardless of the mileage and a tappet sound could never come from a valve.
>
I'm full of myself because my cars don't burn oil? Interesting...
Jeff
George Purpera
for oxygenated fuel during the winter months in the northern states. This
fuel use is supposed to reduce emissions in cold weather. All the oil
companies are required to sell it in these states from about November
through March/ April timeframe. This would also explain the increase in
condensation comming out of the exhaust due to the increased oxygen in the
fuel. (Can't help with the exhaust upgrade).
<anto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:91ieo5$men$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
daryl lic
winter due to the fact when temp goes down the air is way denser and
and the doesn't really help a whole lot
Steve Lacker
daryl lic wrote:
> please correct my thinking but the o2 fuel is for summer months not
> winter due to the fact when temp goes down the air is way denser and
> and the doesn't really help a whole lot
Oxygenated fuels are used in WINTER months. The theory being that since the
engine management systems (or automatic choke, as we called in on real cars
without computers ;-) adds extra fuel in cold weather to maintain driveability,
the extra oxygenate will help the catalyst burn the leftover fuel.
Of course, what it REALLY does is mangle the engine control electronics' view of
the world because the O2 sensor is screaming "lean!" so the computer just adds
MORE fuel, making the tailpipe emissions worse and further lowering fuel
economy. It also cause the fuel to be more corrosive to aluminum parts and
causes the fuel to go stale (oxidize in the tank) much faster.
Typical EPA insight into engineering.
-- Stephen G. Lacker
sglacker at texas dot net
"Turn off your blinding fog lights, hang up, and DRIVE!"