Suspension parts - what's the diff (Dorman, Raybestos, AC Delco, Mevotech, Moog)

[MoPar Man]

I'm looking at replacing the lower control arms on my '00 Chrysler 300M
and my choices seem to be:

Dorman (about $20 each)
Raybestos ($26 - $46)
AC Delco ($29 - $45)
Mevotech ($30)
Auto Extra / Chassis Rite ($19)
Moog ($21 - $50 - $61)

(all prices -> Rock Auto)

These are all the same - lower control arm with bushings and lower ball
joint pre-installed, with new pinch bolt and nut.

I believe they all have zirk fittings - but perhaps not.

I know that this thread could devolve around the concept of "you get
what you pay for", but I really would like to better understand:

1) Relationship between these manufacturers and their part numbers. For
example, Dorman, Raybestos, and AC Delco all have different part
numbers. However, Mevotech, Auto Extra/Chassis Rite, and Moog all have
"K7211 / K7213" for their part numbers.

For example, Mevotech's P/N is K7211 (left control arm), Auto Extra /
Chassis Rite P/N is AXK7211, and Moog has K7211, RK7211 and CK7211.
Which leads me to believe these are the same underlying parts (what else
could account for the practically identical part numbers?)

Moog has the most expensive parts, and I really don't know the
difference between RK7211 and CK7211 (except that Rock Auto shows a $11
price difference).

2) Am I really just paying more for a longer waranty - but getting the
same part? (for those vendors that sell different versions such as
Raybestos, AC/Delco, and Moog)

I really doubt that I'm going to be paying more than $45 each for these,
which means that all of these except for the two higher-priced Moog
parts are on my short list.

That said, here is a small PDF put out by Moog showing the K7211 ($50):

http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_En/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_27026_K7211_K7213_En.pdf

One other "factoid" -> I searched the moog site for "CK7211" (the $61
part) and found nothing...

[Ashton Crusher]

I hope someone has the inside scoop on this. I've often wondered the
same thing with the same thoughts about the parts with the "same" part
numbers. For some parts I've looked up on the Rockauto site there
will be a pretty clear delineation WITHIN a brand that one of their
lines is a price leader and the other is the quality line. I've found
that even on things as small and cheap as the pin switches for dome
lights.

[Nate Nagel]

I've heard tell that Moog quality isn't what it used to be... once upon
a time I would have advised you to buy Moog and think no more of it.
Now I am not sure if any aftermarket parts are anything other than "will
work long enough to sell the car" parts. Sad...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[m6onz5a]

> http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_En/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_27026_K7211...

>
> One other "factoid" -> I searched the moog site for "CK7211" (the $61
> part) and found nothing...

we sell both dorman and moog along with the economy china made parts.

moog has better looking bushings than the cheap china stuff.

dormans quality looks pretty good. Some things are made in china,
mexico, etc. I've had dormans control arms on my breeze for a couple
of years now. Still doing fine.

dorman seems to have the best price for the quality on a lot of parts.

I think they all carry a 90 day warranty.

chas

[MoPar Man]

m6onz5a used improper usenet message-composition style by unnecessarily
full-quoting:

> > For example, Mevotech's P/N is K7211 (left control arm), Auto Extra

> > Chassis Rite P/N is AXK7211, and Moog has K7211, RK7211 and CK7211.
> > Which leads me to believe these are the same underlying parts
>

> we sell both dorman and moog along with the economy china made parts.

Can you explain why the Moog parts seem to share practically identical
part-numbers as Mevotech and a few other (presumably "economy china")
parts?

> moog has better looking bushings than the cheap china stuff.

"Better looking" is some-what subjective.

> dormans quality looks pretty good.

I'd be more concerned about the stuff you can't see - such as how they
build the ball joints...

Side question:

When it comes to quick-struts, Monroe has an economy line and
original-ride-quality line.

I was pricing them for my 300m. The economy struts were $65 each, the
OEM struts were $125.

What the hell exactly is the difference between these?

[Brent]

On 2013-04-07, MoPar Man <Mo...@Man.com> wrote:
> I'm looking at replacing the lower control arms on my '00 Chrysler 300M
> and my choices seem to be:
>
> Dorman (about $20 each)
> Raybestos ($26 - $46)
> AC Delco ($29 - $45)
> Mevotech ($30)
> Auto Extra / Chassis Rite ($19)
> Moog ($21 - $50 - $61)
>
> (all prices -> Rock Auto)
>
> These are all the same - lower control arm with bushings and lower ball
> joint pre-installed, with new pinch bolt and nut.

> I believe they all have zirk fittings - but perhaps not.

> I know that this thread could devolve around the concept of "you get
> what you pay for", but I really would like to better understand:
>
> 1) Relationship between these manufacturers and their part numbers. For
> example, Dorman, Raybestos, and AC Delco all have different part
> numbers. However, Mevotech, Auto Extra/Chassis Rite, and Moog all have
> "K7211 / K7213" for their part numbers.

> For example, Mevotech's P/N is K7211 (left control arm), Auto Extra /
> Chassis Rite P/N is AXK7211, and Moog has K7211, RK7211 and CK7211.
> Which leads me to believe these are the same underlying parts (what else
> could account for the practically identical part numbers?)

These days I find a hunk of a part number appears to be industry
standard. It does make cross referencing easier.

> Moog has the most expensive parts, and I really don't know the
> difference between RK7211 and CK7211 (except that Rock Auto shows a $11
> price difference).

Moog is usually the best quality part of that list IME. What is
different about lines of Moog parts would require consulting their
website or some other reference.

> 2) Am I really just paying more for a longer waranty - but getting the
> same part? (for those vendors that sell different versions such as
> Raybestos, AC/Delco, and Moog)

I would expect the bushings and ball joint to vary between brand and
line. The stamping might be the same part. Then again one of them might
be the OEM part. If you stick with the better AC/Delco, better
Raybestos, and Moog you should be fine. At least that's been my
experience. There's some risk involved with the lesser parts. For a
control arm I chose to simply avoid them. Too much work and risk for me.
However there was a huge cost jump to moog for the car I last replaced
a control arm on so I got the better raysbestos one. Has turned out
well thus far.

[Brent]

Just noticed you listed a moog at the price of the cheapies... I would
be wary of that one as well and stick with the better ones. They are
doing something to make it cheaper. The description says 'budget minded'
which is often a red flag.

The $45 area seems to be the sweet spot with the selection on Rockauto.
The $20 stuff looks cheap. The decision from what I see there is the
more OEM like Raysbestos AC/Delco or paying a couple bucks more for
Moog's improved PM bushing.

[m6onz5a]

> >http://www.moogproblemsolver.com/_pdf_En/MOOG_PS_Bulletin_27026_K7211...

>
> >One other "factoid" -> I searched the moog site for "CK7211" (the $61
> >part) and found nothing...
>
> I hope someone has the inside scoop on this.  I've often wondered the
> same thing with the same thoughts about the parts with the "same" part
> numbers.  For some parts I've looked up on the Rockauto site there
> will be a pretty clear delineation WITHIN a brand that one of their
> lines is a price leader and the other is the quality line.  I've found
> that even on things as small and cheap as the pin switches for dome
> lights.

Most manufacturers are using the same part #'s for the most part. They
just put their own letters in front or back of the part # to make it
their own. It certainly makes my job easier. You have to go by price
and reputation of the company now.

[Nate Nagel]

The reason that I did not recommend Moog was that at least in the Jeep
forums that I occasionally read I've heard it reported that the ball
joints and TREs that Moog is selling today use plastic ball seats rather
than the metal that they previously used, and that they don't hold up to
extreme duty operation.

Unfortunately, I don't know who to recommend!

I do know that Timken seems to be the wheel bearing of choice at least
for the same application, for the same reason (people who have tried to
save money by using other brands have experienced premature failure.)

[jim beam]

of course you don't. but unfortunately, that doesn't stop you wasting
electrons.

>
> I do know that Timken seems to be the wheel bearing of choice at least
> for the same application, for the same reason (people who have tried to
> save money by using other brands have experienced premature failure.)

you know that timken makes most of its automotive bearings in china now
don't you nate? oh, you didn't? and you have no experience of their
durability??? well, what a surprise. see above.

[ps. don't answer rhetorical questions, idiot.]


--
fact check required

[gpsman]

On Apr 8, 1:25 pm, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>
> The reason that I did not recommend Moog was that at least in the Jeep
> forums that I occasionally read I've heard it reported that the ball
> joints and TREs that Moog is selling today use plastic ball seats rather
> than the metal that they previously used, and that they don't hold up to
> extreme duty operation.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't know who to recommend!

Obviously. It's also obvious you lack the ability to recognize a
reliable source of information.

On the bright side, you've finally managed to say "I don't know",
albeit in far more words than necessary.
-----

- gpsman

[GJOHN...@tx.rr.com]

On Sunday, April 7, 2013 4:12:20 PM UTC-5, MoPar Man wrote:
> I'm looking at replacing the lower control arms on my '00 Chrysler 300M
>
> and my choices seem to be:

> A GOOD WAY TO Find out would be to tensile strength test . See which one breaks under what load

[gregor...@gmail.com]

I have some good information on the rubber quality of these parts. I'm a motorcycle tech by trade however I work on everything. Last year I did lower control arms (4) and (2) outer tie rod ends on an Eclipse. I had one OEM lower control arm with the ball joint (They are sold as a fixed unit) and I filled in the other three with the my economical "name brand" choice - Dorman. The tie rod ends were cheap enough to go top of the line "Moog". So 1 control arm/ball joint is OEM and the other three are Dorman. Both outer tie rod ends are Moog. 4 months later after the winter I took a look underneath and could not believe what I saw. The OEM and Moog ball joints look great but the rubber quality on the Dorman products is AWFUL. The ball joint boots have more cracks in them than the 20 yr old original ones... Sure, keep talking about the metal quality... What keeps the grease in and the elements out. The cracks at that time were not all the way through but still completely unacceptable. So in my opinion, stay away from any Dorman product that uses rubber of any kind.

A lot of the big companies are selling parts from similar factories so they will "re brand" the part and add letters or change the part # slightly or completely. Most of the new ball joints, tie rod ends, etc do NOT have grease fittings. The old timers call them "Lifers". Without these fittings the parts won't last as long, however who has their vehicle for 10 years anymore (besides my family).

I have not tested some of the other brands: Parts master, Mevotech, FEQ, etc.. Hope this helps out a people about to buy Dorman products.

[jetj...@gmail.com]

No need to be a f#cking piece of sh!t "BUDDY". Like you're the end all be all expert of car parts, manufacturers change their product quality all the time and source their parts allover, so you can just excuse yourself from the conversation considering us honest people just want to find out if any part company is making quality product anymore. I'd recommend you follow your own advice, if you don't know then shut your f#cking mouth, you're just another f#ckhole troll scouring the internet.

[ejh...@gmail.com]

Federal-Mogul's e-cat site www.fme-cat.com shows an RK7211 and CK7211. Years ago there was only one MOOG part number K7211, but today they offer a standard grade RK7211 that is similar to the competitors you listed, ALL with plastic bearings. BUT the CK7211 is MOOG's problem solver with a ball joint that has a powdered metal "gusher" bearing that continually lubricates the stud and is much more durable than the others. It also includes a Belleville washer that acts like a spring, keeping the internal components tight even as the metal bearing experiences wear down the road. The CK7211 will stay tighter much longer than the others including the RK7211. Good luck.

[gray...@gmail.com]

In my experience, (20 years working on cars, ASE Certified in suspension and brakes). If it's a car you're going to keep for a while, spend the money and put quality parts on your vehicle, moog for instance is about the best you can get. As far as the cheep Japan parts, STAY AWAY. I've had balljoints snap going down the road and causing major damage. And it was from one of the chain stores and it was still under warranty. And if the sell you a lifetime warranty, they have a customer for life. Even though you get the part free when you bring it back, you always buy other stuff as well. ALL moog parts ( except R-series) has a lifetime warranty. Most garages use cheap parts unless requested by the customer. So make sure your garage is using OE quality or better parts. Do yourself a favor and stay away from cheap parts.