RAM V10 and Cummins mileage: who knows?
b...@pryon.com
Down hill in a Hurricane maybe!
I have a 95 2500 Club 4X4 V10 5sp. I get about 10 mpg. I have gotten as high as 14-15 on long interstate
cruises. In reality I get around 10. In 4wd in the snow it will drop to 6-7. Pulling my boat (4000#) does not
effect my highway milage at all! In the city the boat will pull me down to 8-9 mpg.
It does have a taste for fine gasoline. It likes preimium much better than lower grades. If I fill it with
low octane reformulated gas it will suck down 30 gals before I get to the next gas station. Here in Milwaukee
they make us use reformulated gas(this stuff sucks) even premium reform. gas will onny get 8 mpg!
If you cruse faster than 75-80 on the highway you can write off any kind of milage (10mpg at best).
Of course if you want REALLY good milage you could get a deisel neon and haul it around in the back of the
Ram!
With the 5sp 70 MPH has the tach just below the sweet spot in the torque curve. Smash tour foot done on the
throttle and watch the speedo climb fast and the fuel gage drop faster!
I have put many miles on desiel and gas engines. They both have the uses! If your going to do alot of long
haul pulling then go desiel. If your going to sprint around town the go gas.
My to bits worth.
Mike B.
rwgagnon
>Does anyone have any REAL figures for either of these engines in a 3/4 ton
>4x4? Salesmen have said anywhere from 16 to 22mpg (highway) for the V10.
Don't believe it. I have a 360 1/2 ton auto with 3.92 rear which gets
a consistant 13 mpg on the highway (70mph average).
--
Rich Gagnon
rwga...@tiac.net
Aferdaise
In article <4dfiba$p...@hermes.oanet.com> Mike B. wrote:
>Does anyone have any REAL figures for either of these engines in a
3/4 ton
>4x4? Salesmen have said anywhere from 16 to 22mpg (highway) for
the V10.
Mike,
what dealer does this guy work out of !!
here are some real world MPG.
Cummins 4 spd auto, 4x4, long bed, club cab, 3:54 rear gears. I get
14-16 around town and 22 on the open road doing 70 with the AC on.
Same truck but with the V10, open road 17 and around town 10.
How do I know about the V10, my buddy bought the truck. I ordered 2
truck ALIKE one with each engine, I took the Cummins and I'm glad i
did. Now when you talk with a load on it, the mile REALLY goes down
on the V10 !
Hope this helps.
Tony/San Diego
Syntor x
John Airey
>Does anyone have any REAL figures for either of these engines in a 3/4 ton
>4x4? Salesmen have said anywhere from 16 to 22mpg (highway) for the V10.
I saw a post by a guy who got 9.5 miles with a camper in Baja California
using the V10.
I have a new 96 4x4 2500 club cab and I got 18.22 mpg unloaded on one of my
first tanks. I'm putting a camper on it in 3 weeks and we'll see how that
changes things.
The guy with the V10 claimed that diesel fuel was not available at the
Pemex stations it is supposed to be available at while he was there and
gasoline was available.
--
john m. airey ai...@sgi.com (415) 933-5248
M/S 7U-553 Silicon Graphics, Advanced Graphics Division
2011 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mtn. View, CA 94039
John Airey
>Tony;
>
>What about the performance differences? I have never driven a diesel. My
>point of reference is a talking to a neighbor who had an older diesel
>Ford. He list of negatives extended the positives. Those that I
>remember;
>
>1. The bad smell
>2. The rattling engine noise
>3. The fueling problem
> a. Few stations have diesel
> b. Diesel having a tendancy to foam in the fuel tank while filling
>wetting everything in sight.
>4 Poor performance. He did say that he had heard the new TURBO engines
>are better in this respect.
>5. High maintenance cost. I didn't ask him to elaborate.
You forgot the extra $4K charge to get a diesel engine in the first place.
>
>The positives;
>
>Better mileage. This is somewhat offset in this area because diesel is
>more expensive than gasoline.
>Very good pulling (lugging) power.
>Long engine life. I am assuming this is only true if one does the
>required maintenance as listed above.
>
>I hope I am not starting a "Diesel vs Gas" war. As with just about
>everything in life, there are tradeoffs. Since I am planning to buy a new
>pickup sometime in the next two years I would like to have the tradeoffs
>in my favor.
I'll take this chance to shoot off at the mouth (fingers) a bit, :-).
I wanted a truck to carry a camper for Surf and Fishing trips through
Mexico. I eventually got a '96 dodge 2500 4x4 club cab with the cummins turbo
diesel. (I previously had a toyota 4x4).
I got it for range on a single tank (600 miles) and because diesel
is available cheaply in mexico, also for the standard power, economy and
durability arguments that I have heard but don't know the full truth of yet.
I wasn't sure what I was getting into since I had never had a diesel or
even an american-made or a new vehicle for that matter. I knew
that the resale is good, so I figured if I didn't like it, I'd sell it to
some rancher in Alberta or something and chalk it up to life experience.
After two months I can say that I don't think it'll change your life
either way. The engine is loud, especially at idle and when cold, but is
not bad at all at highway speeds and I had a
honkin' after-market stereo system installed, :-).
It's more of a pain to find diesel at a good cost (varies from $1.25 to $1.50),
but it is available, just not on every street corner.
Performance Experiences:
------------------------
I metered one tank and got 18.22 mpg and I know that the truck can cruise
up a solid mountain grade at 70 mpg in 5th gear without showing
the slightest sign of struggling (unloaded), where I
would have been redlined in 3rd at 60 mph in my faithful toyota. The manual
says 440 ft-lbs of torque, 215 hp, but I heard the california model
(what I got) only makes 180 hp. whatever.
The truck redlines at 3K, has peak torque at 1.6K and peak horse at 2.6K
so it feels like you need to short-shift it (I have the manual xmission).
While it takes some getting used to, you won't
be causing traffic jams with slow driving or anything. I have heard that
the top speed of the pre-turbo cummins diesels is something like 75 mph while
the turbo ones have been reported as being able to hit 100, so I think the
turbo makes a big difference. I like to cruise at 70 on the highway so if it
didn't have the turbo, I might have been selling it to rancher, :-).
I'm sure the V10 is more fun to drive in the classical acceleration
sense (diesels are fun too in their way) but I heard that a guy with a
camper on a V10 got 9.5 mpg which knocks your range down a lot.
Other stuff:
------------
Diesel does get on your hands from the pump hose or gun
when you fill the truck if you don't use the little free gloves they give
you or otherwise use a rag, but this is not a show-stopper.
I haven't had any problems starting the thing, but of course I live in
a moderate climate and the vehicle is new.
With all the things that can affect one's life, I don't think the
gas/diesel truck decision is really life and death. If you want a little more
range and torque and aren't a picky person, take a $4K chance and
try the diesel truck.
If you are picky or fussy or can do just fine with a smaller range and less
torque, stick with a gasoline engine.
Barry Kashar
writes:
>Tony;
>
>What about the performance differences? I have never driven a diesel.
My
>point of reference is a talking to a neighbor who had an older diesel
>Ford. He list of negatives extended the positives. Those that I
>remember;
>
>1. The bad smell
>2. The rattling engine noise
>3. The fueling problem
> a. Few stations have diesel
> b. Diesel having a tendancy to foam in the fuel tank while
filling
>wetting everything in sight.
>4 Poor performance. He did say that he had heard the new TURBO
engines
>are better in this respect.
>5. High maintenance cost. I didn't ask him to elaborate.
>
>
>Better mileage. This is somewhat offset in this area because diesel
is
>more expensive than gasoline.
>Very good pulling (lugging) power.
>Long engine life. I am assuming this is only true if one does the
>required maintenance as listed above.
>
>I hope I am not starting a "Diesel vs Gas" war. As with just about
>everything in life, there are tradeoffs. Since I am planning to buy a
new
>pickup sometime in the next two years I would like to have the
tradeoffs
>in my favor.
>
>
a little louder and may not be rocket fast as a gas engine. But the
noise is more than offset by as much as twice the mileage as a gas
truck with the same pulling power, which is half the fuel cost and when
you own one you notice where the stations are and you have twice the
range (over 400 miles for most trucks, I believe). If you like gas go
for it if you like diesel do the same.
rwgagnon
>mblo...@datanet.ab.ca (Mike B.) wrote:
>>Does anyone have any REAL figures for either of these engines in a 3/4 ton
>>4x4? Salesmen have said anywhere from 16 to 22mpg (highway) for the V10.
>Don't believe it. I have a 360 1/2 ton auto with 3.92 rear which gets
>a consistant 13 mpg on the highway (70mph average).
Oh, and I forgot, my previous truck (3/4t 4x4 cummins with 3.54 rear)
got 20 mpg, with 33" tires at sea-level, 18mpg climbing the mountains
from 5000 to 9000 ft in Colorado.
--
Rich Gagnon
rwga...@tiac.net
Curtis Babb
I have a v-10 and Cummins.
With identical loads the fuel milage difference is only 4-6 mpg.
When you factor in the cummins engine costs about 3500 dollars more than
the v-10 it will take you about 150000 miles just to pay for the diesel
option.The v-10 pulls better is quieter,smoother and a blast to drive.
I'll buy another V-10 over a Cummins anyday.
CB Texas
RobertG511
John Airey
>Tony;
>
>What about the performance differences? I have never driven a diesel. My
>point of reference is a talking to a neighbor who had an older diesel
>Ford. He list of negatives extended the positives. Those that I
>remember;
>
>1. The bad smell
>2. The rattling engine noise
>3. The fueling problem
> a. Few stations have diesel
> b. Diesel having a tendancy to foam in the fuel tank while filling
>wetting everything in sight.
>4 Poor performance. He did say that he had heard the new TURBO engines
>are better in this respect.
>5. High maintenance cost. I didn't ask him to elaborate.
You forgot the extra $4K charge to get a diesel engine in the first place.
>
>The positives;
>
>Better mileage. This is somewhat offset in this area because diesel is
>more expensive than gasoline.
>Very good pulling (lugging) power.
>Long engine life. I am assuming this is only true if one does the
>required maintenance as listed above.
>
>I hope I am not starting a "Diesel vs Gas" war. As with just about
>everything in life, there are tradeoffs. Since I am planning to buy a new
>pickup sometime in the next two years I would like to have the tradeoffs
>in my favor.
I'll take this chance to shoot off at the mouth (fingers) a bit, :-).
Aferdaise
In article <4dl7a8$7...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> RobertG511 wrote:
>Tony;
>
>What about the performance differences? I have never driven a
diesel. My
>point of reference is a talking to a neighbor who had an older
diesel
>Ford. He list of negatives extended the positives. Those that I
>remember;
>
>1. The bad smell
>2. The rattling engine noise
>3. The fueling problem
> a. Few stations have diesel
> b. Diesel having a tendancy to foam in the fuel tank while
filling
>wetting everything in sight.
>4 Poor performance. He did say that he had heard the new TURBO
engines
>are better in this respect.
>5. High maintenance cost. I didn't ask him to elaborate.
>
Robert you are talking about a Older Ford deisel and a new Cummings
Turbo Deisel, why not compare apple to apple..
For off, the Cummins engine is a DIrect Injected Engine it's not as
nosey as the old Ford Engine, I don't have a Fuel problem I know
where to get my fuel in town and on the road, YOU can go to ANY
truck stop and get #2 deisel fuel. Yes deisel fuel foams, but I
haven't had a problem with that. Poor Performance, hell my man get
out and test drive the Cummins first before making any comments.
THis engine JUMPS off the line.. High maintencacne cost, excuse me
NO tunes, no spark plugs just oil ,oil filters and fuel filter...
robert before posting make sure you really know what you are
tlaking about.. The new deisel engines aren't like the engine from
the 80's !
also My cummins eninge well last mim 300K miles before any majot
engine work is needed !
>The positives;
>
>Better mileage. This is somewhat offset in this area because
diesel is
>more expensive than gasoline.
>Very good pulling (lugging) power.
>Long engine life. I am assuming this is only true if one does the
>required maintenance as listed above.
>
>I hope I am not starting a "Diesel vs Gas" war. As with just
about
>everything in life, there are tradeoffs. Since I am planning to
buy a new
>pickup sometime in the next two years I would like to have the
tradeoffs
>in my favor.
>
Robert,
I get deisel cheaper then Gas, usally 2-3 cents cheaper...
Tony
L. Albaugh
>
>In article <4dl7a8$7...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> RobertG511 wrote:
>>Tony;
>>What about the performance differences? I have never driven a
>diesel. My point of reference is a talking to a neighbor who had an >>older diesel Ford. He list of negatives extended the positi=
>>everything in life, there are tradeoffs. Since I am planning to buy a >>new pickup sometime in the next two years I would like to=
have the
>tradeoffs in my favor.
>>
I own a 95 Ram with a 5.9l Cummins Turbo diesel. I must say that the
first post is correct on several counts. The new diesel motors do run
considerably quieter than the earlier models. Since he was comparing it
to a gas motor, one must acknowledge that the cab noise of a diesel is
louder. Locating diesel fuel is not the problem it used to be for the
average motorist. Diesel will foam as indicated, but usually it is
secondary to the dispeser or pump that the fuel is being drawn from, and
by regulating the flow, much of that problem can be resolved. True, the
new direct injection, and addition of turbos has greatly increased the
performance of todays diesel motors.
Routine maintanence cost for the diesel are substanially higher than a
gas motor. First the typical diesel (Cummins, International Harvester,
or Detroit Diesel) used in todays pickups require service as often as a
typical gas motor. I would even say more frequently depending on the
type of use and abuse it may be subjected to. These motors will hold
somewhere between 11 and 13 quarts of oil, whereas the gas motor may only
hold 6. Oil filters are designed for higher operating pressure, and are
usually larger, and the cost reflects these differences. I have a
friend that uses a "Jet Lube" for oil changes, and he says it is
usually about $45. Some of those places will do a gas pickup for
less than 20 bucks.
Diesel fuel seems to hold water more than gas, so fuel filters need to be
changed more frequently, again these filters are typically larger, and
cost more.
You commented that there were no tuneups or spark plugs to deal with.
These motors still need regular valve adjustments, and glow plugs do wear
out. Based on your comments, I don't think your motor will last anywhere
near 300,000 miles. Read your owners manual.
My truck is a 4x4 and averages 21mpg empty on the road, and 15 around
town. Diesel prices seem higher to me, however I tend to avoid the low
price stuff as I have had problems with it in the past(water and crap).
I think that the first post was legitimate, and as he said all the
information he had came from a neighbor. I think he had a good question,
and anyone in his position should really consider all points prior to
plunking down an additional 3 or 4 grand on the diesel option. Don't
brow beat the poor guy, and learn to spell diesel.
Larry
Odile Dumbleton
On 18 Jan 1996, RobertG511 wrote:
> Ford. He list of negatives extended the positives. Those that I
> remember;
>
> 1. The bad smell
I saw an interesting post somewhere which remarked that most of the
problem with the diesel fuel smell comes from tracking it into the cab on
your shoes, where it sits and smells, not evaporating like gasoline.
Odile Dumbleton <afn2...@afn.org>
Roger Adams
> RAM V10 and Cummins mileage: who knows?
>
> mblo...@datanet.ab.ca (Mike B.)
> 16 Jan 1996 06:58:50 GMT
> PG DataNet Inc
>
> Newsgroups:
> rec.autos.makers.chrysler
>
> Does anyone have any REAL figures for either of these engines in a 3/4
ton
> 4x4? Salesmen have said anywhere from 16 to 22mpg (highway) for the
V10.
BEWARE!!!!! Salesman speak with forked tongue. Mine is a 1 ton 2wd and
it's best was 14mpg. It is still one hell of a truck.
Roger
RobertG511
of engines have their pro and con.
I posted a couple of questions to a previous poster and got an attaching
responds. When the response is irrattional it is obvious the respondent
is biased.
Thank you. I hope others will give their findings so those of us who are
undecided about the V10 engine version the Cummins are getting solid
facts.
Aferdaise
In article <30FF16...@pan-tex.net> Curtis Babb wrote:
>I have a v-10 and Cummins.
>With identical loads the fuel milage difference is only 4-6 mpg.
>When you factor in the cummins engine costs about 3500 dollars
more than
>the v-10 it will take you about 150000 miles just to pay for the
diesel
>option.The v-10 pulls better is quieter,smoother and a blast to
drive.
>I'll buy another V-10 over a Cummins anyday.
>CB Texas
Crutis,
How much you paying for fuel ? I just paid 123.9 for deisel,
premium Unleaded at the same station was 145.9/gallon. I get 22 on
the open road with my truck, my buddy with his V10 gets 15. When I
tow, I get 14-16 my buddy gets 9-11. with that type of price
difference it wont take long for myself to pay off the deisel
option, now will it ?
But trucks are the same, 4x4 club cabs, long bed, 3:54's auto..
Tony
Brad Budlong
> How much you paying for fuel ? I just paid 123.9 for deisel,
> premium Unleaded at the same station was 145.9/gallon. I get 22 on
> the open road with my truck, my buddy with his V10 gets 15. When I
> tow, I get 14-16 my buddy gets 9-11. with that type of price
> difference it wont take long for myself to pay off the deisel
> option, now will it ?
>
> But trucks are the same, 4x4 club cabs, long bed, 3:54's auto..
>
> Tony
>
I'll do the math for you. First I doubt that the V10 requires premium
fuel. In general I've found that diesel in some locations is more
expensive that normal unleaded and at other times or locations is
cheaper than normal unleaded. I think it is fair to say that the price
is on average comparable. So, as an example the following calculations
are for each engine for 100,000 miles using your figures for unloaded
mileage and a fuel price of $1.239
Diesel: 100,000 miles / 22 mpg = 4545 gal
4545 gal * $1.239/gal = $5631
Gas: 100,000 miles / 15 mpg = 6666 gal
6666 gal * $1.239/gal = $8259
The difference for 100,000 miles is $2,628. This means that the $3,500
cost would be paid for in 133,181 miles.
For some people this is a lot of miles, and for others it isn't much.
I have 40,000 miles on my 1995 diesel and that's one of the reasons I
bought a diesel. If I was only going to drive 15,000 miles a year I
would have seriously considered the gas engine.
- Brad Budlong
John Airey
>
>In article <30FF16...@pan-tex.net> Curtis Babb wrote:
>>I have a v-10 and Cummins.
>>With identical loads the fuel milage difference is only 4-6 mpg.
>>When you factor in the cummins engine costs about 3500 dollars
>more than
>>the v-10 it will take you about 150000 miles just to pay for the
>diesel
>>option.The v-10 pulls better is quieter,smoother and a blast to
>drive.
>>I'll buy another V-10 over a Cummins anyday.
>>CB Texas
>
>Crutis,
>
>premium Unleaded at the same station was 145.9/gallon. I get 22 on
>the open road with my truck, my buddy with his V10 gets 15. When I
>tow, I get 14-16 my buddy gets 9-11. with that type of price
>difference it wont take long for myself to pay off the deisel
>option, now will it ?
Well.....
using your numbers (mpg, $/gallon),
1.239 $/gallon / 22 m/gallon the diesel = $.056318 per mile,
1.459 $/gallon / 15 m/gallon the V10 = $.097266 per mile
for a difference of $.04094 per mile.
Since the cummins costs about $4K extra, that means you
need to drive 4000/(.097266-.056318) = about 100,000 miles. It's actually
worse than that since you could have invested that $4K and made money
over the period of time you are catching up to the the V10.
100,000 miles is pretty far don't you think?
I own the cummins myself so don't bother flaming me... In any case,
why choose between the v10 and the cummins, what's wrong with the
standard 5.7L magnum V8? I think it'll also do most jobs you ask of
it and it's certain to be cheaper than the V10 both initially
and over time.
>
>But trucks are the same, 4x4 club cabs, long bed, 3:54's auto..
>
>Tony
>
--
Aferdaise
In article <4dunhl$m...@fido.asd.sgi.com> John Airey wrote:
> 100,000 miles is pretty far don't you think?
>
100K far, not really. My last truck I had 210K on before selling
it. It was a Gm 6.2L desiel didn't have any problems with the
engine. I planned on keeping this truck for another 200K.
> I own the cummins myself so don't bother flaming me... In any
case,
> why choose between the v10 and the cummins, what's wrong with
the
> standard 5.7L magnum V8? I think it'll also do most jobs you
ask of
> it and it's certain to be cheaper than the V10 both initially
> and over time.
>
Do you think the V10 OR the 5.8l engine can go 200K before a
rebuild ?
Why did you get a cummins if the V10 is such a great deal???
Tony
Barry Kashar
>
case,
> why choose between the v10 and the cummins, what's wrong with the
> standard 5.7L magnum V8? I think it'll also do most jobs you ask
of
> it and it's certain to be cheaper than the V10 both initially
> and over time.
>
>>
>>But trucks are the same, 4x4 club cabs, long bed, 3:54's auto..
>>
>>Tony
>>
> I'll throw in my two cents worth...I was fortunate enough to get a
used '90 Cummins 3.5 years ago, its now worth $500 more than I paid for
it. So resale should be considered into the equation. My suggestion is
to try to arrange driving each over a weekend, a dealer may be willing
to work with you given the cost of either truck. By the way what are
the fuel tank sizes of either truck?
bob fritz
>
With my 95 4wd 3500 with utility body and camper for GVW just under 10,000 lbs,
I'm getting 9.25 mpg. My pre-purchase calculations led me to the V10
over the diesel, based on results similar to what was in this
thread previously. The irony is that all our Baja friends insisted that diesel was best
since they never run out of diesel - this Christmas diesel was scarce
but we managed to get gas without a major issue (some stations were out)
Ralph Kinser
: >
: I'll do the math for you. First I doubt that the V10 requires premium
: fuel. In general I've found that diesel in some locations is more
: expensive that normal unleaded and at other times or locations is
: cheaper than normal unleaded. I think it is fair to say that the price
: is on average comparable. So, as an example the following calculations
: are for each engine for 100,000 miles using your figures for unloaded
: mileage and a fuel price of $1.239
: Diesel: 100,000 miles / 22 mpg = 4545 gal
: 4545 gal * $1.239/gal = $5631
: Gas: 100,000 miles / 15 mpg = 6666 gal
: 6666 gal * $1.239/gal = $8259
: The difference for 100,000 miles is $2,628. This means that the $3,500
: cost would be paid for in 133,181 miles.
: For some people this is a lot of miles, and for others it isn't much.
: I have 40,000 miles on my 1995 diesel and that's one of the reasons I
: bought a diesel. If I was only going to drive 15,000 miles a year I
: would have seriously considered the gas engine.
: - Brad Budlong
Time to throw my $.02 in. First off, you shouldn't use the best unloaded
milage for the calculation unless of course you are only going to drive
freeways. I suggest using around town milage, using $1.239/gal you get,
Cummins: $1.239/gal / 17mpg = $.0729/mile or $7,288 for 100,000 miles.
V10: $1.239/gal / 11mpg = $.1126/mile or 11,263 for 100,000 miles.
Now for the rest of the story, the cost differance is not as great as
people have been quoting. For a Dodge SLT, you pay more for the SLT
package if you buy the V10. The numbers are:
Invoice List prices are '95
V10 STL: 2612.90 3074.00
V10 399.50 470.00
V10 Total 3012.40 3544.00
Cummins SLT 2285.65 2689.00
Cummins 3520.70 4142.00
Cummins Total 5806.35 6831.00
Cost Delta 2793.95 3287.00
Since I paid a fixed amount over invoice on my Dodge, the added cost of
the Cummins is $2793.93. Using the around town milage, breakeven takes
70,000 miles. For the best unloaded hiway milage, breakeven takes
106,000 miles.
I think you need to do your own calculations to decide for yourself.
For most of us, the improved fuel milage vs time to breakeven can
be a tuff choice. On the positive side, if you include some resale
value assumptions, the breakeven point will be much sooner than
the miles calculated above.
--
Ralph Kinser ral...@cv.hp.com
Hewlett Packard
Mobile Computing Division Corvallis,Oregon
Syntor x
straight 6 ford F250.
Brad Budlong
bought a diesel should know about. There is a federal tax credit for
the purchase of a new diesel truck with GVW under 10,000 lbs. The
credit is a little under $200, and this is a credit not a deduction so
it is a direct savings. This is a lot less than the $4,000 option
price, but every little bit helps.
- Brad Budlong
Aferdaise
In article <4e5qgr$o...@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com> Edward J. Kelly
wrote:
>The whole which engine will run the longest is rather academic.
>My 225 /6 D100 has >180K and still strong... The 5.2L v8, 5.9L
V8,
>5.9L I6, and the 8.0L V10 should have no problems going well
beyond
>the 200K mark before needing a rebuild...
Ed,
I do know about the 5.9L Cummins engines, when it comes the smaller
V8 engines.
Tony
Curt
What about reliability? And maintenance costs? I've never owned a
diesel, but our diesel fire trucks/ambulance maintenance is less than
for the gas trucks.
Also, the rebuild on the cummins is 300,000 miles.
I dunno. You tell me what you think. For psychological reasons at
the pump I would choose the cummins in my new truck (i shudder every
time I have to fill both tanks on my damned ford). Still undecided if
the the 4k is worth it over the 5.9l gas.
-Curt
Edward J. Kelly
In article <4e17va$f...@news-e2a.gnn.com>, afer...@gnn.com (Aferdaise) writes:
>
> In article <4dunhl$m...@fido.asd.sgi.com> John Airey wrote:
> >
>
> it. It was a Gm 6.2L desiel didn't have any problems with the
> engine. I planned on keeping this truck for another 200K.
>
> case,
> > why choose between the v10 and the cummins, what's wrong with
> the
> > standard 5.7L magnum V8? I think it'll also do most jobs you
> ask of
> > it and it's certain to be cheaper than the V10 both initially
>
> > and over time.
> >
>
> rebuild ?
>
> Why did you get a cummins if the V10 is such a great deal???
>
I thought this was supposed to be r.a.m.c. You guys don't seem to
know your Chrysler engines very well... The 5.7 is a Chevy and the
5.8 is a Ford...
The whole which engine will run the longest is rather academic.
My 225 /6 D100 has >180K and still strong... The 5.2L v8, 5.9L V8,
5.9L I6, and the 8.0L V10 should have no problems going well beyond
the 200K mark before needing a rebuild...
Unless you run them without oil, for a few K miles...:)
--
Ed Kelly c2x...@eng.delcoelect.com
edk...@holli.com Delco Electronics
'87 Shadow 2.2l 5-sp 131K miles Software Engineer
'85 D100 225 /6 4-sp 187K miles '97 Flint V6 PCM
DanPlym
>> it. It was a Gm 6.2L desiel didn't have any problems with the
> >engine. I planned on keeping this truck for another 200K.
You sound VERY lucky! I've got a GM 6.2 that only recently turned a 100K,
and I've lost track of all the money I've pumped into it! I've only got a
few thousand on a rebuilt fuel injector pump, and it acts like the damn
thing is going again. A good, independent diesel mechanic here in town
assured me that the GM & International diesels (Ford) were both lost
causes. He said the Cummins was the ONLY one worth bothering with.
Aferdaise
In article <4e8bl4$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> DanPlym wrote:
>You sound VERY lucky! I've got a GM 6.2 that only recently turned
a 100K,
>and I've lost track of all the money I've pumped into it! I've
only got a
>few thousand on a rebuilt fuel injector pump, and it acts like the
damn
>thing is going again. A good, independent diesel mechanic here in
town
>assured me that the GM & International diesels (Ford) were both
lost
>causes. He said the Cummins was the ONLY one worth bothering
with.
Dan,
I had my share of transmisson problems with my Chevy, I had on
injector pump replaced.
GM is lost when it comes to diesel's, and ford is playing catch up.
But the Cummins is the king!
Tony
Curtis Babb
>
> why choose between the v10 and the cummins, what's wrong with the
> it and it's certain to be cheaper than the V10 both initially
> and over time.
>
> >
> >
> >Tony
> >
>
>
> john m. airey ai...@sgi.com (415) 933-5248
> M/S 7U-553 Silicon Graphics, Advanced Graphics Division
just got back from my arizona trip in my v-10.Talked to a man from
florida with a 5.7 pulling a 14000 lb 5th wheel and loves the truck and
engine.
Aferdaise
In article <310C05...@pan-tex.net> Curtis Babb wrote:
>just got back from my arizona trip in my v-10.Talked to a man from
>florida with a 5.7 pulling a 14000 lb 5th wheel and loves the
truck and
>engine.
Well what kind of mileage did yuo get with your V-10?
Tony
Curtis Babb
85 on 99 cent reg nolead with a 1400lb load in the back got 15.1 mpg
Aferdaise
In article <310EF7...@pan-tex.net> Curtis Babb wrote:
> TonyRunning mostly interstate at 70 to 75 mph with lows to 65 and
highs
> to
>85 on 99 cent reg nolead with a 1400lb load in the back got 15.1
mpg
That is really good, that is the best I have heard from V10 owner.
Tony
Burt Peterson
WOW!!! I better take mine into the shop!!! I have yet to get that kind of
milage. On cheap gas it will drop down to 8 MPG. I have put many miles on the
highway and the best that I got is about 14. But that is at 55-65 MPH. When I
push it up to 75-85 (Way to easy to do!) The milage drops into the 10's.
It is 4WD and 5 Speed if that makes a diff.
My $0.02
-Burt
Curtis Babb
replaced mine,no charge.I dont know anyone with a v-10 4x4.I do have
friends with v-8 4x4s and there milage is typically 2 to 3 mpg less than
v-8 2x4.Also check your rpm,I have the auto trans and when the overdrive
kickes in at 60 mph the rpm is 1625 and at 70 is 1900rpm which is
probably the reason for the better milage,buts its just a guess.
I also tryed some 85 octane gas it wasnt good,87 works perfectly with 92
octane giving me no advantage.
cb
Curtis Babb
ps
Dodge found a problem with the fuel rail on v-10s and is testing a new
one.On my truck it causes intermittent rough ,other engines may be
affected differently.Should have a fix soon mayby.
Glen Atkins
That's great! I only have 900 miles on mine
(3/4 ton Club Cab 4x4 v-10 5-sp). My tanks
have been 10.54, 11.82, 10.52. Mostly around
town, the last one included pulling a two-horse
trailer with one horse in it (approx 2800 lbs).
Hope I can look forward to your mileage as mine
gets broken in!!
Glen
Curtis
>
> Glen Atkins (gat...@lvld.hp.com) wrote:
> : WOW,
> My tanks have been 20.6, 16.8 and 18.35. The first tank was
> mostly freeway at 65 to 75 mph. The other two tanks are back
> and forth to work (11 miles each way) and around town. Just
> thought it would be a good comparision since both trucks
> are the same except engine.
>
> Ralph
>
> ------------------------------------------------> -------------------------------------------------
I have 48000 miles on my cummins and 18000 miles on my v-10.Under
identical situations both trucks are within 4-6 mpg of each
other.When i pull loads in the 25000-30000 tgvw range both trucks get
about 8mpg
Ralph Kinser
Aferdaise
In article <4entl0$q...@homer.alpha.net> Burt Peterson wrote:
>WOW!!! I better take mine into the shop!!! I have yet to get that
kind of
>milage. On cheap gas it will drop down to 8 MPG. I have put many
miles on
> the
>highway and the best that I got is about 14. But that is at 55-65
MPH.
> When I
>push it up to 75-85 (Way to easy to do!) The milage drops into the
10's.
>
>It is 4WD and 5 Speed if that makes a diff.
>
>My $0.02
>-Burt
Your truck is fine, typical V10. I get 22 doing 70, with the AC on
with my cummins powered truck. I'll just keep laughing to the bank.
Tony
Aferdaise
In article <4eqmqn$h...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> Glen Atkins wrote:
>Hope I can look forward to your mileage as mine
>gets broken in!!
>
>
In your dreams !
Tony
Glen Atkins
Least my place doesn't smell like a truck stop.
V-10 more horsepower, lower payments, I took the
extra $3500 and bought a CD, the interest will easily
cover the added fuel cost, plus I still have the $3500!
Burt Peterson
miles on my v10. Aftet that, then you can laugh....
Aferdaise
In article <4f56u6$g...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> Glen Atkins wrote:
>Least my place doesn't smell like a truck stop.
>
>V-10 more horsepower, lower payments, I took the
>extra $3500 and bought a CD, the interest will easily
>cover the added fuel cost, plus I still have the $3500!
>
Glen,
1. So far my "place" doesn't smell like a truck stop.
2. I paid dealer price plus $100 bucks for my truck, ALOT less
then you paid for your truck. <Uncle works for Dodge>
3. I paid cash for my truck. Read NO PAYMENTS
4. I had a alpine system with CD changer installed in my truck and
still spent less then you did.
Now that we sound like kids, how about getting to the real issue. I
bought my truck to last me 10 years like my last truck, which
happened to be a Diesel went 190K miles with no engine work. So far
in a years time, Ihave alittle under 40K miles on my truck. I plan
on putting 300k plus on my truck. Your V10 or what ever engine you
have wont last that long before needing to rebuilt. THAT IS FACT.
Tony/ Still laughing to the bank
Once again, WHO IS LAUGHING ! hahaha
Tony
Keith Gardner
>>>Hope I can look forward to your mileage as mine
>>>gets broken in!!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>In your dreams !
>>
>>Tony
>>
>
>
>
>V-10 more horsepower, lower payments, I took the
>extra $3500 and bought a CD, the interest will easily
>cover the added fuel cost, plus I still have the $3500!
>
better, and everybody has their own way of justifying their choice. I got a
diesel myself, and I could give a shit about all of these numbers being thrown
around. I am content in knowing my engine will get better mileage than the
V-10, and should last considerably longer. Plus, I just have a warm spot in my
heart for the sounds a diesel. Is that V-10 a proven engine? I don't think so.
So keep on crunching numbers, boys. Meanwhile everybody will be out
buying what they really want. The most any of you can hope to do is to merely
make somebody's choice seem like the right choice. If you own a Ram, be it a
Cummins _OR_ a V-10, you ought to be happy to have it. Maybe some of this is
just over-justification. You really don't need to persuade anyone - unless
you're selling them.
I like pulling 20,000 pounds around with my diesel. Sure beats the
Chevy 350 I used to use.
Keith
John Airey
If you care, I just put a 1800lb camper (an Alaskan telescoping kind that
reduces wind resistance while tooling down the freeway) on my
'96 4x4 club cab 2500 cummins-turbo-diesel powered, 5 speed truck.
With 600lbs of sand in the back as a ride-smoother, but otherwise unloaded,
mostly freeway driving at 70 I had got as high as 19.5 mpg.
Driving 3 miles to work and back, I got as low as 16.6 mpg.
With the 1800lb camper, driving down the oregon and california coast back
to the SF bay area, I got 16.26 mpg. I was hoping for more than that, but
that's what I measured. The truck has 4500 miles on it. I can imagine that
with better weather and flatter ground it might be slightly better than that,
but I wouldn't count on it.
The truck has been flawless so far and drives the camper up steep hills with
no problems. All in all, I don't have any complaints and I hope it'll stay that
way.
Aferdaise
In article <1996020514...@gatekeeper.pryon.com> Burt
>Tony don't laugh too hard. $4000 more for the cummins works out to
34,000 f
>ree
>miles on my v10. Aftet that, then you can laugh....
>
Burt,
I have 40K miles on my truck and it's a '95, so who is laughing?
Also that is retail for the cummins enigne, I didn't pay retail for
my truck, I paid $100 dealer cost for my truck. It pays to have a
relative work for CC.
Tony/ With a big grin on his face.
Curtis
>
> In <4f56u6$g...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> Glen Atkins <gat...@lvld.hp.com>
> writes:
> >
> >afer...@gnn.com (Aferdaise) wrote:
> >>
> >>In article <4eqmqn$h...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> Glen Atkins wrote:
> >>>Hope I can look forward to your mileage as mine
> >>>gets broken in!!
> >>>
> >>>
> we just agree to disagree and end this?
This the last time I'll say anything on this subject so don't trash me.I
like my cummins and I like my V-10,but when it comes to high profile
loads over 16000 tgvw the cummins stays home. When you have hills,high
winds,high elevation and high ambient temps the V-10 just does a better
job.I don't want to make anybody mad its just what works for me.
Syntor x
>
>Your truck is fine, typical V10. I get 22 doing 70, with the AC on
>with my cummins powered truck. I'll just keep laughing to the bank.
>
>Tony
>
>Tony don't laugh too hard. $4000 more for the cummins works out to 34,000
free
>miles on my v10. Aftet that, then you can laugh....
I already have 65K on my 94 cummins its a riot HaHaHaHahah
Glen Atkins
>
>In article <4f56u6$g...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> Glen Atkins wrote:
>>Least my place doesn't smell like a truck stop.
>>
>>V-10 more horsepower, lower payments, I took the
>>extra $3500 and bought a CD, the interest will easily
>>cover the added fuel cost, plus I still have the $3500!
>>
>
>
>1. So far my "place" doesn't smell like a truck stop.
>
You must have enough wind on start-up ;-)
>2. I paid dealer price plus $100 bucks for my truck, ALOT less
>then you paid for your truck. <Uncle works for Dodge>
Good for you!! Wish I had that luck
>
>3. I paid cash for my truck. Read NO PAYMENTS
>
Again good for you, I'd still have invested the $4k
>4. I had a alpine system with CD changer installed in my truck and
>still spent less then you did.
>
Again good for you. (but I did get a hell of a deal)
>Now that we sound like kids, how about getting to the real issue. I
>bought my truck to last me 10 years like my last truck, which
>happened to be a Diesel went 190K miles with no engine work. So far
>in a years time, Ihave alittle under 40K miles on my truck. I plan
>on putting 300k plus on my truck. Your V10 or what ever engine you
>have wont last that long before needing to rebuilt. THAT IS FACT.
>
I wouldn't be the slightest bit suprised if MY v-10 last as
long (calander time)as your diesel. We typically only put
10,000 miles on one in a year! Our commute (when we use the
Dodge, not other vehicles) is only 4 miles, so the diesel
would not perform as it was designed in our short trips.
If I drove the kind of mileage you do, I'd have bought the
diesel, but I don't, so I bought the best fit for what I
wanted.
Now can we end this pissing contest and get back to what we
ALL can agree on..... Doge builds damn nice trucks!!
Glen
RobertG511
market for a new vehicle in the near future.
All emotions apart; I now know that both the Cummins diesel and the gas
V10 have pros and cons. How a person weighs these pros and cons will
determine what they buy. "Just the facts, ma'am", (for you younger
readers, this was a statement repeatedly made by a detective on a
1950s-60s TV show) definitely is biased by each individuals likes and
dislikes. Unfortunately, I am still equally divided between the two.
Srayne1
The intake gasket gets sucked into the intake passageways causing a miss
at idle condition (and sometimes a whistle noise). At cruse speeds this
can cause slightly more fuel consumption due to incorrect M.A.P. sensor
readings. There is a T.S.B on this problem, if U have any questions E-Mail
me at Sra...@aol.com and I can get T.S.B. # if needed......Also any
questions on driveabilty problems with Chrysler autos & trucks I will try
to answer..
Burt Peterson
afer...@gnn.com (Aferdaise) wrote:
>
>In article <4f9tl1$9...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> RobertG511 wrote:
>>All emotions apart; I now know that both the Cummins diesel and
>the gas
>>V10 have pros and cons. How a person weighs these pros and cons
>will
>>determine what they buy. "Just the facts, ma'am", (for you
>younger
>>readers, this was a statement repeatedly made by a detective on a
>>1950s-60s TV show) definitely is biased by each individuals likes
>and
>>dislikes. Unfortunately, I am still equally divided between the
>two.
>>
>
>keep my truck for at lease 10year, in 10yrs I plan on putting 300K+
>miles on it. By then the V10 would have been rebuilt at lease once
>if not twice. Do the cost of operation would be less for the
>Cummins then the V10.
>
>Tony
>
I have never seen a vehicle go 300K that didn't require a lot more money in
keeping the drive line and suspension running then whatever went into the
motor.
Yes I suppose that when my truck reaches 300K it will have 1 or 2 $1000
rebuilds on the motor(Of course I don't give a shit because I won't own it
anyway). After 15K I put have already put $750 it tires onit. I am sure that
the shocks, pads, bushings,.....ect will all be replaced along with sevral
sets of tires before the motor gets rebuilt. (Christ, an oil change at whippy
lube will set you back $75-$100).
While having the motor rebuilt is a big cash layout all at once that hurts the
old wallet, it is not really a significant expence in owning the truck. After
100k miles you will have spent a lot more than the grand to rebuild it.
Personally I DON"T keep vehicles for 100k+ miles. I put on about 12-15K per
year and I sell it for whatever I can get for it after 40K-50K. Then I buy
another vehicle for cash (if I can't pay for it I don't need it). If Dodge
keeps up the good work I will by another, if not, I won't.
As far as getting sone kind of deal one your truck...NO MATTER what kind of
deal you work out on your truck, unless you work for CUMMINS (not CC) the
diesel will still cost you $3500-$4000. Remember CC buys motors from CUMMINS
who, by the way, is owned in part by Ford.
In all honesty if I by another RAM (97-98) I will look seriously at the diesel
option. Not because I have any dislike for gasoline, because the quarter
landed on the table 'tails'.
-Later
My $0.02
Barry Kashar
writes:
$1000 rebuilds, what's the name of your machine shop? I would
expect a minimum of adding a zero (and maybe dividing by 2).
Aferdaise
In article <4ffh9e$i...@homer.alpha.net> Burt Peterson wrote:
>As far as getting sone kind of deal one your truck...NO MATTER
what kind
> of
>deal you work out on your truck, unless you work for CUMMINS (not
CC) the
>diesel will still cost you $3500-$4000. Remember CC buys motors
from
> CUMMINS
>who, by the way, is owned in part by Ford.
>
Burt,
If you knew what CC charges the dealers for the Cummins engines you
wouldn't have made that comment.
I paid $100 over DEALER cost, not invoice cost. I also paid CASH
for my truck.
The dealer charges $36 for oil changes, So why would i go to a
place that charges 50-100 bucks !
There is a breaking point for the Cummins over the V10, and I have
past that point already. So the cost per mileage is less then that
of a V10 ! enough said
Tony
Chris Hedemark
Indeed. I drive a V-10 truck myself (suits my purposes better) but I
recognize that the Cummins is one hell of an engine, even compared to
other deisels. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges. There are
pros and cons to each. Yes, deisel trucks are noisy and slow, but they
live longer than the trucks they're installed in (your body will be
rusted to hell before the engine dies). But I mean this in the best way
possible <GRIN>
However, on the flip side, I enjoy better performance than just about any
other factory truck (yes, even trouncing the former champion Chevy 454SS
with ease). I enjoy a quiter ride than most modern sedans. And
absolutely NO fuel odors (granted, the deisels have come a long way in
this respect, but their will always be odors associated with burning
deisel). However, I will be lucky to see the other side of 100K miles
without some kind of major overhaul. And my gas mileage reminds me of my
1971 Boss 351 Mustang (okay, maybe the Ram is a LITTLE better).
If you pull 20,000 lbs, I'm sure I could do that with my V10, but I would
probably opt for the deisel if I were going to do this on a regular
basis. Therefore, the deisel was the perfect engine for your purposes.
If, however, you're like me (never pull anything, drive like Mad Max, and
change cars/trucks every couple of years) then you'd probably enjoy the
V10 more. It is better suited for me.
I applaud Dodge for offering two equally impressive engines to appeal to
opposite ends of the pickup truck spectrum. I'd rather see this rivalry
pointed at the poor saps who settled for Fords or Chevys or (heaven
forbid) Toyotas. But that would be too easy. :)
--
Christian Hedemark
war...@cybrgate.com
Personal Homepage: http://www.voicenet.com/~warthog
NEW! Dodge Ram Homepage: http://www.voicenet.com/~warthog/ramtruck-l
Chris Hedemark
>Least my place doesn't smell like a truck stop.
LOL!
I guess he's used to having the neighbors come running out with their
garbage bags when he drives by, thinking the trash truck has arrived
early! <just kidding!>
>V-10 more horsepower, lower payments, I took the
>extra $3500 and bought a CD, the interest will easily
>cover the added fuel cost, plus I still have the $3500!
I have the V10 and love it. No, the mileage isn't that hot. But so far
I've blown away any other truck that's challenged my road superiority.
In fact, that was one of the selling points for me when I wasn't sure if
I wanted the V10 or the 360; when I was test driving the truck, a young
fool in a Chevy 454SS thought he was in the same class as the might Ram.
Turns out he wasn't running on all ten cylinders, if you know what I
mean, so I taught him a few lessons in Real Truck 101.
Next stop: Borla exhaust & headers
Chris Hedemark
>In my last post I stated I went with the V10 because I was going to
>keep my truck for at lease 10year, in 10yrs I plan on putting 300K+
>miles on it. By then the V10 would have been rebuilt at lease once
>if not twice. Do the cost of operation would be less for the
>Cummins then the V10.
While the V10 is too new an engine to know for sure how long we can
expect it to last (I own a V10 so this is not an inflammatory post), the
Cummins can be expected to hit the 300K mark *without* any kind of major
overhaul. In fact, seeing one of these things at 100K is seeing an
engine in its prime (they seem better at 100K than at 10K). If you want
a 10yr engine, you are really gambling with the V10. With the Cummins,
the only gamble is whether the truck itself will last for 10 yrs.
Aferdaise
In article <960211201...@voicenet.com> Chris Hedemark wrote:
>While the V10 is too new an engine to know for sure how long we
can
>expect it to last (I own a V10 so this is not an inflammatory
post), the
>Cummins can be expected to hit the 300K mark *without* any kind of
major
>overhaul. In fact, seeing one of these things at 100K is seeing
an
>engine in its prime (they seem better at 100K than at 10K). If
you want
>a 10yr engine, you are really gambling with the V10. With the
Cummins,
>the only gamble is whether the truck itself will last for 10 yrs.
>
Chris,
You get no flame from me, yes th Cummins engine run better at 100K
then at 10K. Reason for it, it's starting to break in. I have a M-B
Deisel 87 300SDL, it now has 110K miles on it. I'm getting better
mileage today then I did when it had 50K miles.
Tony
RON HILLMAN
--
RON HILLMAN
r...@smartlink.net
Sacramento CA To Toronto Ontario in a 94 B2500 Ram pickup with a Cummins
unloaded $170.00 fuel costs.
ron
Aferdaise
In article <2c7cc$162f1...@news.nmaa.org> philbrook wrote:
>Hey, Tony, (and others) -
>I know this isn't the intent of this newsgroup, but what method of
the few
>I've
>heard about did you use to determine dealer cost? I'm in the
market and
>doing research, particularly on the cummins/Ram.
>
>Phil...@nmaa.org
>
Phill,
You had your answer when you cut and pasted. My Uncle works for
Dodge, that is how I got the truck at dealer cost.
There is no real haggle on a Dodge with Cummins engine.. It's a
high demand truck.
Tony
phil...@nmaa.org
>I paid $100 over DEALER cost, not invoice cost. I also paid CASH
>for my truck.
>
>
Burt Peterson
afer...@gnn.com (Aferdaise) wrote:
>
>In article <4ffh9e$i...@homer.alpha.net> Burt Peterson wrote:
>>As far as getting sone kind of deal one your truck...NO MATTER
>what kind
>> of
>>deal you work out on your truck, unless you work for CUMMINS (not
>CC) the
>>diesel will still cost you $3500-$4000. Remember CC buys motors
>from
>> CUMMINS
>>who, by the way, is owned in part by Ford.
>>
>
>Burt,
>
>If you knew what CC charges the dealers for the Cummins engines you
>wouldn't have made that comment.
>
>for my truck.
>
>place that charges 50-100 bucks !
>
>There is a breaking point for the Cummins over the V10, and I have
>past that point already. So the cost per mileage is less then that
>of a V10 ! enough said
>
Well Tony you must get a Hell of a deal from your dealer.
Cummins (read ford) does not cut CC that much of a deal on the motors so again
unless you work for Cummins you did not get that great of a deal on the motor.
But it sounds like you made that up in good price for the truck itself. Not
all of us have relitive that work for CC. I paid about $1000 over invoice and
I was happy to get it as the dealer did not even wan't to sell it to me. (this
was june 94 and CC had not anounced the club cab).
You must also get a hell of a deal on your oil changes. I can get the oil in
the motor changed for $35 but that does not count Two heavdy duty
differentials, transfercase and PTO. Granted I get a carwash too.
I don't know how often you change the oils in your truck but using the
standard 3k oil changes if you plan on running 300k that is 100 oil changes.
Even at $36 a throw that is $3600 in just oil.
Like I said, the cost of maintaing the truck for that long be greater than the
cost of rebuilding ANY motor. If you add up the fuel that you burn, oil,
tires, shocks, ect.... I think that you will find that the cost of rebiulding
a motor is fairly small compared to the money you put into the truck.
I don't really have that strong of an opinion on the issue of Gas v. Diesel.
If I were going to hold on to the truck and put 300K on it I would go diesel.
But I don't intend to put more than 50K on mine.
I think that CC builds good truck and I see that Ford and GM are playing
catchup. That makes me very happy....
Glen Atkins
You should check out Edmunds page on the net.
They have Dealer invoice numbers and holdback
percentages which will give you actual dealer
cost.
Last time I looked they were at:
http://enews.com/magazines/edmunds/
Good Luck!
Glen
Aferdaise
In article <4fq35d$7...@homer.alpha.net> Burt Peterson wrote:
>Well Tony you must get a Hell of a deal from your dealer.
>Cummins (read ford) does not cut CC that much of a deal on the
motors so
> again
>unless you work for Cummins you did not get that great of a deal
on the
> motor.
>But it sounds like you made that up in good price for the truck
itself.
Let get a few things staight here about Cummins and Ford. Ford onlu
owns 10% of voting stock in the company. So your comment here about
Cummins <read Ford> is fales. Cummins ONLY sells Cummins engines to
Ford for trucks over 1 ton... There wont be a Cummins in a FORD
3/4 or 1 Ton truck any time soon. Hope this helps people.
>Not all of us have relitive that work for CC. I paid about $1000
over invoice
> and
>I was happy to get it as the dealer did not even wan't to sell it
to me.
> (this
>was june 94 and CC had not anounced the club cab).
>
>You must also get a hell of a deal on your oil changes. I can get
the oil i
>n
>the motor changed for $35 but that does not count Two heavdy duty
>differentials, transfercase and PTO. Granted I get a carwash too.
>
I said service as in Oil change, not a FULL Service..
>I don't know how often you change the oils in your truck but using
the
>standard 3k oil changes if you plan on running 300k that is 100
oil changes
>.
>Even at $36 a throw that is $3600 in just oil.
>
>Like I said, the cost of maintaing the truck for that long be
greater than
> the
>cost of rebuilding ANY motor. If you add up the fuel that you
burn, oil,
>tires, shocks, ect.... I think that you will find that the cost of
> rebiulding
>a motor is fairly small compared to the money you put into the
truck.
>
Have you looked at the the cost of keeping a GAS truck to 300K
also.
>I don't really have that strong of an opinion on the issue of Gas
v.
> Diesel.
>If I were going to hold on to the truck and put 300K on it I would
go
> diesel.
>But I don't intend to put more than 50K on mine.
>I think that CC builds good truck and I see that Ford and GM are
playing
>catchup. That makes me very happy....
If I was going to keep my truck for 50K, I'd be at my dealer again
ordering another truck, by the time mine new truck came in I would
have over 50K.
You should look into the cost of up keep for both gas or Deisel,
then you well see having a deisel is the way to go for a long
period of miles.
Tony
>
John Airey
somewhere on the www, through edmunds new cars.
Going through a broker, buying a club cab diesel last march I paid
~$2000 over invoice and then had to wait close to 8 months. It was fairly
painless, I didn't have to talk to a dealer. Perhaps with the
increased supply of trucks you can do better now.
Back then people unwilling to wait
were paying MSRP (at least $4000 over invoice for the options I wanted)
plus a 'premium'.
Does anybody want to bet me that tony-talks-a-lot will post how he got
his truck through his uncle and only had to pay 200 over cost again? :-).
Richard E. Aubin
<4f09fk$s...@news-e1a.megaweb.com> <4f56u6$g...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> <4flhi4$k...@news.voicenet.com> <4ftl6i$1g...@saba.info.ucla.edu>:
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Vu Le (v...@ocga.ucla.edu) wrote:
: Boy...I guess you're a punk that likes to race in the street.
: A REAL MAN with his V-10.
: war...@cybrgate.com (Chris Hedemark) wrote:
I'm really beginning to enjoy these don't flame me statements (see
previous message in this thread) because I'm going to act like a jerk.
So what, Chris bought a nice truck, he enjoys it, he likes to drive fast
in it. He blows guys in Chevys away at stoplights. Good for him, it
doesn't make him a punk. I drive a V-10 Ram, people in Chevys in Ford
come up next to me and want to race, fine. Sometimes I do, sometimes I
don't - the V-10 wins hands down. I also drive a Mustang GT - I drive it
fast, faster than I should, it doesn't make me a punk or a real man, it's
just what I like to do.
With respect to the inflammatory statement made in a prior post in this
thread about Japanese cars and the sale of American cars in Japan:
please, don't be so obvious when you are baiting. The issues go far
deeper than quality concerns. That's an argument for another time and
probably another group.
I have owned several American cars over the past couple of years, I have
had no complaints about any of them - no leaks, nothing. I recently
bought a 1994 Dodge Ram 2500. The previous owner had not brought the
truck in for warranty service of any type. I brought the truck in to
service the idle, which was rough and missing on occassion. The dealer,
on his own initiative, has gone through the entire truck to repair recall
and tsb items. No complaints from me.
--
---
Richard E. Aubin - rau...@netcom.com
Dallas, Texas
"I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon
constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe
me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women;
when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it . . ."
- Learned Hand
Vu Le
You people have to buy a diesel just to have the truck last more than
100,000 miles? I own a nissan truck with over 185k with no tuneups
except for oil changes.
I just bought a Dodge Ram truck myself just because it looks awesome.
I know that i'll we be lucky if it last 100k before I have to replace
the motor or something.
I've had this truck for 4 months, and I've already had to bring it in
for:
1. replacement of steering column
2. tranny leaks
3. main seal leaks
4. fuel gauge malfunction
5. master cylinder relacement.
Thank god I have the extended warranty.
I have a question:
Why do American cars/trucks leak fluid so fast?
Why can't they put better quality gaskets? Is it too much to ask?
Do you know why our exports of American autos sucks in Japan?
It's because we don't put in the effort to assure that our autos last.
afer...@gnn.com (Aferdaise) wrote:
>In article <4f56u6$g...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> Glen Atkins wrote:
>>Least my place doesn't smell like a truck stop.
>>
>>V-10 more horsepower, lower payments, I took the
>>extra $3500 and bought a CD, the interest will easily
>>cover the added fuel cost, plus I still have the $3500!
>>
>Glen,
>1. So far my "place" doesn't smell like a truck stop.
>2. I paid dealer price plus $100 bucks for my truck, ALOT less
>then you paid for your truck. <Uncle works for Dodge>
>3. I paid cash for my truck. Read NO PAYMENTS
>4. I had a alpine system with CD changer installed in my truck and
>still spent less then you did.
>Now that we sound like kids, how about getting to the real issue. I
>bought my truck to last me 10 years like my last truck, which
>happened to be a Diesel went 190K miles with no engine work. So far
>in a years time, Ihave alittle under 40K miles on my truck. I plan
>on putting 300k plus on my truck. Your V10 or what ever engine you
>have wont last that long before needing to rebuilt. THAT IS FACT.
>Tony/ Still laughing to the bank
Vu Le
Don't flatter yourself.
Glen Atkins <gat...@lvld.hp.com> wrote:
>afer...@gnn.com (Aferdaise) wrote:
>>
>>In article <4f56u6$g...@hplvec.lvld.hp.com> Glen Atkins wrote:
>>>Least my place doesn't smell like a truck stop.
>>>
>>>V-10 more horsepower, lower payments, I took the
>>>extra $3500 and bought a CD, the interest will easily
>>>cover the added fuel cost, plus I still have the $3500!
>>>
>>
>>Glen,
>>
>>1. So far my "place" doesn't smell like a truck stop.
>>
>You must have enough wind on start-up ;-)
>>2. I paid dealer price plus $100 bucks for my truck, ALOT less
>>then you paid for your truck. <Uncle works for Dodge>
>Good for you!! Wish I had that luck
>>
>>3. I paid cash for my truck. Read NO PAYMENTS
>>
>Again good for you, I'd still have invested the $4k
>>4. I had a alpine system with CD changer installed in my truck and
>>still spent less then you did.
>>
>Again good for you. (but I did get a hell of a deal)
>>Now that we sound like kids, how about getting to the real issue. I
>>bought my truck to last me 10 years like my last truck, which
>>happened to be a Diesel went 190K miles with no engine work. So far
>>in a years time, Ihave alittle under 40K miles on my truck. I plan
>>on putting 300k plus on my truck. Your V10 or what ever engine you
>>have wont last that long before needing to rebuilt. THAT IS FACT.
>>
>I wouldn't be the slightest bit suprised if MY v-10 last as
Burt Peterson
afer...@gnn.com (Aferdaise) wrote:
>Let get a few things staight here about Cummins and Ford. Ford onlu
>owns 10% of voting stock in the company. So your comment here about
>Cummins <read Ford> is fales. Cummins ONLY sells Cummins engines to
>Ford for trucks over 1 ton... There wont be a Cummins in a FORD
>3/4 or 1 Ton truck any time soon. Hope this helps people.
>
I believe (I could be wrong) that Ford announced that they would be putting
Cummins into F250's and up in 97ish. That is why CC was lokking into Cat.
<snip>
>>the motor changed for $35 but that does not count Two heavdy duty
>>differentials, transfercase and PTO. Granted I get a carwash too.
>I said service as in Oil change, not a FULL Service..
That is an oil change.....
>>standard 3k oil changes if you plan on running 300k that is 100
>oil changes
>>Even at $36 a throw that is $3600 in just oil.
>>Like I said, the cost of maintaing the truck for that long be
>greater than
>> the
>>cost of rebuilding ANY motor. If you add up the fuel that you
>burn, oil,
>>tires, shocks, ect.... I think that you will find that the cost of
>> rebiulding
>>a motor is fairly small compared to the money you put into the
>truck.
>Have you looked at the the cost of keeping a GAS truck to 300K
>also.
My Point EXACTLY!
(A little cipher'n...300K/10 mpg = 30k gals of gas. )
( = 30K gals X $1.20 = $36,000 !!!!!!)
( Why rebuild...Just get a new one!!!! )
( Look at diesel..300K/22 Mpg(?)=13,600 gals of diesel. )
{ =13,600 gals x 1.30(?) = $17,680 )
( )
Like I said I don't have that much of an opion on the GAS V. DIESEL debate. If
I were going to put 300K on ANY vehicle I would go diesel...But I don't. In
my younger days I drove a SAAB that had 250k on it. I will never do that
again!
>>But I don't intend to put more than 50K on mine.
>>I think that CC builds good truck and I see that Ford and GM are
>playing
>>catchup. That makes me very happy....
>
>If I was going to keep my truck for 50K, I'd be at my dealer again
>ordering another truck, by the time mine new truck came in I would
>have over 50K.
>
>You should look into the cost of up keep for both gas or Deisel,
>then you well see having a deisel is the way to go for a long
>period of miles.
>
>Tony
I think that we may agree here! My point was not an issue of GAS V. DIESEL.
As every one else has pointed out they both serve a purpose. My point was that
the agrument about the cost to rebuild my v-10 3 times in 300k or the cost to
rebuild your Cummins once in 300k is SMALL compared what it will cost you to
put that many miles on it.
Yes with out a doubt after 300k you will have saved better than half the cost
of a new truck.
-Later
-B
Henry Van Dyke
March '96 addition of Popular Mechanics, that a 6.8l diesel would be
utilized in '98 F250 through Superduty applications. There was no name
of engine manufactures mentioned.
Henry Van Dyke
Richard E. Aubin
: Listen....
: I have own both Japanese and American car/truck and I know
: that American vehicles do not last as long or as reliable as the
: Japanese.
I don't think these generalizations are very accurate. I know people who
have had both good and bad experiences with cars of virtually every
country of origin. The quality of American-built cars has improved over
the last number of years and has been reported to exceed that of many
japanese automobile manufacturers. Frankly, I don't think that's the
point. I had a 1972 Oldsmobile Delta Royale Convertible - it ran
forever. It kind of faded off into the sunset in 1990 - still running.
I know a number of american vehicles that have been extremely reliable.
I also know of a lot of foreign makes that have been equally reliable -
so you have trouble with your Ram - deal with it.
: I have a theory for this: American maufacturers do not
: want us to drive our vehicles for a long time b/c we would not buy
: anymore new cars/trucks. On the other hand, the Japanese believe in
: quality. Why do you think out imports is greater than our exports of
: cars and trucks?
Because the market for vehicles in the U.S. is bigger than anywhere
else? Because of import restrictions in other countries that
unreasonably restrict the free flow of commerce? I don't know the
current statistics, but as of a few years ago the average vehicle was 7+
years old.
: Hey, I'm not complaining about my Dodge Ram. I love it.
: Why don't you guys get under your truck and check for any signs of
: fluid condensation or leaks. I will bet that you will find one.
I have found no leaks under either of my vehicles. I have found
condensation from the a/c, this is normal.
: Check you brake's master cylinder. All of my friends who have the
: Dodge Ram has some type of small leaks there.
: I just had mine replaced, and guess what? It still leaks a little.
Aferdaise
In article <312394...@pica.army.mil> Henry Van Dyke wrote:
>The only thing that has been let by Ford was recently announced in
the
>March '96 addition of Popular Mechanics, that a 6.8l diesel would
be
>utilized in '98 F250 through Superduty applications. There was no
name
>of engine manufactures mentioned.
>
Henry,
Cummins don't make a 6.8l diesel..... I think all Cummins diesels
are inline 6's If I'm not mistaken.
Tony
Aferdaise
In article <4ftkvi$1g...@saba.info.ucla.edu> Vu Le wrote:
>You people have to buy a diesel just to have the truck last more
than
>100,000 miles? I own a nissan truck with over 185k with no
tuneups
>except for oil changes.
>I
Vu,
I had a 85 Nissan truck, that had 150K miles. I went through 5
water pumps, 3 clutchs, and 2 tranys.
Now I said I got my diesel to last me 300K miles not a 100K miles.
READ the post..
Tony
YOU are telling me to deal with it?#@%#$%$
I just bought the darn thing a few months ago!
"Deal with it" you say? Give me a break!
Why can't CC "deal with it?"
On Fri, 16 Feb 1996 03:02:39 GMT, rau...@netcom.com (Richard E. Aubin)
wrote:
Aferdaise
In article <1996022104...@warp10.smartlink.net> Ron Hillman
wrote:
>Hey Tony! you can drive a dodge pickup with a Cummins in it from
Los
>Angeles to Toronto for $170.00 US. unloaded. It might cost a
little bit
>more if it had to pull a load.
Ron,
What was the average cost of fuel on your trip? I know I can go 730
miles a tank. I would have to try a trip like that one of these
days <not going all the way to Toronto> but maybe to Dallas..
Tony
1991 FLHTC "Loletta" , 1996 FXDS-Con "not yet named"
1994 Ducati 900SS "Buell Eater"
1995 Dodge Ram, Club Cab,4x4 "attitude adjuster"
http://members.gnn.com/aferdaise/home.htm
"God gave me a Penis and a Brain, but didn't give me enough blood to run
both at the same time" Robin Willams
Ron Hillman
Aferdaise
In article <1996022202...@warp10.smartlink.net> Ron Hillman
wrote:
>I wasn't involved on this trip. The truck belongs to my mother.
She is
>the one that claims that she drove it from (correction) Sacramento
to
>Toronto for $170.00. How many gallons does a tank hold 35?
>
yes, Dodge Ram trucks with Club Cab long beds hold 35 gallons of
Fuel.