torqueflite 727 problem, need help....please. Long, sorry.
cjboater
from a Jeep grand wagoneer. Currrently in a cj7 with 258 in front and
d300 behind, 4.56 gears. Trans was built with new high qaulity overhaul
kit; clutches, steels, seals, pump set, 5:1 band lever, a properly
installed trans-action shift kit, new 16-1800 stall converter, properly
connected lokar trottle valve cable. No new bands. Less than 3 miles on
it now. I've read everything I can search on every board and have not
found a solution.
The problem I'm having is no third gear shift what so ever. The 1-2
shift occurs vey early speed wise, if the trans bothers with 1st at
all, and just runs up to 3500 or so and still no 3 shift. The 1-2 shift
feels like it occurs very early in the motion of the shifter too, just
as I touch the shifter to move to 2nd it shifts, feels like a good firm
shift though. Also there is a "bog feel" that feels like I'm towing a
LARGE load or big head wind (basically the jeep does not accelerate as
quickly or pull as hard as it did before the rebuild), but when the
throttle valve cable is disconnected or tuned way out this bog is
mostly eliminated.
When this trans died a couple months ago the first thing that went
was 3rd, but it was more like where 3rd should have been there was only
nuetral, now its like there is only 1st and 2nd gear. Then a few miles
later 2nd then 1st became nuetral and R died too. During the rebuild we
found the snap ring that retains the clutches broke and let the
clutches and steels come loose. Ever since this trans was swapped in
from a junkyard wagoneer it has always slipped on the way into 3rd (rev
up for 3/4 second then 3rd caught). Before the rebuild it never had a
throttle valve cable.
Any help anyone could give me would be hugely appreciated, and if
your solution is long and drawn out, I'll cover ya. Email me if you
want me to call, cbc...@hotmail.com .Ive been fighting through this
for a month now and am out of answers and desperate. Help a guy out.
Thanks in advance, Chris
Sorry its so long.
DeserTBoB
> The problem I'm having is no third gear shift what so ever. The 1-2
>shift occurs vey early speed wise, if the trans bothers with 1st at
>all, and just runs up to 3500 or so and still no 3 shift. The 1-2 shift
>feels like it occurs very early in the motion of the shifter too, just
>as I touch the shifter to move to 2nd it shifts, feels like a good firm
>shift though. Also there is a "bog feel" that feels like I'm towing a
>LARGE load or big head wind (basically the jeep does not accelerate as
>quickly or pull as hard as it did before the rebuild), but when the
>throttle valve cable is disconnected or tuned way out this bog is
>mostly eliminated. <snip>
You have a valve spool, possibly the TV valve, installed backward in
the valve body, a missing/misapplied spring, or possibly a
missing/misinstalled check ball. I remember one guy got a check ball
in the wrong place years ago on a 727 and wound up with no direct at
all. After disassembling the valve body, the only way I found it was
comparing with the valve body pictorials in the manual. Once
reassembled properly, pattern was normal.
Other, more mundane things would be:
2nd band adjusted too tight or servo's stuck.
Governor's stuck at low speed.
TV is installed backward (I've seen this more than once!)
Manual linkage horridly maladjusted
TV linkage (cable) holding valve in kickdown position (pretty common
on power plant swaps like this.)
Improperly assembled front clutch (jammed seal)
duty-honor-country
Bob, you worked as a phone guy for Bell Telephone- what the hell do you
know about a torqueflite ? Stop posing as a Chrysler mechanic- you
drive a 1978 Honda, for cripes sakes.
What a windbag ....
Those suggestions you put up above, are from some old transmission
repair manual, no doubt. I wager you bought an old Chrysler repair
book at a yard sale for $1, and are now dispensing your vast stores of
written knowledge on Usenet.
Your answer to another person's "stalling" problem says it all- you
asked him when the last time his filter/oil was changed- like that
would make the car stall...
Steve
> I have a problem with my fresh built 727. Its an 83 lock up model
> from a Jeep grand wagoneer. Currrently in a cj7 with 258 in front and
> d300 behind, 4.56 gears. Trans was built with new high qaulity overhaul
> kit; clutches, steels, seals, pump set, 5:1 band lever, a properly
> installed trans-action shift kit, new 16-1800 stall converter, properly
> connected lokar trottle valve cable. No new bands. Less than 3 miles on
> it now. I've read everything I can search on every board and have not
> found a solution.
Well, you should put in new bands. Why on earth would you NOT replace
bands during a rebuild?!?!?
> The problem I'm having is no third gear shift what so ever. The 1-2
> shift occurs vey early speed wise, if the trans bothers with 1st at
> all, and just runs up to 3500 or so and still no 3 shift. The 1-2 shift
> feels like it occurs very early in the motion of the shifter too, just
> as I touch the shifter to move to 2nd it shifts, feels like a good firm
> shift though. Also there is a "bog feel" that feels like I'm towing a
> LARGE load or big head wind (basically the jeep does not accelerate as
> quickly or pull as hard as it did before the rebuild), but when the
> throttle valve cable is disconnected or tuned way out this bog is
> mostly eliminated.
It sounds to me like a valve body problem. I distrust shift kits in
general, although TransGo does seem to know how to make one for a Mopar.
What makes me double-suspicious here is that there are VERY few shift
kits actually made for a Torqueflite witha lockup convertor, and using
one from a non-lockup convertor will screw the works but good. Other
possibilities include a mal-adjusted front band which is staying applied
in 3rd gear and attempting to lock the transmission, or a front clutch
seal that's blown out of its ring so that the front (direct or 3rd gear)
clutch never applies.
> When this trans died a couple months ago the first thing that went
> was 3rd, but it was more like where 3rd should have been there was only
> nuetral, now its like there is only 1st and 2nd gear. Then a few miles
> later 2nd then 1st became nuetral and R died too. During the rebuild we
> found the snap ring that retains the clutches broke and let the
> clutches and steels come loose. Ever since this trans was swapped in
> from a junkyard wagoneer it has always slipped on the way into 3rd (rev
> up for 3/4 second then 3rd caught). Before the rebuild it never had a
> throttle valve cable.
And that's what killed it. Running a Torqueflite without a throttle
cable is a guaranteed way to roast it. The cable not only sets shift
POINTS, it also modulates clutch and band apply PRESSURE. With the cable
disconnected, apply pressure will always be a minimum so the clutches
and bands will slip at any throttle application above a fast idle.
> Any help anyone could give me would be hugely appreciated, and if
> your solution is long and drawn out, I'll cover ya. Email me if you
> want me to call, cbc...@hotmail.com .Ive been fighting through this
> for a month now and am out of answers and desperate. Help a guy out.
IMO, you should drop the transmission and go through it all again, this
time replacing the bands as should have been done the first time.
But if you want to try to troubleshoot in-car:
1) Get a valve body from a junked vehicle with a lockup 727. Toss away
the one with the "shift kit" and try an un-adulterated one.
2) while the valve body is out, follow the service manual procedure for
testing the clutch and band servos with low-pressure compressed air.
This will tell you if the direct (front) clutch seal is indeed blown or
rolled out of its groove- this often happens on assembly and you gotta
be REAL careful
3) Adjust the bands (particularly the front band) per service manual
instructions
John Kunkel
"cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159231042.8...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
John Kunkel
"cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159231042.8...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
John Kunkel
"cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159231042.8...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> from a Jeep grand wagoneer. Currrently in a cj7 with 258 in front and
> d300 behind, 4.56 gears. Trans was built with new high qaulity overhaul
> kit; clutches, steels, seals, pump set, 5:1 band lever, a properly
> installed trans-action shift kit, new 16-1800 stall converter, properly
> connected lokar trottle valve cable. No new bands. Less than 3 miles on
> it now. I've read everything I can search on every board and have not
> found a solution.
> The problem I'm having is no third gear shift what so ever. The 1-2
> shift occurs vey early speed wise, if the trans bothers with 1st at
> all, and just runs up to 3500 or so and still no 3 shift. The 1-2 shift
> feels like it occurs very early in the motion of the shifter too, just
> as I touch the shifter to move to 2nd it shifts, feels like a good firm
> shift though.
The last sentence gives the impression that the shift linkage might be part
of the problem. I would crawl under the vehicle, disconnect the shift
linkage from the transmission lever and have an assistant run the shifter
through each gear position while you check the relative position of the
transmission lever to the selected gear. If misadjusted/poorly designed
shift linkage places the transmission lever between two gear detents, it
will cause any number of problems. Also check that the transmission shift
lever detents are firm and that there is no slop in the lever movement.
Being in between gears could also account for the "bogging" feeling.
If the linkage adjustment checks out OK, you need to do some real
troubleshooting by checking the pressures at the various test ports. As
previously stated, leaving out the large (11/32") check ball in the valve
body will prevent the 2-3 upshift. If the valve body needs to be removed it
would be wise to perform an air test of the installed components as is
outlined in the FSM; this should be performed on any newly assembled unit
but is seldom done.
.
cjboater
check ball that the shift kit said leave out that the mopar manual said
leave (the 11/32 one), this was applied and 3rd is now present, though
at a high shift point.
the shift kit is a fairbanks transaction kit which it lists works on
the lock up model as well. New transtar lock up converter. The reason
for no new bands was the man helping me has done transmissions only for
dodge dealer for years and he thought thier condition deemed them fine
to keep (maybe because of minimal pressure from no tv cable?). The
shifter linkage is connected and adjusted properly. I now know that the
tv cable is mandatory, just didnt back then, and blamed it on the
junkyard unit.
The bog feel I mentioned is now gone with the check ball in place.
The 1-2 shift is better timed now at about 1500, but still want it a
bit higher. Goes to first everytime now from stop. 3rd comes at about
3200 which is way too high for me. Then the 3-2 shift comes too early,
maybe 10 mph below vehichle speed from the 2-3 shift.
I'm going to try adjusting the tv cable a bit more tonight and see if
the shift points get better.
Thanks for all the solutions thus far and please keep them coming.
I'm always open to more answers.
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>The last sentence gives the impression that the shift linkage might be part
>of the problem. <snip>
It seems that Steve's, Kunkel's and my diagnoses are convergent on
several points, but two things seem to stick out here...the biggest
being an improper "shift kit." A call to a friend who owns a very
reputable auto trans shop and does a lot of restoration work on older
units agrees with Steve...if you put ANY pre-lockup "shift kit" in a
lockup valve body, you're screwed. Take the shift kit out and go back
to stock and see what happens.
This same set of symptoms will also occur if the kickdown (2nd) band
is adjusted way too tight, or if the servo is sticking. If this is
the case, prepare to tear it all down again, because that old, used
band you reused (for reasons I cannot fathom) is now probably toast. A
"bogged" 1-2 will occur when the front clutch piston is jammed due to
a jammed seal, too, and will also cause failure to go to direct.
Who did this rebuild??
DeserTBoB
> Made some headway today. As of tonight 3rd has come on. there was a
>check ball that the shift kit said leave out that the mopar manual said
>leave (the 11/32 one), this was applied and 3rd is now present, though
>at a high shift point. <snip>
:::taking a bow for correct diagnosis:::
> the shift kit is a fairbanks transaction kit which it lists works on
>the lock up model as well. New transtar lock up converter. The reason
>for no new bands was the man helping me has done transmissions only for
>dodge dealer for years and he thought thier condition deemed them fine
>to keep (maybe because of minimal pressure from no tv cable?). <snip>
That would give the opposite condition...minimal pressure from a
maladjusted/backward installed TV would yield low control pressure,
which would burn up the kickdown band in no time.
> The
>shifter linkage is connected and adjusted properly. I now know that the
>tv cable is mandatory, just didnt back then, and blamed it on the
>junkyard unit.
> The bog feel I mentioned is now gone with the check ball in place.
>The 1-2 shift is better timed now at about 1500, but still want it a
>bit higher. Goes to first everytime now from stop. 3rd comes at about
>3200 which is way too high for me. Then the 3-2 shift comes too early,
>maybe 10 mph below vehichle speed from the 2-3 shift.
> I'm going to try adjusting the tv cable a bit more tonight and see if
>the shift points get better.
> Thanks for all the solutions thus far and please keep them coming.
>I'm always open to more answers. <snip>
Dump the shift kit. Never heard of a "Fairbanks" shift kit for any
Torqueflite. Go back stock, and pay SPECIAL attention to placement of
those check balls.
NudoSmasher
<dutyhono...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Bob, you worked as a phone guy for Bell Telephone- what the hell do you
>know about a torqueflite ? <snip>
I've rebuild two years ago. How many have you done?
Start of paranoid delusional "projection" rant:
>What a windbag ....
>
>Those suggestions you put up above, are from some old transmission
>repair manual, no doubt. I wager you bought an old Chrysler repair
>book at a yard sale for $1, and are now dispensing your vast stores of
>written knowledge on Usenet.
End of paranoid delusional "projection" rant.
What you've just admitted is how you do things, Noodles. Projection
like this is how many schizophrenics/psychotics/paranoid delusionals
try to impress people that they are sane...and you do it all the time.
By the way...I get a nice, fat pension and savings plan dividend check
every month. You get what....SSI?
John Kunkel
"DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
news:avjjh257ccs7magh4...@4ax.com...
Fairbanks is an old and well-respected name in performance transmissions and
parts, they are now in league with Superior and their Transaction® shift
kits are basically the same as the TransGo and B&M Transpak®.
A properly installed shift kit is an enhancement to the transmission so I
would disagree on removing it.
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>Fairbanks is an old and well-respected name in performance transmissions and
>parts, they are now in league with Superior and their Transaction® shift
>kits are basically the same as the TransGo and B&M Transpak®.
>A properly installed shift kit is an enhancement to the transmission so I
>would disagree on removing it. <snip>
Superior and especially B&M, as well as TransGo I know. Fairbanks
must not be marketed well in this area, as I've never come across them
out here. B&M, which got its start out here with performance kits for
cast iron HydraMatics in the '50s, ran the whole show until ATP went
nationwide with their excellent TransGo® kits.
The problem here is that he made a change to the valving, got
everything together and all hell broke loose. To do any
troubleshooting, I'd think it'd be wise to go back to the stock valve
body configuration, then look at control pressure and then what the
pattern's doing. Already, according to the OP, one of the check balls
was deleted, which I diagnosed right off. The shift kit may, or may
*not* be causitive here, so removing it and going to stock will allow
diagnosis of the front clutch action, as well as the kickdown band.
A "late" shift to direct would seem to eliminate the kickdown band
being maladjusted extremely tight, but it doesn't clear the servo
being either stuck mechnically or hydrualically. It's possible, with
a misapplied check ball, to have the band servo apply and then have no
exhaust passage, thus giving the situation that Steve alludes to of
the box trying to lock itself up. However, the OP says he now gets
direct, but very late, so I'm thinking that the servo is mechanically
OK, but MAY be hydraulically held operated. Thus, going back to the
original valve body configuration may (or may not) see if that problem
is cleared, as well.
If the kickdown band servo isn't helped by going back to original, I'd
take a very harsh look at a screwed up/jammed front clutch seal ring.
This would also cause low control pressure, which would also cause a
late and soft 2-3. It's also possible, with very low control
pressure, that the 3500 RPM he's reporting before getting direct could
be a lot of slippage, as well.
DeserTBoB
> I'm going to try adjusting the tv cable a bit more tonight and see if
>the shift points get better. <snip>
There's only one optimal position for the TV cable to be in...lever
fully actuated at full throttle. Since you've done a transplant, it's
possible that the throttle linkage geometry is screwed up now, which
will give you a hosed up pattern and an improper coast-down 2-1. Like
the old HydraMatics, the Torqueflite requires the TV linkage to track
properly in order to program the TV to give the right shift points and
firmness at the right power settings. If you're not getting enough
cable draw action from idle to full throttle, you will get high shift
points and high coast down downshifts, assuming you set the linkage
properly for being fully actuated at full throttle. If you maladjust
for lower points, you'll have no kickdown and sloppy shifts under
power.
duty-honor-country
John,
This "desertbob" character is a poser who is posting from auto repair
manuals- he doesn't have any hands on experience fixing cars. This is
the same guy that disassembled an entire 318 motor, when all it needed
was a new thersmostat. So of course, he knows nothing about Fairbanks.
You are correct in that they make top-notch converters and trans
parts.
You are correct- a shift kit for an auto trans will "firm up" the
shifts, which causes a quick, abrupt shift- and LESS SLIPPAGE- shift
kits will extend band and clutch pack life.
In 1985 I had a TH350 GM auto trans rebuilt, and put a B&M transpak
shift kit in it, but retained the modulator for street part-throttle
driving. (the most drastic kit mode specified to remove the modulator
for very high upshift points for racing) That transmission is still in
my Firebird to this date, has never caused any problems, and has been
drag raced extensively at the track, and driven very hard on the
street. Had it not been for the kit, the trans would be toast by now.
Synthetic trans fluid helped too, of course.
DeserTBoB
<prs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>John,
>
>This "desertbob" character <snip>
...just busted you with yet another sock puppet account...
prs...@yahoo.com that you opened today.
Add prs...@yahoo.com to your kill filers.
>You are correct- a shift kit for an auto trans will "firm up" the
>shifts, which causes a quick, abrupt shift- and LESS SLIPPAGE- shift
>kits will extend band and clutch pack life. <snip>
"Trans kits" are unnecessary in 90% of applications...idiot.
>
>In 1985 I had a TH350 GM auto trans rebuilt, and put a B&M transpak
>shift kit in it, but retained the modulator for street part-throttle
>driving. (the most drastic kit mode specified to remove the modulator
>for very high upshift points for racing) That transmission is still in
>my Firebird to this date, has never caused any problems, and has been
>drag raced extensively at the track, and driven very hard on the
>street. Had it not been for the kit, the trans would be toast by now. <snip>
POSER ALERT: This moron, Charlie Nudo of Drums, PA, claims to have a
Pontiac Firebird 455 HO with a "tunnel ram" manifold. It probably
doesn't run. Also, the Chevrolet THM350 does NOT fit the Pontiac
block at all. B-O-P cars had their own THM375 made by the former
Detroit Transmission Divison, NOT Chevrolet Division, with the B-O-P
bell housing pattern.
Charlie Nudo...shown to be a liar again.
Charlie Deludo
duty-honor-country aka Charlie Nudo wrote:
> John Kunkel wrote:
> > "DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:avjjh257ccs7magh4...@4ax.com...
> > > On 26 Sep 2006 17:48:59 -0700, "cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dump the shift kit. Never heard of a "Fairbanks" shift kit for any
> > > Torqueflite. Go back stock, and pay SPECIAL attention to placement of
> > > those check balls.
> >
> > Fairbanks is an old and well-respected name in performance transmissions and
> > parts, they are now in league with Superior and their Transaction® shift
> > kits are basically the same as the TransGo and B&M Transpak®.
> > A properly installed shift kit is an enhancement to the transmission so I
> > would disagree on removing it.
>
>
> John,
>
> This "desertbob" character is a poser who is posting from auto repair
> manuals- he doesn't have any hands on experience fixing cars.
Charlie Nudo, why yet another new Google account?
> You are correct- a shift kit for an auto trans will "firm up" the
> shifts, which causes a quick, abrupt shift- and LESS SLIPPAGE- shift
> kits will extend band and clutch pack life.
>
> In 1985 I had a TH350 GM auto trans rebuilt, and put a B&M transpak
> shift kit in it, but retained the modulator for street part-throttle
> driving. (the most drastic kit mode specified to remove the modulator
> for very high upshift points for racing) That transmission is still in
> my Firebird to this date, has never caused any problems, and has been
> drag raced extensively at the track, and driven very hard on the
> street. Had it not been for the kit, the trans would be toast by now.
Total lie. He had an old beat to shit pontiac years ago. Charlie is the
biggest blowhard on Usenet always talking about his adventures when the
truth is he just a overweight dumpster diver who is on SSI.
You take many pictures for your failed Ebay auctions, why not show them
a recent picture of this great car?
John Kunkel
> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:52:24 -0700, "John Kunkel" <nob...@nowhere.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Fairbanks is an old and well-respected name in performance transmissions
>>and
>>parts, they are now in league with Superior and their Transaction® shift
>>kits are basically the same as the TransGo and B&M Transpak®.
>>A properly installed shift kit is an enhancement to the transmission so I
>>would disagree on removing it. <snip>
>
> Superior and especially B&M, as well as TransGo I know. Fairbanks
> must not be marketed well in this area, as I've never come across them
> out here. B&M, which got its start out here with performance kits for
> cast iron HydraMatics in the '50s, ran the whole show until ATP went
> nationwide with their excellent TransGo® kits.
Fairbanks kits are the same as Superior, they're in bed together.
B&M didn't actually make "kits" for the iron Hydro, they built a unit manual
controlled Hydro called the Hydro-Stik with the famous logo of a robot
holding a shift lever.
TransGo is independent of ATP and is marketed through many other vendors.
> The problem here is that he made a change to the valving, got
> everything together and all hell broke loose.
The "change in valving" had nothing to do with it.
> Already, according to the OP, one of the check balls
> was deleted, which I diagnosed right off. The shift kit may, or may
> *not* be causitive here, so removing it and going to stock will allow
> diagnosis of the front clutch action, as well as the kickdown band.
The missing #3 ball was the cause for no 2-3 upshift (you weren't alone in
suggesting that) and the backflow through the missing check ball partially
applied the rear band which accounts for the "bogging" feeling.
The remainder of the OP's current late shift timing issues are related to
throttle pressure adjustment and not the shift kit. The late 2-3 upshift and
the early forced kickdown are solely the result of too much throttle
pressure for the throttle opening; a simple cable/linkage adjustment should
solve that problem.
John Kunkel
> On 28 Sep 2006 05:22:23 -0700, "duty-honor-country"
> <prs...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>John,
>>
>>This "desertbob" character <snip>
>
> ...just busted you with yet another sock puppet account...
> prs...@yahoo.com that you opened today.
>
> Add prs...@yahoo.com to your kill filers.
>
>>You are correct- a shift kit for an auto trans will "firm up" the
>>shifts, which causes a quick, abrupt shift- and LESS SLIPPAGE- shift
>>kits will extend band and clutch pack life. <snip>
>
> "Trans kits" are unnecessary in 90% of applications...idiot.
It isn't about "necessary", 99% of vehicle modifications aren't necessary
but if they enhance performance/longevity and driving pleasure there is no
reason not to make the mods.
It's a matter of personal choice, and advising people to not use them or to
remove existing mods is a singular view.
John Kunkel
"duty-honor-country" <prs...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159446143.7...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
John Kunkel wrote:
> "DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:avjjh257ccs7magh4...@4ax.com...
> > On 26 Sep 2006 17:48:59 -0700, "cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dump the shift kit. Never heard of a "Fairbanks" shift kit for any
> > Torqueflite. Go back stock, and pay SPECIAL attention to placement of
> > those check balls.
>
> Fairbanks is an old and well-respected name in performance transmissions
> and
> parts, they are now in league with Superior and their Transaction® shift
> kits are basically the same as the TransGo and B&M Transpak®.
> A properly installed shift kit is an enhancement to the transmission so I
> would disagree on removing it.
John,
This "desertbob" character is a poser who is posting from auto repair
manuals- he doesn't have any hands on experience fixing cars.
Duly noted, but even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.
John Kunkel
> On 26 Sep 2006 17:48:59 -0700, "cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm going to try adjusting the tv cable a bit more tonight and see if
>>the shift points get better. <snip>
>
> There's only one optimal position for the TV cable to be in...lever
> fully actuated at full throttle.
Absolutely wrong!!!
Adjusting the cable/linkage so that the transmission lever is full back at
WOT most often results in late part throttle upshifts or no WOT upshifts.
When properly adjusted the lever will be NEAR full back but there will be
some travel left.
The "optimal" setting is one that suits the individual driver. As long as
the transmission will kickdown at WOT at a road speed of 40 mph or so, the
adjustment is sufficient to prevent any low pressure associated damage.
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>Fairbanks kits are the same as Superior, they're in bed together. <snip>
OK, Superior I've seen out here. Could they be marketing different
names regionally?
>
>B&M didn't actually make "kits" for the iron Hydro, they built a unit manual
>controlled Hydro called the Hydro-Stik with the famous logo of a robot
>holding a shift lever. <snip>
That's the one, seen oft times in T-buckets with a '53-'55 Cadillac
transplanted into it.
>The missing #3 ball was the cause for no 2-3 upshift (you weren't alone in
>suggesting that) and the backflow through the missing check ball partially
>applied the rear band which accounts for the "bogging" feeling.
>The remainder of the OP's current late shift timing issues are related to
>throttle pressure adjustment and not the shift kit. The late 2-3 upshift and
>the early forced kickdown are solely the result of too much throttle
>pressure for the throttle opening; a simple cable/linkage adjustment should
>solve that problem. <snip>
So, it would seem, with a TV adjustment, he's home free.
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>This "desertbob" character is a poser who is posting from auto repair
>manuals- he doesn't have any hands on experience fixing cars.
>
>Duly noted, but even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. <snip>
So he says. Charlie Nudo, aka "duty-honor-country," is the troll who
trailed me in here. And, FYI, I've rebuild two 727s myself. How many
has Nudo even touched? Zero.
The rear clutch check ball thing came to mind, because I had the same
problem with a Road Runner I got on the cheap with a "blown" trans.
What happened was that the check ball was just plain missing, and the
rear band was fried. Everything else, including all hard parts, were
in great shape, so it was an easy job. I used an ATP master kit on
that one, and was later told I'd screwed up by using their stuff,
although I sold the car and never got a comeback on the trans. One
shop owner told me that ATP seals weren't up to par, but yet others
say their stuff's perfectly reliable. I used some seal repair items
on a Ford C6 that held up for over 100K miles, so....
Any opinions on that?
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>
>"DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:h44mh21dqo2n67rko...@4ax.com...
>> On 26 Sep 2006 17:48:59 -0700, "cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to try adjusting the tv cable a bit more tonight and see if
>>>the shift points get better. <snip>
>>
>> There's only one optimal position for the TV cable to be in...lever
>> fully actuated at full throttle.
>
>Absolutely wrong!!! <snip>
So the FSM is wrong, then.
John Kunkel
Please reference ANY Mopar shop manual that specifies the lever must be full
back at WOT, include year, page, paragraph.
What you will actually find is that EVERY FSM specifies the adjustment be
made with the carb/throttle body at warm curb idle and with the transmission
lever full FORWARD. When correctly adjusted at idle the position of the
transmission lever at WOT will automatically be correct due to the design of
the factory linkage/cable system.
DeserTBoB
wrote:
>
>"DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:8c9oh2hii6kva236r...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:56:12 -0700, "John Kunkel" <nob...@nowhere.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"DeserTBoB" <des...@rglobal.net> wrote in message
>>>news:h44mh21dqo2n67rko...@4ax.com...
>>>> On 26 Sep 2006 17:48:59 -0700, "cjboater" <cbc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to try adjusting the tv cable a bit more tonight and see if
>>>>>the shift points get better. <snip>
>>>>
>>>> There's only one optimal position for the TV cable to be in...lever
>>>> fully actuated at full throttle.
>>>
>>>Absolutely wrong!!! <snip>
>>
>> So the FSM is wrong, then.
>
>Please reference ANY Mopar shop manual that specifies the lever must be full
>back at WOT, include year, page, paragraph.
>
>What you will actually find is that EVERY FSM specifies the adjustment be
>made with the carb/throttle body at warm curb idle and with the transmission
>lever full FORWARD. When correctly adjusted at idle the position of the
>transmission lever at WOT will automatically be correct due to the design of
>the factory linkage/cable system. <snip>
That's exactly what my FSM says for the overtravel rod system for '86,
and a recheck showed that this will also put the TV fully in at WOT,
at least on my application. I can shinny underneath and recheck it,
but that's how it worked out last time I set it.
sqdancerLynn
(the one on the trans) I have seen them in different lengths depending on
application. Another thought Has it been converted to carb? You need the
correct mopar adapter lever for the carb. Front band & rear bands seldom
wear out on 727 So that wouldn't be a problem unless overtightened. The
quickest way to distroy a TF is to leave the throdle pressure linnkage
disconnected I had the MP deep pan on mine with street shift kit
duty-honor-country
>
> This "desertbob" character is a poser who is posting from auto repair
> manuals- he doesn't have any hands on experience fixing cars.
>
> Duly noted, but even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.
John,
Check this out- DeserTroll is now trying to say a TH350 only came on a
Chevy- this goes far to show his total LACK of automotive knowledge- as
it was a common transmission on Buick, Olds, Pontiac as well, from the
1960's all the way into the 1980's
Here's his latest post:
And here's the obvious info that totally DISPROVES what he's saying. I
must have seen 100's of TH350's in Buick-Olds-Pontiac cars. I parted
out many myself, and my Firebird still has the original TH350 it came
with in 1970.
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/th350.htm
Engine Compatibility and Adaptability
GM
The front face TH350 is natively compatible with either the Chevrolet
90 degree "Small Block" & "Big Block" patterned engines,
including the V6, V8, I6 & Iron Duke I4. Another version, the Buick /
Oldsmobile / Pontiac (BOP) TH350 will be compatible with the Buick 90
degree V6 & V8 engines, and the Olds & Pontiac 90 degree V8. This
"BOP" version features a "valley" at the twelve o'clock
position of the block flange where the peak would be on the Chevy
(pictured) version.
THIS IS WHY YOU CAN'T BELIEVE ANYTHING DESERTBOB TELLS YOU- he's a
poser.
Charlie Deludo
duty-honor-country wrote:
> DeserTBoB wrote:
> > POSER ALERT: , claims to have a Pontiac Firebird 455 HO with a "tunnel ram" manifold. It probably
> > doesn't run.
>
> You already saw pictures of the engine, with your picture on the
> manifold- here it is again, you ricer.
>
> http://i9.tinypic.com/3022e5i.jpg
>
>
> Also, the Chevrolet THM350 does NOT fit the Pontiac
> > block at all. B-O-P cars had their own THM375 made by the former
> > Detroit Transmission Divison, NOT Chevrolet Division, with the B-O-P
> > bell housing pattern.
>
> TH350
>
> The TH375 was a TH350 with a LONG TAILSHAFT, used in full sized luxury
> cars- you DUMB ASS.
>
> Explain this:
>
> http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/convtrans/gm/gmth350id.html
>
You accused Bob being obsessive and yet you take the time to Photoshop
his picture, print it out and put in on someones engine. You are the
psycho and this proves it.
Charlie Deludo
duty-honor-country wrote:
> DeserTBoB wrote:
> > POSER ALERT: , claims to have a Pontiac Firebird 455 HO with a "tunnel ram" manifold. It probably
> > doesn't run.
>
> You already saw pictures of the engine, with your picture on the
> manifold- here it is again, you ricer.
>
> http://i9.tinypic.com/3022e5i.jpg
Why no pics of the whole car? Too ashamed? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
duty-honor-country
previous erased posts by "bicycle" aka "deludo"- which he removed
because he writes checks his body can't cash- he's NOTHING
duty-honor-country
> because he writes checks his body can't cash- he's NOTHING
>
> http://i9.tinypic.com/2dwezqb.jpg
>
> http://i9.tinypic.com/4getp1s.jpg
att: all- to read above pics, open it, put your mouse arrow on the
picture, a box will appear at lower right, click on that box to enlarge
and read what lowlife welfare trash "deludo" aka "bicycle" wrote
email me at bb...@epix.net for more info on the coward
don't worry- he's NOTHING
duty-honor-country
http://i10.tinypic.com/4e0vcb5.jpg
like bicycle aka deludo will ever own something this nice...
never ! he prefers rice !
duty-honor-country
> > his picture, print it out and put in on someones engine. You are the
> > psycho and this proves it.
>
>
and you took the time to put up these posts, about sneaking into my
gated community and sneaking around my house- then you deleted them
after you talked to the cops and they said they'd arrest you
>
> http://i9.tinypic.com/2dwezqb.jpg
>
> http://i9.tinypic.com/4getp1s.jpg
what about that ?? now, who's the psycho ??
bicycle aka deludo aka white trash aka (dozens of other usernames)
anyone interested in finding out more about bicycle the cowardly net
stalker, email me at bb...@epix.net
I'll gladly forward to anyone ALL the incriminating files I have on
"bicycle"
don't worry, he's NOTHING
DeserTBoB
<dutyhono...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Check this out- DeserTroll is now trying to say a TH350 only came on a
>Chevy- this goes far to show his total LACK of automotive knowledge- as
>it was a common transmission on Buick, Olds, Pontiac as well, from the
>1960's all the way into the 1980's
>
>Here's his latest post:
>
Charlie Nudo doesn't know a THM375 from a THM375B from a THM350.
Everyone at GM wound up with a permutation of the cheesy THM350 later
on, but not so in the beginning. So much for his claims of being an
"automotive expert" and a 12 year "shop owner!" If he even had a
shop, it was closed due to poor repairs and slovenly work, no doubt.
See:
For those not able to use that link, use:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.collecting.8-track-tapes/msg/44231df3215eb5d8?dmode=source
Go ahead, Noodles...worm your way out of this one!
DeserTBoB
<Rt309ra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> http://i9.tinypic.com/3022e5i.jpg
>
>Why no pics of the whole car? Too ashamed? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! <snip>
The rust lobsters on that tin can must be huge. Nudo's pic here shows
ONE thing...sloppy work and a really fucked up induction system.
duty-honor-country
Pontiac, Buick, and Olds used the TH350 on all their base-line GM
A-bodies, that means Cutlass-Skylark-F85-Tempest-LeMans-from 1968 all
the way to 1980
also in all base-line Camaros and Firebirds 1968 to 1981
where the HELL have you been ?
The TH350 in my car is ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT
this scan directly from Chiltons 1964-71 repair manual
http://i9.tinypic.com/2z7eefa.jpg
you are one stupid, dumb-ass liberal idiot
obviously you never owned or worked on a GM V-8 powered car at ALL, it
was their most common automatic of the 1970's
you DICK !
duty-honor-country
we're still waiting to see DeserTBob's 1978 Honda and 1986 Chrysler...
they must be really "nice", smelling that is...
and look like a family a doberman dogs were living in them both...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!
DeserTBoB
<dutyhono...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>like bicycle aka deludo will ever own something this nice... <snip>
A '70 455? Came from the factory with a THM400. Plus, looking at
this pic (which you probably stole elsewhere on the net, which can be
checked by looking at the JPEG coding) I do not believe that this is
the same car.
duty-honor-country
my car is not an original 455 car, it came with a Pontiac 350 2-barrel,
with TH350 automatic
look it up-
I installed the 455, RA V heads, tunnel ram, headers
had the trans rebuilt w/kit
and changed the rear axle to a stronger GM 10.5" posi
what the fuck is your problem ?? you think everyone keeps a car "bone
stock" like you do ? I changed more engines to my own config, than
you'll ever count...
DeserTBoB
<dutyhono...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>anyone interested in finding out more about bicycle the cowardly net
>stalker, email me at bb...@epix.net
>
>I'll gladly forward to anyone ALL the incriminating files I have on
>"bicycle" <snip>
This psychopath is having his "end-of-the-month" meltdown, for sure.
He's shut up once his SSI check shows up. Happens every month!
If you want to see incriminating evidence, just dig up his deleted
posts off of any good Usenet server with good retention. There's
enough there to have him thrown into jail for "terrorist threats."
DeserTBoB
<dutyhono...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>just like the Chrysler manual was wrong, right Boob ?
>
>Pontiac, Buick, and Olds used the TH350 on all their base-line GM
>A-bodies, that means Cutlass-Skylark-F85-Tempest-LeMans-from 1968 all
>the way to 1980 <snip>
WRONG! That was a THM375, produced by Detroit Transmission Divison,
later the HydraMatic Division of GM.
>also in all base-line Camaros and Firebirds 1968 to 1981 <snip>
WRONG AGAIN! '68 Camaros came with PowerSlide as standard and didn't
get the THM350 (built by Chevrolet in their own plant) until 1969...AS
AN OPTION.
>where the HELL have you been ? <snip>
Obviously not having my head up my ass, as you have been for years.
>
>The TH350 in my car is ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT <snip>
Bullshit.
>this scan directly from Chiltons 1964-71 repair manual <snip>
CHILTON? BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Even a Haynes manual's better
than those old Chilton pieces of crap! Only one reason to have ANY
Chilton manual, especially from back then...as kindling for your
fireplace. I had that exact shop manual back when it was new. I
found more errors in it than ANY other publication at the time, and
never bought another Chilton manual for anything. Now, if you'd care
to look at a better manual, like the FSM or a Motor manual, you'd see
that the Buick and Olds used the THM375. THE TWO ARE NOT THE SAME
BOX...IDIOT! Just TRY to swap out a THM375 with a THM350, or try to
use a 350 kit in a 375...see what happens.
>http://i9.tinypic.com/2z7eefa.jpg
>
>you are one stupid, dumb-ass liberal idiot <snip>
You'll see...you've been made the village idiot once again.
DeserTBoB
<dutyhono...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>my car is not an original 455 car, it came with a Pontiac 350 2-barrel,
>with TH350 automatic <snip>
Correction...it came with the Pontaic 350 with a THM375. Look it
up...in a DECENT manual. The "350 with a B-O-P bolt pattern" didn't
show up until 1972, which was called the THM375B, somewhat a fraud,
really. The 375B only differed from the Chevy version on bigger
displacement engines because is had more disks and plates in the
clutch pack...because the stock THM350 COULD NOT HANDLE THAT MUCH
TORQUE!
What a nimrod...and Putney sides with this moron?
>had the trans rebuilt w/kit <snip>
Why, too stupid or inept to do your own transmission work?
>and changed the rear axle to a stronger GM 10.5" posi
>
>what the fuck is your problem ?? you think everyone keeps a car "bone
>stock" like you do ? I changed more engines to my own config, than
>you'll ever count... <snip>
Putting a 455 in front of a THM375 is stupid...period. The 400 and
455 in the '70 Firebirds had a THM400. Go look at the FSM.
Answer this question: Does your Firebird have a kickdown switch, or
not?
Charlie Deludo
duty-honor-country wrote:
> Charlie Deludo wrote:
> > duty-honor-country wrote:
> > > DeserTBoB wrote:
> > > > POSER ALERT: , claims to have a Pontiac Firebird 455 HO with a "tunnel ram" manifold. It probably
> > > > doesn't run.
> > >
> > > You already saw pictures of the engine, with your picture on the
> > > manifold- here it is again, you ricer.
> > >
> > > http://i9.tinypic.com/3022e5i.jpg
> >
> > Why no pics of the whole car? Too ashamed? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>
>
>
> http://i10.tinypic.com/4e0vcb5.jpg
Look at the picture, it's a scan of an old photgraph. It's the same old
scan he's been posting for years. He cannot produce a current picture
of the car he constantly brags about because he's either beat the shit
out of it or sold it a long time ago.