School bus seat belts (was: Floor outlets and the building inspector)
Bennet K. Langlotz
>Not to start an off-topic thread here...but WHAT??? This is one I've got
>to hear........
My understanding is that the costs to install them would not be
justified, compared to other measures to improve traffic safety. In
fact, there are very very few fatalities on school buses (the typical
schoolchild fatality is when he gets off the bus - notice all the
measures to prevent the kids from walking right in front of the
bumper, etc.).
The fatality rate per passenger mile for a school bus is astoundingly
low, and seatbelts wouldn't save many of those few fatalities, which
often involve passenger compartment crushing. Remember how BIG a bus
is, and how they rarely get up to much highway speed for most of their
passenger miles. those padded high back seats prevent minor injuries,
and kids have a pretty good bounce, anyway.
The next issue is getting the kids to buckle up. Of course, if I were
a driver, I'd insist on keeping the little buggers tied down. (Leg
irons?)
Not that the authorities always obey the rule (airbags are an
example), but generally a safety regulation is not required unless the
cost per life saved is less than a few million dollars. School bus
seat belts cost much more than that.
--
Bennet K. Langlotz
ne...@langlotz.com
L. Patterson
don't have any. If you do, I really hope they are not the next ones to die.
Bennet K. Langlotz <ne...@langlotz.com> wrote in message >
L. Patterson
safety that it provides. It would add a minimal cost to every bus, and most
places only buy a few buses per year. The cost to protect your child, on the
only bus they ride in, is next to nothing. If the one child that is saved is
yours, would it be worth it?
All you have to do is talk to the police officers, firefighters, and ems
workers who have run serious accidents involving a bus, and you might think
different. Or, maybe you can get lucky, and actually witness one.
Larry
Marc <Gum...@ticnet.com> wrote in message > If it took a trillion dollars,
and only saved one child's life, would
> it be worth it?
>
> Marc
L. Patterson
mass transit system for kids. The cost per bus is minimal. The cost per
school district would be minimal. It can be phased in over time. Order a new
bus, the cost goes up a thousand. A bus doesn't have to be in an accident
for kids to get hurt. Simply running (or being run) off the road is enough
for kids to suffer spinal injuries when they hit the roof. The medical costs
of treating injuries, especially serious ones, would pay for a hell of a lot
of belts, maybe all of them.
Larry
Bennet K. Langlotz <ne...@langlotz.com> wrote in message
news:37c7f2c2....@news.teleport.com...
> "L. Patterson" <lpa...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> >So you agree that the lives of a few kids are not worth much. I trust
you
> >don't have any. If you do, I really hope they are not the next ones to
die.
>
> This kind of ignorance is really annoying. Please accept that we
> don't have infinite money, and even if I had infinite money, you can't
> spend it.
Mike Simpson
Bennet K. Langlotz <ne...@langlotz.com> wrote in message
news:37c7f2c2....@news.teleport.com...
> "L. Patterson" <lpa...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
> >So you agree that the lives of a few kids are not worth much. I trust
you
> >don't have any. If you do, I really hope they are not the next ones to
die.
>
> This kind of ignorance is really annoying. Please accept that we
> don't have infinite money, and even if I had infinite money, you can't
> spend it.
>
> Spending $100,000,000 to save one child's life is pretty darn stupid
> when spending that on guard rails, speed traps, metal detectors, or
> vaccines would have saved a hundred lives.
>
> Get with reality!
1. Where does the $100,000,000 come from that you refer to?
2. AFAIK, NY, NJ Florida have all passed legislation *requiring*
belts/restraints on school buses and CA is heading that way?
3. The NHTSB has already issued a warning/requirement (?) that all
infants/pre-school children should wear appropriate restraints?
4. Statistics are just that...nothing more...
5. Here's a statistic for you...more children die in the US every year
from household accidents that die from childhood diseases.
Bruce Rowen
points.
Yes, I think seatbelts on school busses are a good idea IF
(and I repeat, IF) they are used.
Current bus seats have "soft", non-rigid backs so in the event of
a crash the childs impact is cushioned by the seat back in
front of them. Injuries are much worse (verified by crash dummies)
if the children are belted in with a lap-only belt. The belt acts
as a pivot point around the waist greatly increasing the velocity
of head impact on the forward seat back. To prevent this (as has
been done in passenger cars), you add a shoulder belt. For the
shoulder belt to function, it has to be rigidly mounted. This requires
the bus seatbacks to be made rigid. If the child is not properly
belted in a bus equipped with these rigid seat backs, they slam into
a more immovable object and sustain more serious injuries than they
otherwise would have received if they were in an older style bus
without belts. (verified again with crash dummies).
Bus seatbelt installation require substantial mods to older busses
and the only way to get child accedent protection back up to the
previous level is to enforce (strictly) use of the belts. If the
belts are not used the injuries will be more serious than if they
were riding in an older bus. Don't think the idea of bus belts is
somthing new
-Bruce
Socorro, NM
Bennet K. Langlotz
>The cost per bus is minimal. The cost per
>school district would be minimal. It can be phased in over time. Order a new
>bus, the cost goes up a thousand. A bus doesn't have to be in an accident
>for kids to get hurt. Simply running (or being run) off the road is enough
>for kids to suffer spinal injuries when they hit the roof. The medical costs
>of treating injuries, especially serious ones, would pay for a hell of a lot
>of belts, maybe all of them.
it all comes back to one thing.
The cost per life saved is far higher than for other measures that
have been ruled out as too expensive.
Bennet K. Langlotz
>1. Where does the $100,000,000 come from that you refer to?
A hypothetical number representing a figure far higher than the
couple-million per life figure that is the government standard for
safety measures.
>2. AFAIK, NY, NJ Florida have all passed legislation *requiring*
>belts/restraints on school buses and CA is heading that way?
Then i guess those governments know how to waste money and pander to
ignorance, while diminishing safety (by neglecting more effective
measures)
>3. The NHTSB has already issued a warning/requirement (?) that all
>infants/pre-school children should wear appropriate restraints?
In school buses?
>4. Statistics are just that...nothing more...
Nothing more than cold, hard facts.
>5. Here's a statistic for you...more children die in the US every year
>from household accidents that die from childhood diseases.
Great. So let's not waste precious dollars on bus seat belts when we
could instead invest in swing set safety inspectors, or whatever is
effective at reducing the higher magnitude problem you point out.
Worn-Out Horn
"L. Patterson" <lpa...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Ignorance is saying it will cost someone $100,000,000 to provide
safety on a
per
> school district would be minimal. It can be phased in over time. Order
a new
> bus, the cost goes up a thousand. A bus doesn't have to be in an
accident
> for kids to get hurt. Simply running (or being run) off the road is
enough
> for kids to suffer spinal injuries when they hit the roof. The medical
costs
> of treating injuries, especially serious ones, would pay for a hell of
a lot
> of belts, maybe all of them.
>
>
> Bennet K. Langlotz <ne...@langlotz.com> wrote in message
> news:37c7f2c2....@news.teleport.com...
> > "L. Patterson" <lpa...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> >
trust
> you
> > >don't have any. If you do, I really hope they are not the next ones
to
> die.
> >
> > don't have infinite money, and even if I had infinite money, you
can't
> > spend it.
>
>
I agree that school buses should have safety belts. I think
all buses should have them. Everytime I get on one, which
isn't often, I feel really vulnerable.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
David Kelly
Bennet K. Langlotz wrote:
> "Mike Simpson" <MSi...@Earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >1. Where does the $100,000,000 come from that you refer to?
>
> A hypothetical number representing a figure far higher than the
> couple-million per life figure that is the government standard for
> safety measures.
>
If it is a hypothetical number, it is irresponsible of you to use it. I agree
that there are better ways to save lives than putting belts on buses but do
everyone a favor and use relevant facts.
> >2. AFAIK, NY, NJ Florida have all passed legislation *requiring*
> >belts/restraints on school buses and CA is heading that way?
>
> Then i guess those governments know how to waste money and pander to
> ignorance, while diminishing safety (by neglecting more effective
> measures)
>
They were not mandated by governments but passed by state legislators who
were asked to push the bills, usually on behalf of some local PTA. All of
those states DO NOT require retrofitting buses as someone mentioned earlier,
just on new bus purchases. The manufacturers have said that the cost
differences are minimal.
> >3. The NHTSB has already issued a warning/requirement (?) that all
> >infants/pre-school children should wear appropriate restraints?
>
> In school buses?
>
Yes.
> >4. Statistics are just that...nothing more...
>
> Nothing more than cold, hard facts.
Except when using made up hypothetical numbers that you try to pass off as
facts.
>
>
> >5. Here's a statistic for you...more children die in the US every year
> >from household accidents that die from childhood diseases.
>
> Great. So let's not waste precious dollars on bus seat belts when we
> could instead invest in swing set safety inspectors, or whatever is
> effective at reducing the higher magnitude problem you point out.
> --
>
Here is a better statistic for you. More kids die in car crashes in this
country than any other cause of death. Why are we not addressing that issue
as opposed to something where a minimal numebr of lives would be saved if
buses had belts? Or swing set safety?
David Kelly
Robert Hancock
deceleration when colliding with anything other than a giant semitrailer
would be much less than in a car or even a huge SUV. The bus is hardly going
to be slowed down compared to the other vehicle.
--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamhome.com
Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr
Worn-Out Horn <dan...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7q8rpq$b7a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Robert Hancock
a shoulder belt system to fit everyone. If it was the wrong size for a child
it could do more harm than good.
--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamhome.com
Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr
Bruce Rowen <bro...@aoc.nrao.edu> wrote in message
news:7q6m66$kbu$1...@chaos.aoc.nrao.edu...
Ken Rentz
hanc...@nospamhome.com says...
> Think about this: A bus weighs about, what, 10 tons? The amount of
> deceleration when colliding with anything other than a giant semitrailer
> would be much less than in a car or even a huge SUV. The bus is hardly going
> to be slowed down compared to the other vehicle.
>
> Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
> To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamhome.com
> Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr
>
>
I was standing at the front of a passenger bus when the brakes failed. It
hit the car stopped in front of it going about 20. There person in the
car must have had the presence of mind to get off of the brakes because
we knocked them through the intersection like a croquet ball. The back
of the car was pretty much destroyed up to the back seat. I was left
standing the entire time. It takes a massive amount of weight to affect
something the size of a bus.
Bennet K. Langlotz
>I agree
>that there are better ways to save lives than putting belts on buses but do
>everyone a favor and use relevant facts.
I challenge those who would spend dollars on the dubious benefit to
bear the burden of proof of how much it would cost to save a life. So
far, my rough guess is the best number available. Follow the
principle: governments shouldn't spend money or require an
expenditure until they can demonstrate a reasonable benefit.
For a fair estimate, consider that one of every 2,000,000 children
dies in a bus each year. In already very safe buses, with most
fatalities being from severe crushing, I figure that belts would only
save 1/3 of the 12 deaths, or 4 kids per year. Thus, to save each of
those kids, we spend money on behalf of 6,000,000 other kids. If the
annualized cost to install and maintain belts is $16 per child, my
seemingly absurd number is actually correct. Even if it cost a buck
per child, it would be a waste of safety dollars that would be better
spent elsewhere.
>Here is a better statistic for you. More kids die in car crashes in this
>country than any other cause of death. Why are we not addressing that issue
>as opposed to something where a minimal numebr of lives would be saved if
>buses had belts?
We could address the 8000+ children who die in auto accident per year,
instead of being distracted by the 12 who die in bus crashes. Even a
tiny safety improvement in car safety would save many more lives than
would seatbelts (which would by no means save all 12, or even
necessarily more than a few, if any - when a bus gets hit by a freight
train, or is sheared in half by a semi, seat belts are no panacea.)
From NHTSA:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/buses/pub/seatbelt.hmp.html
"it should be noted that the numbers of fatalities among school bus
occupants are small when compared to those in other types of motor
vehicles. For example, in 1995, twelve occupants in a school-bus-body
type vehicle died in a crash. During the same year, 8,168 children
between the ages of 5 and 20 died as passengers or drivers in all
other types of motor vehicles."
"In 1989, NAS completed a study of ways to improve school bus safety
and concluded that the overall potential benefits of requiring seat
belts on large school buses are insufficient to justify a Federal
requirement for mandatory installation. NAS also stated that the funds
used to purchase and maintain seat belts might better be spent on
other school bus safety programs and devices that could save more
lives and reduce more injuries. "
"Rather than requiring seat belts, NHTSA decided that the best way to
provide crash protection to passengers is through a concept called
"compartmentalization." This requires that the interior of large buses
provide occupant protection so that children are protected without the
need to buckle-up. Occupant crash protection is provided by a
protective envelope consisting of strong, closely-spaced seats that
have energy-absorbing seat backs. The effectiveness of
compartmentalization has been confirmed in the NTSB and NAS studies."
"School buses are heavier, experience less crash forces, and
distribute crash forces differently than do passenger cars and light
trucks. Because of this, the crash force experienced by the passengers
of large buses is much less than that experienced by occupants of
passenger cars, light trucks, or vans. Federal regulations require the
installation of occupant restraints in motor vehicles based on the
vehicle type and size. Because the safety record of school buses is
outstanding, and because there is no compelling evidence to suggest
that seat belts would provide even higher levels of occupant
protection in crashes, NHTSA agrees with the NAS report that there is
insufficient reason for a Federal mandate for seat belts on large
school buses."
Bennet K. Langlotz
>And the question could be asked "why are we discussing this in a home
>repair group?"..
It originated there, and has been properly retitled so those
uninterested in the subject (but interested in the original subject)
can hit the little ignore button, instead of wasting their time
posting whiny complaints like yours.
Why did you bother reading a message on school bus seats?
Worn-Out Horn
Yeah, tell that to the families of the kids (27 I think) who got
killed in Kentucky 10 years ago when that drunk larry mahoney
(doesn't even deserve to have his name in proper case) hit a
school bus head-on on an freeway. He was driving a small pick-up.
Bennet K. Langlotz
>Why did you bother reading my reply which wasn't to you anyway?
You posted it in a public newsgroup in a thread I was following.
JCWCONSULT
should save one live for each $2.7 million dollars spent.
The principle is that if an item costs, say $4 million per life saved, then
that $$ could be spent on other things that would save more lives.
They DO ignore this on some issues, such as air bags, where the cost per life
saved has been in the order of $5 million to $20 million per life saved so far.
It would have been VERY EASY for even minimally-educated consumers to have
purchased more safety with those dollars than air bags provided, even if you
believe all the rose-colored-glasses estimates from NHTSA on the benefits of
air bags and ignore all the tragedies.
Regards,
Jim Walker
young richard christopher
argue with the wishes of the usenet?
ANywho...
Those who would wish for seat belts on school buses obviously haven't been
a K-12 (uh, that's shorthand for pre-college school grades, for you
non-american types) student in a long while. I highly doubt that the
already outnumbered and none-too-popular bus drivers could get great
compliance numbers. My biggest concern, however, is how handy a weapon a
metal seat belt buckle would make in the hands of the cool kids (a group,
obviously, I was not part of). Those types of kids don't need help in
making others's lives miserable. That's what I see as the number one use
for seat belts on school buses; as a kind of makeshift mace-type weapon.
Think back to grade school. If you don't remember some kids being this
mean-spirited, you were probably one of them...
(not that I'm bitter, oh no, not me.)
Richard
'99 SVT Contour
On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Robert Hancock wrote:
> Also, kids vary greatly in height, so it would be quite difficult to design
> a shoulder belt system to fit everyone. If it was the wrong size for a child
> it could do more harm than good.
>
> --
> Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
> To email, remove "nospam" from hanc...@nospamhome.com
> Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr
>
>
Marc
>Ignorance is saying it will cost someone $100,000,000 to provide safety on a
>mass transit system for kids. The cost per bus is minimal.
That's the second time you asserted this. How much? It cost almost
$100 to add 2 seatbelts to a car I had that was otherwise not
equipped. At $50 each, you are looking at billions.
I'd like your wallet, if billions is trivial.
Marc
Marc
>x-no-archive: yes
>>Yeah, tell that to the families of the kids (27 I think) who got
>>killed in Kentucky 10 years ago when that drunk larry mahoney
>>(doesn't even deserve to have his name in proper case) hit a
>>school bus head-on on an freeway. He was driving a small pick-up.
>you imagine the horror of even a small fire with 60 panicked kids
>strapped in seatbelts. Or a rogue shooting like at Columbine.
Actually, there was a bus accident where a bus fell into a quarry
(that's what the news called it, but it looked more like the hole
preparing to build a house with a basement, not a "quarry" that makes
me thing of something miles across and hundreds of feet deep). The
quarry was filled with water after a recent rain, and the bus was
sinking. There were some students that died because a lack of
emergency exits.
I can only imagine how many more would have died with seatbelts on.
Not that this is a common occurance, but I've been in busses that have
had accidents, and I've roomed with someone that drive busses; busses
generally win. It takes a fire or water to kill the people inside.
Marc
art james
art james
T
> Not that this is a common occurance, but I've been in busses that have
> had accidents, and I've roomed with someone that drive busses; busses
> generally win. It takes a fire or water to kill the people inside.
Or a train. Weren't there fatalities in the Chicago suburb a couple
years ago?
art james
> (that's what the news called it, but it looked more like the hole
> preparing to build a house with a basement, not a "quarry" that makes
> me thing of something miles across and hundreds of feet deep). The
> quarry was filled with water after a recent rain, and the bus was
> sinking. There were some students that died because a lack of
> emergency exits.
>
> I can only imagine how many more would have died with seatbelts on.
>
> had accidents, and I've roomed with someone that drive busses; busses
> generally win. It takes a fire or water to kill the people inside.
>
Quit crossposting this to alt.home.repair...
art james
>
> Marc wrote:
>
> > Not that this is a common occurance, but I've been in busses that have
> > had accidents, and I've roomed with someone that drive busses; busses
> > generally win. It takes a fire or water to kill the people inside.
>
Francis K.
web page about seat belts and school buses.
http://cnn.com/CNN/Programs/impact/9801/18/feature/fact.sheet.html
Personal opinion is this. School buses that are used to pick up children in
the suburbs and cities don't need seat belts. At the speeds buses should be
going on the surface streets in the city and suburbs with all the stop and
go to pick up kids it would take a very freak accident to have kids get hurt
with or without seat belts.
School buses used to transport students on field trips or for sports where
they will be on the freeway or traveling long distances on 55mph country
roads should have them. The chance of a serious accident where the bus could
possibly roll over or be involved in a high speed collision is much greater.
Just my opinion.
Francis K
kki...@lightstream.net
young richard christopher <rc-y...@dclsn7.ews.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.990829...@dclsn7.ews.uiuc.edu...
art james
It's being crossposted at this point between home repair and auto.
Remove alt.home.repair when replying.
aj
L. Patterson
Marc <Gum...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
news:37d69924....@news.texas.net...
Harry Hall
> Seatbelts don't prevent that. In fact, can
>you imagine the horror of even a small fire with 60 panicked kids
>strapped in seatbelts. Or a rogue shooting like at Columbine.
======
I don't remember any deaths on school buses at Columbine.
art james
art james
Marc
>I did not write that. I quoted it.
It is the "minimal" comment I was taking issue with, and I thought
that was yours.
rric...@lanminds.com
.
>>======
>> I don't remember any deaths on school buses at Columbine.
>
>I was saying that these child shooters will eventually get the idea to
>open fire on a school bus.
Why do you say that? The students targeted at Columbine were not
random. They were picked with a great deal of precision.. the pretty
ones, the popular ones. While someone may eventually get the idea to
just shoot up a bus.. they could also do that to cars going down the
street. I prefer to protect myself from the most likely causes of
injury by wearing a seatbelt, and not worry about the few cases where
that will make things worse.
Rebecca
Remove "not" when replying by email
art james
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> >On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:09:07 GMT, webm...@cableid.com (toddh) wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Seatbelts don't prevent that. In fact, can
> >>you imagine the horror of even a small fire with 60 panicked kids
> >>strapped in seatbelts. Or a rogue shooting like at Columbine.
art james
>
> On Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:45:49 GMT, webm...@cableid.com (toddh) wrote:
>
> .
> >> I don't remember any deaths on school buses at Columbine.
> >
> >I was saying that these child shooters will eventually get the idea to
> >open fire on a school bus.
>
art james
L. Patterson
my participation with the following:
I thought you were referring to the dollar amount. I did say minimal, and I
stand by that.
No one person, organization, locality, etc. is or will be responsible for
the entire amount. When the cost is spread amongst all the new buses that
will be bought over the next 10-15-20 years, it will be minimal. I never
said you should require all buses to be outfitted with belts. You paying
$100 for two belts it no way reflects the cost that is incurred by GM, Ford,
or any other vehicle maker for the cost of belts.
Someone commented on the kids that died when their bus was hit by a drunk
driver. Not knowing the autopsy results, I can't comment on how many died in
the collision, and how many died from the resulting fire. But an educated
guess would tell me that very few, if any, of them remained in their seats
during the accident. They would have been left dazed, confused, and hurt.
They would not have known which way was up, down, front or back. If they had
been belted, they would have, more then likely, remained in their seats.
They would have had a lot better chance of figuring out were they where in
those first few, scary moments.
17 years as a firefighter has shown me that most 'accidents' of any and all
kinds, and the resulting deaths, injuries, and damage, are basically the
result of people thinking 'I've done it this way all my life, and never had
a problem'. They won't take a few seconds to answer 'what if?'. Of the
couple hundred dead people I have seen in vehicle accidents, only two wear
wearing seatbelts. An autopsy showed that one of them had a fatal heart
attack just before crossing the double yellow and hitting a loaded dump
truck head on. A big argument against seat belts is that 'I want to be able
to crawl out if my car is on fire'. Those are the people who believe that
the slightest bump will cause their car to explode 'TV style'. They just
don't get the fact that once you get hit, or hit something, the vehicle
starts slowing down, but because you aren't belted to the seat, you are
still going as fast as the car was before impact. It the split seconds after
impact, you are being thrown from the seat, hitting things, maybe being
ejected. In short, the chances of you riding it out with no or minor
injuries are greatly reduced.
Oh, yeah. One more thing. I won't ever forget the bus wreak we responded to
in the early 80's that killed 11 people, ten of them on the scene. Have you
ever tried to move, let alone pick up, a body that had so many broken bones
that it was like trying to move a huge water balloon? I'm just thankful they
were adults, and not kids.
Larry
Marc <Gum...@ticnet.com> wrote in message
news:37ccce3f...@news.texas.net...
art james
If you really want to end the thread in home repair why can't you just
remove alt.home.repair when you send a reply post?
Marc
>Since this so far off topic and doesn't belong in this NG, I am going to end
>my participation with the following:
>
>I thought you were referring to the dollar amount. I did say minimal, and I
>stand by that.
>
>No one person, organization, locality, etc. is or will be responsible for
>the entire amount. When the cost is spread amongst all the new buses that
>will be bought over the next 10-15-20 years, it will be minimal. I never
>said you should require all buses to be outfitted with belts. You paying
>$100 for two belts it no way reflects the cost that is incurred by GM, Ford,
>or any other vehicle maker for the cost of belts.
So you are not for retrofitting them. Given the numbers of busses
that don't have them, I was thinking that you were saying they should
be added to all busses. That would be very expensive.
If you add them in slowly by having new busses come with them, and
older ones without, then you have consistency issues. There are some
routes in big cities where the busses aren't the same every day, or if
there is mechanical difficulties, and compliance (of children wearing
belts) would suffer.
Marc
Richard Masoner
T <te...@uuwm.edu> writes:
> Marc wrote:
>> It takes a fire or water to kill the people inside.
>
> Or a train. Weren't there fatalities in the Chicago suburb a couple
> years ago?
Yes, a commuter train creamed the back of a school bus near Chicago.
I don't know if seatbelts would have helped or not.
Richard Masoner, wondering what this has to do with alt.home.repair
note followup
PaulMmn
changes, most buses don't last all that long in service. It only
takes a few years to roll up several hundred thousand miles, at which
time the vehicle is sold to some private individual to turn into a
camper.
The bus company will then purchase a new vehicle, with seat belts.
I'd guess that within 5-10 years, all buses would be equipped with
seat belts.
The point is not how long it will take, but that if we don't do a
thing, in 5-10 years the bus companies will still have new buses.
--Paul E Musselman
Pau...@ix.netcom.nospam.com