Dana 300 Twin Stick operation
RandyRoo
Can someone please shed some light on the exact operation of each
shifter lever on the 1980 Jeep Dana 300 Transfer case.
I am contemplating the Currie Twin Stick and I would like to know if
any Front Wheel drive only options become available with this
modification.
The current positions with both shifter pins tied together is
4WD - Low
N
2WD - High
4WD - High
What will be the pattern for each shifter when they operate
independently?
What I am looking for is something like:
4WD-Low Left stick Forward, Right Stick forward
2WD-Low Rear ???,???
2WD-Low Front ???,???
2WD-High Rear ???,???
2WD-High Front ???,???
4WD-High Left stick Back, Right Stick Back
I don't really know if all these combinations are possible but looking
for what the function of each lever really is.
Thanks in advance,
Randy R. Creller
Rand...@hotmail.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
xia...@my-deja.com
whether you are in high or low range, and the other will control
whether you are in 2 or 4 wheel drive. The rear wheels will always be
driven, as that is how the case is constructed. You only gain the
ability to go into 2 lo when you go to twin-stick, which is nice in
some situations, plus the shifts will be cleaner since transfer case
linkages aren't exactly high-precision devices. Each shift rail in the
case only has two positions, in and out, for a total of four
combinations: XX, XO, OX, OO. Sorry to disappoint you.
In article <8mu6nb$fai$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Dale Anderson
>You will never get front wheel drive only. One lever will control
>whether you are in high or low range, and the other will control
>whether you are in 2 or 4 wheel drive. The rear wheels will always be
>driven, as that is how the case is constructed. You only gain the
>ability to go into 2 lo when you go to twin-stick, which is nice in
>some situations, plus the shifts will be cleaner since transfer case
>linkages aren't exactly high-precision devices. Each shift rail in the
>case only has two positions, in and out, for a total of four
>combinations: XX, XO, OX, OO. Sorry to disappoint you.
>
Let me say right off that I am not familiar with how the 300 works,
but I have a '74 Bronco with a Dana 20 Tcase and a twin shifter kit.
With this setup, the left lever controls the front axle and the right
lever controls the rear axle. The pattern for both levers is low
range forward, neutral middle, and high range back. With this, I can
have front wheel (low or high) only in addition to rear only low. The
only combination the Tcase will NOT allow, of course, is front low and
rear high (or the opposite). Again, without knowing the 300, I
cannot agree or disagree with you, I can just point out that other
Dana transfer cases do offer this option.
Dale Anderson
spec...@frontier.net
Durango, Colorado
xia...@my-deja.com
> Let me say right off that I am not familiar with how the 300 works,
> but I have a '74 Bronco with a Dana 20 Tcase and a twin shifter kit.
> With this setup, the left lever controls the front axle and the right
> lever controls the rear axle. The pattern for both levers is low
> range forward, neutral middle, and high range back. With this, I can
> have front wheel (low or high) only in addition to rear only low. The
> only combination the Tcase will NOT allow, of course, is front low and
> rear high (or the opposite). Again, without knowing the 300, I
> cannot agree or disagree with you, I can just point out that other
> Dana transfer cases do offer this option.
>
> Dale Anderson
> spec...@frontier.net
> Durango, Colorado
Bizarre. I have never heard of that. The 20 must have a complex shift
rail system to keep that organized. Every t-case I have ever heard of
has one rail controlling 2 or 4wd, and the other one controlling the
range (hi-Lo). If that is the case (pun unintended) then you could have
front wheel drive only.
RandyRoo
Let me see if I understand this correctly,
There must actually be 4 postions on each if they work with 4 positions
when tied together right???
With 1 stick the shifters are tied together and you have 4 positions
4WD Low
Neutral
2WD High
4WD High
With Twin sticks Looking at the shifters as you would sitting in the
vehicle looking down.
The left Shifter is Low
Neutral, Low OR High??? (What is this???)
High
High
The Right Shifter is 4WD
Neutral, 2WD, or 4WD ??? (What is this???)
2WD
4WD
Do both shift levers have a neutral or is the left just
low,low,high,high???
What will be the Shifter positions for the Neutral Position???
What will be the shifter postions 2WD Rear Low???
Left forward, Right 2WD OR neutral???
Thanks for your help,
Randy R. Creller
Rand...@hotmail.com
xia...@my-deja.com wrote:
> You will never get front wheel drive only. One lever will control
> whether you are in high or low range, and the other will control
> whether you are in 2 or 4 wheel drive. The rear wheels will always be
> driven, as that is how the case is constructed. You only gain the
> ability to go into 2 lo when you go to twin-stick, which is nice in
> some situations, plus the shifts will be cleaner since transfer case
> linkages aren't exactly high-precision devices. Each shift rail in the
> case only has two positions, in and out, for a total of four
> combinations: XX, XO, OX, OO. Sorry to disappoint you.
>
xia...@my-deja.com
both shift rails are tied together means nothing. Get under the truck
sometime (lock the emergency brake or chock the wheels!) and have
someone else shift the t-case lever. You should see that sometimes both
rails move, and sometimes ony one does. As the lever moves back and
forth, sometimes it won't engage one or the other rail.
In article <8mur5m$vv3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Mister4x4
DANA 300 T-case, but I can say this:
You'll have a front-wheel drive only option. When you move the lever (which
is, after all, tied to both rails) both rails move into each position - thus
meaning that each rail has 4 positions. The kicker is that the lever that
controls the front drive gearset, has 2 Neutral positions - which is why you
have rear drive and not front drive in 2-Hi.
Which means that one lever will have Low, Neutral, High & High positions
(the rear drive lever), and the other will have Low, Neutral, Neutral & High
positions (the front drive lever). This will also be the order of the lever
positions based on a 4-Low, Neutral, 2-Hi & 4-Hi position set-up when the
rails are tied together - such as in the 'case' of the DANA 300.
By shifting the rear drive lever into Neutral, and the front drive lever
into High or Low, you should have front-wheel drive only. This would be
especially helpful if you blow out a rear axle.
To find out which lever controls which drive line, put the Jeep on four
jackstands with the wheels in the air, and commence to shifting the T-case
levers and observing the results. I would suggest as a precautionary
measure, to ensure that the wheels have stopped moving before selecting a
different lever position by stepping on the brakes before each change.
Record the effects each position has on the drivetrain.
The really fun combinations will be when you select 'Rear-Hi'/'Front-Low' or
'Rear-Low'/'Front-Hi' - both of the axles will spin at different rates. As
you write down the shift position levers' results, make sure you avoid those
2 combinations when the Jeep is back on the ground - the transfer case, hubs
and both differentials are at risk of destroying themselves in this
operation. Putting some kind of diagram together and keeping it in the Jeep
(just in case) might not be a bad idea in case you forget, or somebody else
needs to drive your Jeep.
The Currie kit should come with some kind of instructions that will clear
this up, plus warn against the use of the T-case with the split ratios front
and back.
Personally, I don't see the advantages in a twin-stick set-up other than for
convenience if a rear axle ever goes south - I'd simply remove the rear
drive shaft in that instance. I also can't see any benefit in driving a
Jeep in front-wheel drive just for grins - mine wanders too much as it is.
Plus, I'm not always at my smartest when it gets hairy, so I'd rather not
even have the option of negligently risking the T-case when it comes down to
it. But I'm sure those who have the set-up have found the advantages and
uses for them, and that's why they're still around and gaining in
popularity. Low-range 2WD towing would be the first thing that comes to
mind, but I don't use my Jeep for that.
Hope this helps.
Eric
http://members.xoom.com/mr4x4/off.htm
.
Clameeter
rear, both, and high in rear only.
j5
http://www.users.uswest.net/~j5/
RandyRoo
So Let me re-iterate to make sure that I am understanding you.
This is the way I see it then
Single Stick Twin Stick
Rear Front
4wd L L L
N N N
2wd H H N
4wd H H H
Question : In my 1980 Jeep Dana 300 are there any internal barrel
sleeves inside the transfer case on the Front Shift Rail that prevent
2wd front only.
I.E they only allow Front Low and High if the Rear shift Rail is in the
same Low or High???
This would prevent the cross up one high and the other low. This may
simply be handled by tieing the 2 together in the single stick
combination???
I read something about this in a Binder Bunch right up of a Scout 300
not a jeep Dana 300 Twin Stick application at the following URL:
http://www.off-road.com/~jweed/twinstck.htm
Here is another good link for a homemade Twin Stick if you already have
a second shifter from another Dana 300 transfer case
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/jeep/
In article <sp6qgk...@corp.supernews.com>,
Mister4x4
Yes, you got the gist of my post, despite the fact that I get too wordy
sometimes. Nice job on the 'diagram,' wish I would've simply put that
instead of rambling on like I did.
I'm not aware of any restrictive devices inside the case. When I had my
T-case out of the Jeep, I cycled both shift rails independently of each
other and mentally noted the results (while I was waiting for the
transmission case to come out of the parts washer). At that time, I came to
the realization of how the Atlas worked - they simply put a shifter on each
of the rails, versus having them tied together, as is the factory set up.
I'm pretty sure that the Currie set up is similar to what is used on the
Atlas 'case, otherwise it would probably be way more expensive and require
you to get into the 'case for modifications. Plus, you'll notice that the
guy on that link you had at the bottom of your last post (thank you for that
link - BTW - it's pretty cool) - he didn't open his 'case...it was left in
the Jeep while he did all this. He mentioned what a PITA it was to
fabricated the brackets while in the 'upside down' position, instead of
taking it out of the Jeep.
So based on the 'ease' of installation, and my experience in 'playing' with
the shift rails - No, there should not be any restrictive devices on the
front drive lever system (IMHO only). In other words, if you open your case
up and find some, I'll be surprised. I don't have a twin stick set up, nor
will I probably ever get one (I still really can't see the need). But if I
do ever go for it, I'll probably do what the guy from Slee Off Road did and
make my own from another shift stick.
Hope this helps Man,
Eric
http://members.xoom.com/mr4x4/off.htm
mist...@tcainternet.com
RandyRoo
I spoke with R. Cushman Associates in Lavonia, MI on Friday and
confirmed this with an engineer, They now have the rights to produce
the Spicer Transfer Case Model 300, bought them back in 1986 from Dana
Spicer.
I also had my Transfer Case out and confirmed this on a bench.
Basically on the Dana 300 the intermediate shaft spins all the time in
2WD and in 4WD so there is power available to both the Front and Rear
shafts at all times. Therefore they can work independently except, an
interlock inside the case on the shift rails prevents crossing up the
shafts 1 High other Low, and also prevents 2wd Front High.
With the interlock in place and twin sticks you get:
Rear Stick Front Stick
L L
N N
H H
You get all combinations of this:
Rear Stick Front Stick Potential Uses
L L 4wd Low Offroad 4X4
L N 2wd Rear Low Towing Offroad, Lockers
N L 2WD Front Low Steep Decent with E-Brake
N N Neutral Flat Towing with Paddles
H N 2wd Rear High Daily Driving
H H 4WD High Highway 4X4
Except for the following:
Rear Stick Front Stick
L H Crossed Axles
N H 2wd Front High
H L Crossed Axles
A Word of Caution!!!
Removing this interlock by opening the transfer case and basically
completely doing a rebuild, all gears out, all gears back in, to get
the shift rails out and remove the interlock, gives you all the options
but you now have the ability to break something if you cross them up 1
High and 1 Low.
(But you do get 2WD Front High)
I have heard some 4X4 racers have done this on dirt tracks to enable
rear breaking to slide the vehicle around a turn.
So the there is no more mystery to how the Spicer Transfer Case Model
300 works.
I have already build my homemade twin stick kit with a spare Dana 300
Shifter Lever from a Junkyard, Some 1/2 black pipe, and 1 Inch flat bar
stock and a 7/16 4 inch bolt. Not a bad set up at all. Have to heat
and bend one of the shifters a little but no big deal.
Hope to build up a few kits and sell them on the Internet stay tuned.
Hope this helps someone,
Randy R. Creller
Rand...@hotmail.com
Mister4x4
Sorry I wasn't more help and you wound up having to make the call. But, I'm
glad you have the correct answer to your question, instead of my partially
incorrect answer. I really wasn't sure that there was a 'fail safe' device
in there to preclude crossing up the ratios and doing damage - good to know.
My info was based on some first-hand observation (when I had my T-case out
over 2 years ago - I've slept since then BTW) and some fleeting thoughts
into how to make the twin-stick work when they first came out. I hope I
don't seem like some idiot just giving out bad information.
Thanks for sharing the outcome of your phone conversation. At the very
least, this has convinced me that I have no use for the twin-stick setup and
if I need to put the Jeep in 2-Hi Front Wheel Drive, then I'll simply remove
the rear driveshaft, like I did when I dropped the rear shaft some time ago.
Later!
Eric
http://members.xoom.com/mr4x4/off.htm
mister4x4 <at> tcainternet <dot> com