XTERRA Rollover Statistics
Goodfellow
calculated index for rollover problems with an XTERRA. Does anyone
know how to find out how many XTERRAs actually have been involved in
roll over accidents. Does anyone have a suggestion for a comparable
offroad vehicle that has better roll over ratings?
Jerry Bransford
that crap convince you from buying one if you like it. ANY vehicle will
roll if driven inappropriately. The only rollover I've been in in my
life was a small Datsun station wagon yet none of my 4x4 trucks and
Jeeps have ever rolled. If you want it, don't let some mealy-mouthed
Washington attorney or Consumer Reports convince you to buy a Toyota
Camry.
Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL KC6TAY
The Zen Hotdog... make me one with everything!
Geezer Jeep: http://www.jjournal.net/jeep/gallery/JBransfordsTJ/
Dale McMillan
Totally Agree! All high center of gravity vehicles are at higher risk. The
problem is that more and more people are buying higher risk vehicles,
including Mini Vans. Furthermore people don't realize the increased risks
associated with careless driving. All you have to do is read the sun visor.
It seems to be common sense to me and most others, but the grocery getters
crowd are probably thinking about little Johnny's next dentist appointment,
instead of the tight corner up ahead.....
Bryan
spin around on the highway at about 65 MPH! Little bit of my fault for
oversteering a bit, but what can you do when a jogger stroller flies out of
the pickup in front of you and lands in your lane? Anyway, the point is, I
spun her around in a full 360, and didn't roll over. I think a lot of this
rollover stuff is from doomsdayers that want to have something to talk
about.
(Though I got through this mishap unscathed.... I wouldn't recommend anyone
go out and give it a try!)
Bryan
97 TJ
"Goodfellow" <vgoodf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:602b3549.01090...@posting.google.com...
Eric Lee Green
Hash: SHA1
On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:39:56 GMT, Jerry Bransford <Jer...@home.com> wrote:
>Oh for Heaven's sakes... I'm no Xterra fan, far from it, but don't let
>that crap convince you from buying one if you like it. ANY vehicle will
>roll if driven inappropriately. The only rollover I've been in in my
>life was a small Datsun station wagon yet none of my 4x4 trucks and
>Jeeps have ever rolled. If you want it, don't let some mealy-mouthed
>Washington attorney or Consumer Reports convince you to buy a Toyota
>Camry.
Oh for heavens sake, quit spouting the auto industry propoganda line.
The Xterra has a high center of gravity and rolls over more easily than
a Toyota Camry. If you are looking for nimble on-road handling, do not
buy the Xterra, buy a Mazda Miata or something similarly low-slung.
If you want an Xterra, buy one for cryin' out loud, just remember that it
*will* roll if you undertake sudden evasive maneuvers in it, and adjust
your driving accordingly. For example, if a bale of hay falls out of the
pickup truck ahead of you, run over it -- don't try to avoid it.
Yeah, you'll probably get some damage to your truck, but a helluva lot
less damage than rolling it would have been.
Eric Lee Green er...@badtux.org http://www.badtux.org
GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg
Liberty. Freedom. Linux. BadTux.
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Jerry Bransford
> *will* roll if you undertake sudden evasive maneuvers in it, and adjust
> your driving accordingly.
That's just plain bullshit. Claiming ANY vehicle, high CG or not,
"will" roll with a sudden eveasive maneuver is just plain....
b-u-l-l-sh-i-t.
Jerry
Stephan Rothstein
>
> Eric Lee Green wrote:just remember that it
> > *will* roll if you undertake sudden evasive maneuvers in it, and adjust
> > your driving accordingly.
>
> That's just plain bullshit. Claiming ANY vehicle, high CG or not,
> "will" roll with a sudden eveasive maneuver is just plain....
> b-u-l-l-sh-i-t.
Actually Jerry, he is just spouting the Consumer Reports Anti SUV
propaganda line, much as he claims you are spouting the auto industry
propaganda line. The difference is that you have experience with the
vehicles and are just warning the person that it handles differently and
to drive it like that.
He is claiming it will roll if you evade something, so just hit it. Note
how he says a hay bale like they are soft (I guess he never hit one
while it was still wired and packed). Wonder what his advice would be if
it were something like a Lazy Boy recliner that fell of the truck in
front of you.
Steve Rothstein
Eric Lee Green
wrote:
>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>> Eric Lee Green wrote:just remember that it
>> > *will* roll if you undertake sudden evasive maneuvers in it, and adjust
>> > your driving accordingly.
>>
>> That's just plain bullshit. Claiming ANY vehicle, high CG or not,
>> "will" roll with a sudden eveasive maneuver is just plain....
>> b-u-l-l-sh-i-t.
>Actually Jerry, he is just spouting the Consumer Reports Anti SUV
>propaganda line, much as he claims you are spouting the auto industry
No, I am reporting my experience with pickup trucks, and a friend's
experience with a Toyota 4-Runner (another narrow vehicle with high
center of gravity). He swerved to avoid an obstacle in the road, and
reports that he was suddenly a millimeter away from rolling -- only two
wheels were on the ground. He reports that he boing-boinged from one
set of wheels to the other for about 100 feet, shitting bricks all the
way.
Granted, the pickup truck that I rolled was a Ford Ranger (the old one
with swing-axle suspension, swing-axle suspension is notorious for
tucking under during vigorous maneuvers and caterpaulting you over),
my Chevy S-10 with "real" suspension was a lot more stable. On the
other hand, it was a long-wheelbase long-bed pickup so it had a lower
center of gravity than the Ranger (more metal below the beltline, due to
the longer frame and bed)...
>propaganda line. The difference is that you have experience with the
>vehicles and are just warning the person that it handles differently and
>to drive it like that.
>
>He is claiming it will roll if you evade something, so just hit it. Note
>how he says a hay bale like they are soft (I guess he never hit one
>while it was still wired and packed). Wonder what his advice would be if
>it were something like a Lazy Boy recliner that fell of the truck in
>front of you.
Note that I have lived on a farm. I have up close and personal
experience with hay bales, both during the haying process and during
storage/use. If you hit one, you will have damage, maybe as much as
$2500 worth of damage where they have to uncrinkle your grill and
hood. But that's a lot cheaper than rolling the vehicle and totalling
it, especially when you add in the cost of the ambulance, the x-rays
to make sure you haven't broken your neck or back, the pain of cracked
ribs for the next six months from where the seatbelt kept you from
being caterpaulted through the windshield, etc. Believe me, I know
from personal experience :-(. And yes, if a Lazy-Boy recliner falls
out of a pickup in front of me and I'm driving something like an
XTerra, that Lazy-Boy is toast, because I am *NOT* going to attempt to
avoid it. I'm too aware of the uncertain handling of tall SUV's to
trust my ability to maneuver without flipping, the brake pedal gets
shoved down with all due force and for the rest I trust in God and
Japanese steel.
This isn't to say that you should not buy an XTerra or similar
vehicle. I'm thinking nowdays that I should have, because for what I
want it's a better vehicle than the smaller/less capable vehicle I
eventually bought. I'm just saying that you must be aware of its
limits, and, more importantly, your own limits. I know that I do not
have the reflexes to keep it from rolling in high speed maneuvers when
wheels start coming off the ground, and thus am not going to put
myself into such a situation.
People not being aware of their own limits (much less the vehicle's
limits!) is what causes the majority of rollovers. There are
altogether too many people -- both on this newsgroup, and in real life
-- who are legends in their own mind when they get behind the
wheel. While I am a good driver, I learned how to drive behind the
wheel of low-slung cars (and go-carts!) that were virtually impossible
to flip, and my reflexes are utterly inappropriate for a tall vehicle
such as the typical SUV. And denial bullshit like "oh, XTerras don't
flip easily" just feeds into the whole "legend in their own mind" bit,
and makes it more likely that they'll attempt something that's beyond
either the vehicle's capabilities or their own capabilities.
Jerry Bransford
4Runner rolled over, all it says is he THOUGHT it was close to rolling
over. You said he swerved to avoid an obstacle... and he did NOT roll
over. You originally said an evasive maneuver "will" (your word!) cause
a rollover. The best word for your wild claims is, again, bullshit.
You're like the misled individual who kept screaming 'the sky is
falling, the sky is falling'. Get off the CR bandwagon, you're
exaggerating the situation well beyond being reasonable. You're as bad
as the press... jump on a story to gain readership... regardless of how
real it is.
Jerry
--
Chris Phillipo
Jerry Bransford wrote:
> You just went way overboard. Your story doesn't say your "friend's"
> 4Runner rolled over, all it says is he THOUGHT it was close to rolling
> over. You said he swerved to avoid an obstacle... and he did NOT roll
> over. You originally said an evasive maneuver "will" (your word!) cause
> a rollover. The best word for your wild claims is, again, bullshit.
> You're like the misled individual who kept screaming 'the sky is
> falling, the sky is falling'. Get off the CR bandwagon, you're
> exaggerating the situation well beyond being reasonable. You're as bad
> as the press... jump on a story to gain readership... regardless of how
> real it is.
>
> Jerry
>
Not to mention if it oscillated back and forth like that for 100 feet it probably
has some clapped out suspension, in which case he's a danger to himself and others
on the road anyway.
--
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Eric Lee Green
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 11:05:35 -0300, Chris Phillipo <Xcphi...@ns.sympatico.ca
> wrote:
>Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
>> You just went way overboard. Your story doesn't say your "friend's"
>> 4Runner rolled over, all it says is he THOUGHT it was close to rolling
>> over. You said he swerved to avoid an obstacle... and he did NOT roll
My Ford Ranger (basically same vehicle as previous-generation Ford
Explorer except with a different body) *DID* roll over. Do I need to
show you the healed crack lines on my chest x-rays?
>> You're like the misled individual who kept screaming 'the sky is
>> falling, the sky is falling'. Get off the CR bandwagon, you're
I do not subscribe to CR. I have not read CR in years. The assumption that
it will roll if you make a vigorous evasive maneuver is the safe assumption,
because it is more likely true than not, given the typical SUV's capabilities
and the typical driver's capabilities (or lack thereof).
>> exaggerating the situation well beyond being reasonable. You're as bad
>> as the press... jump on a story to gain readership... regardless of how
>> real it is.
And exactly how do I benefit here by stating my opinion, other than getting
lots of abuse from industry propogandists who believe everything they're
told by the auto industry's pet magazines? (Ever wonder why the worst piece
of shit car *never* gets panned by outfits like Car & Driver or
Motor Trend? Ask Click'n'Clack what happens when they pan a shit car, that
manufacturer never sends them a car to test again!).
>Not to mention if it oscillated back and forth like that for 100 feet
>it probably has some clapped out suspension, in which case he's a
>danger to himself and others on the road anyway.
Sorry. It was a nearly new Toyota 4-Runner. His dad bought it to tow a
boat with, but was not towing a boat at the time. He liked the truck,
and sometimes bashed around in the desert with his friends in it, but
he owns a Miata now (he's not much of an outdoors type, his idea of a
fun time is to slap a steak on the grill and set some potatoes baking
- -- somewhat of a homebody, in other words).
Again, I'm not saying don't buy a 4x4 or SUV. There's plenty of reasons to
buy one, some of which are even good reasons (such as needing the towing
ability, or needing the ability to handle rugged heavily-rutted forest
service roads, or even, gasp, go offroad). Just that you can't expect to
make the kinds of maneuvers you would make in a Miata, and stay upright.
Everything is a tradeoff. You trade off handling for offroad ability.
There's no getting around that tradeoff, unless you want to make the
thing fifteen feet wide like a HMMV, which is yet another tradeoff (who
wants a vehicle that you can't park in a standard parking space?!).
Eric Lee Green er...@badtux.org http://www.badtux.org
GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg
Liberty. Freedom. Linux. BadTux.
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Chris Phillipo
> Sorry. It was a nearly new Toyota 4-Runner. His dad bought it to tow a
> boat with, but was not towing a boat at the time. He liked the truck,
> and sometimes bashed around in the desert with his friends in it, but
I'm glad your sorry, but I don't know why you then go on to say it was "nearly
new". What does that have to do with it? I'm telling you for a fact if it
happened as you describe there was something wrong with the suspension.
> make the kinds of maneuvers you would make in a Miata, and stay upright.
> Everything is a tradeoff. You trade off handling for offroad ability.
> There's no getting around that tradeoff, unless you want to make the
> thing fifteen feet wide like a HMMV, which is yet another tradeoff (who
> wants a vehicle that you can't park in a standard parking space?!).
>
Nice back tracking. At least assholes at CR stick to their guns.
Nospamtoday
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Mark
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Maximum Frog
Eric Lee Green <er...@badtux.org> wrote in message
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> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2001 03:39:56 GMT, Jerry Bransford <Jer...@home.com>
wrote:
> >Oh for Heaven's sakes... I'm no Xterra fan, far from it, but don't let
> >that crap convince you from buying one if you like it. ANY vehicle will
> >roll if driven inappropriately. The only rollover I've been in in my
> >life was a small Datsun station wagon yet none of my 4x4 trucks and
> >Jeeps have ever rolled. If you want it, don't let some mealy-mouthed
> >Washington attorney or Consumer Reports convince you to buy a Toyota
> >Camry.
>
> Oh for heavens sake, quit spouting the auto industry propoganda line.
> The Xterra has a high center of gravity and rolls over more easily than
> a Toyota Camry. If you are looking for nimble on-road handling, do not
> buy the Xterra, buy a Mazda Miata or something similarly low-slung.
>
> If you want an Xterra, buy one for cryin' out loud, just remember that it
> *will* roll if you undertake sudden evasive maneuvers in it, and adjust
> your driving accordingly. For example, if a bale of hay falls out of the
> pickup truck ahead of you, run over it -- don't try to avoid it.
or leave enough room between you and that vehicle that, if something should
happen, you can avoid bad things. Ever see someone on a FREEWAY stomp the
brakes because of a dead squirrle in the road? that '3 second rule' works
wonders. :0)
kept me from destroying my '66 f-100