What's your favourite tape?
fai...@m.cs.uiuc.edu
Consumer Reports published tests and comparative ratings of many audio
cassette tapes of all three types about a year ago. I can retrieve my copy
if you wish.
-- Mike Faiman, Urbana fai...@cs.uiuc.edu
Ron Nash
> Consumer Reports published tests and comparative ratings of many audio
>cassette tapes of all three types about a year ago. I can retrieve my copy
>if you wish.
The current issue of Audio Magazine (on the newstands right now) has a
extensive review of 80 different audio cassette tapes! Check it out.
--
Ron Nash
San Diego State University
Internet: na...@ucselx.sdsu.edu
UUCP: ucsd!sdsu!ucselx!nash
fai...@m.cs.uiuc.edu
Here is a summary of CU's data, in response to several requests. They measured
about 60 formulations of types I, II and IV, for dynamic range (midrange and
treble), distortion, dropouts and uniformity, and assigned each one an overall
score based on these measurements. The top five in each category were:
Type IV Type II Type I
93 Sony Metal-ES 87 Sony UX-Pro 82 TDK AD
91 TDK MA-XG 87 Sony UX-ES 81 BASF LH Maxima
90 TDK MA 85 TDK SA 80 Maxell UDS-1
89 Maxell MX 85 TDK SA-X 80 Sony HF-S
89 TDK MA-X 84 Denon HD7 80 TDK AD-X
Further down the lists overlap, ie, the better type Is outperform the poorer
type IIs, and similarly for type II vs type IV. For more details, do not
contact me, but read the original in either the August 1988 issue or the 1989
Buying Guide issue.
Joe Matkowski
Over the years I've gone thru the entire gambit of brands. TDK's used to
be the 'tape to have' but thier quality got shady so I moved to Maxell.
Satisfying as those XLIIS's are they don't even compare to a recent
find that I came across. Denon HD8/100's have to be the best sounding
tape I've heard yet. Crystal clear sound with dropouts being
non-existant, this tape will be hard to beat and the extra 10 minutes
comes in real handy for them cd's! Anyone use these?
Joe M.
"Okay boys, put him thru the worx"! --- Bluto
Chris Newbold
>
>find that I came across. Denon HD8/100's have to be the best sounding
>tape I've heard yet. Crystal clear sound with dropouts being
>non-existant, this tape will be hard to beat and the extra 10 minutes
>comes in real handy for them cd's! Anyone use these?
I've been using HD8 for over a year now, with excellent results. Among Denon
HD7, HD8, Maxell XLII-S, Sony UX-ES the HD8 has proved, for me, to be the best
choice. It also competes *very* well with Maxell MX, Sony Metal-SR, and TDK MA.
Just about the worst tape I've used was Triad CD-IV - dropouts and high-end
"warping" up the wazoo.
In summary, HD8, IMHO, is a great deal. Excellent sound, low dropouts, etc.
It is metal-paritcle (i.e. no oxides to flake off in your tape-deck) but is
high-bias, so virtually every machine can record on it, and it's cheap too.
Also, it comes in 75, 90, and 100 min. lengths. Almost ideal for every
situation.
--
>>>> Chris Newbold <<<< * "If you fool around with a thing for very long you *
University of Rochester * will screw it up." *
Disclaimer: "All warranties expire upon payment of invoice."
ctne...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu * uhura.cc.rochester.edu!ctne_ltd@uunet
Stephen M. Dunn
Okay, the email responses to my original question have stopped coming
in, so here they are, all glued together with a couple of posted replies
as well. I have another file in which I've chewed on them and divided
them up according to tape (so that all comments relating to the XL-II,
for example, are together) ... I'll have that finished in a day or two
and will post it then.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From cs4...@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
Before I state my preferences, I should mention that my deck has a bias
fine adjust control and HX Pro, so that I never have problems achieving
the right amount of high frequency response. The main differences, then,
that I find between tapes are in maximum recording level and, as time
progresses, the deterioration in the tapes (which I only know for a couple
of types since I haven't had a decent collection too long).
My personal favourite is Maxell XLII-S. I have had no problems with
dropouts, and the sound quality is excellent. On a deck with Dolby C, I
find the sound to be comparable to CD in all aspects except the noise
floor in quiet passages. I have found that this tape produces an overly
trebly sound unless I adjust the bias up by about 3%. (Yes, for those
who don't have a deck with adjustable bias, such a small change _does_
make a very noticeable difference!)
I have also had very good results with other Maxell chrome tapes (XL-II,
UX-II), with the only difference being that these tapes require lower
recording levels and bias adjustment of about 2%. All three Maxell
tapes seem to age without problems.
I have found BASF Chrome Extra II and Cr-MII tapes to require bias
adjusted slightly below normal (around -1% or -2%), and to suffer
from too many dropouts after a while. Power handling is similar to
the lower-end Maxell chrome tapes.
I am just experimenting with Sony UX-S (chrome), so I cannot comment
on their durability. I find their frequency response similar to the BASF
tapes, while they handle similar record levels to XLII-S.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From fl...@wam.umd.edu Sun Mar 11 02:37:38 1990
I must recommend Maxell XLII-S 90 minute tapes. This is a very durable type II
tape. My recording deck is a new Kenwood with Dolby-C and HX-PRO, and the
sound is fantastic. I use many of the tapes in the car, and sometimes it
gets very hot inside during the summer. Some of the tapes have been left on
the front dash, and even though the writing on the tape has faded considerably,
there is no detectable difference in sound quality.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From cb...@andrew.cmu.edu Sun Mar 11 13:32:37 1990
I use two types of tapes:
1. TDK MA : I like it because I do a lot of recording from CD to tape and this
tape handles the power and range of a CD quite well. Most of the time I
can't tell the difference between the CD and the tape.
2. TDK SA-X : I use this for anything other than recording from CD just because
it's a good bit cheaper and the recording sources (other than CD) don't
reveal any flaws in the tape.
Oh yeah, #1 is type IV and #2 is type II
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From her...@SCTC.COM Sun Mar 11 13:33:07 1990
I use high bias Cr0(2) ( type II ) tapes almost exclusively. I find that,
in addition, to being cheaper than Metal ( type IV ) tapes, they also
sound better in my car and office decks. ( I must admit that Metal tapes
sound better in my home deck, but I attribute this to the fact that my
home deck has a Metal bias setting. )
For many years, I was a die hard TDK fan. Now however, I use Maxell
XLII-S 90's and 100's. My reasons are simple:
1. Sound quality that my ear cannot distinguish from the original
media, and quality that is comparable to TDK.
2. Low noise. ( I do not use noise reduction of any kind. )
3. Longest tape life. I feel that not only are Maxell tapes the best
constructed ( They have a very solid feel. ), they last the
longest. The tape itself does not stretch or loose its recording
charateristics as quickly as TDK, Denon, or Sony tapes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From dma...@uceng.UC.EDU Sun Mar 11 22:46:39 1990
TDK SA90 - typeII
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From t...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu Mon Mar 12 09:24:11 1990
I use TDK HS-X when I can afford it, and TDK SA-X when I can't. They are
both type II tapes; HS-X is really a metal tape especially formulated to
work with type II bias and equalization.
I use the TDK since it seems more linear than Maxell, and it certainly has
lower noise. I record at -20 dB with no noise reduction. (The breathing of
the noise reduction working is more annoying to me than the little bit of
tape hiss.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From lsuc!utai!gargoyle.uchicago.edu!chinet!jtl Mon Mar 12 14:40:07 1990
Maxell XLII -- this has been my first choice for
recording since 1977. TDK's SA used to
be pretty good (around 1979-82), but they
got lousy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From lsuc!utai!rutgers!uokmax.uoknor.edu!zordac!squid!reb Mon Mar 12 16:31:13 1990
Sony UX-Pro 90 tapes are by far the best value for the money in chrome tapes.
I often use them instead of the Sony METAL-ES 90 tapes (which are my second
favorite choice. I use these tapes for masters when making live recordings of
concerts, etc. For regular taping I prefer Maxell XL-II 90 tapes. I dislike
TDK-SA or TDK-SAX.
As far as other audio tapes, for my DAT I prefer Ampex DAR-120 and Sony
DT-120. TDK DAR 120 is okay too. Stay away from the Maxell R-120DM. They seem
to have a higher error rate. I believe that all of these come in 45 60 and 90
min lengths too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From vsi1!to...@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca Mon Mar 12 21:04:26 1990
Favorite brand is Maxell. I've bought over 1000 and *never* had a failure.
Same is not true of TDK. Latelty I've been very pleased with the XL-IIS
and the MX. I just listened to a broadcast I recorded ten years ago
(8-11-80) on MX and it sounds as good as new. Metal has tremendous
retentivity. Call MX my favorite.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From rmo...@convex.com Mon Mar 12 21:10:30 1990
Best results on my Nak Rx-505 were achieved with
TDK MA
TDK MA-XG (metal)
TDK MA-X "
Maxell XLII-S (CrO2)
In order specified. The deck really likes TDK-MA tape; I have to adjust the
bias -1 on the scale (I have no idea to what reference the bias adjust is
calibrated to, but that's teh knob reading) for best high end. The overall
dynamics are lively and very musical without letting hiss creep in in the
soft spots. I do all of my recording with Dolby-C, and I have had no trouble
with dropouts on any of the above tape types. The TDK MA-X and -XG are
better at handling absolute peaks than the MA, but give up some musicality and
are more expensive. The TDK MA-XG is both the quietest and most expensive
tape ofthe four I use; I tend to use the Maxell XLII for vinyl recording,
the TDK-MA and -MA-X for most CD's, and the MA-XG for really dynamic stuff
with soft passages.
I'm curious to know how others have fared with similar tapes; I'm
stepping off the deep end here, but I'll wager rather than a particular
tape type being the deciding factor, I think the synergy between the deck
and the tape is the major criterion between a mediocre recording and a great
one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From oy...@hyper-sun2.Jpl.Nasa.Gov Mon Mar 12 21:50:35 1990
"TDK SA-90", Type II
+ Inexpencive, buys them in packets of 10 when they are on sale and when I'm
abroad. < $2.00 in USA.
+ My "Teac V-500X" tape recorder is adjusted for these type II tapes.
Also my previous tape deck "Radionette RCD 520" was adjusted for them.
+ Have ca. 200 of them. I recorded the first one ca. 10 years ago (on my
Radionette) and have played some of them quite often. They have also been
used in my Sony Walkman and a Philips boom-box. I have *never* wrecked a
TDK tape! I can count on one hand the number of times the tape has run
into the player's mechanics. Even then they have been recovered without
visible damage. The tape capsule is of high quality and is quite quiet.
I don't have the same experience with other tapes but other people I know
frequently throw away tapes. I do not have wife and children and may be
specially careful but .....?
Warning! I do *not* use this tapes in my car. The high temperature changes
and high humidity (Trondheim, Norway) are torture for any tape. If you have
any ambition making a tape collection make special copies for your car on
cheaper tapes.
+ The tape is always ranked high in tests. Not the best but gives good value
for the money. Some of the tests question if it is worth buying the more
expencive TDK SA-X since the differences are marginal. I have some SA-X
tapes for my most precious recordings (just in case :-).
+ My ears isn't the finest in the business, but I think the tapes reproduce
the sound very good, especially the high frequencies. The test show that the
noise level is high but since I use Dolby C it is no problem. I have done
A/B tests between my CD and tape recorder and am not able to hear any
difference on new tapes. I have not tried to check any old tapes against
the CD/LP original yet.
+ To avoid distorsion I am careful not to go over +3 dB recording level.
Someone claims that type II tapes manage higher recording levels but I go
for the recomendation in the handbook of my tape recorder.
+ I have experienced dropouts on some tapes. Especially older one that I make
new recordings on. I therefore seldom rerecord tapes. (The tapes are so
cheap compared with the content). The tape technology has also made
significant advances so it is not the same tape as sold 10 years ago.
+ I have bought these tapes both in Europe, Japan and USA and have not found
any other difference than labeling and wrapping.
I also use various tapes from Maxell (UD-II, XL-II, MA), BASF (Superchrome),
Luxman, Denon.
Music recorded: Classical, Pop, Rock, NewAge.
Equipment in use:
Tape deck: Teac V-500X w/Dolby-B, Dolby-C and dbx
CD-player: Yamaha CD-X3 (don't buy one, unreliable)
Amplifier: Tandberg 3012, 2x100 W
Speakers: Infinity RS 7-B
Chair: Ekornes Stressless Golf :-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From lsuc!utai!mailrus!ames!scubed!ncr-sd!sidd.SanDiego.NCR.COM!stevef Tue Mar 13 17:25:41 1990
I use, almost exclusively, Maxell XLII tapes. These are type II.
My primary use for cassettes is for trading live concerts tapes.
The Maxell is by far the favorite amongst my contacts and, as such,
most of their decks are calibrated for the XLII's. That's my
theory anyway, and the main reason I use the Maxell XLII tapes.
BTW, the latest Audio mag has a very in depth article on just this
topic--tape ratings, that is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From lsuc!utai!rutgers!fluke.com!strong Tue Mar 13 23:21:57 1990
I've had good luck with Maxell XL-II, Sony UX-90S, and especially with
TDK MA. I generally choose by price. I stocked up on TDK MA-110 when the
price went to $2.00. I stocked up on Sony UX-90S when they sold it for
$1.80 with a free alkaline AA cell.
I used to buy a lot of Fuji FR-II, but their quality control went down the
drain about a year ago. Last time I bought the Fuji tape the price was
$1.37.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: fai...@m.cs.uiuc.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From i...@rayssdb.ssd.ray.com Fri Mar 16 13:26:58 1990
Maxell XLII Type II
TDK AR-X Type I
TDK AD-X Type I
Sony UHF Type I
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: ma...@pedsga.UUCP (Joe Matkowski)
Over the years I've gone thru the entire gambit of brands. TDK's used to
be the 'tape to have' but thier quality got shady so I moved to Maxell.
Satisfying as those XLIIS's are they don't even compare to a recent
find that I came across. Denon HD8/100's have to be the best sounding
tape I've heard yet. Crystal clear sound with dropouts being
non-existant, this tape will be hard to beat and the extra 10 minutes
comes in real handy for them cd's! Anyone use these?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Stephen M. Dunn cs4...@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
<std_disclaimer.h> = "\nI'm only an undergraduate!!!\n";
****************************************************************************
"So sorry, I never meant to break your heart ... but you broke mine."
Mike Schwartz
>tape I've heard yet. Crystal clear sound with dropouts being
>non-existant, this tape will be hard to beat and the extra 10 minutes
>comes in real handy for them cd's! Anyone use these?
I have used these. Yes, they sound very nice when they're new, but mine
have developed dropouts (I use tapes in my car only - not the most friendly
environment), so I switched to TDK MA110s. No dropouts and the extra 10
minutes comes in real handy for them cd's! :-)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Schwartz **
Tellabs, Inc. ** "This new learning amazes me!"
Lisle, IL **
------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure whose opinions these are.
Stephen M. Dunn
As promised, here is the summary of responses to my favourite tape
survey. I've taken comments and grouped them according to what tape
they apply to. My apologies to anyone if I've subtly altered the
meaning of what they wrote. For a complete listing of unedited responses,
see the posting I did yesterday.
The tapes are listed in no particular order, although they are grouped
by manufacturer (in no particular order). One comment: I'm surprised
that I only got one response about the Denon HD8. I thought that with
all the hype about it being the "best tape" for CDs, many people would
have tried it and come up with an opinion on it.
Anyway, enough commentary. Here's what people had to say about
various tapes.
-Steve
------------------------------------(cut here)-----------------------------
Maxell XLII-S (type II)
-----------------------
My personal favourite is Maxell XLII-S. I have had no problems with
dropouts, and the sound quality is excellent. On a deck with Dolby C, I find
the sound to be comparable to CD in all aspects except the noise floor in
quiet passages. I have found that this tape produces an overly trebly sound
unless I adjust the bias up by about 3%. (Yes, for those who don't have a
deck with adjustable bias, such a small change _does_ make a very noticeable
difference!) Maxell tapes seem to age without problems.
--
I must recommend Maxell XLII-S 90 minute tapes. This is a very durable type
II tape. My recording deck is a new Kenwood with Dolby-C and HX-PRO, and the
sound is fantastic. I use many of the tapes in the car, and sometimes it gets
very hot inside during the summer. Some of the tapes have been left on the
front dash, and even though the writing on the tape has faded considerably,
there is no detectable difference in sound quality.
--
For many years, I was a die hard TDK fan. Now however, I use Maxell XLII-S
90's and 100's. My reasons are simple:
1. Sound quality that my ear cannot distinguish from the original
media, and quality that is comparable to TDK.
2. Low noise. ( I do not use noise reduction of any kind. )
3. Longest tape life. I feel that not only are Maxell tapes the best
constructed ( They have a very solid feel. ), they last the
longest. The tape itself does not stretch or loose its recording
charateristics as quickly as TDK, Denon, or Sony tapes.
--
Favorite brand is Maxell. I've bought over 1000 and *never* had a failure. Same
is not true of TDK. Latelty I've been very pleased with the XL-IIS ...
--
Best results on my Nak Rx-505 were achieved with
[3 others deleted]
Maxell XLII-S (CrO2)
In order specified.
[...]
I tend to use the Maxell XLII-S for vinyl recording ...
--
Over the years I've gone thru the entire gambit of brands. TDK's used to be the
'tape to have' but thier quality got shady so I moved to Maxell. [...has now
moved to Denon...]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maxell XL-II (type II)
----------------------
I have also had very good results with XL-II, with the only difference
being that these tapes require lower recording levels [than XLII-S] and bias
adjustment of about 2%. Maxell tapes seem to age without problems.
--
Maxell XLII -- this has been my first choice for
recording since 1977.
--
For regular taping I prefer Maxell XL-II 90 tapes.
--
I also use various tapes from Maxell (XL-II) ...
--
I use, almost exclusively, Maxell XLII tapes. These are type II. My primary
use for cassettes is for trading live concerts tapes. The Maxell is by far the
favorite amongst my contacts and, as such, most of their decks are calibrated
for the XLII's. That's my theory anyway, and the main reason I use the Maxell
XLII tapes.
--
I've had good luck with Maxell XL-II [...] I generally choose by price.
--
Maxell XLII Type II
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maxell UX-II (type II)
----------------------
I have also had very good results with UX-II, with the only difference
being that these tapes require lower recording levels [than XLII-S] and bias
adjustment of about 2%. Maxell tapes seem to age without problems.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maxell UD-II (type II)
----------------------
I also use various tapes from Maxell (UD-II)...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maxell MX (type IV)
-------------------
Favorite brand is Maxell. I've bought over 1000 and *never* had a failure.
Same is not true of TDK. Latelty I've been very pleased with and the MX. I
just listened to a broadcast I recorded ten years ago (8-11-80) on MX and it
sounds as good as new. Metal has tremendous retentivity. Call MX my favorite.
--
CU rated the MX tied for fourth among metal tapes with a score of 89.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maxell UDS-1 (type I)
---------------------
CU rated the UDS-1 tied for third among ferric tapes with a score of 80.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BASF Chrome Extra II (type II)
------------------------------
I have found BASF Chrome Extra II tapes to require bias adjusted slightly
below normal (around -1% or -2%), and to suffer from too many dropouts after a
while. Power handling is similar to the lower-end Maxell chrome tapes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BASF Chrome Extra II (type II)
------------------------------
I have found BASF Cr-MII tapes to require bias adjusted slightly below
normal (around -1% or -2%), and to suffer from too many dropouts after a
while. Power handling is similar to the lower-end Maxell chrome tapes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BASF Superchrome (type II)
--------------------------
I also use various tapes from BASF (Superchrome) ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
BASF LH Maxima (type I)
-----------------------
CU rated the LH Maxima second among ferric tapes with a score of 81.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony UX-S (type II)
-------------------
I am just experimenting with Sony UX-S (chrome), so I cannot comment on
their durability. I find that they require bias adjusted slightly below
normal (around -1%), while they handle high record levels well.
--
I've had good luck with Sony UX-90S [...] I generally choose by price.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony UX-Pro (type II)
---------------------
Sony UX-Pro 90 tapes are by far the best value for the money in chrome tapes.
I use these tapes for masters when making live recordings of concerts, etc.
--
CU rated UX-Pro tied for first among chrome tapes with a score of 87.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony UHF (type I)
-----------------
Sony UHF Type I
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony HF-S (type I)
------------------
CU rated the HF-S tied for third among ferric tapes with a score of 80.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony Metal-ES (type IV)
-----------------------
CU rated the Metal-ES first among metal tapes with a score of 93.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sony UX-ES (type II)
--------------------
CU rated the UX-ES tied for first among chrome tapes with a score of 87.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK MA (type IV)
----------------
1. TDK MA : I like it because I do a lot of recording from CD to tape and
this tape handles the power and range of a CD quite well. Most of the
time I can't tell the difference between the CD and the tape.
--
Best results on my Nak Rx-505 were achieved with
TDK MA
The deck really likes TDK-MA tape; I have to adjust the bias -1 on the scale
(I have no idea to what reference the bias adjust is calibrated to, but that's
teh knob reading) for best high end. The overall dynamics are lively and very
musical without letting hiss creep in in the soft spots. I do all of my
recording with Dolby-C, and I have had no trouble with dropouts on any of the
above tape types. I tend to use the TDK-MA for most CD's.
--
I've had good luck especially with TDK MA. I generally choose by price.
--
CU rated the MA third among metal tapes with a score of 90.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK MA-XG (type IV)
-------------------
Best results on my Nak Rx-505 were achieved with
[one deleted]
TDK MA-XG
In order specified. The TDK MA-XG are better at handling absolute peaks
than the MA, but give up some musicality and are more expensive. The TDK MA-
XG is both the quietest and most expensive tape ofthe four I use; I tend to
use the MA-XG for really dynamic stuff with soft passages.
--
CU rated the MA-XG second among metal tapes with a score of 91.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK MA-X (type IV)
------------------
Best results on my Nak Rx-505 were achieved with
[two deleted]
TDK MA-X
In order specified. The TDK MA-X are better at handling absolute peaks
than the MA, but give up some musicality and are more expensive. I tend to
use the MA-X for most CD's.
--
CU rated the MA-X tied for fourth among metal tapes with a score of 89.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK SA-X (type II)
------------------
2. TDK SA-X : I use this for anything other than recording from CD just
because it's a good bit cheaper and the recording sources (other than CD)
don't reveal any flaws in the tape.
--
I use TDK SA-X when I can't afford TDK HS-X
I use the TDK since it seems more linear than Maxell, and it certainly has
lower noise. I record at -20 dB with no noise reduction. (The breathing of the
noise reduction working is more annoying to me than the little bit of tape
hiss.)
--
I dislike TDK-SA-X.
--
--
CU rated the SA-X tied for third among chrome tapes with a score of 85.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK SA (type II)
----------------
TDK SA90 - typeII
--
TDK's SA used to
be pretty good (around 1979-82), but they
got lousy.
--
I dislike TDK-SA.
--
CU rated the SA tied for third among chrome tapes with a score of 85.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK HS-X (type II)
------------------
I use TDK HS-X when I can afford it; HS-X is really a metal tape especially
formulated to work with type II bias and equalization.
I use the TDK since it seems more linear than Maxell, and it certainly has
lower noise. I record at -20 dB with no noise reduction. (The breathing of the
noise reduction working is more annoying to me than the little bit of tape
hiss.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK AR-X (type I)
-----------------
TDK AR-X Type I
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK AD-X (type I)
-----------------
TDK AD-X Type I
--
CU rated the AD-X tied for third among ferric tapes with a score of 80.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TDK AD (type I)
---------------
CU rated the AD first among ferric tapes with a score of 82.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fuji FR-II (type II)
--------------------
I used to buy a lot of Fuji FR-II, but their quality control went down the
drain about a year ago. Last time I bought the Fuji tape the price was
$1.37.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denon HD8 (type II)
-------------------
Denon HD8/100's have to be the best sounding tape I've heard yet. Crystal
clear sound with dropouts being non-existant, this tape will be hard to beat
and the extra 10 minutes comes in real handy for them cd's! Anyone use these?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denon HD7 (type II)
-------------------
CU rated the HD7 fifth among chrome tapes with a score of 84.
Perry Rothermel
>have developed dropouts (I use tapes in my car only - not the most friendly
>environment), so I switched to TDK MA110s. No dropouts and the extra 10
>minutes comes in real handy for them cd's! :-)
What is a "dropout"? How does a cassette tape develope a dropout? I've
heard this term before but only with video tapes. Any information would
be appreciated.
THANKS!
2fjom...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
90s. Both Audio magazine and Consumer Reports rated this the best type II tape.
Sony also had the best metal tape, but I can't remember which one it was. The
tests were realistic and exhausitive. Consumer Reports also included excellent
aging tests. I have used the Sony Type II's on an NAD 6300 (best deck next to
the god-like Nakamichi Dragon) with excellent results. Check the Consumer
Reports five-year index for their review of tapes. It's very interesting and
revelatory in the way it debunks some of the pricey tapes.
Stephen M. Dunn
$What is a "dropout"? How does a cassette tape develope a dropout? I've
$ heard this term before but only with video tapes. Any information would
$ be appreciated.
A dropout is the same on any magnetic medium. It simply refers to
a spot on the tape where the signal is reduced or absent, usually due
to the magnetic particles having been removed. Typically this is a
result of wear and tear on a tape which doesn't use a strong enough
adhesive to attach the magnetic particles to the tape.
--
More half-baked ideas from the oven of:
****************************************************************************
Stephen M. Dunn cs4...@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
<std_disclaimer.h> = "\nI'm only an undergraduate ... for now!\n";
Len Moskowitz
wasn't the one with the highest score. Sony ES scored a 91. I think
a TDK tape scored a 92.
Perry Rothermel
>Regardless of what YOUR favorite tape might be, the BEST tape is Sony UX-Pro
>90s.Both Audio magazine and Consumer Reports rated this the best type II tape.
I read both these articles and they were quite interesting, but... Didn't
Audio magazine rate a Radio Shack tape as the best type II? (believe it
or not).
kyle chu
The orginal Cu, Audio, Stereo Review articles were a couple of years
old. However, I still agree with the ratings. I think that Audio did
there most recent tests on the old version of the Sony Ux-Pros. Given
the usual lead time of two-three months and extra time for editing as
it's a special report, I don't really see how they could have acquired
and tested the new version of the Ux-Pros and still make this issue.
Especially when I get the issue about a month & half to two month
early.
kyle chu
There is only one problem with the results, the Sony ES is an
unchanged formula from several years ago. In addition, I question why
the old ES version beat the new SR, SR Metal, and SR Master versions.
In addition, given the current market prices for the TDK vs. the ES,
why would one pay twice the money in order to get a one point
difference of quality. I can get the ES at prices that many people
regularily pay for II tapes. The TDK is still discounted but with a
list price at $60 how much can one really discount to be competive
with an ES? For example, the well known JR has a price differential
over $15.00 usually. This translates into 15 ES's vs. 10 TDK's. In
addition, given the ES age and testing that it has gotten, I find it
more reliable, and even better considering the old formula. Since it
is an old formula, this also insinuates the idea that the ES will
either be improved or discontinued in the near future??!!
just my opinion
KC
kc...@topaz.rutger.EDU
Joe Matkowski <matkowsk>
>90s. Both Audio magazine and Consumer Reports rated this the best type II tape.
So be it your opinion. BTW how did you arrive at this opnion? If it was just
by reading a couple of mags then it's not much of an opinion. I'd trust my
personal experience more so than a couple of half witted articles. More than
often product reviews are a lot like movie reviews.
>Sony also had the best metal tape, but I can't remember which one it was. The
Since you can't remember which tape then I assume you just read this also.
Again, not much of an opinion.
>...I have used the Sony Type II's on an NAD 6300 (best deck next to
>the god-like Nakamichi Dragon) with excellent results...
In whose opinion? Yours? Some magazine? Personally I've found that the
quality control of Sony's tapes leaves something to be desired. Oh, and
my underwear would sound excellent in the NAD 6300.
>...It's very interesting and
>revelatory in the way it debunks some of the pricey tapes. (Consumer Reports)
Like Sony? More expensive than Maxells (at least around here) and no better.
Joe M.
"If I had a heart the color would be grey" --- Nine Inch Nails
j...@simpact.com
writes:
> Regardless of what YOUR favorite tape might be, the BEST tape is Sony UX-Pro
> 90s. Both Audio magazine and Consumer Reports rated this the best type II tape.
Gosh, it must be nice to be so sure of yourself.
Go back and look at the _Audio_ article again. Fortunately this author
included the results of his various tests, not just a single rating. The
Sony UX-Pro was the overall best... *according to the weighting factors he
used*. There are occasions that demand other weighting factors. For example...
Among my other time sinks, I assemble tapes of dance music for my ballroom and
swing dance groups. Putting together a 90-minute tape takes about four to six
hours. (Don't laugh; try it some time, paying close attention to pacing,
ease of transition from one song to another, etc.) I used to assemble my
master directly onto TDK SA-XG.
Why? Because the shells on these things are as close to precision instruments
as I've seen in a cassette. Instead of two-piece, all-plastic construction,
they are three-piece, with a die-cast metal inner frame. And there are honest
to god metal rollers on either sides of the holes that receive the alignment
posts, where most cassettes just let the tape sort of wander on past.
All of this translates to much better control of tape movement, much better
consistency from one playing to the next, and a correspondingly VERY small
chance that the tape will get munched after I've put all that work into it.
I said "used to", because (a) TDK in their infinite wisdom has stopped making
these things (they still make the metal MA-XG, same shell, but I don't need
metal-level audio quality for this purpose), and (b) I now use an open-reel
deck for this "work", and it goes much faster -- no surprise there.
--- Jamie Hanrahan, Simpact Associates, San Diego CA
-------------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
Internet: j...@simpact.com, | "Don't waste your money on a new pair of
or if that fails, j...@crash.cts.com | speakers; you get more mileage from a
Uucp: ...{crash,decwrl}!simpact!jeh | cheap pair of sneakers!" -- Billy Joel
("It's Still Rock and Roll To Me")
Mike Mahler
As long as we're into opinions here, mine is that the
best tape I've used is made by TDK. Only problem is
I haven't been able to find them any longer and the last
time I've used one was about 10 years ago. They were metal
tapes and had lucite (I think) outer shells and a metal alloy
inner shell with beutifully smooth-as-sex transfer.
They were about $5.99 each then and well worth it for those
priceless recordings where only the best was needed.
Are these still made? Send mail if you know of retailer
selling these!
Michael
Randy Price
a wonderful mixed metaphor -- cows with worms |-> ), I want to comment
on this tape issue from a different point of view.
I worked for several years in a high-end stereo store. We sold as our
primary cassette machine Tandberg and Nakamichi. It was from this
experience that I learned much about tapes, thought much of the detail
is forgotten.
Tandberg without reservation always recommended Maxell tapes, UDXLII
for quite stuff, UDXLI for dynamic stuff, and they had the documentation
to back it up. Realize Tandberg's point of view, however. They were
attempting on cassette to have a low distortion, uncolored, flat
frequencty response medium. (Remember cassette frequency responses are
taken at -20db). Their primary problems were with tape saturation and
such. In this regard they built in about 3db of head room into their
record amps ( and meters ). This made them one of the few cassette
units suitable for serious live recording.
Nakamichi on the othe hand was in the spec race, when the spec race was
looking for the highest frequency possible. They recommend TDK. Guess
for which tapes these machines had been biased.
We adjusted machines for the tape a person might prefer.
We also calibrated tuners, most of which were approaching mono in stereo
separation when they arrived from the manufacturer.
We also checked stylii under a $10,000 microscope for alignment. These
had an approximately 30% failure rate.
The point of this is: (here comes the sacred cow). If you buy
_anything_ from a mail order company and it doesn't perform as you like,
you got what you paid for. High-end service oriented stores are there
to provide a _properly working_ product at a price which allows them to
continue in service. This _Consumer Reports_ mentality that the product
is the same no matter what the source of purchase is baloney. CR even
penalizes manufactuers who insist on being sold by a service oriented dealer.
If you have bought a tuner, tape deck, CD, or whatever from a mail order
firm or your tape deck sounds funny with certain tapes, remember what
you saved. But you weren't in it for the sound any way.
Sorry to be antagonistic, but this CR and mail order mania is stupid,
and the quality of resultant product is evidence.
Randy
________________________________________________________
Randy Price ra...@uutopia.dell.com
The opinions are my own, not my employers, cognito.
"There is no expedient to which man will not resort
to avoid the real labor of thinking."
Thomas Edison
_______________________________________________________
Gregory Elkinbard
>
>The point of this is: (here comes the sacred cow). If you buy
>_anything_ from a mail order company and it doesn't perform as you like,
>you got what you paid for. High-end service oriented stores are there
>to provide a _properly working_ product at a price which allows them to
>continue in service. This _Consumer Reports_ mentality that the product
>is the same no matter what the source of purchase is baloney. CR even
>penalizes manufactuers who insist on being sold by a service oriented dealer.
>
>If you have bought a tuner, tape deck, CD, or whatever from a mail order
>firm or your tape deck sounds funny with certain tapes, remember what
>you saved. But you weren't in it for the sound any way.
>
>Sorry to be antagonistic, but this CR and mail order mania is stupid,
>and the quality of resultant product is evidence.
>
>Randy
>
On my deck the bias is adjustable from the front panel.
And if my tape deck sounds funny than I will bring it in into an authorized
service center and have it adjusted under manufacture's warranty.
I bought mail order because the price difference in mail order vs regular store
was $135 dollars or about 33%. Sorry, I can understand 5-10% difference
but 33% is a bit too much. Yes I got what I paid for a very nice tape deck
which would otherwise be out of my price reach. I bought my tape deck because
I liked the way it sounded over the lower models which I would have to get
if I bought from the high-fi shop. Please remember that some of us have weird
things like bugdets, we need money for things like food and rent, and cannot
afford to pay a 33% mark up so you can keep you summer job.
And the manufacturer is responsible for the quality control on his equipment.
If I buy a Denon than it better be the same no matter whose warehouse floor
its sitting on.
Greg
--
================================================================================
Greg Elkinbard # aka Lord Cromis the DragonSlayer
elki...@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com # also found at elki...@iris.ucdavis.edu
================================================================================
j...@simpact.com
> As long as we're into opinions here, mine is that the
> tapes and had lucite (I think) outer shells and a metal alloy
> inner shell with beutifully smooth-as-sex transfer.
>
> They were about $5.99 each then and well worth it for those
> priceless recordings where only the best was needed.
>
> Are these still made? Send mail if you know of retailer
> selling these!
Sounds like you're describing TDK MA-XG. I don't have much trouble finding
them at places all over town. (But then I haven't checked this week...)
They unfortunately discontinued the SA-XG, a Type II tape using the same
looks-like-it-would-pass-milspecs shell.
--- Jamie Hanrahan, Simpact Associates, San Diego CA
Internet: j...@simpact.com, or if that fails, j...@crash.cts.com
Uucp: ...{crash,scubed,decwrl}!simpact!jeh
Tim Dawson
>. . .
>If you have bought a tuner, tape deck, CD, or whatever from a mail order
>firm or your tape deck sounds funny with certain tapes, remember what
>you saved. But you weren't in it for the sound any way.
Or, since the manufacturer is the Warranty agent, you could just give it to
them to fix FREE and STILL get the perfect unit at the discount price!
Honestly, maybe your store was different, but I have never yet been in a high
end audio store where the techs knew their a*s from a hole in the ground. I
had a speaker once that had a component mechanically fall off the crossover
and the supposed store "Expert" tried to convince me that the part was not
supposed to be there. Never mind that it's omission caused an open circuit to
the tweeter. Only after we patted down the inside of the cabinet and came up
with the part did he believe that it was actually gone. If this is what
paying top-dollar at a hi-fi store gets you (which seems to be the typical case)
then all I can say is why don't you just go in the bathroom and flush your
money down the toilet? You seem to get just about as much satisfaction!
Besides the DEALER does not have a DAMN THING to do with warranty service,
and anyone who tells you otherwise is full of s**t. I you get it mail order,
you STILL get service from the manufacturer! Personally, if anything of
mine goes on the fritz it goes to the Manufacturer if in warranty or I buy
a manual and fix it myself otherwise (if the manuals are available - I find
that any reputable high-end manufaturer is more than willing to send you
service manuals for a nominal price).
Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but I have been doing things this way for
years and have yet to not get satisfaction on any component I have
purchased. No, my ears are not that bad - I routinely do studio work and have
available rather exotic facilities to confirm the health of may hardware.
--
================================================================================
Tim Dawson (...!texsun!Athena!tim) Motorola Computer Systems, Dallas, TX.
"The opinions expressed above do not relect those of my employer - often even I
cannot figure out what I am talking about."
f...@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
(Gregory Elkinbard) writes:
>
> [...]
>
> And the manufacturer is responsible for the quality control on his equipment.
> If I buy a Denon than it better be the same no matter whose warehouse floor
> its sitting on.
>
But you have to watch out! Some companies sell grey market goods that
were never destined for the US market and do not have US warrantees and
may not even have the same specs as the US marketed products.
When I inquired about an amp at the infamous "6th Ave" store over the
phone, I finally got a price on a US warranteed amp. It was about the
same price as anywhere else. Needless to say the advertised price was
much much much more attractive.
Paul Pedersen
[stuff deleted...]
>which would otherwise be out of my price reach. I bought my tape deck because
>I liked the way it sounded over the lower models which I would have to get
>if I bought from the high-fi shop. Please remember that some of us have weird
[more stuff deleted]
>Greg
>
I get the uneasy feeling that you might have gone to the hi-fi shop to *listen*
to your model vs the lower models. Hi-fi shops have budgets too, and their
time costs as well. You pay for that time when you buy from them.
Paul
Randy Price
> ra...@uutopia.dell.com (Randy Price) writes:
> >. . .
> >firm or your tape deck sounds funny with certain tapes, remember what
> >you saved. But you weren't in it for the sound any way.
>
> them to fix FREE and STILL get the perfect unit at the discount price!
>
> Besides the DEALER does not have a DAMN THING to do with warranty service,
> and anyone who tells you otherwise is full of s**t. I you get it mail order,
> you STILL get service from the manufacturer! Personally, if anything of
> mine goes on the fritz it goes to the Manufacturer if in warranty or I buy
> available rather exotic facilities to confirm the health of may hardware.
> --
>
A couple of things.
I believe in ears being the final arbiter of high fi equipment. This is
so you will understand my position.
Many hi-end store are inapt at identifying any part of their anatomy -
this is true.
However, manufacturers are generally not warranting specifciations.
They only warrant it will function. Much of the problem with
omptimization/installation has to do with the resultant shipping. Also
never assume that a warranty repair station has the proper equipment to
bring things to spec. We had the only FM signal generator in the area.
We calibrated FM station transmitter with it. No repair shop or
manufacturer had anything close to it. Granted you may not hear the
difference between 30db separation and 50db separation in a tuner if you
had never hear one correctly setup, but you are paying for this difference.
Using the wrong tape in tape recorder that errs on the side of
brightness may be attractive, but it is not accurate. The manufacturer
cannot guarantee good performance on you site, and chances are you do
not have the specialized equipment to make it perform accurately. You
may make it sound good, but does it sound the best it can. Again you
are paying for the specifications you may not be getting.
I may be full of lots of things, but anyone who believes the
manufacturer assumes all responsibility for warranty repairs, I have
some ocean front property in Kansas I would like to talk to you about.
Whether it is a car, a computer, a refrigerator, or audio gear, the
manufacturer makes "an allowance" for warranty repairs. The bulk of
dealers take this much time or less to repair something. The good
dealer will fix the unit and must absorb the cost themselves.
I am only saying that buying mail order assures the continued success of
mass marketers who must has a new model each year at least, and causes
innovators and quality manufacturers to go under or keep raising prices.
To expoect mid-fi from mail order, okay, but high-fi (high accuracy)
equipment by mail order is like doing surgery over the phone.
Randy
=======================================================================
=========
> Tim Dawson (...!texsun!Athena!tim) Motorola Computer Systems, Dallas, TX.
> "The opinions expressed above do not relect those of my employer -
often even I
> cannot figure out what I am talking about."
________________________________________________________
Gregory Elkinbard
>
>But you have to watch out! Some companies sell grey market goods that
>were never destined for the US market and do not have US warrantees and
>may not even have the same specs as the US marketed products.
>
>When I inquired about an amp at the infamous "6th Ave" store over the
>phone, I finally got a price on a US warranteed amp. It was about the
>same price as anywhere else. Needless to say the advertised price was
>much much much more attractive.
I asked the salesman if they were authorized dealer for Denon, and if the
unit I was getting had a complete US warranty. He said yes. But just to
make sure I called Denon after and confirmed with them. Most manufactures
have toll free numbers you can call to find out if the dealer is authorized
to sell their stuff. I used Sound city that sells only USA spec equipment.