New Nakimichi tape decks vs. old Nakimichi tape decks
Bob Easton
|
|In article <1991May22....@cbnewsm.att.com>, ri...@cbnewsm.att.com
|(richard.a.miani) says:
|>
|>Does anyone have any experiences/comments etc. re: the new line of Nakimichi
|>tape decks ( I think they call them Cassette1 and Cassette2 ) as compared
|>to the CR-nA (n=1,2,3,4..7) line ? I guess I should restrict my question to
|>the 3-head models. How old is this "new" line ? and is the CR line being
|>MD'd ? ( Manufacturer Discontinued - a term used here at AT&T to describe most
|>of the computers we've built :-) )
|>
|The new Cassettedeck2 (cheapest of the two) is going to replace the old CR1
|and CR2-models. It has more or less the same features (or lack of them...),
|although it is missing some of the typical Nakamichi properties:
|you can't select rec/play-eq independent from bias anymore and I don't think
|it has variable bias either. What remains are the MANUAL tapeselect switches
|(that are needless without manual-eq). (201) 386-7868
|Cassettedeck1 replaces the CR3, but, again, I don't find it a real Nak.
|The models that surely remain are: Dragon, CR7, CR5, the autoreverse-models
|and (possibly) the beautiful CR4.
|
|Werner, KUL-Belgium
|Owner of one of the last Japanese-built CR2's
|----------
CassetteDeck2 has variable bias (bias trim, anyway). I find the manual
tape select buttons useful to do a bit of playback tweeking, esp on
cassettes that I recorded long ago on another machine. Playing type II
(TDK-SA) back with it set to type I produces a useful treble boost for
listening at low volume. (I guess its a non-permanent alternative to
Hx-Pro, which the CasDeck2 (can't call it CD2, can we!) doesn't have).
It may be the cheap brother of the "real" Naks, but for us what can't
afford/justify the bigger ones, its better than a SonTecYamaPioKenWa -
isn't it!)
Bob
WATERS,CLYDE GORDON
much deleted...
>Hx-Pro, which the CasDeck2 (can't call it CD2, can we!) doesn't have).
>It may be the cheap brother of the "real" Naks, but for us what can't
>afford/justify the bigger ones, its better than a SonTecYamaPioKenWa -
>isn't it!)
>
>Bob
I have to disagree. I used to work in a shop which sold the Sony ES line
of components. The deck out at that time was the TCK-700 ES (I think I
got the number right) Anyway, it was the deck with the center-mounted
transport, with all the logic for controls on one side, a shield, the
transport, another shield, and then the analog section (i-o) This
deck never failed to amaze anyone who heard it! I had a running challenge
out for anyone to bring in their pet deck and compare. We had people bring
in Tandburgs, Naks,(including Dragons) TEAC (old good stuff) etc.
The sony never lost a test. It recorded music closer to the original
source in fidelity than anything we compared it to. In fact, I used to
fool people- I would trim back the bias on the Sony just a hair(make
it just a smidgen bright) and do synchronized playback with the CD
source which we recorded from. I then had people ,with their eyes
shut, guess the source as I switched back and forth.(randomly)
9 out of 10 would guess wrong! They assumed that the CD would of course
have "better" (usually read "more") highs. They would tell me the tape
was the CD! Kinda says something about W/F, noise, etc doesn't it?
Anyway, to summarize: don't sell Sony short on decks. They have built
some real stormers.
My $.02 for now.
Gordon.
--
WATERS,CLYDE GORDON-Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta Ga 30332
******<LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS! - Laurie Anderson-Home of the Brave>*******
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0869a
Internet: gt0...@prism.gatech.edu
Tony Berke
[...lots of things deleted]
Anyway, to summarize: don't sell Sony short on decks. They have built
some real stormers.
My $.02 for now.
Gordon.
--
WATERS,CLYDE GORDON-Georgia Institute of Technology Atlanta Ga 30332
******<LANGUAGE IS A VIRUS! - Laurie Anderson-Home of the Brave>*******
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0869a
Internet: gt0...@prism.gatech.edu
I have to agree. I auditioned cassette decks pretty extensively about
six months ago, and wound up buying a Sony TCK850ES. I've been making
live recordings on DAT, and wanted an affordable second cassette deck
to go with my Nak LX-5 for making reference copies and small
duplication runs for my clients. This piece so completely outperforms
anything that Nak sells for any reasonable amount of cash (I paid
about $450 for the Sony) that I can't imagine ever buying a Nakamichi
deck again -- in fact I'm selling the LX-5 to a friend to free up
more cash to buy a second 850ES. If you told me a year or two ago
that I'd be trading a Nak in for anything other than a better Nak, I'd
have laughed at you.
Interestingly, the main problem that I have with the Sony is that it
is so much better than the decks that my favorite real-time
duplication house uses (200 Aiwas in one room!), that I'm constantly
providing them with DAT masters that are to 'hot' to dupe! And this
isn't even Sony's top deck! I make a few test copies to see how a mix
sounds on cassette before sending it out. After the first time the
duplication folks complained that I'd given them a master that was
'unreproducable', I stopped using type IV tape and switched to UDXLII,
which is pretty close to what they use for duplication stock. No
luck. They still complained that "there was no way you could ever fit
that material on analog tape with adequate results", and proceeded to
apply some compression to it. I'm thinking of changing dupe houses,
to a guy in Vermont that has 50 Nakamichi MR1's. Things will get much
less convenient, but at least we'll be in the same league for sound
quality.
Tony Berke
P.S. -- I was pretty unimpressed with the next model down, (the 650ES,
I think). It spent a while in my system, but sounded pretty thin and
had some wierd noise problems. The next model(s) up from the 850 seem
like they might by Dragon-killers on a budget, but I can't say I've
A/B'd them.
Philip King
>tape select buttons useful to do a bit of playback tweeking, esp on
>cassettes that I recorded long ago on another machine. Playing type II
>(TDK-SA) back with it set to type I produces a useful treble boost for
>listening at low volume. (I guess its a non-permanent alternative to
>Hx-Pro, which the CasDeck2 (can't call it CD2, can we!) doesn't have).
>It may be the cheap brother of the "real" Naks, but for us what can't
>afford/justify the bigger ones, its better than a SonTecYamaPioKenWa -
>isn't it!)
>
>Bob
Now Bob, let's try not to engage in that legendary Nak-o-phile
snobbishness here. If you'd like a list of Nak stuff that is highly
mediochre (IMHO), that they've made in the past or currently, I'd
be glad to oblige. I've had lots and lots of access to stereo equip.
over the last 7 yrs. or so I've been selling it, and I'd be glad to
compare the sound of my Sony TC-K700ESII to a comparably priced Nak.
Philip
p...@wet.uucp
{cca.ucsf.edu,hoptoad,claris}!wet!pk
Philip King
>
>much deleted...
>>Hx-Pro, which the CasDeck2 (can't call it CD2, can we!) doesn't have).
>>It may be the cheap brother of the "real" Naks, but for us what can't
>>afford/justify the bigger ones, its better than a SonTecYamaPioKenWa -
>of components. The deck out at that time was the TCK-700 ES (I think I
>deck never failed to amaze anyone who heard it! I had a running challenge
>out for anyone to bring in their pet deck and compare. We had people bring
>in Tandburgs, Naks,(including Dragons) TEAC (old good stuff) etc.
>The sony never lost a test. It recorded music closer to the original
>source in fidelity than anything we compared it to. In fact, I used to
>Anyway, to summarize: don't sell Sony short on decks. They have built
>some real stormers.
>My $.02 for now.
>Gordon.
(I think the time stamp will show that?) Anyway, I guess it looks like
we have a little solidarity here? Tee hee, this is funny...
(BTW, the TC-K700ES was the predecessor to mine- almost identical,
except for supposedly some bias circuit changes. Then came the 730ES,
which was largely similiar, and the new (850/950?) models, which have
a electronic cam-operated transport...which I lust after. One minor
annoyance of the 700 series was the loud solenoid-operated transport.)
Philip
p...@wet.uucp
{cca.ucsf.edu,hoptoad,claris}!wet!pk
William D. Bushnell
>
>P.S. -- I was pretty unimpressed with the next model down, (the 650ES,
>I think). It spent a while in my system, but sounded pretty thin and
>had some wierd noise problems. The next model(s) up from the 850 seem
>like they might by Dragon-killers on a budget, but I can't say I've
>A/B'd them.
I'll put my $0.02 worth: I bought the Sony TC-K950ES and have been
very pleased with it. The only complaint I had was that when the
machine was brand new, it would occasionally eat tapes, especially if
I shifted functions quickly. Lately, I haven't had this problem, though.
Maybe the transport needed to be "broken in".
I tried both the 850ES and 950ES. I decided on the 950ES because it
seemed more solidly built and I wanted a deck that would last a good
10 years of regular use, at least. The 950ES has a better power
supply, better shielding between the digital and analog sections, and
higher-quality pots and switches. The thing weighs over 25 lbs, if
that means anything. One thing you can't do with the 950ES that you
can do with the 850ES is switch from source to tape using the remote
control.
I suspect the Nakamichi decks with the adjustable playback azimuth would
be nice if I had alot of pre-recorded tapes made on "out-of-azimuth"
decks.
--
Bill Bushnell bushnell@aml_1.rdd.lmsc.lockheed.com
bush...@iscnvx.is.lmsc.lockheed.com
bush...@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com
Dave Platt
>I'll put my $0.02 worth: I bought the Sony TC-K950ES and have been
>very pleased with it.
I'm in the market for a new cassette deck, and I took a look at one of
the ES decks... I don't remember which one, at the moment.
It has one... I guess "human-interface misfeature"... that makes me
quite reluctant to purchase it. Sony's engineers apparently decided
that they know more about how I want to use the "Record mute" function
than I do. According to the manual:
- If I tap the "Mute" button, the deck mutes the input signal for four
seconds, and then drops into "Pause" mode.
- If I press and hold the "Mute" button, the deck mutes for as long as
I hold the button down (or four seconds, whichever is longer), and drops
into "Pause" when I release the "Mute" button or after four seconds.
What if I want to insert a muting of less then four seconds? What if I
want to use the muting function at the _beginning_ of a selection... to
suppress pops and ticks from an LP's leadin groove, or suppress crowd
noise from a live recording... and then un-mute just as the music
starts? What if I want to insert muting for just a moment, between
songs, and want the take to keep running when I take my finger off the
button?
As I read the manual, there's no way to do this! The only equivalent is
to actually hit the "Record" button at the appropriate moment, and hope
that the heads engage and the tape is up to speed at exactly the right
moment. The deck I'm replacing (a Harmon-Kardon 301, ten years old) has
an independent "Mute" function that does not interact with the transport
logic. The Nak CassetteDeck1 has a similarly-independent mute function
(the "Record" pushbutton acts as a mute when held down).
I could probably live with the Sony design myself, as I tend to so
straight transcriptions of fairly long selections. My wife, however,
makes a lot of tapes from multiple sources, and hates having applause or
crowd noise at either end of a selection. The Sony muting "feature"
would drive her crazy.
>>SNARL<<. I loathe hardware designs that get "friendly" in an
inflexible way, or implement lots of bells and whistles at the expense
of solid engineering.
I had a similar reaction to the middle-of-the-line Sony ES CD players,
as of a couple of years ago. Sony seemed to have implemented lots of
flashy display capabilities, Favorite Track Selection for hundreds of
disks, etc., and my impression was that the money spend on these
features might have better been spent on the audio electronics. After
auditioning the Sony ES machines and several other lines, I purchased a
CAL Icon... its sound was at least a match for ES machines costing
several hundred dollars more. The two models at the top of the ES line
had excellent sonics, and a clean user interface... but they were
substantially more expensive than the Icon.
At this point, I'm leaning towards the Nak CassetteDeck1. It's true
that it's feature-poor compared with the more complex machines in the
Nak line and with the Sony ES and other brands... but it looks as if
it's the best match for my priorities (solid long-life engineering, good
sound, and a clean user interface). Two local dealers recommended this
model over the more complex Nak decks costing twice as much... "equally
good sound, and less to go out of adjustment."
I'll do some more auditioning this week...
--
Dave Platt VOICE: (415) 813-8917
Domain: dpl...@ntg.com UUCP: ...apple!ntg!dplatt
USNAIL: New Technologies Group Inc. 2468 Embarcardero Way, Palo Alto CA 94303
William Kung
at a local SONY dealer, he told me that if I was really serious, I wouldn't be
looking at SONY ES but NAKAMICHI. Isn't the dealer supposed to be right? Fine,
I'm snobby. I've owned NAKAMICHI decks before, and I'll own NAKAMICHI decks
again. Maybe it's because I know there is a level of consistency in their decks
that other manufacturers may not have. Not to say that the ES line is bad.
The stuff is built for performance ONLY (cosmetics are usually nice, too). But
a new deck that eats tapes? I don't think transport break-in is the solution.
And I wouldn't expect a cassette deck to last ten years if it's to be used on a
fairly regular basis. Head and capstan wear and even transport wear (ex. motor
bearings) are bound to occur. There really isn't much consumer mechanics out
there that will last that long. By the way, I own a NAKAMICHI 582 from quite
a way back, and it works like a charm! I'll put it up against a SONY ES any
day!
Bob Easton
[...lots of things deleted]
Tony Berke
----------
Bob Easton
|(I think the time stamp will show that?) Anyway, I guess it looks like
|we have a little solidarity here? Tee hee, this is funny...
|
|
|
|
| Philip
| p...@wet.uucp
| {cca.ucsf.edu,hoptoad,claris}!wet!pk
Whoops! Hope I didn't hit a nerve there! I've nothing seriously against
any particular manufacturers products. They all produce good stuff and
bad stuff, though they do seem to vary in quality from one unit to the
next, if the various magazine reports are to be believed.
What annoys me is that I have a perfectly good, albeit 12
years old, JVC cassette deck with a worn take-up reel drive mechanism.
Because I can't get a replacement for that, I've effectively had to junk
the JVC. Nakamichi promise to maintain their products in the future -
to me that sort of commitment is a big differentiator between products
which, to be honest, aren't really, performance-wise, that much different
from each other. I don't regard cassette decks, CD players, cameras, etc
as disposable items, so I try to buy from manufacturers that have
a longer-term commitment to their existing products. On balance, I haven't
been disappointed with that approach.
You may say that "product-commitment" is so much marketing hype, and I
guess in that case, I've bought into that as other folks buy into the
"must have the latest technology" dream. Apologies then for any implied
put-down of other folks's choice of manufacturer! (PS, anyone want to
buy my Sony Betamax VCR?)
Bob
Robert Gutierrez
> available for a while at a discount at your local retailer. Their new
> "top-of-the-line" deck is the 870ES at $600, very similar to last year's
> 850ES. Apparently, Sony doesn't want their cassette decks to compete with
> their DAT decks.
Too bad. The Japanese version (ES-555-MKII?) is still around, and I assume
is the grey market version here (my friend bought his in Akihabra (Tokyo),
Japan). I really think this deck has a great price/performance ratio,
as compared to new Nakamichi's. Problem is that everything else I played
my tapes on (ie: car) was crap, and the source was either CD's or off air
PCM recorded tapes. Not much worth having the deck after all...
> I don't have alot of prerecorded tapes, so I wouldn't often use the fancy
> play azimuth adjustment, a feature that probably adds $100+ to the list price.
> If I had an assortment of prerecorded tapes of dubious origin, the
> Cassette Deck 1 would be at the top of my list BECAUSE of the play azimuth
> adjustability.
Besides, there are really a lot of people who buy the ES series just because
it is the ES series, and probably would not know how to use an azmuth
control properly. Yes, I did have a Nak 582 about 10 years ago (wow, that
long ago!)...
> About 10 years ago I used a 582 to make some live recordings, and I was
> impressed with its performance and consistency. The 582 is one of the best
> decks Nakamichi ever made (along with the Dragon), but it was discontinued
> years ago.
No, no, no... the best Nak was the 682-ZX! (not to be confused with the
682 and the 680). Auto-azmuth and auto-bias! Also the first Dolby-C
deck, and absolutely drop-dead accurate music search and cue! This was *the*
deck for radio stations, as it cued music *perfectly* and a faster start than
slip-starting a record on an old C-Tec/Sparta turntable. Even the Dragon
didn't do that! The only deck(s) to come close were DAT's, of course...
Mine was eventually stolen. Been looking for one since...
robert.
Craig Gruneberg
>bush...@sgi422.msd.lmsc.lockheed.com (William D. Bushnell) writes:
>> BTW, I heard that Sony has recently discontinued the 950ES, so it may be
>> available for a while at a discount at your local retailer. Their new
>> "top-of-the-line" deck is the 870ES at $600, very similar to last year's
>> 850ES. Apparently, Sony doesn't want their cassette decks to compete with
>> their DAT decks.
>
>Too bad. The Japanese version (ES-555-MKII?) is still around, and I assume
>is the grey market version here (my friend bought his in Akihabra (Tokyo),
>Japan). I really think this deck has a great price/performance ratio,
>as compared to new Nakamichi's. Problem is that everything else I played
>my tapes on (ie: car) was crap, and the source was either CD's or off air
>PCM recorded tapes. Not much worth having the deck after all...
>
>> I don't have alot of prerecorded tapes, so I wouldn't often use the fancy
>> play azimuth adjustment, a feature that probably adds $100+ to the list price.
>> If I had an assortment of prerecorded tapes of dubious origin, the
>> Cassette Deck 1 would be at the top of my list BECAUSE of the play azimuth
>> adjustability.
>
>Besides, there are really a lot of people who buy the ES series just because
>it is the ES series, and probably would not know how to use an azmuth
>control properly. Yes, I did have a Nak 582 about 10 years ago (wow, that
>long ago!)...
Interesting. I have a 581 which I have wrote to Nakamichi about twice
with no response. It has a few minor problems and I was interested in
getting it serviced by the factory but they are causing me to lose
my "die-hard Nakamichi bias" very fast with their outright ignorance
of the customer. I managed to get through on their 800 line and
was informed that the gentleman who would handle my questions was on
vacation! Geesh, I mailed the first letter back in March! Wish my vacation
could be so long! Anyway, she said he would call me the next day when
he returned and I never received any calls.
I love the 581 but I am getting sick of Nakamichi's customer mis-treatment
policy!! I wanted their opinion on whether or not to invest the money
to get the unit functioning properly.
--
Craig Gruneberg***[c...@cs.psu.edu]***PennState University
David Avraamides
# Interesting. I have a 581 which I have wrote to Nakamichi about twice
# with no response. It has a few minor problems and I was interested in
# getting it serviced by the factory but they are causing me to lose
# my "die-hard Nakamichi bias" very fast with their outright ignorance
# of the customer. I managed to get through on their 800 line and
# was informed that the gentleman who would handle my questions was on
# vacation! Geesh, I mailed the first letter back in March! Wish my vacation
# could be so long! Anyway, she said he would call me the next day when
# he returned and I never received any calls.
#
# I love the 581 but I am getting sick of Nakamichi's customer mis-treatment
# policy!! I wanted their opinion on whether or not to invest the money
# to get the unit functioning properly.
#
Hmmm..., I was thinking of buying some Nak equipment and I wasn't sure
whether I should get it mail-order or not. The reason to buy it from
a dealer (for me) is for his/her help/info/service and that I have an
authorized Nak dealer behind the component. If I mail-order it, I don't
think I'll have as much luck with service as the place is not an
authorized dealer. My question is should I pay the extra "peace-of-mind"
money when the above posting seems to put the integrity of the company
to question? Hell, should I even buy Nak? I know there is a "Nak" premium
that goes with their stuff, but I always thought there was a dependable
company that stood behind their product to warrant this cost. Now I'm
not so sure (I've seen a number of postings like the one above).
I sure wish someone who worked for Nakamichi would read this newsgroup!!
--
Dave Avraamides
avraa...@crd.ge.com
All opinions are just that - opinions!
Alice Lei
>Hmmm..., I was thinking of buying some Nak equipment and I wasn't sure
>whether I should get it mail-order or not. The reason to buy it from
>a dealer (for me) is for his/her help/info/service and that I have an
>authorized Nak dealer behind the component. If I mail-order it, I don't
>think I'll have as much luck with service as the place is not an
>authorized dealer. My question is should I pay the extra "peace-of-mind"
>money when the above posting seems to put the integrity of the company
you should definitely by a nak from a dealer. if you do buy one, although
if i had to choose all over again, i wouldnt by one their consumer models
but one of their professional ones because ive heard those last much
longer. (if i even bought a nak again)
>to question? Hell, should I even buy Nak? I know there is a "Nak" premium
>that goes with their stuff, but I always thought there was a dependable
>company that stood behind their product to warrant this cost. Now I'm
>not so sure (I've seen a number of postings like the one above).
this company has the worst dependability factor ive ever seen. i have
known a lot of people whove bitched and moaned about their machines.
although ive also known a lot of people who swear by the name for
quality. i think its luck of the draw if you get a good one or a bad one.
>I sure wish someone who worked for Nakamichi would read this newsgroup!!
>
i do too!
alice