Dolby HX Pro -- Worth it? (+ Cassette Deck Advice?)
Nicholas Velharticky
worth the $60 difference between two similar decks.
I am looking at two single cassette decks by Denon.
Denon's DRM-400 is $270 with no HX, and their new DRM-510 is $330 with HX.
How much better is the frequency response when recording with HX Pro?
And does it make all tapes sound better, or mainly normal bias tapes?
I hear that it is ok, but I am just wondering whether it is worth an
extra $60.
Any audiophiles have recommendations on a better cassette deck for
~$300 Canadian (~$240 U.S.)?
Here are some specs for comparison:
DRM-400 ($270)
S/N: 73 dB or better with Dolby C @ 3% THD, by CCIR/ARM
Freq: 25-18,000 hz +/- 3 dB (Metal)
Wow/Fl: .055% wrms, +/- .14% wpeak
DRM-510 ($330)
S/N: 74 dB or better with Dolby C @ 3% THD, by CCIR/ARM
Freq: 25-18,000 hz +/- 3 dB (Metal)
Wow/Fl: .055% wrms, +/- .14% wpeak
Any help, suggestions, or info would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
--
Nick Velharticky
vel...@epas.utoronto.ca
Jonas Palm
vel...@epas.utoronto.ca (Nicholas Velharticky) wrote:
>
> I need a mixdown deck, and I am wondering whether Dolby HX Pro is
> worth the $60 difference between two similar decks.
>
> I am looking at two single cassette decks by Denon.
> Denon's DRM-400 is $270 with no HX, and their new DRM-510 is $330 with HX.
>
> How much better is the frequency response when recording with HX Pro?
> And does it make all tapes sound better, or mainly normal bias tapes?
>
> I hear that it is ok, but I am just wondering whether it is worth an
> extra $60.
HX-Pro helps the high level high frequency response of
Type 1 tape - a lot
Type 2 tape - less
Type 4 tape - even less
So if you are using type 4 (TDK MA for instance) HX-Pro will not help
you much. For your application I'd buy the cheaper deck, have it calibrated
for TDK MA and let the slightly more expensive tape be payed for with
the saved $60. This will give you better results than using a Type 1 tape
with HX-Pro. (As the transport appear to be the same.)
> Any audiophiles have recommendations on a better cassette deck for
> ~$300 Canadian (~$240 U.S.)?
>
The Aiwa F-810 is a proven contender. Sony and Pioneer may have decent
offerings in your price range (3 heads, dual capstans, tape calibration
facilities), but that is hard to say from where I am typing.
Jonas Palm
Kong Kritayakirana
FYI, I bought my Denon DRM-710 for $330 delivered to my door. It is a dual
capstan 3-head deck. Similar performance to the DRS-810 except slidetray
loading and cassette "stabilizer."
Kong
j...@cmkrnl.com
Jonas...@orgk3.lu.se (Jonas Palm) writes:
> HX-Pro helps the high level high frequency response of
> Type 1 tape - a lot
> Type 2 tape - less
> Type 4 tape - even less
Where are you getting this ???
HX Pro is not (fundamentally) a frequency-response improver. It is designed
to extend the headroom -- ie to increase the maximum levels which may be
recorded on the tape without overloading it. (The designation "HX" stands for
"Headroom eXtension"...)
It does this by backing off on the bias signal when the signal being recorded
has a high high-frequency content (which serve as "their own bias").
This allows you to use higher recording levels. This means lower noise on
playback for a given playback level. Hence HX-Pro is primarily a system to
extend dynamic range and improve S/N.
This does nothing to extend the high-frequency response (ie the -3 dB points
from -20 dB, which is where cassette decks are usually spec'd). To be sure, it
does allow a given frequency response to be achieved at higher record levels
than otherwise.
--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
Internet: j...@cmkrnl.com, or hanr...@eisner.decus.org Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh
Jonas Palm
Actually, I'm getting this from the horses mouth.
But I'm not sure if there is a significant disagreement to start with.
Read the quote you made yourself:
'HX-Pro helps the high level high frequency response....'
^^^^^^^^^^
I have also checked it on my own, measuring with and without HX-Pro.
Dolby literature confirms that the primary goal of HX-Pro is to extend
the high-level high-frequency response.
There _are_ other benefits as well.
You do not have to trust me, you can also check the sources:
K. Gundry, 'Headroom Extension for Slow-Speed Magnetic Recording of Audio',
presented at the 64th Convention of the Audio Engineering Society, J. Audio
Eng. Soc. (Abstracts), vol. 27, p. 1026 (1979 Dec.), preprint 1534.
or, easier to get at;
J. S. Jensen, 'Recording with Feedback-Controlled Effective Bias', J. Audio
Eng. Soc., Vol 31, No. 10, 1983 October
Jonas Palm
j...@cmkrnl.com
> But I'm not sure if there is a significant disagreement to start with.
I think you're right about this.
> Dolby literature confirms that the primary goal of HX-Pro is to extend
> the high-level high-frequency response.
> There _are_ other benefits as well.
Then why is its name taken from the term "Headroom eXtension"? (Maybe
because the marketeers liked it that way.)
> You do not have to trust me, you can also check the sources:
Thanks, will do that. (No distrust intended!)
On my decks I can indeed measure improved HF response at high levels. It
doesn't do anything for the -20dB curve because -20dB is below the level where
HX starts to take effect. Since the standard for cassette decks is to quote
response at the -20dB point, HX-Pro is not going to improve those numbers. It
will, though, extend the bandwidth at higher levels.
EILIF LIEN
>From: vel...@epas.utoronto.ca (Nicholas Velharticky)
>Subject: Dolby HX Pro -- Worth it? (+ Cassette Deck Advice?)
>Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1993 03:01:52 GMT
The difference is not only HX-PRO. Go for the DRM-510, it is a great
deck for the price (I know, as my aunt has one :)
The HX PRO helps all tape types (so says the manual, and so is my
experience).
Lon Stowell
>
>On my decks I can indeed measure improved HF response at high levels. It
>doesn't do anything for the -20dB curve because -20dB is below the level where
>HX starts to take effect. Since the standard for cassette decks is to quote
>response at the -20dB point, HX-Pro is not going to improve those numbers. It
>will, though, extend the bandwidth at higher levels.
>
frequency response at 0 dB record level now that HX Pro is
pretty common.
Allegedly the -20 dB level is "representative of music"....but
a cynic would point out that it is the highest level at which the
[non-HX Pro or Nakamichi] deck's frequency response is still
reasonably flat--rather than rolled off like a cheap AM radio.
EILIF LIEN
>vel...@epas.utoronto.ca (Nicholas Velharticky) wrote:
>>
>> I need a mixdown deck, and I am wondering whether Dolby HX Pro is
>> worth the $60 difference between two similar decks.
>So if you are using type 4 (TDK MA for instance) HX-Pro will not help
>you much. For your application I'd buy the cheaper deck, have it calibrated
>for TDK MA and let the slightly more expensive tape be payed for with
>the saved $60. This will give you better results than using a Type 1 tape
>with HX-Pro. (As the transport appear to be the same.)
The HX PRO will not help you most if you are using metal tapes, ok. But
in the 510 you ARE getting a better transport (I'm 95 % sure) even though
the specs seem similar. You are getting better heads and better electronics
and better everything. So therefore, go for the 510 and save the money on
the tapes. Fine tune the bias and you will get better sound from the 510 and
chrome tapes than from the cheap 400.
Eilif, who has had a DRS-610 with HX-PRO for a year and is happy :) that
the sound is similar to his CD player and more than good enough
(by the way, I think tape decks from Denon is far better than any Pioneer or
Aiwa or any other mid price products (this is something Denon really knows
how to do))
EILIF LIEN
>>I need a mixdown deck, and I am wondering whether Dolby HX Pro is
>>worth the $60 difference between two similar decks.
>>
>>I am looking at two single cassette decks by Denon.
>>Denon's DRM-400 is $270 with no HX, and their new DRM-510 is $330 with HX.
The 400 and 510 is two different machines: the 510 has sendust ferrit heads,
the 400 has hard permalloy, the 510 has HX PRO, the 510 has bias adjust (a
necessity to make decent recordings), the 400 has slightly more wow/flutter
(not much, but indicates a cheaper transport), and finally the 510 weights
200 gr more (wow!).
Need I say more? You get the HX PRO for free....
The DRM-510 has got "best buy" in Hi-Fi Choice (usually Hi-Fi Choice doesn't
seem to like Japanese products).