White Van speakers hit Dallas ---
Britt Brooks
Well, I never thought it would happen to me. Standing in the parking
lot at Supercuts (Plano Rd and Beltline in Richardson, TX beware). A
couple of kids (maybe college aged) pull up with a Red Minivan full of
boxes.
The driver says "Hi, do you need a really good set of speakers?"
My response "No, not really, but what do you got?"
The passanger "We got these speakers almost free. They are very
good (hands me a spec sheet with nothing very impressive on it)."
My response "No, these do not look that good. How much are you selling
them for?"
Silence. I guess I should have seemed more enthused. They talk to eachother
for a minute or so and say "Thanks for your time." and drive off.
I never would have believed that anyone would actually try to sell that
way. But, I guess it takes all kinds. Probably looking for some easy
Christmas sales. All readers in Dallas-Fort Worth, beware! The White
van has been painted red!
Thought you all would like to know.
Britt Brooks
j...@cmkrnl.com
(Britt Brooks) writes:
> [...]
> All readers in Dallas-Fort Worth, beware! The White
> van has been painted red!
I've been offered this "deal" twice now, in the San Diego area. And a few
months ago one of the White Van folks had the bad judgement to try to sell to
a guy who happened to be a local tv news reporter...
Judging by the number of people who have encountered these folks, they must be
really ubiquitous.
--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
Internet: j...@cmkrnl.com (JH645) Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh CIS: 74140,2055
Andrew Rogers
>... All readers in Dallas-Fort Worth, beware! The White
>van has been painted red!
If you paint the van green, does it improve the sound?
Andrew
Timothy J. Aberg
|> van has been painted red!
I thought it was usually a black van.
Stephen J. Cunningham
I bought from these guys in Harrisburg PA about 6 yearrs ago. On a separate
incident they sold to a band member of mine in Pittsburgh PA. I guess the
infamous white van died of mileage abuse.
Nigel R Flack
well of course not! you have to color it green with a marker. And not just
any marker, only one advertised in Stereophile is allowed. The time
commitment is worth it for the overall tightening of the sound.
the flacker
HUM william
I've been reading the various posts about these 'White Van' speakers and
maybe I'm just green but could some kind soul tell me exactly what this
is all about? Are these good brand-name speakers that are stolen or are
they just big impressive looking speakers which some guy built in his
garage for $50?
Larry Keys
Nope! One day about a week ago i was at a stoplight, and a guy in a "white
van" in the left turn lane, gets my attention, winds down his window an says
Hey, I've got these great speakers...
In '93 this has happended to me at least 3 times, here in Maryland.
Richard D Pierce
No, they're big impressive looking speakers made to look like good
brand-name speakers that are stolen which a whole bunch of people built
in a big factory for $20.
--
| Dick Pierce |
| Loudspeaker and Software Consulting |
| 17 Sartelle Street Pepperell, MA 01463 |
| (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX) |
Chenghsiu Sung
>In article <2dis93$o...@barracuda.dadd.ti.com>, bri...@library6.uucp
>(Britt Brooks) writes:
>> [...]
>> All readers in Dallas-Fort Worth, beware! The White
>> van has been painted red!
>
>I've been offered this "deal" twice now, in the San Diego area. And a few
>months ago one of the White Van folks had the bad judgement to try to sell to
>a guy who happened to be a local tv news reporter...
>
>Judging by the number of people who have encountered these folks, they must be
>really ubiquitous.
Yes, samething happen to me at New York, but who are they? Is this some
kind of cheating?
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Raistlin Majere
Ah, I've run into these people before as well, in the midwest.
Twice in Champaign, IL, last year.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Name: Adam Kobulnicky In Real Life: Raistlin Majere
email to : akob...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
"We are finally as we were meant to be."
Jonathan L. Proulx
$50?! Try $15 or $5...
----JP
j...@cmkrnl.com
Yes, the folks at a local stereo dealer were asked by a local news station to
look at a pair of "white van" speakers. They estimated total cost to make
was about $40. For the pair.
The cleverest thing about them is really the pitch. They're offered for sale as
"really good speakers, they sell for $1500, we can let you have them for half
that", and they can be argued down to just a few hundred or so. The line is
usually something like "the store ordered four and got four pairs [or some
other error resulting in more speakers being delivered than were ordered], they
don't want the extras but they were custom built so the factory doesn't want
'em back".
ie it's just flaky enough to make the mark think that the speakers are probably
at least a *little* warm, but hey, they're a good deal, and it's kinda sorta
conceivable that they're legit, right? and anyway since this'll be a cash deal
they'll never be able to trace 'em back to the buyer...
put it this way: Obviously it's a clever pitch, because it WORKS on enough
people to make this a profitable enough business that somebody keeps making and
selling the damn things.
richard.b.dell
>maybe I'm just green but could some kind soul tell me exactly what this
>is all about? Are these good brand-name speakers that are stolen or are
They would love for you to think this .. ie -- bargain due to being
illegal .... BUT ....
>they just big impressive looking speakers which some guy built in his
>garage for $50?
>
Yeap ... that's it in a nutshell. Or some FarEast sweatshop, and somoeone
bought a container full real cheap.
--
Richard Dell
Stefan Svala
> In article <CHLC...@fc.hp.com>, r...@fc.hp.com (Bob Niland) writes:
> > Is there an actual regional or national marketing organization that owns a
> > fleet of vans and has the speakers made to order? Are they being hustled
> > directly or indirectly by the manufacturer? And if not, where do these
> > individual Mom'n'Pop (or is it Beavis'n'Butthead) operators go to get their
> > merchandize?
>
> I should think that the weight penalties of shipping boxes of air would apply
> to intra-US shipments too. It'd be pretty cheap to ship the drivers around,
> buy the "wood" locally, and slap 'em together. There may be little knots of
> college kids all over the country making minimum wage at this.
>
This summer I met this(?) white van in Gothenburg Sweden, I didn't talk
to them very long but afterwards I've read about them selling speakers
called Acoustic Audio, a research in a mag gave the the speakers was
from Great White North Inc. in Illinois (If I remeber correctly).
The mag had get hold of a sample and stated "the worst crap we've ever heard".
/Stefan
Peter Kendell
Peter
DISCLAIMER - This message is posted in a purely personal capacity
and does not represent the views or policy of
International Computers Ltd.
Richard D Pierce
Nope, they're made in a nice big factory right here in the good ol' US of
A, somewhere in Illinois for one of them. It's too expensive to ship big
wooden boxes filled with air across the ocean. Drivers are made in either
Mexico, Taiwan or Korea, boxes are made here and stuffed here.
Bob Niland
> Nope, they're made in a nice big factory right here in the good ol' US of
> A, somewhere in Illinois for one of them.
As an industry "insider", Dick, can you give us some background on this
particular subculture of the audio marketing industry? You don't need to
name names, but a searing analysis of the "design" of these things might
be humorous.
Is there an actual regional or national marketing organization that owns a
fleet of vans and has the speakers made to order? Are they being hustled
directly or indirectly by the manufacturer? And if not, where do these
individual Mom'n'Pop (or is it Beavis'n'Butthead) operators go to get their
merchandize?
Regards, 1001-A East Harmony Road
Bob Niland Suite 503
Internet: r...@csn.org Fort Collins
CompuServe: 71044,2124 Colorado 80525 USA
Richard D Pierce
>Richard D Pierce (DPi...@world.std.com) wrote:
>
>> Nope, they're made in a nice big factory right here in the good ol' US of
>> A, somewhere in Illinois for one of them.
>
>As an industry "insider", Dick, can you give us some background on this
>particular subculture of the audio marketing industry? You don't need to
>name names, but a searing analysis of the "design" of these things might
>be humorous.
There is no "design". The systems use a generic homo-polymeric
polypropylene 12" woofer (transulcent white cone) with a foam surround
and a 6-7 oz ceramic ferrite magnet. Typical T/S parameters are:
Fs 30 Hz Not unreasonable for a 12" woofer
Vas 180 L In the ballpark for2" foam surrounds
Qms 5.37 typical
Qes 1.39 very high, because of small magnet
Qts 1.10 ditto, see below
Re 4.82 ohms lowish for an "8 ohm system"!
n0 0.27% equiv to a sensitivity of 84.6 dB 1W @ 1m
Mms 40 g expected
Cms 6.9 x 10^-4 m/N expected
This driver is available from OEM suppliers such as KSC (where the
samples I saw came from), Pioneer OEM Industrial, Tonegen, Foster and so
on. All quotes were for about $9.00 in thousands lots.
For anyone that knows, it's obvious the above woofer is completely
unsuitable for a reflex system, at least as us mere mortals understand
them. The actual -3dB point measures at around 70 Hz, using the 84.6 dB
as a reference level.
The response of the system on axis is about +8, -15 dB 50 to 20 kHz,
+- 5 dB, 60 to 11 kHz. There's lots of nice, very narrow, high-Q peaks
and valleys due to cone resonances and the like.
The midrange and tweeter are completely and uttery unremarkable paper
cone units available from the above manufacturers. Midrange was quoted at
$3.63 average, tweeter at $2.25.
The crossover consistes of two small electrolytic capacitors and a
thermal disconnect for the tweeter. OEM cost in thousands pre-mounted on
a spring-terminal cup was about $1.75.
The estimated manufacturing costs for each enclosure is about $8.00 in
large quantities. There is NO labor in the cabinet to speak of. It's all
automated vinyl-wrap v-groove manufacturing technique.
Interestingly enough, all of the cosmetic junk and packing material
(chrome-plated trim rings for drivers, level controls, grill, etc) is a
substantial portion of the total parts cost (almost $12).
Total parts cost is, thus, about $35-37 bucks.
>Is there an actual regional or national marketing organization that owns a
>fleet of vans and has the speakers made to order? Are they being hustled
>directly or indirectly by the manufacturer? And if not, where do these
>individual Mom'n'Pop (or is it Beavis'n'Butthead) operators go to get their
>merchandize?
There are at least two companies that I know of that engage in these
products, selling them nationwide. The one I am most familiar with (going
by the name of "Julie Bros." or some such, target college campuses for
their "reps". They once provided training seminars for these reps,
including a list of standard "stories" or pitches to be used.
The Federal Trade Commision and the Illiois Attorney General took them to
court for false and misleading advertising. The settlment was that they
were to plead no contest, cease false claims (such as inflated retail
price and performance specifications) and specifically inform their
reps to do the same.
How do I know this? Well, that's what being an expert witness in a
criminal trial is all about.
garry.j.heon
>>
>>I've been reading the various posts about these 'White Van' speakers and
>>maybe I'm just green but could some kind soul tell me exactly what this
>>is all about? Are these good brand-name speakers that are stolen or are
>
>>garage for $50?
>
>Yeap ... that's it in a nutshell. Or some FarEast sweatshop, and somoeone
>bought a container full real cheap.
>
******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
* Garry Heon AT&T *
* he...@cbnewsg.att.com Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************
Raistlin Majere
>Nope, they're made in a nice big factory right here in the good ol' US of
>A, somewhere in Illinois for one of them. It's too expensive to ship big
>wooden boxes filled with air across the ocean. Drivers are made in either
>Mexico, Taiwan or Korea, boxes are made here and stuffed here.
Yeah, I have a friend who made the mistake of getting scammed by these guys.
The address of the place you're supposed to send the speakers to, if ( more
like when ) they fail, is in St. Charles. About 35-40 miles west of Chicago.
I opened his speakers up, the mids and tweets were Taiwan made, with the
woofer stamped from Mexico.
j...@cmkrnl.com
> fleet of vans and has the speakers made to order? Are they being hustled
> directly or indirectly by the manufacturer? And if not, where do these
> individual Mom'n'Pop (or is it Beavis'n'Butthead) operators go to get their
> merchandize?
I should think that the weight penalties of shipping boxes of air would apply
to intra-US shipments too. It'd be pretty cheap to ship the drivers around,
buy the "wood" locally, and slap 'em together. There may be little knots of
college kids all over the country making minimum wage at this.
Or, for that matter, they could be made in Mexico at even cheaper labor rates,
lax environmental controls, etc. (Probably right next door to the silk-screen
place that makes all those paintings on black velvet that are sold in Tijuana
... )
Richard D Pierce
>
>What brand name is usually on these speakers?
>
Here is just a small list of the names I have seen them go by:
Dynamic Audio 1901
Acoustic Monitor db-IV
Audio Reference 4350
Ultra Acoustics
Acoustic Research 4350
Acoustic Linear 520
ADS 520 Studio Monitor
Acoustic
Acoustic 300P
Pro Poly
Acoustic Reference
I have personally seen about half these names on actual sample, the rest
pop up regularly in the local classified ad weeklys.
Notice the more than faint resemblance to real brands, such as "1901" or
Audio Research or ADS 520 or "4350" and the like.
They're all the same swill.
Lon Stowell
Just to start a controversial thread, why is it that no one has
used the white van specials as a basis for do-it-yourself mods?
It might make an interesting alternative to the Minimus 7
projects....making a WV-special into something faintly resembling
a real speaker. ???
Jim Roth
In article <1993Dec5.0...@cmkrnl.com>, j...@cmkrnl.com writes...
>In article <1993Dec4.2...@newstand.syr.edu>, jlpr...@mothra.syr.edu (Jonathan L. Proulx) writes:
>> In article <CHHuL...@newsflash.concordia.ca> h...@cs.concordia.ca (HUM william) writes:
>>>I've been reading the various posts about these 'White Van' speakers and
>>>maybe I'm just green but could some kind soul tell me exactly what this
>>>is all about?
....
>put it this way: Obviously it's a clever pitch, because it WORKS on enough
>people to make this a profitable enough business that somebody keeps making and
>selling the damn things.
"Just remember, you can't cheat an honest man..."
from _The Flim-Flam Man_
- Jim
Mark Obsniuk
I watched a news article last year where these people had set up a
distribution center for the "sales persons" It was all legite but that is
besides the point.
It is there wonderful sales pitch "we just happen to have some 'extra' speakersthat you can have for an incrediable $800cnd but are worth $1400 or something
like that. Well my friend was fortunate to meet on of these people. He got them
down to $250 so the sales person still got $80 out of the deal. I took it apart
the other day and when I picked up the speaker expecting to have some weight.
Well I will just say that I have a 10" speaker that weighs more then the whole
unit did. The gauge of steel used in the basket is like tin. And my KEF tweeter
has a bigger magnet then the 12". Good thing I did not turn it on or I might
have hemoraged from the laughter.
I wish I could have been pulled over so as to try out a set with my small
portable 300w Phoenix Gold amp. I would enjoy destroying these "high"
quality speakers. But that will not happen.
Mark
Richard D Pierce
No chance. The cabinets are made from the worst grade 5/8" and 1/2"
flakeboard.
carl.w.muhlhausen
>
How about three mods:
1) Replace the cabinet with a well braced 3/4" MDF box.
2) Replace the drivers to match the new box.
3) Replace the crossover to match the new drivers.
Oh yeah, use the original grill cover if you want, otherwise replace
it too.
Carl
Carl Muhlhausen
att!taz!ledzep
(908)-949-3402
Ying Liaw
I would like to know the price for a pair of B&W 802 speakers
in US. as well as the mail order company which carries them
at a resonable price.
Does anyone know what kind of tax is required if I mail order
speakers from state? How the warranty works?
Thanx,
YL
Dave Dal Farra
>
> Just to start a controversial thread, why is it that no one has
> used the white van specials as a basis for do-it-yourself mods?
> It might make an interesting alternative to the Minimus 7
> projects....making a WV-special into something faintly resembling
> a real speaker. ???
That's sick. I think your due for as day off Lon :-).
...DD
Lon Stowell
>> Just to start a controversial thread, why is it that no one has
>> used the white van specials as a basis for do-it-yourself mods?
>> It might make an interesting alternative to the Minimus 7
>> projects....making a WV-special into something faintly resembling
>> a real speaker. ???
>>
>>
In article <CHo53...@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> led...@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (carl.w.muhlhausen) writes:
>
>How about three mods:
>
> 1) Replace the cabinet with a well braced 3/4" MDF box.
>
> 2) Replace the drivers to match the new box.
>
> 3) Replace the crossover to match the new drivers.
>
>Oh yeah, use the original grill cover if you want, otherwise replace
>it too.
>
to turn a M-7 into a decent speaker.
Maybe a M-7, white van, AI 3-way shoot-off?
William K. Chan
one of these guys in a white van recently. The guy did seem pushy in trying
to get me to buy a set of these aweful "Acoustic Linear Phase 8812" (sounds
impressive don't they?) speakers, so I decided to buy a pair after all. I
had to pay only $120 for them. They always say that if I don't buy today,
I won't get a chance to get in on any other 'great' deals he has on receivers
and other great stuff, not that I really cared. I powered the speakers
through my Pioneer VSX 512s (which I bought from him for $360) and the sound
quality was not good by any standards. I did a little research on my own
on these speakers. Someone told me these speakers were cheaply made in
Southern California (they have various plants throughout the country) and
although they were terrible speakers, my friend told me that it's actually not
too bad for the money ($120) and that if I had spend at least $180, I could
have gotten much better sounding speakers. My opion on these speakers now?
They suck!!! I don't think my Pioneer receiver is covered by Pioneer either.
Apparently, the guy in the white van gets his stuff from a place called CSD
(Car Stereo Distributors). It seem to be located in Buena Park, Ca. and
also another one in Phoenix Arizona. Does anyone out there want to buy a
'great' pair of speakers or a Pioneer receiver off of me?
Bill
Stuart Krivis
|In article <2dis93$o...@barracuda.dadd.ti.com> bri...@library6.uucp (Britt|
|Brooks) writes: |
|... All readers in Dallas-Fort Worth, beware! The White
|van has been painted red!
-Ro...@calamari.hi.comÄ------------------------------
|If you paint the van green, does it improve the sound?|
------------------------------------------------------
Only around the edges. :-)
... The spice must flow...
stuart...@pcohio.com OR bp...@cleveland.freenet.edu
---
ţ SPEED 1.4i #1424 ţ I tried the rest and now use the best! SPEED READ!