Heart beat at subwoofer .... help
F.H.Chan
I have a problem with my audio system lately. There seems to be a heart beat
sound coming from the subwoofer. My setup is:
[ Pioneer DVD ] ==> [NAD C420 Amplifier] ==> [Cresta 2 speakers]
||
\||/
[Robertson Subwoofer]
The connection to the subwoofer is from the NAD pre in-out terminal, as
shown in the manual. Everything was fine innitially.
I've tested the following:
1) switch off DVD player & amplifier, the heart beat sound is still there.
2) switch off subwoofer, only on DVD & amp, the beat is still there.
3) switch off subwoofer & remove power cord, heart beat goes off.
4) all turned on but remove output from subwoofer, beat still on.
5) all turned on but remove both in/output to sub, beat goes off.
6) DVD off, amp & sub on, beat still on.
7) remove sub from the system, beat is gone.
I'm wondering, what happened to the sub? Is there anyway of rectification?
Or could the problem be cause by others besides the sub?
One other thing, the DVD player & amplifier doesn't have an "Earth"
connection, only the sub. With the sub connected, the beat sound also gets
into the amplifier and is heard at the main speakers.
I don't know what to do at the moment. If anyone could help me, a million
thanks in advance!!
Thank you!
Glass.
Henry Pasternack
"F.H.Chan" <voo...@tm.net.my> wrote in message
news:3ddc4515$1...@news.tm.net.my...
> Hi Everyone!
>
> I have a problem with my audio system lately. There seems to be a heart
beat
> sound coming from the subwoofer. My setup is:
>
> [ Pioneer DVD ] ==> [NAD C420 Amplifier] ==> [Cresta 2 speakers]
> ||
> \||/
> [Robertson Subwoofer]
>
> The connection to the subwoofer is from the NAD pre in-out terminal, as
> shown in the manual. Everything was fine innitially.
Must be worn out tubes in your amplifier. Try replacing them, preferably
with NOS types.
-Henry
Greg Pierce
this sunshine up our collective asses:
Well, my first suggestion is to avoid Henry's BS advice.
Second, check out the auto-turn-on of your powered subwoofer. It sounds
like it is doing a power-on power-off cycle, which would give you
the repeated "thump-thump" sounds. If your subwoofer does this when
the cable connecting it to the amp's pre-outs is disconnected, then the
culprit is the subwoofer itself. If it does not, then it is very likely
that your amplifier has some DC on its pre-outs; this would signal the
sub to turn on, and then the sub may have a "DC-input protection"
circuit that would turn it off - the cycle would then repeat. One of the
above are most likely the problem.
If the amplifier is causing it, then that may mean you have an output
coupling capacitor with some electrical leakage, or the output device(s)
(possibly an op-amp in the NAD; I am not familiar with that amp) are DC
coupled to the output and it has some offset for some reason. The former
is unlikely in modern gear with modern film capacitors (I sure hope they
didn't do something horrible like use an electrolytic!). It is VERY
unlikely if it is not tube-based, since nearly all SS units DC couple
the line-level output devices to the jack.
--
Greg
"I have seen things you losers wouldn't believe.
I've seen lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate.
I've seen monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab.
All of these moments will be lost in time, like the root partition last
week...
Time to die."
Jon Yaeger
IMHO, Henry's a nice guy - no need to excoriate him over a difference of
opinion . . .
- Jon
In article <3DDC5547...@nospam.com>, Greg Pierce
Bob Hedberg
of America.
"F.H.Chan" <voo...@tm.net.my> wrote:
Bob H.
Just grab that plate in one hand, the chassis in the other,
and FEEL the power of tube audio!!!
(not literally, of course, just kidding. DON'T DO THAT!)
Gregg
<voo...@tm.net.my> ordered his scribes to write:
>Hi Everyone!
>
>I have a problem with my audio system lately. There seems to be a heart beat
>sound coming from the subwoofer.
Sounds like motorboating to me. Two things that I know of that can
cause that are ground loops and audio sneaking through the power
supply rails.
1) Double check for groud loops and......
2) Check for shifted value caps in the power supply. The impedance
could have gone up for some reason.
--
Gregg
*It's probably useful - even if it can't be SPICE'd*
Check out the cool electronics forum at:
http://www.dutchforce.com/~eforum/index.php
Gregg
jo...@mindspring.com (Jon Yaeger) ordered his scribes to write:
>Greg,
>
>IMHO, Henry's a nice guy - no need to excoriate him over a difference of
>opinion . . .
>
>- Jon
Is it just me or are all the Greggggggg's (myself included) all hot
tempered here?
(I seem to recall our ZM making an implication that where there are
flames, there's usually a few Gregggg's nearby) ;-)
:-p
Bob Hedberg
external chassis screw on the amp and attaching it to the subwoofer
ground. (one which screws into metal chassis material).
Adding one to the DVD player might be good, also.
Was the problem there from the start? Maybe an impedance mismatch
between the amp and sub, or an excessive gain problem?
Bob H.
Henry Pasternack
news:3DDC5547...@nospam.com...
> Your friend and mine, Henry Pasternack <hpast...@rcndot.com>, blows
> this sunshine up our collective asses:
>
>
> Well, my first suggestion is to avoid Henry's BS advice.
Not only are you a dork, Greg, but you have no sense of irony.
-Henry
Choky
;))
--
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
choky*remove*@eunet.yu
YU
-------------------------------
remove *remove* to reply!
-------------------------------
"Gregg" <nos...@unknown.com> wrote in message
news:3ddc9f72...@news.telus.net...
Greg Pierce
<hpast...@rcndot.com> enlightens us with these pearls of wisdom:
A "dork"? I expected more from a man of your education. That sounded
very Jute-like.
At any rate, I figure one of two things about your first reply:
A - You were trying to be funny. If this is the case, I sincerely
apologize. However, if that is an example of your humor, may I suggest
the liberal use of emoticons ;-)
B - You were being serious. In this case, I would like to suggest that
you obtain a clue before responding to people's questions.
Ian Iveson
> A "dork"? I expected more from a man of your education.
Stop being horrid to each other. And what's a dork, please? And
for over a year now, and considerably more so lately, we seem to
greet newcomers, apparently deemed clueless, with pathetic and
unhelpful attempts at the kind of sarcasm that is now almost all
that binds our smug little clan.
I found your original answer intriguing, Greg, and see no reason why
we shouldn't fill a gap in the market for straightforward advice
from someone who knows what he's on about.
Perhaps, Henry, we might encourage Mr Chan to mend the error of his
ways better by not insulting him, and by not leaving him feeling
foolish and none the wiser. Only by fully exhausting the potential
of the transistor will he be in a position to truly appreciate the
beauty of valves, and Triode may take another step on the march to
its imperial destiny.
cheers, Ian
Henry Pasternack
news:e7lD9.46$9J4....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> Perhaps, Henry, we might encourage Mr Chan to mend the error of his
> ways better by not insulting him, and by not leaving him feeling
> foolish and none the wiser. Only by fully exhausting the potential
> of the transistor will he be in a position to truly appreciate the
> beauty of valves, and Triode may take another step on the march to
> its imperial destiny.
Basic newsgroup etiquette requires new posters to research a group
before posting to insure their comments and questions are relevant
to the subject matter. Chan made a lazy or clueless mistake and
received the traditional, gentle, humorous correction.
I'm appalled by your sweetness, Ian. You should instead admonish
Greg for his crude language. And Patrick should admonish you for
being too serious.
Honestly! You're giving me a manners lesson? What nonsense.
-Henry
Patrick Turner
Henry Pasternack wrote:
Heartbeats in subwoofers can provoke the most unpredictable
outcomes in terms of eloquence.
TGIF!
( Thank Gord it's friday )
Or as the elequent builder's labourer I knew once said,
"Ah, Its a Poet's Day."
"And what exactly do you mean old son, by a Poet's day?" I asked.
"Piss Orf Early, Termorra's Satdy?!"
As a young foreman, on a building site,
I was compelled by the glowering stern old supervisors
to never allow the wishes of the labourers to prevail,
which must have seemed heartless to any witness, and devoid of
compassion, and as we age we loose heartiness, but then find heartbeats
in the oddest of places, such as subwoofers.
Patrick Turner.
Henry Pasternack
news:3DDE3070...@turneraudio.com.au...
> As a young foreman, on a building site,
> I was compelled by the glowering stern old supervisors
> to never allow the wishes of the labourers to prevail,
> which must have seemed heartless to any witness, and devoid of
> compassion, and as we age we loose heartiness, but then find heartbeats
> in the oddest of places, such as subwoofers.
White man speak with forked tongue.
-Henry
Fred Nachbaur
Henry, here we don't use "that" f-word. We say "farnarckled" instead. :-p
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects, Vacuum Tubes & other stuff: |
| http://www.dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+
Greg Pierce
> "Greg Pierce" <tras...@nospam.com> wrote
>
>
>>A "dork"? I expected more from a man of your education.
>
>
> Stop being horrid to each other. And what's a dork, please? And
Well, I am not sure what all of the dictionary definitions are but a
"dork" can be a slang term for a penis. It can also be a synonym for
other slang terms such as "geek". I suppose it depends on the context.
Gregg
<tras...@nospam.com> defiles the name of "Geek" and writes:
>Ian Iveson wrote:
>> "Greg Pierce" <tras...@nospam.com> wrote
>>
>>
>>>A "dork"? I expected more from a man of your education.
>>
>>
>> Stop being horrid to each other. And what's a dork, please? And
>
>Well, I am not sure what all of the dictionary definitions are but a
>"dork" can be a slang term for a penis. It can also be a synonym for
>other slang terms such as "geek". I suppose it depends on the context.
OY! I resemble that remark :-p
(I use Geek on many HTTP forums)
;-)
Patrick Turner
Fred Nachbaur wrote:
> Henry Pasternack wrote:
> > "Patrick Turner" <in...@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:3DDE3070...@turneraudio.com.au...
> >
> >>As a young foreman, on a building site,
> >>I was compelled by the glowering stern old supervisors
> >>to never allow the wishes of the labourers to prevail,
> >>which must have seemed heartless to any witness, and devoid of
> >>compassion, and as we age we loose heartiness, but then find heartbeats
> >>in the oddest of places, such as subwoofers.
> >
> >
> > White man speak with forked tongue.
> >
> > -Henry
>
> Henry, here we don't use "that" f-word. We say "farnarckled" instead. :-p
>
> Fred
I dunno, forked tongue speil is usually devil talk, and at least
mischeivious,
if not naughty and subversive,
and something forked is quite different to something
farnarkled, which is a enjoyable way to spend time with Kylie
or Nicole, should they be willing to spend time with us, and very unlikely,
since they possibly may assert that we are "dorks", with crazy
incomrehensible
obsessions about "tubes", and not much chop at farnarkling as much as their
ravenous appetite might dicktate; well, not at the super expensive resorts
where something "romantic" is supposed to take place.
In fact, if you are of ungainly build, move clumsily, and wear very thick
glasses, and are unable to detect or react positively if Nicole was starkers
in front of you,
then indeed, if you were not a nerd, then dork is the right title.....
Meanwhile, every time some outright bastard moves a knight
to check a king and threaten a queen at the same move, it is called a fork.
It can lead to major stoushes at cafes where "games" of chess are attempted.
Patrick Turner.
Tony Miklos
>
> Hi Everyone!
>
> I have a problem with my audio system lately. There seems to be a heart beat
> sound coming from the subwoofer. My setup is:
This is a wild, wild guess (more of a strange story) but a friend of
mine kept getting a 60hz hum in ALL the speakers when he hooked up the
sub woofer. He sent it back for another one, same thing. His system
was hooked up with the TV, VCR, DVD, ... you name it. Unplugging
various components and getting different results was confusing to say
the least. Nothing made sense. Tried hooking up different grounds, no
luck. As I was ready to quit, somehow I found the problem ended up
being his cable TV input. I have no idea why he never had the hum
without the sub woofer, but for some odd reason the combo of the sub
woofer and the cable TV did it. The cable guy came out and fixed
something and everything then worked fine.
--
Tony
Greg Pierce
>
> Fred Nachbaur wrote:
>
>
>>Henry Pasternack wrote:
>>
>>>"Patrick Turner" <in...@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
>>>news:3DDE3070...@turneraudio.com.au...
>>>
>>>
>>>>As a young foreman, on a building site,
>>>>I was compelled by the glowering stern old supervisors
>>>>to never allow the wishes of the labourers to prevail,
>>>>which must have seemed heartless to any witness, and devoid of
>>>>compassion, and as we age we loose heartiness, but then find heartbeats
>>>>in the oddest of places, such as subwoofers.
>>>
>>>
>>>White man speak with forked tongue.
>>>
>>>-Henry
>>
>>Henry, here we don't use "that" f-word. We say "farnarckled" instead. :-p
>>
>>Fred
>
>
> I dunno, forked tongue speil is usually devil talk, and at least
hehehe :-p
Actually, "forked tongue" was a phrase used in North America by some
of our native American Indians. It means "to lie". So, when the Indian
said "white man speak with forked tongue", he was calling the white man
a liar.
In other words, Henry was calling you a liar. Why, I do not know. Henry
probably doesn't know either....
Henry Pasternack
news:3DE06B78...@nospam.com...
, "forked tongue" was a phrase used in North America by some
> of our native American Indians. It means "to lie". So, when the Indian
> said "white man speak with forked tongue", he was calling the white man
> a liar.
>
> In other words, Henry was calling you a liar. Why, I do not know. Henry
> probably doesn't know either....
You take me for a fool, Greg, which is a very serious mistake. If I wanted
to call Patrick a liar, I would have said so directly, and explained why.
With a small bit of effort on your part it should be simple to uncover the
meaning of my comment. I'm certainly not going to waste my time explaining
to you what you can figure out for yourself. Perhaps someone else will take
the time. It's not exactly a deep puzzle.
-Henry
Greg Pierce
> "Greg Pierce" <tras...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE06B78...@nospam.com...
> , "forked tongue" was a phrase used in North America by some
>
>>of our native American Indians. It means "to lie". So, when the Indian
>>said "white man speak with forked tongue", he was calling the white man
>>a liar.
>>
>>In other words, Henry was calling you a liar. Why, I do not know. Henry
>>probably doesn't know either....
>
>
> You take me for a fool, Greg, which is a very serious mistake. If I wanted
Well, I base my opinions on the information at hand...
> to call Patrick a liar, I would have said so directly, and explained why.
> With a small bit of effort on your part it should be simple to uncover the
> meaning of my comment. I'm certainly not going to waste my time explaining
> to you what you can figure out for yourself. Perhaps someone else will take
> the time. It's not exactly a deep puzzle.
>
How about this for starters:
<http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/20/t0262000.html>
Henry Pasternack
> > You take me for a fool, Greg, which is a very serious mistake.
>
Well, you are misinformed.
> How about this for starters:
> <http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/20/t0262000.html>
Pathetic.
-Henry
Patrick Turner
Greg Pierce wrote:
> Patrick Turner wrote:
> >
> > Fred Nachbaur wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Henry Pasternack wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Patrick Turner" <in...@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
> >>>news:3DDE3070...@turneraudio.com.au...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>As a young foreman, on a building site,
> >>>>I was compelled by the glowering stern old supervisors
> >>>>to never allow the wishes of the labourers to prevail,
> >>>>which must have seemed heartless to any witness, and devoid of
> >>>>compassion, and as we age we loose heartiness, but then find heartbeats
> >>>>in the oddest of places, such as subwoofers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>White man speak with forked tongue.
> >>>
> >>>-Henry
> >>
> >>Henry, here we don't use "that" f-word. We say "farnarckled" instead. :-p
> >>
> >>Fred
> >
> >
> > I dunno, forked tongue speil is usually devil talk, and at least
>
> hehehe :-p
>
> Actually, "forked tongue" was a phrase used in North America by some
> of our native American Indians. It means "to lie". So, when the Indian
> said "white man speak with forked tongue", he was calling the white man
> a liar.
>
> In other words, Henry was calling you a liar. Why, I do not know. Henry
> probably doesn't know either....
I don't care what folks call me, if it included liar, or "economist with the
truth",
then so what. Being called a liar or a fibber, is just one way of voicing
disagreement, and sure, its a tricky thing eh.
I am too busy arrangeing amps and speakers to sing properly than to
get down and dirty with wars about who called who a liar.
Maybe he with the forked tongue was a lowly creature, as low as a snake,
which has a forked tongue, which it uses sniff out the truth of the world,
full of humans, which only seem hell bent on killing snakes, and ruining
a snake's environment.
This attitude all stems from the Bible, where it was writ that the serpent
coiled on over to Eve, and tempted her, who tempted Adam, and thus we were
darned foreverafter.
Snakes and sheilas are the root of our downfall.
In Oz, the native locals here were trialled by the Serpent,
about 50,000 years ago. At that time, The Devil lacked the networked
sophistication
he has now, and worked through the serpent to tempt the Ozzy Eve.
Adam, far more astute and observant than the Bible indicates,
saw the snake a'comin, with an apple, and said, "Fuck dat apple Eve,
I gonna kill dat snake and eat him up, he good tukka!"
For the next 49,800 years, the Oz inhabitants got on with a life
untroubled by absurd notions of the Bible, and western culture. The longevity
of these sturdy people was a bit longer than the boat people arriving 200 years
ago,
who insisted on building lots of pubs to destroy lives with alcohol.
The Devil thought twice about tempting the original Ozzies,
and worked on fooling dumb northern hemisphere folks instead.
Besides, its a long hot wriggle across lonely hot deserts for a snake on a
devil's mission,
and the corruption of souls bears an expense and pain that the accountants
running
Hell thought were not worth the bother. Besides, the early western immigrants
to Oz
were naturally well skilled with a forked tongue, and easily able
to lead the original inhabitants to a darned existance, and thus saved the
Devil
much logistics expenses.
So unlike Ireland, where there are no snakes, because St Patrick drove
them out by loud command, whilst holding holding a copy of the New Testament,
there are plenty snakes in Oz, and if the most poisenous type should bite
you on your bum, then its all over in 20 seconds, without a single sylable
being uttered from a low down forked tongue.
Patrick Turner.
Ian Iveson
comics where native Americans say "white man speak with forked
tongue", that is about *all* the English they seem to know, and they
otherwise appear a pretty inscrutable lot. So who knows what they
might have meant?
I understood a particular kind of lie...a deliberate ambiguity
intended to be naively misunderstood...a cleverly misleading
obfuscation.
Henry seems to have taken it to mean oblique or obscure, or perhaps
too clever.
I can't agree that misunderstanding Henry is a serious mistake
anyway, but on this occasion he just made no sense in the first
place. If I thought he was picking on Patrick I would have been
really upset.
cheers, Ian
"Greg Pierce" <tras...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3DE1187...@nospam.com...
Henry Pasternack
> I can sympathise with the problem here. I mean, in the films and
> comics where native Americans say "white man speak with forked
> tongue", that is about *all* the English they seem to know, and they
> otherwise appear a pretty inscrutable lot. So who knows what they
> might have meant?
>
> I understood a particular kind of lie...a deliberate ambiguity
> intended to be naively misunderstood...a cleverly misleading
> obfuscation.
>
> Henry seems to have taken it to mean oblique or obscure, or perhaps
> too clever.
>
> I can't agree that misunderstanding Henry is a serious mistake
> anyway, but on this occasion he just made no sense in the first
> place. If I thought he was picking on Patrick I would have been
> really upset.
Forthrightness, straightforwardness, and careful consideration before
speaking are traditional values of Native American communication. The
stereotypical Indian pidgin was as much a deliberate put-on as anything
else. The Indians didn't much respect the white men, whom they regarded
as retarded or insane because the white men said one thing when they meant
another. If Patrick must express himself in rambling, confusing metaphors,
then I feel free to respond in kind with metaphors of my own. I picked
the forked tongue metaphor because I just happen to be reading a book
dealing with contrasts between Native American and Europen cultures.
I never said it is a mistake to misunderstand me. What I said is that
it is a mistake to take me for a fool. I am not a fool, Ian, and I
certainly make as much sense as Patrick.
When you say I made no sense in the first place, are you talking about
the forked tongue comment, or my original remark about tubes in the NAD
receiver? Well, obviously, only a fool would make that tube comment and
mean it, eh? So either I'm a fool or I was joking. If it was a joke, it
was a perfectly sensible one, and appropriate, too, in the context. If
you meant the forked tongue comment, you've apparently had no problem
understanding it, so it's incorrect to say it made no sense.
All this fuss, for a harmless two-line posting. This newsgroup has become
incredibly dull-witted. It's true, I don't know why I bother reading it.
Bad habits die hard, I guess.
-Henry
Patrick Turner
Henry Pasternack wrote:
Well said Henry.
What a dull world it would be if we were confined to two line replies,
and we couldn't ramble on a bit, as you have above.
Patrick Turner.
Tim Williams
news:artfmb$2hd$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> All this fuss, for a harmless two-line posting. This newsgroup has become
> incredibly dull-witted. It's true, I don't know why I bother reading it.
> Bad habits die hard, I guess.
Frankly, Henry, I find it interesting how tension starts rising when
you and/or Andre hop back in after every 6 months or so.
A somewhat similar thread is going on on RCM, though that perp is a
bit simpler.
Tim
--
"Hey, back in high school I was voted most likely to be a Hillbilly,
mental patient or Chimpanzee!"
- Homer Simpson
Henry Pasternack
news:uu4r8ff...@corp.supernews.com...
> Frankly, Henry, I find it interesting how tension starts rising when
> you and/or Andre hop back in after every 6 months or so.
>
> A somewhat similar thread is going on on RCM, though that perp is a
> bit simpler.
>
> Tim
There are important differences between Andre and me. Andre is a basically
malicious person who knows nothing about electronics, but tries hard to make
you believe otherwise. I am a basically decent person who knows a lot about
electronics, but (at the moment) doesn't try at all to make you believe it.
Hmmm.
It's amazing to me that in the end, people have a hard time telling the two
of us apart. Style trumps substance, I suppose. I have contributed
thousands
of pages of useful information to this group over the years, and all Andre
ever brought to the group was lies and commotion.
I've just this half hour devised an interesting prototyping scheme. It's
for
a solid-state communications receiver I'm building, but could be useful for
tube audio as well. I found that if you break out the pins of a
machined-pin
IC socket, you can carefully press them into 0.052" holes drilled in
copper-clad
board. I used my drill press with drill bit installed upside down for this
purpose.
Component leads can be inserted into the socket holes, and soldered later
when the circuit is verified. Connections can be made underneath with wire
wrap wire. You can relieve the ground plane with a larger twist drill, or
leave the copper intact and solder for ground points. This could be a very
elegant alternative to using swage turret pins, especially for high-density
circuits.
-Henry
Henry Pasternack
can
> carefully press them into 0.052" holes drilled in copper-clad board.
FYI, it seems 0.057" would be better. You can buy even cooler Mill-Max PC
pins
from Digi-Key. Part #0272-0-01-01-00-00-03-0 looks interesting, but the
minimum
order is a bit daunting.
-Henry
Tim Williams
> It's amazing to me that in the end, people have a hard time telling the
two
> of us apart. Style trumps substance, I suppose. I have contributed
> thousands
> of pages of useful information to this group over the years, and all Andre
> ever brought to the group was lies and commotion.
Sorry about the lack of clarity; I know this and forgot to mention(?) it.
Unfortunately, and it has been spoken before, let's see some work buddy!
And if you are so informationally useful, why haven't you stayed, giving
useful input and output where needed? Andre isn't a problem *if everyone
ignores him* ("don't feed the trolls").
I've been here over a year and again, frankly, haven't seen much good from
you.
Patrick Turner
Henry Pasternack wrote:
Howsabout posting a picture at ABSE?
Patrick Turner.
Henry Pasternack
> Unfortunately, and it has been spoken before, let's see some work buddy!
>
> And if you are so informationally useful, why haven't you stayed, giving
> useful input and output where needed?
The usenet archives contain most of my postings. These are my enduring
contribution to the community. It's too much tedious work to keep writing
the same articles over and over again, and too pretentious to repost them.
I suppose I've said just about everything I have to say about tube audio.
Isn't that odd?
> Andre isn't a problem *if everyone ignores him* ("don't feed the trolls").
Someone will always pay attention to Andre, and he will always be a problem
if not actively countered. It's a thankless task, but I believe I served
the group well in this regard, even if the work wasn't appreciated.
> I've been here over a year and again, frankly, haven't seen much good from
> you.
From time to time, I post worthwhile technical articles. By and large when
I have something really interesting to say, it is ignored or misunderstood.
Mostly, though, I guess I'm just bored with tubes and audio in general.
Lately I've been working on RF design, and playing the piano.
In two days I turn forty. I must have made my first posting to usenet when
I was about twenty-three. It's been a long, long journey and an often
tumultuous experience. I used to regard newsgroups as electronic
communities
and I identified with them accordingly. This group really let me down, and
changed my view of usenet forever.
You're right, Tim. I have no more business with rec.audio.tubes. I'm outta
here.
-Henry
Patrick Turner
Henry Pasternack wrote:
Henry, don't try to proove you are growing old too soon.
Tim the teenager might be a little critical, but you gotta expect that
from the younger mind. Its normal for a youngfart to call an olderfart
an old fart.
The fact is that being forty is being just a kid to guys of 80,
some of whom are still equipped with fine mental ability.
Most of us dunno where to look for specific answers
to questions, and I doubt many would feel it was pretentious to
repost some blast from the past.
Perhaps usenet was an elite and exclusive place, but now it is mainstream,
and all can come to the "college of the cyber school"
Is that not a fair, and equitable way of the world?
Patrick Turner.
Ken Gilbert
> you.
then you have no idea how to search usenet with google's engine.
ken gilbert
Guenter Scholz
Henry Pasternack <hpast...@rcndot.com> wrote:
>You're right, Tim. I have no more business with rec.audio.tubes. I'm outta
>here.
>
posts and you will be missed by many I'm sure. You should reconsider. BTW, I
don't think the previous poster has any idea of how to do searches.
-Guenter
Peter McMullin
<tmor...@charter.net> wrote:
>"Henry Pasternack" <hpast...@rcndot.com> wrote in message
>news:artsn3$50k$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>> It's amazing to me that in the end, people have a hard time telling the
>two
>> of us apart. Style trumps substance, I suppose. I have contributed
>> thousands
>> of pages of useful information to this group over the years, and all Andre
>> ever brought to the group was lies and commotion.
>
>Sorry about the lack of clarity; I know this and forgot to mention(?) it.
>
>Unfortunately, and it has been spoken before, let's see some work buddy!
Perhaps some historical research would be useful. More below.
>And if you are so informationally useful, why haven't you stayed, giving
>useful input and output where needed? Andre isn't a problem *if everyone
>ignores him* ("don't feed the trolls").
Well there's the crux of the problem, Tim. Everyone *doesn't* ignore
Andre, therefore he is a problem. The lies, deceit, and outright
slander always come through. Unfortunately there are those relative
newcomers in the group who have not done any serious research into
issues that were discussed here five or six years (and longer) ago.
There are people who have been participating on Usenet far longer than
you or I, who see it as their *moral responsibility* to debunk crap,
whether it be malicious or innocently repeated misinformation. People
like Henry here, and Dick Pierce, and JJ over on rec.audio.tech and
r.a.high-end, who have each contributed more accurate, impartial
information to the groups they post on than most other authors
combined. Then they get abused by weenies who don't understand their
passion for presenting TRVTH, and their sense of responsibility for
saving readers from being led down the garden path by others less
honest. I sure can't blame Henry for getting cranky or reticent when
he gets no thanks for the body of information he has contributed to
the archives, then has to field criticism from newbies with no
historical perspective, simply for continuing to debunk.
>I've been here over a year and again, frankly, haven't seen much good from
>you.
That's a short visit, grasshopper. Go back a few years in the
archives. Do an author search. You will see that Henry has contributed
fairly rigorous treatments of several circuit topologies, practical
information about project design and construction, and debunking of
misinformation. You will also see that he has been on the receiving
end of more abuse from psychopaths, narcissists, and plain ol' idiots
than any person should have to endure. Please do your homework.
>Tim
Kind Regards,
Peter
To reply via email, change "nospam" to "net".
A surplus of information never facilitates simple decisions.
Peter McMullin
Guenter, I couldn't agree more. Please see my reply to the previous
post!
Fred Nachbaur
Andre Jute wrote:
[the usual]
Oh GOT, not again.
Wish-I-could-say-"Cheers",
Fred
Henry Pasternack
news:s497uus4eb6jokgob...@4ax.com...
> There are people who have been participating on Usenet far longer than
> you or I, who see it as their *moral responsibility* to debunk crap,
> whether it be malicious or innocently repeated misinformation.
I appreciate the kind words, Peter, but I really have run out of things
to say about tubes. As for TRVTH, the internet will just have to fend
for itself.
Thanks to the kind people who were so supportive over the years.
You now have permission to return to the newsgroup, Andre.
-Henry
Ken Gilbert
created. until then your words are a waste of electrons.
ken gilbert
Jeff Thompson
"Andre Jute" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> wrote in message
news:JJP5Y32H3758...@Gilgamesh-frog.org...
> Peter McMullin accuses me of lying but offers no example and no
>
> proof. He accuses me of deceit but he offers no example and no proof.
>
> He accuses me of slander but he offers no example and no proof.
>
>
>
> McMullin, offer us examples and verifiable proof, or apologize, or be
>
> known forever as another fascist who believes in guilt by accusation.
>
> How many engineers is that now, on RAT alone, who publicly spat on
>
> the Constitution?
To what Constitution do you refer? I wasn't aware of any
Constitution relating to newsgroup postings. (Isn't this a "worldwide"
community?) I certainly don't remember any prohibitions against individuals
making personal insults
in the US Constitution.
Jeff T
Jeff Thompson
is still following this thread. : )
Jeff T
"Fred Nachbaur" <fnac...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3DE41A1A...@netscape.net...
Greg Pierce
>
>
> Andre Jute wrote:
> [the usual]
>
> Oh GOT, not again.
>
> Wish-I-could-say-"Cheers",
> Fred
Perhaps I could suggest adding Jute to your killfile ;-)
Patrick Turner
Greg Pierce wrote:
> Fred Nachbaur wrote:
> >
> >
> > Andre Jute wrote:
> > [the usual]
> >
> > Oh GOT, not again.
> >
> > Wish-I-could-say-"Cheers",
> > Fred
>
> Perhaps I could suggest adding Jute to your killfile ;-)
The past seems like its due for a re-run.
Worse things have happened.
Some feuds and memories last a lifetime.
Anyway, the rest of us can get on without clawing each other to bits.
Patrick Turner.
Ian Iveson
Erm...you'd gone, remember?
> You now have permission to return to the newsgroup, Andre.
Well, and good riddance to you now. Pity, I quite liked you before
and I was actually trying in my own style to be nice to you in the
first place. As it happens we can deal with Andre easily and
quickly...it's a simple enough trap to avoid, you clot, you were a
victim of your own vanity. Andrea didn't even need to be clever.
> I appreciate the kind words, Peter, but I really have run out of
things
> to say about tubes. As for TRVTH, the internet will just have to
fend
> for itself.
Well, it'll be tough I know, but we'll just have to pull together
and muddle through somehow.
Bye now, shame about the ignominy.
Ian
Ian Iveson
> Constitution relating to newsgroup postings.
There is a constitution for the group. People make up all sorts of
rules as they go along though. Suppose its part of the daft
power-play thing. Anyway, there are founding documents from when
the group was created, but I've forgotten where. I do remember that
the founders defined the group specifically to exclude professionals
and flame wars. I remember also that Oskari (none other, and who
else!) led me to the documents.
The presence of professional business interest is a necessary part
of most flame wars, and of much misinformation and posturing. The
crux of the matter was that it should be strictly amateurs, and the
subject matter should be all valve-related audio, including
instrument amps.
Needless to say, successive waves of commercially-motivated messiahs
and their sad retinues of apostles, fundamentalist priests and
acolyte terrorists have managed to restrict most amateurs to a
subservient role.
That's the way life is I guess.
cheers, Ian
Peter McMullin
"Andre Jute" <Anonymous...@See.Comment.Header> ranted in message
news:JJP5Y32H3758...@Gilgamesh-frog.org...
> Peter McMullin accuses me of lying but offers no example and no
>
> proof. He accuses me of deceit but he offers no example and no proof.
>
> He accuses me of slander but he offers no example and no proof.
> McMullin, offer us examples and verifiable proof, or apologize, or be
>
> known forever as another fascist who believes in guilt by accusation.
>
> How many engineers is that now, on RAT alone, who publicly spat on
>
> the Constitution?
>
>
>
> Andre Jute
<further ranting snipped for brevity>
Dear RATs,
What I offer is opinion for which I feel no need to apologize.
It would not be constructive to re-iterate proofs which exist
in the Usenet archives, available to anyone with the stomach
to do the research. Those who were subject to the original
postings will prefer not to revisit the past.
However, newer readers of rat might do well to research
some history on Google before jumping to conclusions.
IIRC, 1996-1997 was an interesting time which Mr. Jute
would prefer his audience to be ignorant of, so that he might
present his revisionist views to a sympathetic audience.
A word to the wise should be sufficient, so now I shall refrain
from further comment on this issue in the public forum.
Kind Regards,
Peter
Fred Nachbaur
Andre Jute wrote:
> [...]
>
>
> Peter McMullin, your actions prove you a liar hoping to deceive us.
> [...]
Wrong. For the record, I've known Peter McMullin for twenty years, since
long before either of us were actively re-involved with vacuum tubes. In
that time I've never found him to be anything other than completely
honest and honourable.
By the way, who is "us"?
Cheers,
Fred
Oskari Heinonen
>
> Anyway, there are founding documents from when
> the group was created, but I've forgotten where. I do remember that
> the founders defined the group specifically to exclude professionals
> and flame wars. I remember also that Oskari (none other, and who
> else!) led me to the documents.
Did I sense a repost request? There:
BTW, here are some interesting tidbits from the history of RAT.
http://www.landfield.com/usenet/control/rec/rec.audio.tubes
rec.audio.tubes is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote
for creation by 263:24 as reported in news.announce.newgroups
on 11 Aug 1995.
For your newsgroups file:
rec.audio.tubes Electronic audio circuits which use vacuum tubes.
The charter, culled from the call for votes:
Rec.audio.tubes is dedicated to the discussion of vacuum tube
audio equipment, including the following topics:
* hi-fi applications
* guitar (and other instrument) amplifiers
* radio circuits
* theory and design
* vintage and modern equipment
* repair/modification/restoration
* purchase recommendations
Participants from all backgrounds are welcome. Polite expressions
of opinion are welcome. Personal attacks and flame-wars are not.
Let's keep things civil, informative, and fun.
http://www.landfield.com/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.audio.tubes
http://www.landfield.com/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/rec/rec.audio.tubes.marketplace
P.S. http://www.mts.net/~cpw/trolls.htm gives the following advice.
The Care and Handling of Trolls
There is really only one rule regarding the proper care and handling of
these special creatures:
1. Ignore them.
Unfortunately, just as some of us have trouble "seeing the forest for
the trees", many find this commandment too unsophisticated to accept as
a panacea. Hence, we have added four more commandments, listed here in
the fervant hope that no astute reader will notice that they are simple
restatements of the first:
2. Do not "feed" (i.e. insult) the trolls.
3. Do not mention the name of a troll.
4. Do not comment on the works of a troll.
5. Do not read the posts of a known troll.
--
Oskari Heinonen * University of Helsinki * Department of Computer Science
Oskari....@cs.Helsinki.FI * http://www.cs.Helsinki.FI/Oskari.Heinonen/
Peter McMullin
<fnac...@netscape.net> wrote:
>Andre Jute wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>
>> Peter McMullin, your actions prove you a liar hoping to deceive us.
> > [...]
Your old recourse to juxtaposition is tiresome, Andre. Go away.
>Wrong. For the record, I've known Peter McMullin for twenty years, since
>long before either of us were actively re-involved with vacuum tubes. In
>that time I've never found him to be anything other than completely
>honest and honourable.
>
>By the way, who is "us"?
>
>Cheers,
>Fred
Hi Fred, thanks for the kind words, but they are wasted on Jute.
You'll only make yourself another target.
For any other readers who were not following the group back in the
mid-late '90's, I can only say that the archives speak for themselves.
But not many have the patience or the stomach to research how this all
started, so they understand the dramatis personae.
My initial foray above Jute's radar was a similar attempt to defend
other constructive, prolific authors here who were driven to
distraction by this narcissistic stalker. Be careful what you step in
unless you've got your boots on.
Many good people were sickened of this group and left. I hope you
don't become another. Better, I guess, to ignore him lest you become
bitter and jaded. The temptation to debunk misinformation still
arises, though. Maybe the folks who are more trigger-happy with their
killfiles are wiser.
Now I have joined some very good company in being labeled a liar,
guilty of libel and slander, slime, scum, etc. by Jute (we're waiting
for some more original pejoratives). And I will sleep very well
tonight.
Best Regards,
Peter
Henry Pasternack
> As it happens we can deal with Andre easily and quickly... it's a simple
> enough trap to avoid, you clot, you were a victim of your own vanity.
> Andrea didn't even need to be clever.
You'll forgive me, I trust, if I tidy up a few loose ends on my way out
the door.
Historically, as long as Andre is able to control his aggressive impulses,
he is accepted here by people who ought to know better. Without someone
to challenge him, I believe he will rebuild a favorable reputation -- in
spite of the fact that he is a compulsive liar. This used to trouble me,
but now I don't care enough about the newsgroup or the community to keep
up the defense. It remains to be seen whether or not you will be able to
deal with him. If so, it is only because of the tremendous effort I and
a few others have put in over the past few years to expose him and to chop
him down to size. I'm actually interested to see what happens, which is
why I delivered Andre to you before taking my leave.
To say I am a victim of my own vanity is both hopelessly simplistic and
essentially inaccurate. But I won't get into it. If I am a victim, it's
of my idealism and of my unrealistic expectations for this so-called
electronic community.
While I don't think I have a personal grudge against any current member
of the newsgroup, collectively I'm just underwhelmed by the whole affair.
I just wasn't willing to let go and admit I have no place here anymore.
It's tough when you you wake up one day and realize you no longer care
for your best old friend. I guess that's kind of what I was feeling
about this group.
Ignominy? I don't think so. Maybe in a literal sense, but I certainly
feel no shame. You're entitled to your opinion, of course. It honestly
makes no difference to me. Now, if you'll be kind enough not to say
anything I'll want to respond to, I'll be on my way.
-Henry
Greg.Pierce
Translation of the last sentence; "Do not reply, because I always have
to have the last word".
You know, more and more I am starting to suspect that Henry and Andre
are in fact the same person, like a Jekyll and Hyde alter-ego. Maybe
Henry-Andre is suffering from multiple personality disorder :-p
Well, it was just a thought ;-)
Gary Glaenzer
put a damned sock in it
"Andre Jute" <squi...@echelon.alias.net> wrote in message
news:23b301dc2d9e7b59...@anonymous.poster...
> Fred, the man accuses someone of being a liar. When he is asked for proof,
> he
> says it is his opinion and claims there is proof elsewhere. He doesn't
specify
> the
> lie, he doesn't offer evidence, he doesn't apologize. That makes him a
liar
> and
> scum, whatever you may think of him..
>
> How is it "honest and honorable" for McMullin to libel someone and then to
> run
> away from the necessary consequences? How can he do that and not be slime?
>
> It is this sort of crap--"my friend right or wrong:--that has wrecked RAT
to
> the
> point where you don't even notice what an unprincipled sewer of lies and
> baseless accusations it is.
>
> As recently as 1996, if McMullin came here and spouted his vicious hatred,
>
> thirty posters would have demanded that he instantly deliver his proof or
> apologize. Now, instead, you --and just about everyone else-- abuse me for
>
> standing up to scum like McMullin--because you like him, or because you
> dislike me. What is right isn't a matter of popularity.
>
> "Us" is everyone McMullin tries to deceive with these unspecified
accusations
>
> for which he refuses to supply evidence; he has succeeded with you. "Us"
is
> me
> and anyone who wishes to stand up for the simple decencies, including the
>
> basic decency of no denouncement without proof. Clearly "us" in the good
> sense of decency no longer includes you. Pity.
>
> I reprint my letter in full below so that it is not represented by your
distorting
>
> selection from it, and so that everyone may read and marvel at McMullin's
>
> limply self-indulgent justification for his vicious lies and libels.
>
> Andre Jute
>
> Fred Nachbaur wrote:
>
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >
> > Peter McMullin, your actions prove you a liar hoping to deceive us.
> > [...]
>
> Wrong. For the record, I've known Peter McMullin for twenty years, since
> long before either of us were actively re-involved with vacuum tubes. In
> that time I've never found him to be anything other than completely
> honest and honourable.
>
> By the way, who is "us"?
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>
> Andre Jute wrote:
>
> McMullin, whether someone is a liar, or deceitful, or committed slander,
is
> not a
> matter of opinion. These are accusations subject to verification by
evidence.
> If
> you have no evidence, you should not make these cowardly accusations and
> then run away when asked for proof.
>
> Peter McMullin, your actions prove you a liar hoping to deceive us. You
> committed libel on me (which is what you intended to accuse me of when you
>
> used the word slander). You're slime and your "opinion" is a worthless
travesty.
>
> You're another Ugly Engineer who thinks your profession should be above
the
>
> common decencies. That makes you scum, like Pasternack and all his
> fellow-travellers.
>
> Correction: contrary to your statement, again made without evidence, that
I
> do
> not want anyone to investigate the beginnings of the demise of RAT, I
> particularly want them to understand that all this crap started when the
> monehangers in the temple started whipping me to prevent me throwing them
> out; you pal Pasternack was just another mercenary in the pay of Michael
> LaFever. His hatred of me didn't arise from principle but because I
exposed
> his
> base motives. It's all on the archive, and I'd be delighted if people
would
> use
> their search engines. You've yet again rashly made yourself a liar,
McMullin.
>
> With utmost contempt,
>
> Andre Jute
Fred Nachbaur
Andre Jute wrote:
> [...]
>
> Peter McMullin, your actions prove you a liar hoping to deceive us.
> [...]
Hm... interesting. I posted a reply to the false accusation above, based
on my having known Peter McMullin for some twenty years.
What's interesting is that someone deleted the message. To do so he
would have had to pretend to be me, and therefore act in a deceitful and
cowardly manner.
I wonder who that might be.... and what is it called when you pretend to
be someone else....
Cheers,
Jeff Thompson
when he used the word "Constitution". Accusing someone
of having spat on a newsgroup charter would be pretty weak.
I also see nothing in this newsgroup's charter suggesting that professionals
are unwelcome here. The only things mentioned as being unwanted are personal
attacks and flames.
Jeff T
Greg Pierce
>
>
> Andre Jute wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> Peter McMullin, your actions prove you a liar hoping to deceive us.
>> [...]
>
>
> Hm... interesting. I posted a reply to the false accusation above, based
> on my having known Peter McMullin for some twenty years.
>
> What's interesting is that someone deleted the message. To do so he
> would have had to pretend to be me, and therefore act in a deceitful and
> cowardly manner.
>
> I wonder who that might be.... and what is it called when you pretend to
> be someone else....
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
Your reply still shows up on my NG server. However, I wouldn't put it
past Andre to try something like that.
Greg Pierce
> More bumbuddies, so close you can't slide a razorblade between their equally
> foolish opinions. It's embarrasing to share even a hobby with such idiots.
>
> Andre Jute
>
I thus break out the following cans of whoopass:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:rec.audio.tubes+insubject:killer+bee&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&filter=0>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=*+group:rec.audio.tubes+insubject:magnequest+author:andre%40indigo.ie&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&filter=0>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=*+group:rec.audio.tubes+insubject:pasternack+author:andre%40indigo.ie&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&filter=0>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?q=*+group:rec.audio.tubes+insubject:jute+author:andre%40indigo.ie&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&filter=0>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&scoring=d&q=*+group%3Arec.audio.tubes+insubject%3Ajoenet+author%3Aandre%40indigo.ie&btnG=Google+Search>
I could keep going, but I think everyone on RAT will get the picture if
they check out any of the above links. Google is such a wonderful tool,
don't you think? I particularly like the Killer Bee Saga ;-)
Have a nice day, Andre :-p
Chuck Harris
with sarcasm?)
I left RAT in the middle of that whole hat pissing contest. I was glad
to forget the whole thing. It was nice to come back 3 years later and
find it was gone, and mostly forgotten. But like stepping in dog poop,
no matter how far you walk, it just won't go away.
Andre please!!! I implore you, get back on your medication!
Henry, if you were the one who brought Andre back to RAT... Well words
do not adequately describe my disgust.
-Chuck
Ian Iveson
"Jeff Thompson" <in...@cox.net> wrote in message
> I doubt that Andre was referring to a newsgroup charter
> when he used the word "Constitution". Accusing someone
> of having spat on a newsgroup charter would be pretty weak.
Dunno why he would refer to any other constitution either, and it
would not be safe to assume that the accusation was not weak. But
who cares.
> I also see nothing in this newsgroup's charter suggesting that
professionals
> are unwelcome here. The only things mentioned as being unwanted
are personal
> attacks and flames.
Check all Oskari's links and see my other reply.
My feeling is that the charter is history and the real rules would
be up to anthropologists and social psychologists to discover.
Nevertheless I felt some personal affinity with the part of the
documents that bemoans the hostility of professionals towards
amateurs. Attempts to impose professional discipline in discussion,
implicit or explicit, are a serious obstacle to amateur involvement.
It is supposed to be "fun", and that doesn't include mocking people
who don't seem to know much.
It is easy to ignore Andre, but it is not easy to run the gauntlet
of shallow sarcasm and dismissive one-liners every time you open
your mouth. And if that is *all* you get, there is simply no point
in speaking.
Henry seems to imply that, considering my own behaviour, I have no
right to comment. Fair dinkum, Henry. I get cross because, as a
resolute amateur, I have made one or two enemies of mocking
professionals. Being grumpy with them is a necessary part of
maintaining my own space, unfortunately. I do try not to be nasty
for fun, which is why I try to avoid the Andre thing now...win or
lose, it's a bad feeling.
cheers, Ian
Ian Iveson
> Did I sense a repost request? There:
...
Thanks, Oskari. I am afraid I have somewhat romanticised the
contents of the documents since I lost the text! Although it does
mention concerns about professional electronic engineers "hostile"
behaviour towards amateurs, and those were part of the reason for
the groups creation, the essential statement upon which the vote was
held makes plain that all are welcome.
Nevertheless there is implicit in the rationale a desire to create
an environment in which professionals are not hostile to amateurs,
and where on-topic discussions can be fun.
best regards, Ian
Fred Nachbaur
Greg Pierce wrote:
>> [...]
>> Hm... interesting. I posted a reply to the false accusation above,
>> based on my having known Peter McMullin for some twenty years.
>>
>> What's interesting is that someone deleted the message. To do so he
>> would have had to pretend to be me, and therefore act in a deceitful
>> and cowardly manner.
>>
>> I wonder who that might be.... and what is it called when you pretend
>> to be someone else....
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Fred
>
>
> Your reply still shows up on my NG server. However, I wouldn't put it
> past Andre to try something like that.
OK, it's back again on my server too. Yet an hour after I posted it,
clicking on the header gave "Error, message not present, may have
expired..." Just a hiccup I guess, but it certainly couldn't have
happened to a stranger post.
Guess I'm just getting paranoid in my old age. ::sigh:: What is it these
past few days, a blue moon or something? ;-)
Peter McMullin
<pe...@hurontario.nospam> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:30:47 GMT, Fred Nachbaur
><fnac...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>Andre Jute wrote:
>>> [...]
(all of it snipped for relevance)
Aw crap, sorry guys. I should know better.
Life's too short to take this stuff seriously.
Jeff Thompson
> Re: Heart beat at subwoofer .... help
>
> Jeff
>
> There is a indeed newsgroup constitution but that is not what I was
referring
> to. I have no problem with the newsgroup constitution and have always
acted
> strictly within it. If I ever have a problem with the newsgroup
constitution,
> I shall have it changed rather than break it. I’m not a revolutionary; I
work
> from within existing structures.
(snip Ian related rant)
>
> The constitution I referred to is the Constitution of the United States,
and
> in particular its clauses which state and imply that every man is innocent
> until proven guilty.
Fine, but no one here is acting as an agent of the US
government, and no one is trying to subject you to punishment by the US
penal system. Neither you,
nor a considerable number of those you refer to are citizens
or residents of the US, and are therefore not subject to provisions of the
US Constitution.
We have just seen, are still seeing, an example of a hysterical
> witch hunt on RAT, with dozens of examples of attempts by inadequates like
> Greg, Choky, Fred and Tim and deliberate scum (like McMullin) to establish
> guilt by mindlessly iterated accusation. All of that happened because I
sent
> a single helpful, courteous message on Quad II amps…
>
Gee.. I just re-read the Quad II thread , and aside from
Patrick wondering how long you could remain civil, no one
said any thing negative with regard to you. It wasn't until
someone remarked (to Henry) that this newsgroup generally
remained civil until he (Henry) or you showed up that the
trouble started. Henry posted what he felt made him different from you, and
you responded, and then all hell broke loose. This flame-fest has nothing to
do with your Quad II post, but is simply a continuation of a long
standing feud between you and certain other posters.
> The Constitution does not say anything about insults, which may be an
amusing
> debating ploy*, but it gives protection against criminal libel, which is
false
> accusation.
Laws regarding offences such as slander and libel are part
of US code and have nothing to do with the Constitution.
(Libel is what the inadequately educated Peter McMullin means
> when he uses the word “slander”; he doesn’t have the brains or
sophistication
> to see that by falsely making the accusation and then refusing to back it
with
> facts, he makes himself a libeller, besides a liar and a deceiver, and
failure
> for being so easily exposed.)
>
> Hope this answers your questions, Jeff, as I’m trying to bugger off to
real
> work, being too embarrassed by the deplorably low standard of debate (and
electronics)
> on RAT to wish to be associated with it.
>
> Andre Jute
> *If you think that a limp twerp like Choky is offensive when he calls
people
> queer (and, Choky, the word is spelt poofter, or phonetically, if one
renders
> accent and dialect — which a functional illiterate like you shouldn’t
attempt
> — pooftah), you should hear what people like Hamilton and Burr said about
each
> other, or Abe Lincoln about other lawyers, never mind his political
rivals,
PS. You seem to be having some sort of problem with
your browser, all of you posts are appearing multiple
times.
Jeff T
Fred Nachbaur
[...]
> ... inadequates like
> Greg, Choky, Fred and Tim ...
Woohoo! Hey guys, we made it onto Andre's hate list!
It's about time. I was starting to feel inadequate. :-p
> and deliberate scum (like McMullin)...
Hm. I've seen slimy scum, green scum, and slimy green scum. I'm finding
it difficult to imagine what "deliberate scum" would look like.
Poetic license, I suppose.
Bob Hedberg
Bob Hedberg
Fred Nachbaur <fnac...@netscape.net> wrote:
Bob H.
Just grab that plate in one hand, the chassis in the other,
and FEEL the power of tube audio!!!
(not literally, of course, just kidding. DON'T DO THAT!)
Chuck Harris
people of the United States allow the US government.
The laws of the United States, and its individual
states, codify and proscribe punishments for behavior
that the people find unacceptable. These laws must
not exceed the powers allowed by the US Constitution.
No one here is acting on the behalf of the US or state
governments to restrict you in any way.
Because of our laws, and constitution, someone from the
US or state governments would have an extremely difficult
time getting someone, even as obviously delusional as you
are, incarcerated.
Sorry Andre, you will have to find some other excuse for
why you feel persecuted by the Rat gang.
-Chuck
Andre Jute wrote:
>
> The constitution I referred to is the Constitution of the United
> States, and
> in particular its clauses which state and imply that every man is innocent
> until proven guilty. We have just seen, are still seeing, an example
Greg Pierce
> The US Constitution describes the powers that the
> people of the United States allow the US government.
>
> The laws of the United States, and its individual
> states, codify and proscribe punishments for behavior
> that the people find unacceptable. These laws must
> not exceed the powers allowed by the US Constitution.
>
> No one here is acting on the behalf of the US or state
> governments to restrict you in any way.
>
> Because of our laws, and constitution, someone from the
> US or state governments would have an extremely difficult
> time getting someone, even as obviously delusional as you
> are, incarcerated.
>
> Sorry Andre, you will have to find some other excuse for
> why you feel persecuted by the Rat gang.
>
> -Chuck
>
Well, for my part, I feel it is inappropriate to try to apply the
Constitution of a particular nation to a worldwide forum like the
internet.
However, while we are on the subject, is/was Andre a U.S. citizen?
The first I ever heard of him, he resided in Ireland...
John Byrns
<hpast...@rcndot.com> wrote:
> You now have permission to return to the newsgroup, Andre.
Hi Henry,
Does your permission extend to me, may I also return to the newsgroup?
Regards,
John Byrns
Surf my web pages at, http://www.enteract.com/~jbyrns/index.html