Sonic character of parts?
Steve Zettel
where I find some comparisions of various type capacitors.
I'll ask the question here:
What are the sonic characteristics of the various type replacement or
"upgrade" capacitors being marketed today?
When I was reading Audio Amateur magazine, it was enough to substitute a
poly film for a less cap, or bypass an electrolytic with poly. Now there
are a whole variety of exotic caps. Some of the prices make it
uneconomical to experiment!
So,
polycarbonate vs polypropylene vs polystyrene
and more to the point,
oil/paper (Jensen) vs "exotic films (MIT and Infinicap and some Relcaps)
On the same subject:
Sonic qualities of resistors?
carbon comp vs. metal oxide vs metal film vs. noninductive metal foil packs, etc
Holco vs Roderstein vs Caddock vs Mills vs Vishay?
I also note in a recent Audio Electronics project that Mr. Borberly
offered an resistor upgrade package with his kit of tantalum resistors. I
know for capacitors, tantalum is verboten! What is with tantalum in
resistors? Increased precision, or better sonics?
I have a specific project in mind and I will summarize for the group if
there is any interest.
Thanks for your time.
Steve Zettel
near Libby, MT USA
xov...@my-deja.com
Steve, There is no such thing, as different parts having different
sounds. The electrons don't know the difference! Just ask Frank Van
Alstine at AVA! Just kidding, and seriously, I think you could gain the
most by going to The Tweakers Asylum
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/bbs.html
and doing a search there on caps, resistors, parts ect... There are
many great posts there to read, like some from John Risch.
http://members.xoom.com/Jon_Risch/ A lot of facts can be gleened in
Michael Percy Audio's catalog and read the descriptions of caps ect...
His prices and help are as good as they come. E mail mpe...@svn.net
He can send you a PDF catalog. Also, I would just like to say that
there is a very small difference between quality brands of caps ect..
If you have a $25,000. stereo then these very small differences may
become a little larger. To me most are worth the money. Here are some
notes on resistors taken mostly from M. Percy's catalog. NOTES: Holco
1/4 watt H8, Roderstein MK3 and MK2, 1/2 watt Dale, 1/2 watt Xicon, and
the Caddock MS 214 series lead diameters all are .024" (.61 mm) or
less - .032"-Holco
HOLCO: Great, but maybe not as good as Caddock. Transparent,
smooth, my personal choice. A 1% metal film resistors with ceramic
substrate, gold plated/copper end caps and copper leads. 1/4 watt, 1/2
watt and 1 watt, 50ppm with a working voltage of 300Vdc. No magnetic
materials used throughout the construction. We have the following
values listed below. *Highly praised by Hi Fi News & RR, mfg. by
Holsworthy of Devon, England. Name is derived from wHOLe COpper.
*Metal film on a ceramic substrate with gold plated ends joined to
copper end caps and .032"D copper leads.
*H4 (RN-60) .5 watt @70°C, 300VMax, TCR is 50ppm *H2 (RN-70) 1.0 watt
@70°C, 350VMax, TCR is 50ppm
*Tolerance is specified at 1% but in reality I find they are usually
within .25% of their nominal value. M. Percy
ROEDERSTINE: Most people are using metalfilm resistors and we have been
delivering our KITs with 0.5W/1% Roederstein MK-2 metalfilms. These are
very good quality resistors, however, they have their own sonic
signature. Customer feedback indicates that, like most metalfilms, they
sound a bit dry, and they emphasize the high-end of the frequency
range. One customer called it the "typical hi-fi sound".
TANTALUM: Lowest noise and distortion. Available 0.5W and 1W/1%. Ideal
for High-End amps, stepped attenuators, including tubes. The 0.5W
tantalum resistors are larger than standard 0.5W metalfilm resistors,
but can be mounted on 0.5" (12.5mm) spacing.
Tantalum resistors solve some of the problems mentioned. They sound
less dry than the metalfilms and they do not emphasize any particular
frequency range. They sound more natural, more musical. They work
equally well in transistor and tube amplifiers. Having said that, some
also said that the tantalums sound too "nice", with less control in
bass and a touch less "presence" in the midrange.
CADDOCK: Further experiments with resistors led us to the Caddock
resistors, specifically to the MK 132 types. These are also metalfilm
resistors, but they do not exhibit the typical "metallic" character of
the metalfilms. The CADDOCK resistors offer very clean, dynamic sound
with very good bass. They sound very clean with good dynamics, focus
and a very good control of bass. Unfortunately, they are very
expensive. Although you can build a whole amplifier with only Caddocks,
it is not necessary. To take advantage of their unique sonic qualities
it is usually enough to put Caddocks in the input stage and the
feedback network, A combination of Tantalums and Caddocks gives the
best result in most amplifiers.
Caddock resistors provide the same level of quality as the Vishay
resistors, maybe better, however they are less costly. CADDOCK
TF020 Ultra-Precision Film Resistor
* Non-Inductive oxide design, 15ppm/°C TCR, 1% tolerance, .33 Watt to
70°Centigrade, 300V maximum operating voltage.
* Constructed with Caddock Tetrinox film for long term stability
of .01%/1000 hours, tinned copper round wire radial leads.
* Excellent alternative to the more costly Vishay S102, and preferred
over the S102 by some, particularly at higher ½ values where
there is also a considerable cost savings. This is absolutely the most
transparent resistor Caddock manufactures and ideal for ultra
critical applications where the best possible sound is required. No
values are manufactured below 1.00K, and please take careful
note of large physical size (.750" wide by .375" high). Deduct 10% for
10+ per value. 1K-$5.95, 30.1K-$5.95
The Vishay and Caddock TF-020 are the best resistors I stock. If you
are going
to triage the resistors that could be replaced, then the series ones in
the
signal path are likely the most audible candidates, but shunt locations
are
often very important (i.e. input shunts such as phono cartridge
loading). M.Percy
VISHAY: VISHAY Bulk Foil Resistors
*S102 series non-inductive bulk metal foil resistor, TCR ±2.0ppm max,
radial lead package, copper leads.
*Nominal tolerance is 1% but measures typically ².25%, Current noise
<.025µV/volt of applied voltage.
*Values below 100K = .6W/70°C, values above 100K = .4W/70°C, 300VDC
maximum voltage.
*Superb for cartridge loads, feedback, and any critical application.
$10.95 each
Vishay VSH bulk foil radial lead resistors, now available in all of the
values above from 5.0½ to 120K, .3W @$3.75 each from M. Percy
Speaker Crossover: CADDOCK MP-930 Kool-Pak Power Film Resistor ; Low
power for tweeters...
* Non-Inductive, 1% tolerance, TCR 100ppm, 250V max. working voltage,
Micronox film fired onto a flat ceramic substrate.
* 30 Watts at 25°C if resistor is mounted on appropriate heat sink or
chassis, 2.25W at 25°C in free air without a heat sink.
* Momentary permissable overload is 1.5X rated power @1.5 x 250VMax for
5 seconds, leads are copper paddle type.
* Values 5.0K and above are MP-925 type, identical to MP-930 except are
25W with a higher maximum voltage of 500V.
* Less Expensive alternative to MP-820 within range of values produced
with somewhat higher power rating.
* See MP-820 above for heat sinks. All values are $7.50 each. Deduct
10% for 10+ per value, 20% for 25+ per value.
Hope this helps and remember, there no such thing as... ;^) Greg R.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
CERREM
>where I find some comparisions of various type capacitors.
>
You basicaly need to have a mental catalog of what various types of caps,
resistors, ect... sound like.... based on this experience you then craft a
Hi-Fi circuit to be tailored to your likings....
Here is the big stink with caps...in laymen's terms.... You have what is
called dielectric absorbtion.... this is exactly like memory in batteries....
If you were to charge then discharge a cap..it will then reform to some kind of
voltage.... The better materials have mucho smaller memory effects..such as
polysterene and THE best TEFLON....
So with an AC audio signal changing across a cap ....can you invision the
distortion of the waveform if there was any traces or remenance of previous
signal??
Well this condition is worse as the discharge time is decreased, such as occurs
with higher frequencies...
If you want a comparison of various caps...look at Steve Bench's site.... I
believe he did a bunch of hysterisis scope traces for various caps..
CHEERS
CM
bob parker
> Customer feedback indicates that, like most metalfilms, they
>sound a bit dry, and they emphasize the high-end of the frequency
>range. One customer called it the "typical hi-fi sound".
Hi,
I still can't figure out if you're serious, but if you are, then
perhaps the "dry" sound of these resistors could be counteracted by
increasing the amplifier's damping factor?
bob parker- electronics technician, sydney australia
NB: I presently have a broken leg, so it might take a
while to reply to your e-mails. Please keep them short if
possible. :)
e-mail: bob...@ozemail.com.au
home page: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar
phone/fax: +61 2 9587 8148
Auke Dost
Wel it a real hassel al those different parts
There is really only one thing to do:
Get the part witch fit youre ears and wallet!
And try to find different parts to test
Personaoly I came up with an combination of parts
Polyprop's togherter with MKS cap alwel styropor
It gave just what I needed in my amps (Williamson)
So there is no way someone could tell you what to buy or whats the best
Succes
Steve Zettel <zet...@libby.org> schreef in berichtnieuws
zettel-2511...@libby-204.libby.org...
> I didn't get much response from my last post, asking for links to sites
> where I find some comparisions of various type capacitors.
>