McIntosh MC60's - HELP
GerryE123
Hi- You may have seen the posts that I have done recently asking about the
Harmon Kardon Citation II amp. Well, I found someone with a mint (and I
mean MINT) pair of Mac MC60's, who will trade them to me for the Citation
plus $1000. The Mac's have almost zero pitting in the chrome and all of
the lettering is perfect. The owner claims that they are completely stock
(no mods). I have them on loan and they look and sound gorgeous!
My only concern is that the 2 units are apparently not of the same
vintage. The reason that I write this is because the lettering of the
output tubes on one of the units reads 6550/KT88 and the other unit reads
6550. There are also some very minor differences in the lettering on the
side and back of the two amps.
My questions for the group are:
1. Is the price (the Citation plus $1000) fair?
2. Would the fact that they are not of the same vintage concern you?
3. Where does the MC60's fall in the Mac food chain?
As always, any information or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gerry
GerryE123
Hi- you may have read my recent posts asking for information on the Harman
Kardon Citation II amp. Well, I found someone who will trade me a mint
(and I mean MINT) pair of Mac MC60's for the Citation plus $1000. The
Mac's have almost zero pitting in the chrome and the lettering is perfect.
The owner says that the amps are completely stock (unmodified). I have
them on loan and they look and sound gorgeous!
My only concern is that the two amps are not of the same vintage. I write
this because the lettering on one of the units output tubes reads
6550/KT88 and the other unit reads just 6550. Also, the lettering on the
sides and back of the units are slightly different.
My questions to the group are:
1. Is the price (the Citation plus $1000) a fair deal?
2. Should I be concerned about the units not being of the same vintage?
3. Where does the MC60's fall in the Mac food chain?
4. If I wanted to use KT88's, could I use them in the unit that is
lettered 6550?
As always any information and/or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gerry
GerryE123
Just a point of clarification from the original message poster- the
lettering reading 6550/KT88 and 6550 is on the chrome not on the tubes!
The tubes are all 6550's.
Thanks,
Gerry
Stewart Ferrell
IMHO I dont think the price is fair. An HK citation II is a great amp! The
MC60 is a good amp but not as nice to me mint or no. Plus the prodution runs
are different. The 6550/KT 88 is a new run than the other and there may be
slight circuit changes as well. The MC60 is under the mc225/mc75/mc275.
1000 dollars is more like it not 1k plus a citationII. IMHO I would stick with
the CitationII.
Lowell Cross
Without getting into the issue of price or "value" of HK Citation IIs vs.
MC-60s, I must disagree with Mr. Ferrell's comparison. Even though it
was many years ago, I had the opportunity to make direct comparative
listening tests of these amps (driving AR-1s & AR-3as), as well as
comparing measurements of the two types. Measuring equipment was
Hewlett-Packard and Barker & Williamson, quite decent for the time.
The MC-60s SOUNDED better; they also MEASURED better. I measured THD +
noise at 1 dB below clipping into an 8-ohm wirewound 100 watt load
resistor, and measured total output at clipping (one channel driven in
the case of the Citation). The MC-60s had more power output (approx. 75
watts @ 1 kHz vs. about 62 W for the Citation at the recommended output
stage bias current) AND less THD + noise just below clipping. The MC-60s
came in at about 0.2% at 1 kHz and below 0.4% at 30 Hz and 15 kHz. The
Citation measured about 0.8% at 1 kHz and around 1.0% at 30 Hz and 15
kHz.
An improvement in the H-K's THD measurements could be made by readjusting
the bias under full-output conditions, but the plates of the output tubes
would turn pink and not last very long with that biasing.
All of these amps were almost new at the time -- my own MC-60s were part
of this comparison, and I treasure them today (along with their original
Genalex "Gold Lion" KT-88s). I would NEVER change them for a HK Citation
II, primarily because of their surperior sound quality. Yes, they use
TUBE rectifiers (5U4GBs) instead of solid-state, a somewhat problematical
aspect of the design, but their sound quality is simply BETTER than that
of the Citation II.
To the original poster: I have schematics showing the difference
between two different versions of the MC-60. Send me your address and I
will be pleased to mail a copy to you.
Lowell Cross
Prof. of Music & Director, Recording Studios
The University of Iowa
Jim Kroger
In article
<Pine.NXT.3.91.96090...@coherent.music.uiowa.edu>, Lowell
Cross <lcr...@coherent.music.uiowa.edu> wrote:
>>On 1 Sep 1996, Stewart Ferrell wrote:
>>
>>> IMHO I dont think the price is fair. An HK citation II is a great
amp! The
>>> MC60 is a good amp but not as nice to me mint or no. Plus the
prodution runs
>>> are different. The 6550/KT 88 is a new run than the other and there may be
>>> slight circuit changes as well. The MC60 is under the mc225/mc75/mc275.
>>> 1000 dollars is more like it not 1k plus a citationII. IMHO I would
stick with
>>> the CitationII.
>>
>>Without getting into the issue of price or "value" of HK Citation IIs vs.
>>MC-60s, I must disagree with Mr. Ferrell's comparison. Even though it
>>was many years ago, I had the opportunity to make direct comparative
>>listening tests of these amps (driving AR-1s & AR-3as), as well as
>>comparing measurements of the two types. Measuring equipment was
>>Hewlett-Packard and Barker & Williamson, quite decent for the time.
>>
>>The MC-60s SOUNDED better; they also MEASURED better.
Well, I have to comment that, specs aside, which amp sounds better is
a subjective issue to a large extent, and different people will like
different things. This is true of Mac 60s. The 60s don't have the tightest
bass in the world, and won't have the detail of something like a Marantz 8B
(I haven't heard a Citation so can't make that comparison). But it is usually
not possible to state that one amp categorically has a superior sound relative
to another one. Blind listening tests bear this out, and so do subjective
arguments.
Regarding his question about the fairness of the trade, a pair of MC-60s
is not worth $1000 and the Citation, amp conditions being equal. I see
MC-60s for for from $1000 to $1500. The Citations usually go for from
$600 to $900.
Jim