Resistor Shoot-out... er sorta!
Bob.Obo
Just three types of resistors in this shoot-out... and me.
Same circuit... only one resistor and one interstage in the signal path
besides the tubes and OPT. (yes I know that's wrong technically), but the
circuit seems to reveal small changes like different resistors.
The trio was a high quality metal film, a tantalum and a carbon comp from
the input to the grid in a shunt volume config.
Carbon Comp (3W) dead last.... the sound was less clear and a lot less
detail; sound stage was not as defined nor as large.
Metal Film (1W) came second... a wee bit of bite or harshness but nothing
terrible; I could easilt live with this. The soundstage was well defined and
quite large; instruments well placed with solid focussed image.
Tantalum (1/2 W)... da winner! No sense of harshness at all, very detailed
but certainly not etchy. This resistor is smoooooooooth! It certainly
carries more emotion of the presentation... more nuance in the voice
inflection. Soundstage is marvalous... not an order of magnitude better than
the metal film but it is obvious; the sibalence from the cd player seems
reduced but again not at the cost of detail or clarity. This is the first
time I heard the words correctly... I thought Holly Cole was singing about a
"horse" on 8th street... mama put the children to bed so I can play it
again... but I still gonna blush. If ya got tants give them a try, if not
get some cause the results are what I would expect from a circuit or
significant component upgrade (c/f Carbon Comp)... and it's just one
resistor!
FWIW
(Bob.Obo)
Lab2d
resistors.
Acrosound
noticed that in your order of preference that your least favorite was also the
highest wattage rating resistor and your most fave resistor had the lowest
wattage rating.
Only asking.... is it possible that size played a role in the preference of
resistor?
thanks,
MSL
Vince Rhea
Interesting experiment! Got to wonder about the inter action of other
components affecting the sound though. I know this is very subjective and I
have not tried the tant's yet (I will now) but I have tried quite a few
comparison tests using metals and comps in the same circuit. The metals
always came out harsh sounding to me (and others, from what I have read in
SP). I never listened specifically for the other criteria you did, just the
overall quality and enjoyment of the sound. I suppose that as with so many
other things in life the answer lies somewhere in the middle and is a
combination of several types of resistors in the right places. We just have
to tweak our little hearts out 'til we get what we want.
Thanks very much for sharing your results. I for one will be giving the
tant's a try soon.
Vince
Bob.Obo wrote in message <38112...@news.vphos.net>...
PReese270
suck. Is there a reasonably priced source for tantalums? Or did you win the
lottery?
Pete Reese
Bob.Obo
You are correct; the wattage may have made a difference. But, wrt the
carbon comps I have heard more than a dozen times by reliable folks that the
bigger the wattage the better the performance... never the other way around.
FWIW
(Bob.Obo)
Acrosound wrote in message <19991023012154...@ng-ci1.aol.com>...
Ivan Johnston
Bob.Obo <bob...@dowco.com> wrote in message
news:38112...@news.vphos.net...
> Well,
>
> Just three types of resistors in this shoot-out... and me.
> Same circuit... only one resistor and one interstage in the signal
path
> besides the tubes and OPT. (yes I know that's wrong technically), but the
> circuit seems to reveal small changes like different resistors.
>
> The trio was a high quality metal film, a tantalum and a carbon comp from
> the input to the grid in a shunt volume config.
>
They are kinda expensive, but for my money nothing beats the Vishay bulk
metal foil resistors. Vishay offers a VSR series of bulk metal foil
resistors, this is what they call the 'value engineered' series. They
provide the same low noise performance as the higher priced models, but they
are not 'space qualified', so they are less costly. I use these in all my
low wattage applications.
Regards,
Ivan
jaap
just bought some to use in an 300b amplifier. I chose tantalums as
cathode-resitors, the rest is dale. Would it work out fine ?
jhh
bobcx
> Hey Mikey,
>
> You are correct; the wattage may have made a difference. But, wrt the
> carbon comps I have heard more than a dozen times by reliable folks that
the
> bigger the wattage the better the performance... never the other way
around.
>
I would give a 1/2 W or 1 W carbon comp a try, you might be surprised. I
would still use tantalums but IMO the 1/2W CC might sound better than the 2W
in your application.
BC
hac
>
> Hi bobobo:
>
> noticed that in your order of preference that your least favorite was also the
> highest wattage rating resistor and your most fave resistor had the lowest
> wattage rating.
>
> Only asking.... is it possible that size played a role in the preference of
> resistor?
>
are about as good as you can get for TC, but not much different than
metal films or wirewounds for noise. Carbon comps suck at just about
everything but surge handling. Not only are they noisy, their value
will change with temperature, humidity, and age. But when they fail,
they fail open. Wirewounds and spiraled film types can fail to a lower
resistance, which can be a hazard in some applications.
Can you hear TC? Maybe, in certain applications. The ranking by sound
resolution seems to line up nicely with the ranking by TC. Much like
capacitor DA and DF ranking seems to agree with audio resolving power.
Yes, some people love carbon comps. But it's not because of accuracy.
Sometimes people prefer certain resistors and caps because they mask
unpleasant recording artifacts. I myself am inclined towards speakers
with a "polite" treble response, because the frequency extremes on most
recordings have captured very little but crud.
--
Howard Christeller Irvine, CA hchris...@home.com
TubeGarden
I have been using multidimensional arrays of resistors and caps with some happy
results.
Us homebrew types do not have to be tethered on one resistor per circuit. Using
four in a parallel series, same value, not same construction, gives some nice
sonics.
Same for caps. Steve Bench measured the improvement. It is not a Big Sin to use
more than one part for any application. Two caps of different construction
sound better than either cap alone.
Why try to find The Perfect Part when you can build an array which outperforms
any indidual part?
I am not interested in saving $0.0003 in labor per unit. I am interested in
sound.
Part selection is not marriage. Live a little, get a harem.
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
Alan J. Marcy
Phoenix, AZ
PWC/mystic/Earhead
Vince Rhea
this and what has givent he most dramatic results. Sounds veerrrry
interestink.
Vince
TubeGarden wrote in message
<19991023193041...@ng-fm1.aol.com>...
TubeGarden
Hi Vince,
Now playing is SV83 single stage.
Most of bias comes from inline AA from RCA to grid. It was overdriving, so I
boosted the bias with a 10 ohm cathode resistor, bypassed by five different
models of Panasonic 1000 uF 6.3V caps AND a 0.05 uF 1600V PP for luck.
Yrs, friends, it is a fine trick.
Vince Rhea
TubeGarden
>Vince
>
Hi Vince,
Think of the array as a mall. The electrons, being sub-atomic particles, are
SFB (stuff for brains) and really like malls. Happy electrons sound better.
People that know all the why known to man have designed boring amps.
HOW does it sound is a much more useful question, which we all can answer for
ourselves with a few easy experiments.
chili
Where do I get the Vishay VSR's?
Thanks
Chili
>Bob.Obo <bob...@dowco.com> wrote in message
Ivan Johnston
chili <xxboo...@cts.com> wrote in message
news:38132351....@nntp.cts.com...
> Where do I get the Vishay VSR's?
>
Last time I bought some was just over 1 year ago. I bought them directly
from the Vishay Precision Center, in Hagerstown MD (301)739-8722. Ask for
either Phylis or Teresa. They will give you a quote for any standard value,
at tolerances up to 0.01%. You will need to give them a P/N in order to get
a quote. The best thing to do, is ask them to send you the data sheets on
the bulk metal foil resistor products. The booklet shows you how to form the
P/N for the resistor that you want, and it also has a lot of good
information about how these resistors are made, and what makes them so
special.
Regards,
Ivan
Ivan Johnston
Ivan Johnston <i...@pe.net> wrote in message
news:PYHQ3.34359$E_1.1...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com...
>
> chili <xxboo...@cts.com> wrote in message
> news:38132351....@nntp.cts.com...
> > Where do I get the Vishay VSR's?
> >
>
> Last time I bought some was just over 1 year ago. I bought them directly
> from the Vishay Precision Center, in Hagerstown MD (301)739-8722.
Sorry, I think this info may be out of date. It was much more than 1 year
ago when I ordered some of these. If that contact does not work, here is a
link to all of their sales offices. Your best bet is probably the Direct
Sales group in Malvern PA, they would certainly be able to direct you to a
distributor that can help you.
http://buy.vishay.com/CGI-BIN/feeder.pl?txtProducts=Resistors%2C+Foil+Resist
ors%2C+Vishay+Foil+Resistors&txtLocation=Maryland
Regards,
Ivan
James Shearer
Interesting....
I'm just about to replace all my hugely drifted carbon comp resistors
in my old Heathkit, with new carbon film resistors. Wattage variously
0.5W - 2W depending where they are in the circuit. I'll let you know of
any changes in the (currently acceptable) sound.
BTW. I'm amazed that the amp works at all, considering some of the
resistors have drifted by as much as 50% (And some are chipped!)
See Ya.!
--
James Shearer
TubeGarden
Hi RATs,
These are analog audio circuits. It is diificult to get them NOT to work :-)
The fun part is getting them to play, beautifully.
wb0...@prodigy.net
TubeGarden <tubeg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991024180249...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
> >drifted by as much as 50%
>
>
Heathkit always did have the crummiest resistors around. 20%s, most of
them, and I'd betcha almost ALL are out-of-tolerance.
73 John