Why Climategate is so important, was Re: All Scientists Throw Out the Raw Data, Right?
Andre Jute
wrote:
> There's a lot of people who work on
> atmospheric science, ocean temperatures, so on and so forth.
> There are probably a significantly smaller number of
> people who work on historical reconstructions of the
> long term climate record of the specific type that
> Michael Mann and this CRU did (honestly, before this
> scandal, I had never heard of the CRU, which suggests they
> are not as central as it is now fashionable to say, but I am not
> in the field).
It is precisely the centrality of the work of Mann, Jones, Wang and
the other historical climate statisticians that makes their crooked
methods so controversial. You see, Ben, this is what I've been trying
to explain to you, that in the presence of the Medieval Warming Period
and the Little Ice Age in the earth's recent history there can be no
global warming, just a normal uptrend from the LIA with normal
variability around a rising trendline, probably for another century or
two. Until temperatures rise well above those in the MWP -- and we're
a long, long way from there -- there is no cause for alarm.
Global warming only exists because of lies like Michael Mann's hockey
stick, which with statistical dishonesties flattened the Medieval Warm
Period and Little Ice Age out of existence and thus made the decade of
the 1990s look like a sudden uptrend whereas in the historical
perspective it is just another unremarkable variation around a slight
upward slope.
That is why these scientists are so important: because they are the
only ones who can make global warming possible.
You are also wrong about their importance being only recently noticed.
Many of us who object to this sort of statistical crookery have been
saying so for decades. The lie that the MWP and LIA were euro-centric,
which you too told, perhaps because you were misinformed, is given the
lie in every other science. It is only in climatology that Mann and
Jones and the others, with their long-since discredited hockey stick,
find any acceptance at all. And Mann was described as incompetent
before the US Senate under oath by both Wegman and North, who
respectively led two panels of the NAS. (That would have been enough
in any other profession to get him thrown out. But not in
climatology...)
Of course Wegman and even McIntyre only pointed to incompetence but
many of us have long suspected, from the surrounding unscientific
practices and public persecutions, that a conspiracy to cook the
figures was at work behind the scenes. The Climategate e-mails prove
that the crucial hockey stick was not the result of mere statistical
incompetence but something worse: deliberate scientific fraud for a
political cause. More, it proves that the fraud was not confined to
one or two individuals but was endemic in this branch of climatology.
Even worse, it wasn't just endemic, it was the result of a conspiracy.
(Wegman, in his report, already hinted at conspiracy when he discussed
the collusionist "peer review" procedures of this clique. He
identified them by name. We've known all along who the plotters were.
Climategate isn't a revelation, it is merely proof by confession.)
I repeat the point: Without Jones and Mann by statistical tricks
flattening the MWP and the LIA, *there not only is no global warming,
there cannot be global warming for a very long time*.
Without the presumption of global warming, there is no need to look
for a cause for a non-existent problem. Thus there is no need for
policy to control the scapegoat CO2.
This whole charade only works in the presence of a whole raft of
special pleadings for climatology which every other science would and
has rejected with contempt (see Wegman before the Senate, supported by
North). There's the precautionary principle which demands action on
assumptions not subject to proof, there is the rejection of cost-
benefit analysis which allows all kinds of hysterical pressures to
direct policy, there's the continued reliance on totally discredited
work (Jones, Mann, Wang, etc, etc, etc, nauseatingly -- for small
branch of a small science, it sometimes seems as if everyone in it is
a crook) which actually removes the entire basis of the "science" of
global warming for the reasons given above, there is the withholding
of data, the persecution of critics, the bullying false claims of
"consensus" (as if science is decided by vote!), etc, etc, etc --
excuse me while I vomit in disgust. In no real science would this
hysterical crap be permitted.
>However, I don't work on any of this stuff,
> and I do understand some of the physics involved
> (radiative transfer in stratified atmospheres, infrared
> radiation and so on), and so do about a jillion other
> physicists.
Well, of course you do. But if there is no global warming because we
actually live in a cool period (including the 1990s and specifically
including 1998), then the work is of merely academic interest.
> I'm not qualified to write or review
> articles on historical reconstruction of temperatures,
Statistical procedures are common across the sciences. That's how we
caught out Mann, Jones, Wang and other crooks.
> but I can understand the parts of climate science that
> have to do with anthropogenic radiative forcing, and
> it is not going to go away no matter how many pies
> they take in the face in East Anglia.
Once more, unless you can first prove that there is global warming --
and there is prima facie evidence easily understood by the man in the
street that there is none -- you can make all kinds of contortions
about CO2 and it will still be of only academic interest. (There is
also the small problem of CO2 emissions throughout history lagging
temperature rise, not leading it.)
> If I and all the other
> scientists are wrong, it will be quite obvious of order
> 40 years from now, manifesting itself in things like
> changing growing seasons, plant and animal ranges,
> glacier disappearance, and so on.
Oh, crap. These things have changed radically through history, even in
recent history. Human agriculture in the modern form wasn't even
established until the opportunity of the last "global warming" of the
Medieval Warm Period. Perhaps they should give you guys a compulsory
course in economic history before they let you loose on science.
>All of these are happening
> now, I just picked 40 years because there are fluctuations
> on decade-long timescales to average over.
Of course they're happening. They happen all the time. They're
entirely natural. It is hubris of the highest order to attempt to fix
the planet in your image, Ben.
> The fact that Clive Crook is full of doubt now
> reflects the success of climate change skeptics in
> laying down a base of mistrust.
Actually, the big success in turning misinformation into a religion --
witness the agony of the committed like Max Otter who writes here as
Landotter -- was the IPCC's when they made a beneficial gas (CO2) that
is food for plants the bogeyman in an event that didn't even happen
(global warming) and persuaded a frightened populace to spend
trillions on combating it.
>Honestly, it's way too
> hard to organize scientists to do anything even when
> justified, let alone organize a conspiracy of deception.
That bandwagon had powerful incentives, like not being published, like
being seen to buck a much-touted "consensus", like being seen to be a
reactionary, and much more.
More from Ben snipped; he's either got the point by now or he hasn't.
Hope this clarifies the matter for you, Ben.
Andre Jute
Visit Andre's books at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/THE%20WRITER'S%20HOUSE.html
Andre Jute
Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Genesis 1:28
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
living thing that moveth upon the earth."
But I'm afraid, Colesy, that still isn't a license for you and the
rest of the DDT banners to kill 220 million poor people by starvation.
If you're a Catholic, better make sure you have a young priest with a
strong heart when you go to confession. A priest who doesn't have the
heart of an ox might fall down dead of shock when he hears of the
crimes you've committed out of overweening pride that you know better
what is good for everyone else than they do themselves.
Andre Jute
There used to be a better class of social engineering thug around...
PeterD
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Looks like Colesy is getting religion in his old age:
>
>Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Genesis 1:28
>
>"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
>multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
>over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
>living thing that moveth upon the earth."
And mythology has what to do with this?
datakoll
impressive. Once there were trees and now ? Vast areas denewdead for
heat and cooking.
Had several ops to speak with fellow gawkers askinjg: "do you knwo
that once..."? shocked they are. "This was once a forest"?
Monterey Bay has a vry long term that is not since AL Gore study
showing Bay temps rise continuously over time.
Andre Jute
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 10:04:37 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
>
> >Looks like Colesy is getting religion in his old age:
>
> >Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> Genesis 1:28
>
> >"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
> >multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
> >over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
> >living thing that moveth upon the earth."
>
> And mythology has what to do with this?
Well, that was the question. First, Jobst gave us a lot of crap to get
that old testament prophet thing off his chest, then I asked what
connection the link he gave had with his rant, then Colesy, snipping
my question to Jobst to mean something else again, quoted the bible,
then I pointed out to Colesy that the passage he quoted isn't a
license for genocide either by banning DDT or by Global Warming-
inspired restrictions on the growth of the poor countries, now you
come and demand what the third cousin of a bastard branch of the
thread has to do with mythology. Which mythology, pal, global warming
or Christianity or that irrational wishy washy-wishful-world Colesy
lives in? Or even the mythical links in Brandt's mind that persuades
him he's a legend in his own lunchtime (he is, but it doesn't pay for
old men to dwell too much on past glories); in that respect Jobst is
more sane than Colesy, for sure.
Quite so, eh.
Andre Jute
A little precision isn't a bad thing on a tech conference
Peter Cole
> But I'm afraid, Colesy, that still isn't a license for you and the
> rest of the DDT banners to kill 220 million poor people by starvation.
I didn't ban DDT, nor did anybody in America, not for mosquito control,
anyway.
PeterD
New Hampshire was once almost (99%) cleared, farmland. Now it is
mostly forrested. Did you know that?
Andre Jute
This is spelt s-o-p-h-i-s-t-r-y but it smells like pure grade A
bullshit.
First, it is an admission that Americans were responsible for banning
DDT as a crop pesticide. That's a genocide of a couple of hundred
million already, killing poor people by starvation.
Second, Colesy's limp-weasel excuse makes American guilt worse. If it
had been one or more Americans specifically banning DDT for mosquito
control, we could have put him or them in the dock in The Hague for
crimes against humanity, to wit a genocide (bigger than Stalin's or
Hitler's or Pol Pot's or Mao's -- yup, a champion genocide all by
itself) by avoidable malaria that could not be avoided once DDT was
banned. And DDT was effectively banned, and it was done by Americans
telling the aid agencies they would cut off their funds if they
permitted DDT to be used.
So, to the charge of genocide against the arrogant American left for
banning DDT for mosquito control, we must add the deceitful means, the
hypocrisy of pretending to kill tens of millions of the poorest people
on earth for their own good, and the dishonesty of the present lying
by the likes of Peter Cole to weasel out of a national shame.
Peter Cole in fact admitted all that as well in our earlier
correspondence when he smugly told us how "we" (meaning the American
people through their elected and appointed representatives) were no
"permitting" poor Africans limited use of DDT for mosquito control,
and preening for congratulations for his humanitarianism. Instead, as
I pointed out, it is a claim that Americans should dispose of the
lives of hundreds of millions elsewhere on the whim of agitators who
knew DDT was not dangerous to humans, and that it would kill at least
tens of millions, but who wanted to show the elected politicians that
street power counted. That is a genuinely petty motive for a genocide
by now amounting to more than 220,000,000 people.
You and all your kind are despicable, Colesy. I've advised you before
not to argue with me on this. The facts are incontrovertible and I
have no pity for the likes of you: I shall put them on the table.
Not a single case of DDT-induced cancer in humans was ever proved
before or after DDT was banned, yet that was the reason given for
banning it. The genocide caused by the banning of DDT was just a small
sample of what will happen via the law of unintended consequences if
we blunder ahead with anti-global warming measures which have no
scientific backing whatsoever -- in fact, less justification than the
banning of DDT, an artificial substance, as CO2 is a naturally
occurring gas, in fact the food without which the rainforests will
starve.
Andre Jute
The Earth has a lot of practice looking after itself. It still will
long after Man is gone.
Trevor Wilson
"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:974f0613-f3cf-415f...@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Looks like Colesy is getting religion in his old age:
>
> Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Genesis 1:28
>
> "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
> multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
> over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
> living thing that moveth upon the earth."
**Citing some old book with no scientific credentials makes zero sense. Just
like you and Krueger.
>
> But I'm afraid, Colesy, that still isn't a license for you and the
> rest of the DDT banners to kill 220 million poor people by starvation.
**Idiot. DDT is still in use. It is die to the Darwinian resistance
developed by insects that has all but reduced it's usefulness. It's
deleterious effects on more complex creatures (like humans) have further
restricted it use.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Andre Jute
wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:974f0613-f3cf-415f...@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Looks like Colesy is getting religion in his old age:
>
> > Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> Genesis 1:28
>
> > "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
> > multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
> > over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
> > living thing that moveth upon the earth."
>
> **Citing some old book with no scientific credentials makes zero sense. Just
> like you and Krueger.
Nah, I wouldn't presume to swap biblical texts with Arny; a man's
religion is his own business as long as he practises it only with
other consenting adults, doesn't abuse children or captive snakes, or
try to enforce it on me by any means including bombs (up yours too,
Osama).
But I gave the text from the King James Version of the verse Colesy
referenced so that those barbarbians, like Trevor Wilson for instance,
from unChristian homes would also get it.
> > But I'm afraid, Colesy, that still isn't a license for you and the
> > rest of the DDT banners to kill 220 million poor people by starvation.
>
> **Idiot.
Moi? Noooooo!
>DDT is still in use. It is die to the Darwinian resistance
> developed by insects that has all but reduced it's usefulness. It's
> deleterious effects on more complex creatures (like humans) have further
> restricted it use.
Actually, fellow, DDT was banned because some lefty street corner
agitators wanted to demonstrate their political muscle to the elected
representatives, who despicably caved in to minority group pressure.
But don't let the facts interfere with your self-righteous mouthing-
off, dear Trevor.
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au
All that rage is misdirected, dear Trevor. You aren't bright enough to
want on my side, but there must be some group who wants that much
rage, some charity, abused women perhaps...
Andre Jute
The IPCC -- longest hand job in the history of mass hysteria -- has
now lasted twice as long as the Third Reich
PS: Yo, you AGA boss trolls, this Trevor Wilson pretends to be an amp
mechanic..
datakoll
TWANG BIP BILLY BILLY BOP BOP DULANG DUHLANG
BYLO SELLHI HESMYGUY DUWHADUWHA
AS Ghandi said: "sure is a lotta shit on the road"
Trevor Wilson
> On Dec 13, 9:48 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>
> wrote:
>> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:974f0613-f3cf-415f...@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Looks like Colesy is getting religion in his old age:
>>
>>> Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Genesis 1:28
>>
>>> "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
>>> multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion
>>> over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over
>>> every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
>>
>> **Citing some old book with no scientific credentials makes zero
>> sense. Just like you and Krueger.
>
> Nah, I wouldn't presume to swap biblical texts with Arny; a man's
> religion is his own business as long as he practises it only with
> other consenting adults, doesn't abuse children or captive snakes, or
> try to enforce it on me by any means including bombs (up yours too,
> Osama).
**I would argue that raising one's child by filling that child's head full
of religious claptrap constitutes child abuse. IOW: Any adult who
deliberately introduces religious claptrap to a child should be prosecuted.
After that child reaches legal adult-hood, then they may decide to make
their own mind up about such nonsense.
>
> But I gave the text from the King James Version of the verse Colesy
> referenced so that those barbarbians, like Trevor Wilson for instance,
> from unChristian homes would also get it.
**Nope. Not me. I've read the Bible. As an historical document, it is
pitifully inadequate. As a philosophical one, it is hugely flawed. IOW: It's
usefuleness is severely limited. I waste not one second on it.
>
>>> But I'm afraid, Colesy, that still isn't a license for you and the
>>> rest of the DDT banners to kill 220 million poor people by
>>> starvation.
>>
>> **Idiot.
>
> Moi? Noooooo!
**Qui. Vous.
>
>> DDT is still in use. It is die to the Darwinian resistance
>> developed by insects that has all but reduced it's usefulness. It's
>> deleterious effects on more complex creatures (like humans) have
>> further restricted it use.
>
> Actually, fellow, DDT was banned
**Read this, mon ami (BTW, I have now exhausted my entire knowledge of the
French language):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ddt
"Today, 4-5,000 tonnes of DDT are used each year for the control of malaria
and visceral leishmaniasis, with India being the largest consumer. India,
China, and North Korea are the only countries still producing and exporting
it, and production is reportedly on the rise."
because some lefty street corner
> agitators wanted to demonstrate their political muscle to the elected
> representatives, who despicably caved in to minority group pressure.
> But don't let the facts interfere with your self-righteous mouthing-
> off, dear Trevor.
**I suggest you study some science (gee, where have I heard that before?)
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Andre Jute
wrote:
> I've read the Bible.
> --
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au
And still you turned out to be a hi-fi dealer? Clearly, the Bible
isn't as efficacious in rehabilitating hopeless cases as the myth
assures us.
Tsch, tsch!
Andre Jute
Calvinist. My place is reserved.
Trevor Wilson
Master Betty
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:7onsilF...@mid.individual.net...
<snip>
In St Peter's square, right next to the basilica, there is a billboard for
an Elec. Company in Italy. In the middle there is a obelisk stolen from
Egypt. It goes on....
Jim
Ouroboros Rex
DDT was never banned for malaria abatement. Ever.