MiniDisc vs. CD sound quality ??
Philippe Cocatrix
Hello,
I just bought a SONY MZ-R4ST MD recorder (it's a portable unit with a
docking station for connection to a 'permanent' stereo system).
As I record from CD's onto the MD via the optical digital link, I was naive
enough to believe that the sound quality would be exactly the same on the
MD and the CD.
Surprise, surprise !! When comparing (with both the CD & the MD players
connected to the amplifier via the analogue outputs), the MD sounds
terrible : the sound lacks dynamic and is not clear (sorry, my poor english
does not allow me for a more precise description).
I can see 2 reasons :
1. The MD is crap -
2. As it's a portable unit, the DAC and/or the analogue output circuit is
crap. In this case, if I use the analogue optical output, will the sound
be as good as the original CD ?? If you know of any good and cheap digital
optical -> analogue converter, thanks to let me know.
Any deceptions or good experiences with MD's ?? please let me know.
Philippe.
Renard A Dellafave
In article <01bc2f5a$967f0480$73280180@philippe>,
Philippe Cocatrix <p...@ca.mbn.or.jp> wrote:
>I just bought a SONY MZ-R4ST MD recorder (it's a portable unit with a
>enough to believe that the sound quality would be exactly the same on the
>MD and the CD.
>
part of their advertisment campaign in the USA includes big signs in
Best Buy stores saying "don't just copy your CDs (to tape), _clone_
them to MD!"
That's my biggest problem with MD. Not only can't you clone a CD
because the MD is five times too small (that's OK, ATRAC is probably
just fine), but you can't even clone another MD.
That's just plain unbelievable. They're both digital media, they're
both the same size and format, you'd think in any logical world if
you copied an MD with the digital cable, the copy would be a clone.
But, no, Sony has seen fit to RUIN this potentially excellent format
by adding a gratuitous lack of ability to do a digital copy. No good
technical reasons - they just don't want you to be able to do it.
Frankly, regardless of quality, I can't abide buying into a format
put out by a company with that kind of attitude.
So, yes, MD copies of CDs are not the originals, and further generations
get worse on down the line, just like analog. So much for the Sony
"clone it!" ad campaign. "clone it," that's a laugh, they'll do everythig
in their power to prevent any consumer equipment from being able to do
that.
(all the while paying the artists, get this, 25 cents per CD in royalties
. 25 cents, out of an 18 dollar list price. Hmph. Not that any other
record label does any better.)
Maybe the data MD drives will fix some of this; perhaps they'll at least
be able to clone MD to MD. If not, well, there's always CD-R.
>
Mike Glantz
Philippe Cocatrix wrote:
> Surprise, surprise !! When comparing (with both the CD & the MD players
> connected to the amplifier via the analogue outputs), the MD sounds
> terrible : the sound lacks dynamic and is not clear (sorry, my poor english
> does not allow me for a more precise description).
> I can see 2 reasons :
>
> 1. The MD is crap -
> 2. As it's a portable unit, the DAC and/or the analogue output circuit is
> crap. In this case, if I use the analogue optical output, will the sound
> be as good as the original CD ?? If you know of any good and cheap digital
> optical -> analogue converter, thanks to let me know.
Well, my MZ-R3 doesn't behave like that. Comparison with CD or LP
original is generally indistinguishable. It certainly sounds like
something is wrong. Either with your unit (possible, though not
likely), or with the DAC or analog output section or the -R4ST
in general. Hard to believe, but Sony have managed to do this
sort of thing before. I'm at a loss to know what you might do to
get better output, except use an outboard DAC/analog box, but that
hardly seems like a reasonable thing to have to do with an
expensive recorder.
On the very slight chance that there's something wrong with your
unit, or that maybe you've hooked something up wrong (bad impedance
mismatch, maybe?) why not take the unit back to the dealer, explain
the problem, and ask for some advice? I would hope you've got
nothing to lose by asking.
Wong Boon Hong
On 13 Mar 1997 02:56:57 GMT, "Philippe Cocatrix" <p...@ca.mbn.or.jp>
wrote:
>Surprise, surprise !! When comparing (with both the CD & the MD players
>connected to the amplifier via the analogue outputs), the MD sounds
>terrible : the sound lacks dynamic and is not clear (sorry, my poor english
>does not allow me for a more precise description).
It's no surprise at all....
MD uses compression, and that's a lossy compression!
A CD is able to contain about 650MB of data,
A MD is able to contain about 120MB of data,
to "force" 650MB of data into 120MB of data,
what can you expect?
Scott Yu
In article <33344b6a...@news.singnet.com.sg>, bhw...@singnet.com.sg
(Wong Boon Hong) wrote:
> On 13 Mar 1997 02:56:57 GMT, "Philippe Cocatrix" <p...@ca.mbn.or.jp>
> wrote:
>
> >Surprise, surprise !! When comparing (with both the CD & the MD players
> >connected to the amplifier via the analogue outputs), the MD sounds
> >terrible : the sound lacks dynamic and is not clear (sorry, my poor english
> >does not allow me for a more precise description).
From personal experience: I've got a portable recording unit as
well, and I don't think the output from the analog jacks sounds nearly
as good as some of the ES series MD decks I've had a chance to play with.
(not to mention being of considerably lower voltage) Perhaps you might
try a comparison using an outboard DAC and digital outputs?
> It's no surprise at all....
> MD uses compression, and that's a lossy compression!
> A CD is able to contain about 650MB of data,
> A MD is able to contain about 120MB of data,
> to "force" 650MB of data into 120MB of data,
> what can you expect?
Hmm...lossy compression it is. But have you had a chance to
perform some listening evaluations? Granted some of my 'golden-eared'
friends don't like MD very much, but they did take the time to make
some careful comparisons.
Just a few personal opinions, that's all.
scott yu
scot...@brown.edu
Kosta Kostis
Wong Boon Hong wrote:
> It's no surprise at all....
> MD uses compression, and that's a lossy compression!
> A CD is able to contain about 650MB of data,
> A MD is able to contain about 120MB of data,
> to "force" 650MB of data into 120MB of data,
> what can you expect?
Well, I would have certainly expected less quality, so
SURPRISE: considering the compression my MD sounds great!
Let's face it. MD is made for every day use to replace
cassette tape recorders and walkmen. And it does a very
good job on that for my taste. It sure doesn't affect
the sound any worse than a cassette tape deck at the
same price but it's far easier to use and has a better
signal/noise ratio.
I've just recorded live music using a Sony MZ R-30 and
a simple Vicanco stereo microphone and I was surprised
how good it sounded. I think that technology is worth
the price and that's all I think one can ask for.
And when you can afford at least twice the money, go for
a DAT (which is magnetic tape with sequential access
instead of random access you have on a MD). Most DATs
will sound better and all that but there is no DAT
available for 500,- DM in the stores.
Forget everything before ATRAC 4, though (with few
exceptions). MD was just not "ready to use" before that.
Bye
Kosta
--
kos...@acm.org, ko...@robin.de
Kosta Kostis, Talstr. 25, D-63322 Rödermark, Germany
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kosta/
Mike Page
Wong Boon Hong <bhw...@singnet.com.sg> wrote in article
<33344b6a...@news.singnet.com.sg>...
> On 13 Mar 1997 02:56:57 GMT, "Philippe Cocatrix" <p...@ca.mbn.or.jp>
> wrote:
>
> >Surprise, surprise !! When comparing (with both the CD & the MD
players
> >connected to the amplifier via the analogue outputs), the MD sounds
> >terrible : the sound lacks dynamic and is not clear (sorry, my poor
english
> >does not allow me for a more precise description).
>
> MD uses compression, and that's a lossy compression!
> A CD is able to contain about 650MB of data,
> A MD is able to contain about 120MB of data,
> to "force" 650MB of data into 120MB of data,
> what can you expect?
MD has its uses, and if MPEG is anything to go by, then any half-decent
compression has a future.
I mean, we all use JPEG don't we ? Even now that an _immense_ hard disk
is dirt cheap, we still all use JPEG. I rather think the ATRAC
algorithm has a good future.
Regards,
Mike.
--
=========================
Mike Page
I need a new signature !!
mi...@mpage.demon.co.uk (personal)
mike...@iee.org (business)
http://www.mpage.demon.co.uk (website)
=========================
TSteele 93
<<I mean, we all use JPEG don't we ? Even now that an _immense_ hard disk
is dirt cheap, we still all use JPEG.>>
Yes, but I think this is not because of hard disk storage, but the still
relatively slow speed of telecommunications. If we all had T-1's coming
into our house, compression would lose out to quality. As long as data
must be transmitted at speeds measured in tens-of-thousands of bps, then
compression will be valuable.
-Tom Steele