Speaker Cone Glue?
BOB URZ
speakers.
1) The white glue in the refoam kits looks just like Elmers white
glue. What is it really? Where can you get in in bulk?
2) Speaker gasket glue. What's the best kind of glue to glue the
speakers gaskets back onto the speaker basket?
3) Good source or supplier of recone and refoam parts?
Bob
NSE
Scott Dorsey
Pretty much the #1 supplier of this stuff in the US is Waldom, and
Image Communications can get their rework kits and glues.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Arny Krueger
"BOB URZ" <so...@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:3AF3171E...@inetnebr.com...
> I have a couple of questions on the glue used in reconing and
refoaming
> speakers.
>
> glue. What is it really? Where can you get in in bulk?
Its similar chemically, but sets up more resilient. It's called
"AirFlex 400" and comes from these guys:
http://www.airproducts.com/chemicals/polyadhe.asp
> 2) Speaker gasket glue. What's the best kind of glue to glue the
> speakers gaskets back onto the speaker basket?
See the above.
> 3) Good source or supplier of recone and refoam parts?
I'll leave that to others to answer. Somehow I rarely have the
problem...
GregS
>I have a couple of questions on the glue used in reconing and refoaming
>speakers.
>
>1) The white glue in the refoam kits looks just like Elmers white
> glue. What is it really? Where can you get in in bulk?
It might contain various types. Elmers is the less flexible
type. A type that can actually be painted right over foam
and cloth edges is the more flexable type, and has
a slightly rubbery feel. Vinyl acetate-ethylene emulsion. I knew
of at least one famous driver brand using this stuff from Air Products and
Chemicals. "Airflex 400". I got a free sample from them.
http://www.airproducts.com/
I think the Elmers is a homopolomer vs this monopolomer
or copolomer, I don't know!
greg
Vaughn & Melinda Arthur
> Bob
> NSE
>
jmwilson
My dad reconed a couple of sets of speakers. The glue that came in the kit
didn't all hold. He used Elmers for the rest. It took a few tries but 5 yrs
later it still works.
BOB URZ <so...@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
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Scott Dorsey
>
>My dad reconed a couple of sets of speakers. The glue that came in the kit
>didn't all hold. He used Elmers for the rest. It took a few tries but 5 yrs
>later it still works.
Yup, but are the T-S parameters all still the same? The worry is that using
something like Elmers makes the surround effectively more rigid and raises
the Fs of the driver. How much will it rise? I dunno, and it would be fun
to measure.
Richard D Pierce
Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <9d0s2t$fkd$1...@iac5.navix.net>, jmwilson <jmwi...@alltel.net> wrote:
>>
>>My dad reconed a couple of sets of speakers. The glue that came in the kit
>>didn't all hold. He used Elmers for the rest. It took a few tries but 5 yrs
>>later it still works.
>
>Yup, but are the T-S parameters all still the same? The worry is that using
>something like Elmers makes the surround effectively more rigid and raises
>the Fs of the driver. How much will it rise? I dunno, and it would be fun
>to measure.
The answer is not at all. The glue has little, if any, effect on
the surround compliance, since the surround isn't flexing where
it's glued to begin with. Any variations that might result would
be completely swamped by the variations between individual
samples of surrounds.
--
| Dick Pierce |
| Professional Audio Development |
| 1-781/826-4953 Voice and FAX |
| DPi...@world.std.com |
craig osborn
"Amazing Goop" on the surround it worked very well and I know some reconers
are using it. also check with cerwin vega they have a kit of glues they use.
JEFF
BOB URZ wrote in message <3AF3171E...@inetnebr.com>...
BOB URZ
I am trying to find a good source for more specific parts. The waldom recone
thing is like a limited franchise for an area last time i checked. Most of the
other
places some people mentioned have generic one size fits all type of refoam kits.
Every time i try to call image in get lost in phone system hell. I would like to
find a source to order just the foams in the proper form factor. Then buy some
glue in bulk.
BOB
Scott Dorsey
>What is "amazing goop" and where does one get it?
It's a urethane cement. It's more elastic than contact cement, and it's
less elastic than silicone goo. Ask your local hardware store for
"goop" or "urethane bond."
>
>Every time i try to call image in get lost in phone system hell. I would like to
>find a source to order just the foams in the proper form factor. Then buy some
>glue in bulk.
Image has become this way. They didn't used to be a couple years back,
but they marged with Waldom and everything is in transition, now. Call
up and demand to talk to a supervisor.
Bill Watkins
You are correct re compliance, however the stiffness and
weight of a different cured glue will almost always change
the high-end response where the resistive air load reaches
maximum and remains relatively constant. This occurs where
the diameter of the cone is about 2/3 the wavelength. In
practice the effect is visible in a response plot where the
driver starts it's hi-end rolloff, and the glue affects
continuity from cone-to-surround. This has been addressed
with surrounds thicker on the cone side and with a flexible
bead of adhesive or other material applied to the cone/surround
joint.
BTW, Airflex 400 is one of the adhesives of choice for
dust caps, spider-to-frame, cone-to-surround, and
surround-to-frame.
Bill W.
craig osborn
Patrick Scully
news:9d4597$6a6$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> BOB URZ <so...@inetnebr.com> wrote:
> >What is "amazing goop" and where does one get it?
>
> It's a urethane cement. It's more elastic than contact cement, and it's
> less elastic than silicone goo. Ask your local hardware store for
> "goop" or "urethane bond."
What cone materials will this work on. I have a particular problem getting
something that will work on polypropylene, most of the two pack epoxies and
the evaporative glues just seem to peel off, won't stick at all. I have had
temporary success with mastic compounds - like for sealing around the bath
or trough, because of their "stickiness" but this doesn't retain its
stickiness for long and it is only good for dust caps anyway. What works on
polypropylene for the surround and spider, does anyone have any ideas?
--
regards
Patric Scully
The Sound Man
Richard D Pierce
Well, if you think it's a bitch repairing a couple of PP-based
cones, try manufacturing 10,000 of them a month! :-( One of
polypropylene's advantage is also one of its disadvantages: it's
non-reactivity and thus stability is the result of not having
very many bonding sites left.
Typically, the cone/voice-coil/spider joint is bonded using a
quck setting (or UV catalyzing) high-viscosity resin, and the
neck of the cone and the voice coil are designed such that the
contact area is large and all the forces are shear forces across
a large flat surface. Also, most of the bonding to the spider is
between the spider and the voice coil former, not the cone.
The surround is more problematical: it's largely a tension bond,
where bond strength with polypropylene is the weakest possible.
The solution, which works well, is also not something easily
implemented on a small scale home- or repair-based use.
First, the bond area on the PP is cleaned. Then, the first of a
two-part, anerobic-based adhesive is applied to the cone and
the carrier allowed to evaporated. Then the second part of the
adhesive is applied (often to the surround) and the surround and
cone are clamped together under high pressure and heat to form
the bond (alternatively, a UV-catalyzing adhesive can be used,
and UV applied instead of heat).
In eny case, the secret lies in the choice of somewhat exotic
adhesives, surface preparation and rigid and secure clamping
during the cure process.
Lewis Sharp
JBL`s and ive allways used Evo-stick which is a basic rubber contact
adhesive,and i`ve never had a failure yet. Ive even used it on foam
surrounds, a bit risky I`ll admit but it still worked ( made the foam a bit
flexible but that helped in a way because it got rid of ripples in the foam
where it didnt quite match the slope of the speaker cone). The cone/coil
join is a bit different though, this needs something at bit harder, most
commersial speakers seem to use either something like superglue ( at least
it smells the same when you heat it with a soldering iron, although this
isnt really recommended as it gives off some pretty noxious fumes) or they
use standerd epoxy resin, so Ive generally used the epoxy resin, again on
big high power speakers which have the living daylights thrashed out of them
on a daily basis and the glue has never failed.
Lew
"BOB URZ" <so...@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
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Patrick Scully
--
regards
Patric Scully
The Sound Man
"Richard D Pierce" <DPi...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:GCz4z...@world.std.com...
> In article <3af6...@usenet.per.paradox.net.au>,
> Patrick Scully <soun...@starwon.com.au> wrote:
> >"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
> >news:9d4597$6a6$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> >> BOB URZ <so...@inetnebr.com> wrote:
> >> >What is "amazing goop" and where does one get it?
> Well, if you think it's a bitch repairing a couple of PP-based
> cones, try manufacturing 10,000 of them a month!
So I heard!
> The solution, which works well, is also not something easily
> implemented on a small scale home- or repair-based use.
(Occasional) Repair based, I'm only partly a masochist:-))
Mostly I tell them it cannot be fixed and dump them. Do a good trade in used
ceramic magnets for young fellas who recycle them into jars for paper clips
for pocket money.
> In eny case, the secret lies in the choice of somewhat exotic
> adhesives, surface preparation and rigid and secure clamping
> during the cure process.
I think in futureI will only volunteer to restick dust caps, on the proviso
that it will only be a temporary. BTW, I knew one of the research guys at
Loctite when I lived in Ireland - they have a research place just outside
Dublin. I guess I will look her up and see if they are doing anything in
this area. There are so many things made with this stuff there must be a
market for something that will stick it together without all the drama that
apparently accompanies this task presently.
Thanx for the information, on the ball and to the point as always.
Richard D Pierce
Patrick Scully <soun...@starwon.com.au> wrote:
>"Richard D Pierce" <DPi...@world.std.com> wrote in message
>news:GCz4z...@world.std.com...
>> adhesives, surface preparation and rigid and secure clamping
>> during the cure process.
>
>I think in futureI will only volunteer to restick dust caps, on the proviso
>that it will only be a temporary. BTW, I knew one of the research guys at
>Loctite when I lived in Ireland - they have a research place just outside
>Dublin. I guess I will look her up and see if they are doing anything in
>this area. There are so many things made with this stuff there must be a
>market for something that will stick it together without all the drama that
>apparently accompanies this task presently.
Actually, Loctite is one of the major players in this particular
application. The supply not only the adhesives but the
dispensing equipment as well. I'm not sure if their current
offerings are appropriate for the kind of very small operations
you describe. I've only had experience in a real manufacturing
environment.
Tom Maguire
compounds. This can be a bit costly since often 4 or more
are required and they come in paint cans! This can make
repairs rather expensive for 1 or 2 speakers. I do stuff
like EVX-180s, 604s, 515s and other tight speakers used in
pro apps that are not as cost sensitive as some others.
The speaker reconing business has become very competitive
with the dawn of the internet. Bulk reconers in areas that
does not have NYCs VOC laws or labor rates have prices that
seem reasonable to me.
In the old days "GC Cement" or "Radio TV Service Cement"
held most things. Today, in a pinch try "JB Quick" or
"Locktite Weld" 2 component epoxies for VC / spider / dust
cap joints. They are sold at automotive stores. Another
automotive resource is "3M Super Weatherstrip Adhesive". It
skins over on contact with air so a deft touch is required
to avoid thick glue lines. While I am confident about it's
strength, it is too fast for a cone to surround joint unless
you can drop it in place the very first time or you assemble
the joint wet and wait a long time. There are some thickened
or filled anerobic-based adhesives marketed by 3M, Kodak?
and Loctite which could also be useful.
Speaking of urethanes, I found a white marine adhesive
marketed by 3M at Home Depot. It was very useful on Tectum
and was about $9.00 for a caulking gun tube. This stuff has
a relaxed setup but a tenacious hold! If it does not
dissolve the surround it may be worth a try.
Tom Maguire
TMI Engineering