diy power cord?
Joseph Delvey, Jr.
describes the significant improvements to the performance of his Krell
KSA-50 when he tried a $2k AC cable.
How can an AC cable make such a difference? Does it have to do with
shielding? The arrangement of the conductors?
Has anyone in this NG made a DIY AC cable for their system that was
worth the time, effort and materials? If so, could you share with us
how to approach such a project and suggest possible sources for
materials?
Engineer
>
> I was intrigued by John Atkinson's recent piece in Stereophile where he
> describes the significant improvements to the performance of his Krell
> KSA-50 when he tried a $2k AC cable.
What did he say about all that "less than audio quality" 115 VAC
wire in the walls? What about those cheap breakers in the box?
(We all know the glass screw-in fuses are better sonically...)
Also, what about all that "less than ideal for audio" wire to the
transformer on the pole (or wherever)? Of course, we presume
this transformer was "sonically optimal." (You ask the City and
if you qualify as an audiophile they come and change it, right?)
The problem is, all those philistines still plug their vacuum
cleaners and freezers into it - tut, tut...
> How can an AC cable make such a difference? Does it have to do with
> shielding? The arrangement of the conductors?
Indeed, how?
> Has anyone in this NG made a DIY AC cable for their system that was
> worth the time, effort and materials? If so, could you share with us
> how to approach such a project and suggest possible sources for
> materials?
I'll bet someone has - probably rewired his house, too!
Cheers,
Roger
--
Roger Jones, P.Eng.
Thornhill, Ontario,
Canada
E-mail: LandR...@sprint.ca
also: Roger...@ieee.org
----------------------------------
"29 years in Quebec - took the freedom train"
schatzie
all the little birdies. Gotta look at the "system" which doesn't begin at
the wall receptacle.
Really, if you drive around our town, in plushest NJ, with the a.m. radio
slightly mistuned, you begin to realize that the largest RFI generator is
Jersey Central Power and Light.
"Joseph Delvey, Jr." <jde...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3BD600CC...@home.com...
Arny Krueger
where he
> describes the significant improvements to the performance of his
Krell
> KSA-50 when he tried a $2k AC cable.
> How can an AC cable make such a difference?
The difference is no doubt imaginary. This is Stereophile, the home
of the oft-deconstructed "Listener's Manifesto", and the sworn enemy
of reliable listening tests.
>Does it have to do with shielding? The arrangement of the
conductors?
Does it have to do with the advertisers, which includes stereo shops
that find vastly overpriced cables to be a safe harbor for profits in
a time of rigorous competition?
> Has anyone in this NG made a DIY AC cable for their system that was
> worth the time, effort and materials?
Let's put it this way. I've bought used equipment with a DIY AC cable
and spent the time and money to restore it to something professional
and workmanlike.
>If so, could you share with us
> how to approach such a project and suggest possible sources for
> materials?
I recommend that people find out what matters sonically and what
doesn't. You can start your investigations at www.pcabx.com .
Howard Ferstler
>
> I was intrigued by John Atkinson's recent piece in Stereophile where he
> describes the significant improvements to the performance of his Krell
> KSA-50 when he tried a $2k AC cable.
I recently auditioned a $400 power cable for a report in The
Sensible Sound. To cut to the quick, it did not do a damned
thing that any standard power cord could not also do.
Super-duper power cords are nothing more than a way for con
artists to separate you from your money, and the existence
of companies that make such items is a disgrace to the audio
business. Of course, maybe you need to drop two grand on a
power cord and $400 simply will not do the trick.
> How can an AC cable make such a difference? Does it have to do with
> shielding? The arrangement of the conductors?
The cable I checked out was shielded, and (in addition to
sending it off to an engineer to check out seriously) I used
a common AC wire locator to determine that the shielding did
reduce the amount of magnetic-field energy emitted by the
wire. However, unless you are experiencing hum in your
system that is somehow coming from your power cord, it makes
no sense to invest in a shielded version. As for the cord
blocking noise coming into the system via the AC line, it is
hard to see how four feet of shielded wire could make any
difference when there are dozens of feet of unshielded wire
leading up to your AC wall outlet. A wire can only block RF
impinging on it, and it cannot have any impact on the
quality of the AC energy coming from upstream.
> Has anyone in this NG made a DIY AC cable for their system that was
> worth the time, effort and materials? If so, could you share with us
> how to approach such a project and suggest possible sources for
> materials?
Try using the wires that came with your hardware. The
engineers who designed that stuff would be crazy to supply a
power cord that compromised performance.
Howard Ferstler
cjt & trefoil
StuWelwood
>Date: 10/23/01 5:42 PM Mountain Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3BD600CC...@home.com>
Absolutely ludicrous! I would throw out the magazine and forget about it.
Stuart Welwood
http://members.aol.com/StuWelwood
auplater
At least you'd then be able to see where you wasted your hard
earned cash.
I understand Atkinson is planning a future issue to investigate
the sonic benefits of new high end knob faces, buttons, switch
handles, and, of course, indicator lights, as compared to those
bourgoise stock items that adorn the equipment we all love to
hate.
I can't wait....
Arny Krueger
"auplater" <aupl...@technologist.com> wrote in message
news:3BD6D2C1...@technologist.com...
> A better "tweak" would be to replace the knobs on your stereo.
> At least you'd then be able to see where you wasted your hard
> earned cash.
> I understand Atkinson is planning a future issue to investigate
> the sonic benefits of new high end knob faces, buttons, switch
> handles, and, of course, indicator lights, as compared to those
> bourgeoisie stock items that adorn the equipment we all love to
> hate.
> I can't wait....
Could we write the text of a review of the sound quality inherent in
various sizes and products from various manufacturers of LED
indicators right now?
Paraphrasing from http://www.stereophile.com/fullarchives.cgi?280
"As good as the unit with the red T 1 3/4 LED sounded, it was no
match for the $15k Levinson's. For a more relevant check, I did some
level-matched comparisons using the unit with unit with the red LED's
digital output to drive the $450 Musical Fidelity X-24K D/A, which I
reviewed in February 1999. On some live 24/96 drum recordings, the
differences were very small: the unit with the red LED 's bass was
fuller and more extended, the MF's perhaps better-defined. On my
hi-rez piano masters, the differences in sonic character were more
apparent. The distinction in the bass remained the same, though I
would give the edge in LF solidity to the unit with the red T 1 3/4
LED, the Musical Fidelity having a somewhat exaggerated upper bass."
;-)
Richard D Pierce
>>describes the significant improvements to the performance of his Krell
>>KSA-50 when he tried a $2k AC cable.
>>
>>How can an AC cable make such a difference? Does it have to do with
>>shielding? The arrangement of the conductors?
>>
>>Has anyone in this NG made a DIY AC cable for their system that was
>>worth the time, effort and materials? If so, could you share with us
>>how to approach such a project and suggest possible sources for
>>materials?
Rather than dismiss the notion outright or event resort to
ridicule as a knee-jerk reaction, let's explore the implications
of the claim.
Here we have an expensive power amp. In that power amp, we have
a power supply, one of whose PRIMARY functions is to isolate the
internal audio signal from intereference coming in on the line
by whatever mechanism. It's job is to supply interference free
DC power to the rest of the circuitry.
Further, that circuitry itself should be designed to reject all
interference coming in on the power (check out what "power
supply rejection" is).
Now, BOTH these jobs are issues that have been THOROUGHLY solved
in other industries. For example, in the biomedical field, you
are dealing with signal levels that are FAR more fragile than
those found in audio. See what the signal levels for EEG or ECG
are. These sorts of applications do not seem to suffer from the
problems that $2,000 AC cable is required to solve. And, you can
rest assured that if the biomedical equipment manufacturers
could sell $2,000 cables they would. The annual technology
budget of a couple of big-city techning hospitals is likely to
exceed that of the ENTIRE high-end audio industry.
Be that as it may, what does the finding that a $2,000 audio
cable makes a significant difference suggest? Well, I would
offer two answers:
1. That the power supply and the rest of the audio circuitry
of the equipment is so POORLY designed that it is
extraordinarily sensitive to external influences, enough
so that simply a power cord change makes a difference.
2. That the changes perceived are not as a result of any
changes in the SOUND of the unit, but due to other
influences.
And, really, you don't have a whole bunch of alternatives. The
ONLY way a REAL audible difference could result is if the power
supply is NOT doing its job (and it's an easy job at that) OR
there were no real audible differences.
And others might come back with the argument that there MUST be
a difference, and if none is heard, it must be becuas ethe
equipment is not "good" enough" for the difference to be heard.
Unfortunately for such claimants, by the first argument, the
only equipment "good" enough to show the difference MUST be BAD
enough to have lousy power supply rejection.
In order of increasing fidelity and musical enjoyment, that same
$2,000 that will be used to line someone's pocket can be put to
the following good use for your listening enjoyment:
1. $2,000 will buy some AWFULLY good speakers, and the
differences in speakers audibly is FAR greater than
ANY differences due to power cables.
2. $2,000 will buy some pretty significant improvements
to your listening room, a source of SUBSTANTIAL audible
problems
3. $2,000 will buy a LOT of new and interesting CD's or
LP's, introducing you to new music or performances that
you may be totally unaware of now.
4. $2,000 will buy you admission to some VERY good musical
events, where AC power cords and all the rest of the
high-end audio industry's tripe and nonsense are put
in their proper context: as witchcraft, hokum, bunk and
the product of snake oil merchants and their lackies.
And if none of that seems like it's reasonable, keep half of it,
send the rest to me, so I can buy the new hi-res photo-printer I
want :-)
--
| Dick Pierce |
| Professional Audio Development |
| 1-781/826-4953 Voice and FAX |
| DPi...@world.std.com |
Stewart Pinkerton
>"As good as the unit with the red T 1 3/4 LED sounded, it was no
>match for the $15k Levinson's. For a more relevant check, I did some
>level-matched comparisons using the unit with unit with the red LED's
>digital output to drive the $450 Musical Fidelity X-24K D/A, which I
>reviewed in February 1999. On some live 24/96 drum recordings, the
>differences were very small: the unit with the red LED 's bass was
>fuller and more extended, the MF's perhaps better-defined. On my
>hi-rez piano masters, the differences in sonic character were more
>apparent. The distinction in the bass remained the same, though I
>would give the edge in LF solidity to the unit with the red T 1 3/4
>LED, the Musical Fidelity having a somewhat exaggerated upper bass."
This is utter nonsense! While those old-fashioned red LEDs may be all
right for the putzes at Mark Levinson, any *real* audiophile is well
aware that blue LEDs greatly enhance the resolving power of your
system.
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Joseph Delvey, Jr.
plugs?
Thanks for your interest and response!
Don Pearce
Specifically, they are more dimensional.
d
_____________________________
Telecommunications consultant
http://www.pearce.uk.com
Murray Peterson
If you (or anyone) has such a poor power supply in their amp, then a simple
shielded power cord is unlikely to be sufficient. May I suggest that you
do one of several things:
1. Buy an amp which has a properly designed power supply which rejects the
interference coming in from the power line. Any $200 amp should do the job
:-)
2. If you really want to improve your power quality, do it properly -- go
out and buy a motor-generator set for the circuits of interest in your
house, and run shielded wire from the MG set to you amp:
http://www.stevenselectric.com/gen_setsn.htm.
(This is a silly suggestion, but it's fun to take the entire subject to its
"logical" conclusion. While you are at it, you should probably shield your
entire amp as well :-)
3. Find something that will provide you with some real, measurable
improvement in your sound. Anecdotal testimonials from magazine
editors/writers shouldn't be confused with "reality" (unless you want to
start buying some really weird things to "improve" your sound).
--
Murray Peterson
Email: murray_...@home.com (remove underscore)
URL: http://members.shaw.ca/murraypeterson/
Howard Ferstler
Hah! Wait until you here this. I have a Rane THX-22
equalizer in my main system that has a blue, power-on LED.
However, it is just too damned bright, compared to all the
green and red LEDs on my other gear. So, I took a black-ink
marker and used it to slightly reduce the amount of light
from that LED, and wouldn't you know it, the result was an
overall improvement in audible depth and focus from the two
main channels. In addition (trust me on this), I also
noticed that the picture on my video projector was improved.
Consequently, I'm thinking of going into the black-ink
marker business.
Howard Ferstler
auplater
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> This is utter nonsense! While those old-fashioned red LEDs may be all
> right for the putzes at Mark Levinson, any *real* audiophile is well
> aware that blue LEDs greatly enhance the resolving power of your
> system.
>
> --
>
> Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Actually, the multi-colored leds available from ratshack far surpass those
"other" types, wrt imaging, spectral content, dynamic range, just about
any spec you'd care to measure outside of the often hyped "resolution"
mantra.
As my system has all manner of colors available (orange, green, yellow,
red, puce, indigo, blue) lights, all blinking at various rates depending
on what they're monitoring <g>, I'm trying to figure out how to do a
double blind test to see if changing their colours <sic> would make a
difference in the sound. Trouble is, if I can't see them, how do I know if
one combination is better than the other? Maybe if I wear earplugs and
watch, that would somehow make the test valid? sort of a double deaf
test....
Joseph Delvey, Jr.
issue you mentioned as well, but I don't have it handy.
Duncan Verheijde
[snip]
> Here we have an expensive power amp. In that power amp, we have
> a power supply, one of whose PRIMARY functions is to isolate the
> internal audio signal from intereference coming in on the line
> by whatever mechanism. It's job is to supply interference free
> DC power to the rest of the circuitry.
>
> Further, that circuitry itself should be designed to reject all
> interference coming in on the power (check out what "power
> supply rejection" is).
>
> Now, BOTH these jobs are issues that have been THOROUGHLY solved
> in other industries. For example, in the biomedical field, you
> are dealing with signal levels that are FAR more fragile than
> those found in audio. See what the signal levels for EEG or ECG
> are. These sorts of applications do not seem to suffer from the
> problems that $2,000 AC cable is required to solve. And, you can
> rest assured that if the biomedical equipment manufacturers
> could sell $2,000 cables they would. The annual technology
> budget of a couple of big-city techning hospitals is likely to
> exceed that of the ENTIRE high-end audio industry.
I would like to confirm your statement mr. Pierce. Since my daily job is
being an EE at a research institute where scientists are playing with
boundaries of physics, I can promise everyone that we do NOT solve noise
problems with fancy $2000 powercords.
And still we can operate one of the fastest STMs (scanning tunneling
microscope) where current fluctuations of some picoamps at almost DC..100kHz
can be measured while some rooms further a Terawatt femtosecond laser is
messing up the mains voltage and radiates a lot more than just light.
Best regards,
Duncan
Duncan Verheijde
> Could we write the text of a review of the sound quality inherent in
> various sizes and products from various manufacturers of LED
> indicators right now?
>
> Paraphrasing from http://www.stereophile.com/fullarchives.cgi?280
>
> "As good as the unit with the red T 1 3/4 LED sounded
How can this unit sound ok?? Since we all know that electrons are
blue, its very likely there would be a huge improvement it the LED
was replaced by a blue one :-))
Michael R. Kesti
>I would like to confirm your statement mr. Pierce. Since my daily job is
>being an EE at a research institute where scientists are playing with
>boundaries of physics, I can promise everyone that we do NOT solve noise
>problems with fancy $2000 powercords.
Yes, but this is AUDIO, man!
;-)
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mke...@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Tomi Holger Engdahl
> I was intrigued by John Atkinson's recent piece in Stereophile where he
> describes the significant improvements to the performance of his Krell
> KSA-50 when he tried a $2k AC cable.
>
> How can an AC cable make such a difference?
Most propably not. It is very strange that changint the last meter
of the power cord to other wire type would have a radical effect
on the mains power supply which has easily tens of meters of
cable from main distribution panel to the device inside walls
(and even more form distribution panel to nearest distribution
amplifier).
> Does it have to do with shielding?
In some very rare cases shielding on power cords could have
some positive effect on sound. In case you have very strong
electromagneti fields around your device (nearby radio
transmitter or some electric noise source) or your audio
cables pick up mains interference from power cord
(poorly shielded audio cables too near power cord).
> The arrangement of the conductors?
Most propably nothign you could hear... The standard power cord
arrangement is pretty optimal form mains power distribution,,,
> Has anyone in this NG made a DIY AC cable for their system that was
> worth the time, effort and materials?
I have made some DIY power cords for various needed.
Usually reasons have been that I have needed longer or shorter
than the original one and I have not had anythign ready
made suitable at my hands (but components easily available
on my electronics lab at home). I have never built any
"optimal form" mains cable for better sound quality in
my mind. There is no sound quality difference between proper
"normal" power cord or some special power cord I have
heard...
> If so, could you share with us
> how to approach such a project and suggest possible sources for
> materials?
I have used the local shops which sell electronics components
(they hae also selection of cables) and shops which sell
electrical accessories (hardware store, warehouses etc.).
Wherever you go get good quality mains connectors and
select a cable rated for mains power cord application.
This means that cord has enough current carrying capacity
(enough copper thickness to withstand even short circuit
for the time for the mains fuse to blow), good
enough insulation for the mains votlages + overvoltages
and good enough mechanical construction to withstand use.
Then build the cable correctly. Those are essential
thing to make a good and safe mains cable. If you do not
think you can do this for sure safely, Play safe
and buy ready made cables on the price range you
think is reasonable for your needs...(I would not pay
much premium for the look of the exotic cable..)
--
Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/)
Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at
http://www.epanorama.net/
Joseph Delvey, Jr.
Thanks for your reply. I dug out an old Parts Express Catalog,
which, yes, gives me many good options! I live in a suburban area with
lots of RFI, so much so that people complain that their garage door
openers don't work reliably, probably because of the interference. So,
although I would never consider spending $2K for a power cord, and agree
with the members of the NG that such a large sum of money could be put
to better use, I think it would be a fun project to spend maybe $40-60
to see what kind of improvement I might get.
Joe
Alex Rodriguez
When there is $2k less in your wallet you sit in a more comfortable
position and everthing sounds better. :) :) :)
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)
Mike Coatham
"Alex Rodriguez" <ad...@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:9r9e17$arl$5...@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...
> position and everthing sounds better. :) :) :)
> -----------------
cockpit on their jumbo jets??? ..............To allow headroom for the
pilots when they're sitting on their wallets :)
Martin Westerman
LOL. This just about sums it all up: double blind tests are a waste
of time for a subjectivist wanting to know which item looks the best.
BRs,
Martin
Martin Westerman
Hydroelectric and wave power ones are green, coal ones glow red,
natural gas ones are transparent but have a slightly funny smell.
Yellow electrons are, of course, produced from solar power.
So the optimum-sounding LED colour (and insulation on cables, carpet,
etc.) depends upon your local power stations.
;-)
Martin
GregS
I like using blue LED's on my homebrew equipment. Some will even
draw you into another demension. Red lights were used on some
older equipment, but power lights were never to be used on NASA
equipment for anything but warning lights. Then LED's came out, which
were mostly red, and everything changed.
Oh, many medical research labs here, you will find aluminum foil
wrapped around power cords, and other things. I don't think its very safe,
but it may improve you power cord, what, for a couple cents! With
all the plastic encased equipment these days, it may also electrostatically
shield the equipment also. You could use gold foil and make your system
resemble a moon probe.
greg
auplater
GregS wrote:
> You could use gold foil and make your system
> resemble a moon probe.
>
> greg
great idea!! I think I'll electroplate all of my power cords and interconnects with 24K
gold. Or maybe use gold for the power cords, silver for the interconnects, and technetium
for the speaker cords (the radioactivity should brighten the sound, don't you think?)
auplater
Dave Platt
>> resemble a moon probe.
Better be careful with that. If you do that, you may find that the
system will only play music videos showing Michael Jackson
doing a moon-walk.
That would be, as they say, Really Bad.
--
Dave Platt dpl...@radagast.org
Visit the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior/
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Dale Farmer
Murray Peterson wrote:
For that full, natural sound, only water power is sufficient. For the
best power, you should have fully shielded wires from the generator
to the sound system. Buy an old mill building that still has functional
water power systems. Repair the water wheel using only local
hardwoods, or if you have enough rescues, redwood. Metal water
wheels will induce unwanted magnetic fields into the power stream.
Get a new generator, preferably from a german company, as they
epitomize obsessive-compulsive engineering, and you get a nice looking
housing as well. Run heavy gauge cable from your generator to the
outlet next to your audio system. Don't put in a circuit breaker or fuse,
as these will cause resistance in your system. The cable should also be
triple shielded, a foil shield on the inner, a 95% woven braid of oxygen
free copper as the second, and the whole thing in a conduit system made
of mu metal. The inner shield gets grounded to the generator housing,
there is a terminal labeled grundig and is color coded green. The braid
shield gets connected to the building ground system. The mu-metal
conduit also get grounded to the building and the generator. If you can
afford it, silver plated braided oxygen free copper cables are preferred,
the larger the better.
For the power outlets you should only use gold or platinum plated
contacts. When the electrician tell you that they don't exist, he is wrong,
he just doesn't want to go looking for them. The face plates should also
be gold plated mu-metal, to complete the magnetic enclosure of the
conduit system. Ensure that they touch all the way around the outlet box,
as the smallest crack will allow the magnetic field to leak in.
Use only the highest priced, shielded power cords to connect your
equipment to the wall plug. We have yet to find a manufacturer who
makes a triple mu-metal shield flexible power cord, but we entertain
hopes that one will be offered soon. Until that time you will have to
settle for the lesser alternatives that are only double shielded. Use the
cords that are just long enough to reach your equipment, and position
your equipment to use the shortest possible cords. Any excess length
will pick up more interference from the environment.
We hope that this little guideline will help you waste your money in
the best way possible, The Audiophile Sound. Enjoy.
--Dale
Murray Peterson
news:3BDC8B4D...@cybercom.net:
> For that full, natural sound, only water power is sufficient.
> [snip]
I guess I can't be a true audiophile then -- the nearest river is too far
away for me to even contemplate a water power setup :-)
> We hope that this little guideline will help you waste your money in
> the best way possible, The Audiophile Sound. Enjoy.
You forgot to mention the speaker cables -- I have my power amps right
behind each speaker, so I need at least one inch of speaker cord. How
about a one inch thick busbar of pure silver? Or is that too mundane? :-)