DIY LS3/5A's
Jonny Durango
decided to utilize the vast amounts of information and documentation on the
internet regarding how to build your own pair (mainly from www.ls35a.com). I
am an amateur guitarbuilder so construction should be no problem.
My question, I have a pair of 8 ohm KEF B110's (sp1003) and a matching pair
of KEF 8 ohm T27's (sp1032) pulled from a pair of 80's Fried Model B
monitors. I cannot find any useful info about this specific model and I need
to decide on what type of crossover to use. As I understand there was a
different crossover used after 1987 when manufacturing switched to KEF.
Should I use one of the newer crossovers, or the older pre-87 crossovers for
these speakers or does it even matter? btw, I cannot afford the cicable
external crossover (at £600)....all help is GREATLY appreciated. Thankyou!
--
Jonny Durango
http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after
WWII.
Jonny Durango
pair
> >of KEF 8 ohm T27's (sp1032) pulled from a pair of 80's Fried Model B
> >monitors.
>
Dynaudio
> D21.
actually I think you're right....the seller said they were removed from a
pair of 1980's Fried monitors but it couldn't be the model B's
>
> >I cannot find any useful info about this specific model and I need
> >to decide on what type of crossover to use.
>
> Contact Falcon in the UK, they used to build xovers for various BBC
> licensees, still have all circuit boards, components and schematics.
>
> Here's their current price list for relevant xovers:
>
> "100. LS3/5
>
> Type Ferrite and polyester version with tapped HF inductor for original
> units, B110-A6362 & B110-A6340. With cabinet construction details.
> BBC type FL6/16. PCB7 £28.00
>
> 101. LS3/5A
> Type To New spec for new units. I.D./Ferrite/AC and Solen Polypropylene
> caps. Resistor ladder attenuation for tweeter attenuation. Suggested
layout
> included. Components only (2 LS) £63.00
>
> 101T LS3/5A
> Type As 101 but with tapped HF inductor and matching tap capacitors.
> Components only (2 LS) £70.00
>
> 102 LS3/5A
> Type FL6/23 (B110 SP1003/T27 SP1032) I.D Inductors and Polypropylene
Caps.
> Tapped HF auto-transformer type I.D. Inductor and matching caps.
Components
> only (2 LS) P.O.A.
>
> http://www.falcon-acoustics.co.uk/
>
> More info is available in the "LS3/5-LS3/5A" section at the bottom of
> http://www.falcon-acoustics.co.uk/hintstipsgeneral.htm
This is VERY HELPFUL....thanks a ton, I check out their site and found tons
of crossovers for reasonable prices!
>
> >As I understand there was a
> >different crossover used after 1987 when manufacturing switched to KEF.
>
> Manufacturing didn't switch to Kef. The Beeb redeigned the LS3/5A using
> update components and simplifying the xover.
>
> >Should I use one of the newer crossovers, or the older pre-87 crossovers
for
> >these speakers or does it even matter?
>
> It does matter... Just check the exact drivers you've got and get the
right
> xover for them.
I did some more research and it appears they are from the KEF Constructor
series (CS1)...I don't know why the seller said they were from a pair of
Fried's....mybe they were modified Frieds? (modiFrieds, hehe)....they came
with templates and brochures and manuals and different crossover
reccomendations for different speakers. They recommend an sp1017 type
crossover for a b110/t27 combo, so I can only assume that if these papers
originally came with these speakers, then I should use a 1017 crossover.
This may have solved the problem, although if you have any more suggestions
I'm all ears! Thanks!!
--
Jonny Durango
http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after
WWII.
"François Yves Le Gal" <fle...@aingeal.com> wrote in message
news:qm9e7095mhere2v3n...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:20:30 GMT, "Jonny Durango"
> <jonnybush_from...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >My question, I have a pair of 8 ohm KEF B110's (sp1003) and a matching
pair
> >of KEF 8 ohm T27's (sp1032) pulled from a pair of 80's Fried Model B
> >monitors.
>
> If I remember correctly, the Fried Model B used a B110 SP1057 and a
Dynaudio
> D21.
>
> >I cannot find any useful info about this specific model and I need
> >to decide on what type of crossover to use.
>
> Contact Falcon in the UK, they used to build xovers for various BBC
> licensees, still have all circuit boards, components and schematics.
>
> Here's their current price list for relevant xovers:
>
> "100. LS3/5
>
> Type Ferrite and polyester version with tapped HF inductor for original
> units, B110-A6362 & B110-A6340. With cabinet construction details.
> BBC type FL6/16. PCB7 £28.00
>
> 101. LS3/5A
> Type To New spec for new units. I.D./Ferrite/AC and Solen Polypropylene
> caps. Resistor ladder attenuation for tweeter attenuation. Suggested
layout
> included. Components only (2 LS) £63.00
>
> 101T LS3/5A
> Type As 101 but with tapped HF inductor and matching tap capacitors.
> Components only (2 LS) £70.00
>
> 102 LS3/5A
> Type FL6/23 (B110 SP1003/T27 SP1032) I.D Inductors and Polypropylene
Caps.
> Tapped HF auto-transformer type I.D. Inductor and matching caps.
Components
> only (2 LS) P.O.A.
>
> http://www.falcon-acoustics.co.uk/
>
> More info is available in the "LS3/5-LS3/5A" section at the bottom of
> http://www.falcon-acoustics.co.uk/hintstipsgeneral.htm
>
> >As I understand there was a
> >different crossover used after 1987 when manufacturing switched to KEF.
>
> Manufacturing didn't switch to Kef. The Beeb redeigned the LS3/5A using
> update components and simplifying the xover.
>
> >Should I use one of the newer crossovers, or the older pre-87 crossovers
for
> >these speakers or does it even matter?
>
> It does matter... Just check the exact drivers you've got and get the
right
> xover for them.
>
>
John Walton
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ls35a/
"Jonny Durango" <jonnybush_from...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:X9Kdc.104044$gA5.1394690@attbi_s03...
Jonny Durango
> >crossover for a b110/t27 combo
>
> Cresta, is designed for the B110A SP1003.
First of all I'd like to say THANKYOU very much for all the help you've
offered. I'm amazed at how much you know about these speakers and very
frateful for the advice! Anyway, I've definately got a pair of B110A
(sp1003) and T27 (sp1032)....here's the crossovers that falcon acoustics
lists for this combo:
3.
B110A/T27A (equiv.to DN13 SP1017 used in KEF Cresta II)
(PCB2)
£13.50
23.
LS3/5A type crossover.
B110A/T27A Complete network, similar in all essential details to the LS3/5A
but with ferrite inductors and resistive HF attenuation. Complete with
recommended cabinet drawings.
(PCB7)
£26.00
23aB.
LS3/5A type crossover. Speaker Builder 4/81.
As 23 but with KEF aB tweeter section.
(PCB7)
£29.00
23T.
LS3/5A type crossover.
See also No.102
B110A/T27A Complete network, similar in all essential details to the LS3/5A
but with ferrite inductors and tapped HF ferrite inductor and matching set
of HF capacitors. Complete with recommended cabinet drawings.
(PCB7)
£29.50
I have no idea what an "aB tweeter section" is, but someone else mentioned
I'd need a multitap inductor (also have no idea what that is), which seems
to be included in the last one listed (23T). Well, obviously you know a
million times more about this stuff that I do, so what do you reccomend?
>
> More info :
> http://www.allansonline.com/Anatomy/Crossovers/AnatomyCrossovers.html
Thanks a million man! I really do appreciate the help here. As you can see
I'm pretty clueless about speakers so this really helps me a lot! Cheers!
--
Jonny Durango
http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after
WWII.
"François Yves Le Gal" <fle...@aingeal.com> wrote in message
news:76sf70prb97fh6jdn...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 03:50:15 GMT, "Jonny Durango"
> <jonnybush_from...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >the seller said they were removed from a
> >pair of 1980's Fried monitors but it couldn't be the model B's
>
> I don't remember any model using T27's. Bud Fried either fitted Hiquphon
or
> Dynaudio tweeters.
>
> >I did some more research and it appears they are from the KEF Constructor
> >series (CS1)...
>
> If the reference is CS1, you've got a B110B SP1057 and a T27A SP1032.
>
> If the reference is CS1A (note the "A"), you've got a B110A SP1003 and a
> T27A SP1032.
>
> >They recommend an sp1017 type
> >crossover for a b110/t27 combo
>
> Nope, only if you've got a CS1A. The SP1017, originally used in the Kef
> Cresta, is designed for the B110A SP1003.
>
> The B110B SP1057 shows quite a different response in the midrange and
should
> be filtered accordingly.
>
> Anyway, you should use a CS1(A) xover, available from Falcon Acoustics.
>
> More info :
> http://www.allansonline.com/Anatomy/Crossovers/AnatomyCrossovers.html
>
>
TonyP
"Jonny Durango" <jonnybush_from...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:X9Kdc.104044$gA5.1394690@attbi_s03...
> series (CS1)...I don't know why the seller said they were from a pair of
> Fried's....mybe they were modified Frieds? (modiFrieds, hehe)....they came
> with templates and brochures and manuals and different crossover
> reccomendations for different speakers. They recommend an sp1017 type
> crossover for a b110/t27 combo, so I can only assume that if these papers
> originally came with these speakers, then I should use a 1017 crossover.
> This may have solved the problem, although if you have any more
suggestions
> I'm all ears! Thanks!!
I can't help but wonder how you came by a CS1 set without the crossovers. I
would see if you can get the original crossovers from where you got the
drivers, before spending large amounts on new crossovers for old drivers.
TonyP.
Jonny Durango
I
I wondered the same thing myself. I thught maybe the original Fried monitors
they were pulled from were, well, fried (ie. blown crossover). I really
don't know.
--
Jonny Durango
http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after
WWII.
"TonyP" <To...@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
news:40791a03$0$438$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Jonny Durango
> > LS3/5A type crossover.
> >See also No.102
> > B110A/T27A Complete network, similar in all essential details to the
LS3/5A
> >but with ferrite inductors and tapped HF ferrite inductor and matching
set
> >of HF capacitors. Complete with recommended cabinet drawings.
> > (PCB7)
> > £29.50
>
> as close as possible to the real thing - you will also have to use the
right
> cabinet materials, damping elements and so on.
Awesome, this is the one I'll use then. Building the cabinet and damping
materials should be no problem. I'm an amateur guitar builder, so this
should be a very simple project relatively. Also, ls35a.com provides tons of
DIY drawings, datasheets, pictures and discussions about how to build
LS3/5A's specifically.
One more question, this is the last one, I promise! =) The description says
"tapped HF ferrite inductor and matching set of HF capacitors." Does this
mean the inductor is already tuned to the HF capacitors, or do I need to
tune it to the drivers themselves somehow? Thanks a million!
--
Jonny Durango
http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after
WWII.
"François Yves Le Gal" <fle...@aingeal.com> wrote in message
news:k1ki705dfp8gg475o...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 07:37:53 GMT, "Jonny Durango"
> <jonnybush_from...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Anyway, I've definately got a pair of B110A
> >(sp1003) and T27 (sp1032)....
>
> OK, then you can build an LS3/5A clone.
> :-)
>
> >here's the crossovers that falcon acoustics
> >lists for this combo:
> >
> >3.
> >B110A/T27A (equiv.to DN13 SP1017 used in KEF Cresta II)
> > (PCB2)
> > £13.50
>
> Not recommended, unless you want to build a Cresta clone.
>
> >23.
> >LS3/5A type crossover.
> > B110A/T27A Complete network, similar in all essential details to the
LS3/5A
> >but with ferrite inductors and resistive HF attenuation. Complete with
> >recommended cabinet drawings.
> > (PCB7)
> > £26.00
>
> New version of the classic xover, but designed for the old drivers combo.
> Could be a good choice if you're on a tight budget, but the finished
speaker
> will be a variation on the LS3/6A theme.
>
> >23aB.
> > LS3/5A type crossover. Speaker Builder 4/81.
> > As 23 but with KEF aB tweeter section.
> > (PCB7)
> > £29.00
>
> The HF section uses a derivative of the high pass filter designed by Kef
for
> their 104AB (AB stands for Acoustic Butterworth). Quite good, with very
> smooth highs and mids, but getting further away from the original design.
>
> > 23T.
> > LS3/5A type crossover.
> >See also No.102
> > B110A/T27A Complete network, similar in all essential details to the
LS3/5A
> >but with ferrite inductors and tapped HF ferrite inductor and matching
set
> >of HF capacitors. Complete with recommended cabinet drawings.
> > (PCB7)
> > £29.50
>
> The real McCoy, Falcon style. The only option if you want to build a clone
> as close as possible to the real thing - you will also have to use the
right
> cabinet materials, damping elements and so on.
>
>
Jonny Durango
Thanks a billion for all your help! It's greatly appreciated!!
--
Jonny Durango
http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the
country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag
the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
-- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after
WWII.
"François Yves Le Gal" <fle...@aingeal.com> wrote in message
news:9p7j70ljn9lp435po...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:15:42 GMT, "Jonny Durango"
> <jonnybush_from...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >The description says
> >"tapped HF ferrite inductor and matching set of HF capacitors." Does this
> >mean the inductor is already tuned to the HF capacitors, or do I need to
> >tune it to the drivers themselves somehow?
>
> You'll need to pick the right tap for your drivers combination.
>
>
TonyP
> > I can't help but wonder how you came by a CS1 set without the
crossovers.
> I
>
> I wondered the same thing myself. I thught maybe the original Fried
monitors
> they were pulled from were, well, fried (ie. blown crossover). I really
> don't know.
I thought we established the Fried Monitor connection was incorrect?
Regardless it's pretty unlikely that anyone could blow up two cross overs
without damage to the drivers. And I can't imagine they would be of use for
anything else.
TonyP.
Michael Squires
TonyP <To...@optus.net.com.au> wrote:
>
>I thought we established the Fried Monitor connection was incorrect?
Fried speakers in the late 70's used KEF drivers, B110 and T2? in the
Model H and the next one down. I assembled a few of them...
The smaller bookshelf speakers used other drivers.
Mike Squires
--
Mike Squires (mikes at cs.indiana.edu) 317 233 9456 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes at siralan.org 546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Richard Crowley
the WWW and it didn't seem too promising.
Geoff Wood
> Are the drivers still available for these? I tried poking around
> the WWW and it didn't seem too promising.
Yes. You can buy brand new BBC-licenced ones too.
www.ls35a.com may have some linkz.
geoff
RdM
A personal tale ... words of a work or works in progress, perhaps;-)
I bought a new pair of SP1057 B110 for NZD$269.19 locally in Feb 01
The cabinets crossovers and tweeters (Philips AD 01600 T8) - the cabinets
heavy and built to LS35A type quality with damping pads et al - came from
the local Salvation Army for $5ea IIRC, with blown B110s. I didn't hesitate.
Maybe they were $10 ea, but I felt the weight and immediately the quality.
They were a local "clone", it appears, badged ARC 1. I'd like more info...
The crossover is a complex affair, 10 caps, 9 inductors, 9 resistors, and
marked Avalon Radio Corp ARC 11/imp. The whole box is a serious design.
I took a punt (having looked up the specs) that they were SP1057 not SP1033.
They were unmarked, and I had that choice. I still don't know. This may seem
extraordinary, but the SP1057 are still in the box and the cabinets
unreassembled. I stripped them to replace the sad binding posts, which
necessitated removing the crossover, having bought new posts, and planned to
refurbish the flaking and cracked black paint on the front, but they got put
aside due to personal circumstances at the time. The only other clue I have
is that a Chris Marquet was responsible for the design ... I have yet to
talk to him, but may have found him ... (I'll make that a new priority!)
However, I also have a full stereo set of B139, B110 SP1003, T27 A6340 and
DN12 crossover from a triangular TL with bad wadding and uninspiring,
probably local, construction that I bought s/h shortly after, which sounded
so bad that I deconstructed it;- presently using the cabinets face down as
speaker stands, (with a cushion beside ea) for a friends pair of Celestion
Ditton 25's, which his wife won't have in the new house, either side of the
TV, while the KEF 104ab's which used to be there have migrated from the
bedroom to above the shelving and cabinets in the kitchen/dining room ...
So I still have a choice of drive units for the ARC's, but hope it's SP1057.
The Ditton 25's are weird in that they go from a 12" and 12" PR to a tweeter
and two "supertweeters", with no midrange, and sound a bit thin cf the Kefs.
My friend fantasises about inserting a 2" dome midrange pair he has ... this
would of course involve a whole new front baffle and crossover redesign ...
we don't really know how to go about this at this point, but may do later.
I thought about somehow improving the bare local TL design, perhaps turning
it "sideways", and/or extending the length, but resources are slim at the
moment and there is plenty of time to consider the possibilities. The coffin
sub design appeals as a possible use of the B139's anyway, which frees up a
pair of SP1003 B110's and the earlier T27's, or perhaps I do do a better TL.
For a while I had a friends JBL Century L100's in the kitchen/dining and
they "changed my life" regarding speakers, in that all I've ever had is 70's
speakers, and I have to admit the 104ab pair doesn't sound so well in the
same position, but they *are* too close to the wall, & high; still, I can't
do without sound in there (here) now, since the kitchen amp is tape-looped
to both the lounge amp and the kitchen computer on which I type this, and
they flank a Commodore 1084 video monitor above the microwave and oven.
I used to have a pair of Philips 8" and tweeter on upside-down home-made
stands from the ceiling in the kitchen, angled down, and they sounded OK.
Actually I still need a replacement single T27 for the 104ab's and while
waiting for a replacement dome from Axent Audio have subbed brutally the T27
A6340's for the original T27 SP1032's ... I'm uncritically used to them now.
Still, I look forward to them moving back to the bedroom and something else!
In the background, I have some 8", mid, and metal dome tweeters from the
Wharfedale Precision series (505, 507, et al) awaiting cabinet construction,
so maybe I can move forward a decade (:=})) - but in the meantime, I am very
interested in this thread ... and when I do reconstruct the ARC 1's, and
hopefully chat with the designer, I will document them and forward the
results to the LS35A site, because I think that they are a fairly close
approximation, despite the oddball Philips tweeters (anyone know where
details of older Philips drivers may be found ?) and deserve recognition ...
Whew! chat !
Look at the loquaciousness a few wines on an empty stomach before a solo
late dinner will bring out! ... still, all & any info! ~ regards, from RdM.
--
nz, not zn!
Geoff Wood
> "Geoff Wood" <ge...@paf.co.nz-nospam> wrote:
>
>> Richard Crowley wrote:
>>> Are the drivers still available for these? I tried poking around
>>> the WWW and it didn't seem too promising.
>>
>> Yes. You can buy brand new BBC-licenced ones too.
>>
>> www.ls35a.com may have some linkz.
>
> A personal tale ... words of a work or works in progress, perhaps;-)
>
> I bought a new pair of SP1057 B110 for NZD$269.19 locally in Feb 01
>
> The cabinets crossovers and tweeters (Philips AD 01600 T8) - the
> cabinets heavy and built to LS35A type quality with damping pads et
> al - came from the local Salvation Army for $5ea IIRC, with blown
> B110s. I didn't hesitate. Maybe they were $10 ea, but I felt the
> weight and immediately the quality.
>
> They were a local "clone", it appears, badged ARC 1. I'd like more
> info...
>
Aha, the old Avalon Arcs. The cabinet on those was a little taller than the
LS35a, and I know there was at least one pair with my cloned LS35a crossover
boards installed. I assume my buddy still has them....
(Yes, a totally non-scientific mod, by him).
> Actually I still need a replacement single T27 for the 104ab's and
> while waiting for a replacement dome from Axent Audio have subbed
> brutally the T27 A6340's for the original T27 SP1032's ... I'm
> uncritically used to them now.
Try Mike Stace at Centrade (in the Wgtn phonebook).
geoff
RdM
: Aha, the old Avalon Arcs. The cabinet on those was a little taller than the
: LS35a, and I know there was at least one pair with my cloned LS35a crossover
: boards installed. I assume my buddy still has them....
:
: (Yes, a totally non-scientific mod, by him).
I'd be interested to hear more about it, and them. Why had you cloned some?
I'd agree that the substitution (by him) would be "un-scientific". Still ...
No accounting for taste, or audiophile ambitions! You heard both versions?
I should and shall draw out the existing xover. Test and measure the caps.
I talked briefly with CM tonight and arranged to ring again this weekend.
Although it's nigh on 30 yrs ago, he may still have the design details.
: > Actually I still need a replacement single T27 for the 104ab's and
: > while waiting for a replacement dome from Axent Audio have subbed
: > brutally the T27 A6340's for the original T27 SP1032's ... I'm
: > uncritically used to them now.
:
: Try Mike Stace at Centrade (in the Wgtn phonebook).
Ta for the info. I haven't talked with Axent in a while now - it's entirely
possible that they've forgotten I wanted one - I'll check both out.
Ross M.