How is your backup regime?

[Les Cargill]

Just a gentle reminder to revisit your backup regime soon...
chances are it's inadequate...

--
Les Cargill

[hank alrich]

I did that last night, ahead of installing new drive in the laptop
today.

And yes, I know a single iteration isn't a secure situation...

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Frank Stearns]

Les Cargill <lcarg...@comcast.com> writes:

>Just a gentle reminder to revisit your backup regime soon...
>chances are it's inadequate...

+1

Not only in the face of equipment loss or failure, but also backups to protect
against "oops" moments in the heat of battle or the fatigue of a long session.

I like to, for example, save multiple versions of PT sessions as we go, such as
mixYourTune_01.ptf, mixYourTune_02.ptf, mixYourTune_03.ptf, etc. The interval isn't
particularly fixed, I'll increment as I feel it or as, say, some milestone has been
achieved in the session.

Just the other day I'd inadvertantly mucked something obscure in the middle of a 250
minute long session file after having been at it way to long. Undo wasn't an option,
because the error happened who knows when and I didn't want to lose all the good
work that'd followed the error, where it hiding.

It was easy to find what had broken by looking back a version or two. Would have
been way harder (with the danger multiplied in that foggy state of mind) to go after
the problem if there was one and only one session file.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--
.

[eth...@ethanwiner.com]

On Tuesday, May 15, 2012 10:21:49 AM UTC-4, Frank Stearns wrote:
> save multiple versions of PT sessions as we go, such as
> mixYourTune_01.ptf, mixYourTune_02.ptf, mixYourTune_03.ptf, etc.

Yes, excellent advice. And not just to protect the current session. Once while working on a big project that spanned many months, I discovered a MIDI track had become corrupted several weeks earlier, in a part of the tune I hadn't played since then. I had to go back 15-20 versions, but I found what I needed and copied it into the current version. I can easily get up to version 50 or even 100 on a big project. Session files are tiny compared to audio and video data, so there's no reason not to save multiple versions.

I also rotate backups among multiple drives, including two drives I store with friends. One day I backup to one drive, the next day to another, and so forth. This avoids overwriting your only good backup with a file that was corrupted but you didn't know it.

--Ethan

[geoff]

Les Cargill wrote:
> Just a gentle reminder to revisit your backup regime soon...
> chances are it's inadequate...

Sounds like you might have just had a 'reminder experience' ?

geoff

[Mxsmanic]

hank alrich writes:

> I did that last night, ahead of installing new drive in the laptop
> today.
>
> And yes, I know a single iteration isn't a secure situation...

Run a backup after doing anything on the computer that you don't want to lose.
If you go for a week without doing anything important (e.g., a week with
nothing more than a few trivial e-mails or something), you don't need to back
things up constantly.

[polymod]

"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:8rGdnRi3F_QvXS_S...@giganews.com...

Don't we all?

Poly

[Les Cargill]

Nope! Just read an article of a horror story.

--
Les Cargill

[swanny]

Don't forget the Second Law of Backups:
"Always attempt to restore a backup before you *really* need it."

Have seen many backup systems over the years that failed to restore when
everything had gone belly-up.

[Tobiah]

On 05/15/2012 05:41 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
>
>
> Just a gentle reminder to revisit your backup regime soon...
> chances are it's inadequate...
>

One thing that many overlook, is the need for geographically
disparate copies. I have a terabyte sitting on the net on
my work computer that I use to store copies of backups. If
someone breaks into my house, and steals all my stuff, or if
the house burns down, I will still have everything at work.

My work's idea of this is to have two virtual servers, one
hosted on the East coast, one on the West.

Tobiah

[Frank Stearns]

And while we're at it on this topic, let's also mention the potential for a real
mess if we were hit by a big CME (coronal mass ejection from the sun) or an EMP
(electromagnetic pulse from a nuke set off by crazies).

I've been researching both a bit, and there's the usual range of opinion. But CMEs
have taken down portions of the grid in the past, and at one point in the late 19th
century the telegraph system.

What's new is how much more complex things have become in 30 years since the last
good-sized CME, and in some ways how much more fragile things have become in that
complexity.

At today's level of technology, we have yet to be hit by CMEs as strong as those in
years past, and 2013 is supposed to start a new cycle of the really big ones.

In terms of EMP, if I were a crazy wanting to take down the "Great Satans" of the
West, I wouldn't bother with dirty bombs or sneaking something into a city. I'd work
on getting the optimal mix of E1, E2, and E3 pulse energies to do the most damage
and set the thing(s) off in the air. A plus is that a fancy rocket launch vehicle
wouldn't even be needed. (Use your imagination as how to put something in the air,
undetected as a threat.)

We are taking several inexpensive counter-measures individually, but I'd also
suggest the following if you're so inclined:

- ask your remote backup service provider what they've done to harden their facility
against CME and EMP events. If they have no idea what you're talking about, find
another provider.

- ask the same question of your electrical utility.

- do a little research on your own and decide how paranoid you want to become.

And you thought MP3s caused heartburn! :)

[Tobiah]

> At today's level of technology, we have yet to be hit by CMEs as strong as those in
> years past, and 2013 is supposed to start a new cycle of the really big ones.

Coronal mass ejection? You must be immersed in the field,
having wielded that little known acronym with no courtesy
explanation :)

[Frank Stearns]

Indeed. Apologies. Didn't want the post to go on too long; there's a huge amount I
left out! (Figured interested parties would do a little poking around with a search
engine.)

However, the sort version, with pieces missing, is this: when the sun burps (various
"storms" on the surface along with magnetic flux), it puts out a lot of particles
(protons, but other junk as well) -- a CME -- which in turn hits earth's magnetic
field.

This makes for very pretty lights in the sky (during the big CME of the mid 1800s,
the night sky was supposedly daylight-bright and many insisted though midnight, it
was time to get up and go to work).

Large currents are also induced when those particles hit the earth's magnetic field.
Those currents are in turn picked up by that huge high-gain receiver we've created,
better known as the power grid (a multi-pronged set of rabbit ears with many
branches hundreds of miles long).

The concern is that those induced currents could damage very large transformers
scattered about on the grid, transformers so large and specialized that they might
not be replacable for weeks, months and in one end-of-the-world scenario, years.

One hopes various protections exist around those transformers, but apparently not,
according to some reports, at least not enough to withstand the jolt from a large
CME. You might be able to work around one to two fried transformers, but if several
were taken out at the same time, we'd be in a world of hurt.

Even now parts of the grid are rather rickety without any nudges from CMEs or EMPs.
Remember the squirrel jumping on the lines in Ohio that caused a cascade failure and
blew out power in the Northeastern USA for the better part of a day? (The squirrel
had a rather bad day too.)

One silly squirrel caused that mess (along with no doubt some bad engineering or bad
systems management/configuration). But imagine a bunch of "squirrels" in the form of
a CME hitting all at once.

That's the short of it (honest, no pun); any additions/corrections welcome.

[Richard Webb]

On Wed 2012-May-16 17:56, Frank Stearns writes:
> And while we're at it on this topic, let's also mention the
> potential for a real mess if we were hit by a big CME (coronal mass
> ejection from the sun) or an EMP (electromagnetic pulse from a nuke
> set off by crazies).

YEp, and the sun's starting to be a bit volatile again.

> I've been researching both a bit, and there's the usual range of
> opinion. But CMEs
> have taken down portions of the grid in the past, and at one point
> in the late 19th
> century the telegraph system.

YEp, and was strong enough to even damage rails laid for the railroad.

AS for emp, during the aboveground tests in the pacific emp
set off by a nuke screwed up the traffic lights in Hawaii.

> What's new is how much more complex things have become in 30 years
> since the last
> good-sized CME, and in some ways how much more fragile things have
> become in that
> complexity.

Indeed, and a lot of our critical infrastructure isn't
adequately hardened against this stuff either. Cable
internet where you cable runs overhead? Forget it!
MEdical diagnostic equipment, pffft.

> At today's level of technology, we have yet to be hit by CMEs as
> strong as those in
> years past, and 2013 is supposed to start a new cycle of the really
> big ones.

INdeeed, and even the military which should be very prepared for emp isnt' as much as they'd like to be.

We're talking about some serious disruptions to ordinary
every day life if a powerful cme slaps us, or, as you note,
an emp triggered by an air burst of a nuke.

> In terms of EMP, if I were a crazy wanting to take down the "Great
> Satans" of the
> West, I wouldn't bother with dirty bombs or sneaking something into
> a city. I'd work
> on getting the optimal mix of E1, E2, and E3 pulse energies to do
> the most damage
> and set the thing(s) off in the air. A plus is that a fancy rocket
> launch vehicle
> wouldn't even be needed. (Use your imagination as how to put
> something in the air,
> undetected as a threat.)

Balloons!

> We are taking several inexpensive counter-measures individually, but
> I'd also suggest the following if you're so inclined:

> - ask your remote backup service provider what they've done to
> harden their facility
> against CME and EMP events. If they have no idea what you're talking
> about, find another provider.

Right, and ask the same of your local emergency response
agencies, your hospital's data centers, etc. This is some
serious stuff folks, and it ain't no pipe dream.
Ask any agency or company about this if it provides
essential infrastructure to you. YOur local utilities,
telecom providers, water and sewage people, as well as your
bank, etc. etc.

Regards,
Richard
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet<->Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[Mxsmanic]

Frank Stearns writes:

> And while we're at it on this topic, let's also mention the potential for a real
> mess if we were hit by a big CME (coronal mass ejection from the sun) or an EMP
> (electromagnetic pulse from a nuke set off by crazies).

Neither would be sufficient to have much of an effect. CME effects are too
weak, EMPs are too localized. And there will always be some disk drives
somewhere that resist both.

There's always a trade-off between cost and risk. The important thing is to
make sure that you choose your back-up strategy so that you minimize your
losses if something happens. Spending huge amounts of money on back-ups that
represent little potential loss makes no sense, but similarly spending too
little money on back-ups of data that will bankrupt you if it's lost also
makes no sense.

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns <franks.pa...@pacifier.net> wrote:
>I've been researching both a bit, and there's the usual range of opinion. But CMEs
>have taken down portions of the grid in the past, and at one point in the late 19th
>century the telegraph system.

In 1978, we had so much low level ionization that folks were getting BBC-TV
on the east coast of the US and complaining it wouldn't come in properly
and the fine tuning couldn't bring in both sound and picture at the same time.

The Carrington Event of 1859 was big... folks have been estimating between
25 and 50 times the size of the 1978 storm.

What is scary about the Carrington Event that is that ionization resulted
in high voltages being induced on long telegraph lines, and the same thing
can happen to power lines. Now, for high voltage transmission lines that
already carry hundreds of KeV, that's not a big worry. For electronics not
plugged into external lines which are self-contained, that's not a big worry.

For phone circuits, it's a big worry. For cable TV networks which invariably
are a mass of ground loops to begin with, it's a big worry.

>At today's level of technology, we have yet to be hit by CMEs as strong as those in
>years past, and 2013 is supposed to start a new cycle of the really big ones.

So far, Solar Cycle 24 has been pretty low activity... the minimum was very,
very minimum and it was extended a lot longer than expected. So there is some
debate about how big the maximum is going to be and whether it also might
be delayed, but so far the solar activity has been way, way lower than in the
past few cycles. For HF radio users like hams, this is an annoyance.

In fact, there's some possibility of a "maunder minimum" where solar activity
drops down very low for multiple cycles. This is the great fear of a lot
of ham radio operators.

If you're curious you can see a huge amount of information about the current
state of solar weather at http://www.solarham.com.

>In terms of EMP, if I were a crazy wanting to take down the "Great Satans" of the
>West, I wouldn't bother with dirty bombs or sneaking something into a city. I'd work
>on getting the optimal mix of E1, E2, and E3 pulse energies to do the most damage
>and set the thing(s) off in the air. A plus is that a fancy rocket launch vehicle
>wouldn't even be needed. (Use your imagination as how to put something in the air,
>undetected as a threat.)

Hard to do, though, it's a lot of energy, and nuclear weapons are still not
commodity items yet as much as some governments might like them to be.
But, you never know.

>We are taking several inexpensive counter-measures individually, but I'd also
>suggest the following if you're so inclined:
>
>- ask your remote backup service provider what they've done to harden their facility
>against CME and EMP events. If they have no idea what you're talking about, find
>another provider.
>
>- ask the same question of your electrical utility.

These are certainly wise things to do. In the case of electrical service,
the same things that can harden the system to induced pulses are ALSO the
same things that can harden it to lightning events. And if you do not have
a proper grounding system for the studio and a lightning arrestor built into
your service entry, you should get that taken care of right now because that
is your first line of defense for any induced junk on the power line.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Webb]

On Thu 2012-May-17 10:25, Scott Dorsey writes:
> In 1978, we had so much low level ionization that folks were getting
> BBC-TV on the east coast of the US and complaining it wouldn't come
> in properly and the fine tuning couldn't bring in both sound and
> picture at the same time.

YEp, recall that one well. Had all sorts of fun on 10 and
even 6 meters. Was on tour with a band, and we homebrewed
linear amplifiers for the vehicles because we got a few
miles apart those little 3.5 watt output am cb rigs with a
102 inch whip wouldn't work each other over the strong
stations coming in on skip, and we even avoided the usual
road channels, except for one vehicle which had dual watch
capability and could monitor cb 19 as well as the other
channel we were using. With 100 watts at least we could
communicate with each other if 4 or 5 miles apart, which we
couldn't do with 3.5 watts.

> The Carrington Event of 1859 was big... folks have been estimating
> between 25 and 50 times the size of the 1978 storm.

Yep, and iirc as I mentioned in a previous post, that one
even did damage to railroad tracks.

> What is scary about the Carrington Event that is that ionization
> resulted in high voltages being induced on long telegraph lines, and
> the same thing can happen to power lines. Now, for high voltage
> transmission lines that already carry hundreds of KeV, that's not a
> big worry. For electronics not plugged into external lines which
> are self-contained, that's not a big worry.

Nope, but as you note, cable tv, telephone systems,
especially where lines aren't buried, etc. that's a big
worry. iF lines carrying control data for those utilities
aren't fiber optic or buried though that's a big worry.

> So far, Solar Cycle 24 has been pretty low activity... the minimum
> was very, very minimum and it was extended a lot longer than
> expected. So there is some debate about how big the maximum is
> going to be and whether it also might be delayed, but so far the
> solar activity has been way, way lower than in the past few cycles.
> For HF radio users like hams, this is an annoyance.

YEah I know, that's sure been a disappointment for me I can
tell you, but we're starting to get a bit of activity.
Twenty meters is starting to open up to Europe again late
evenings in the midwest on occasion, but it hasn't been near what many hoped for.

> In fact, there's some possibility of a "maunder minimum" where solar
> activity drops down very low for multiple cycles. This is the great
> fear of a lot of ham radio operators.

INdeed there is, but if not this event, then I would lay
money on another Carrington event in our future.

<snip>

> Hard to do, though, it's a lot of energy, and nuclear weapons are
> still not commodity items yet as much as some governments might like
> them to be. But, you never know.

This is true, even with the balloon idea I threw out last
night, this still isn't "off the shelf" for most countries
even. Remember that dude in Pakistan sold some others who
wanted to get into the nukes game defective centrifuge
technology. But, there are still enough "rogue states" that might decide to give it a shot. Yeah I know, NOrth Korea
can't even feed its own people yet they've been working hard at developing nuke technology, and icbm capability.

>>We are taking several inexpensive counter-measures individually, but I'd also
>>suggest the following if you're so inclined:

<snip>

> These are certainly wise things to do. In the case of electrical
> service, the same things that can harden the system to induced
> pulses are ALSO the same things that can harden it to lightning
> events. And if you do not have a proper grounding system for the
> studio and a lightning arrestor built into your service entry, you
> should get that taken care of right now because that is your first
> line of defense for any induced junk on the power line. --scott

That's what amazes me the most about this. The very things
that are your best protection are "good engineering
practice" anyway.

[Frank Stearns]

Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> writes:

>Frank Stearns writes:

>> And while we're at it on this topic, let's also mention the potential for a real
>> mess if we were hit by a big CME (coronal mass ejection from the sun) or an EMP
>> (electromagnetic pulse from a nuke set off by crazies).

>Neither would be sufficient to have much of an effect. CME effects are too
>weak, EMPs are too localized. And there will always be some disk drives
>somewhere that resist both.

Likely incorrect on most counts:

- CME effects we've seen since building up the grid have been mostly routine and
haven't done much damage. However, like a 100 year or 500 year flood event, a 100,
500, or even more rare CME event, when it hits, could cause some serious hurt to
unprotected systems.

Scott had an excellent reply to this; my only question is just how well 500 or 1000
KV transformers really could absorb something peaky and random induced from a big
CME. Given the cost, desires for efficiency, and other factors, I wonder just how
much "margin" those big transformers enjoy in their design and manufacture, and how
much "bumping around" they really could take, especially while under full load.

Suppose, for example, you get a very brief, very high-voltage pulse, enough to
breach or weaken internal insulation for a small portion of a second. (Remember, at
those line voltages, you're getting into some engineering and materials esoterica
from the get-go.)

Maybe nothing happens, but perhaps the undetected weakness festers and a second,
minute, hour, or day later, a slight "normal" upset in the high voltage causes a
complete breakdown at that point and you get a cascading and catastrophic insulation
failure inside the transformer.

Maybe the breakers trip in time, or maybe they stay up just long enough so that a
portion of the transformer is destroyed internally and it can't be brought back up.
It's shorted slag in one corner of its innards.

The damage didn't happen directly from the CME in this scenario, it happend from a
weakness caused by the CME in a system that's already running under some extreme
conditions.


- Best as anyone can know given the classified nature of the business, the US and
others have or have had nukes specifically tuned to produce the most possible EMP.
You can do your own research, but weapons can be designed for this.


- your optical media will certainly survive (assuming it hasn't died merely from
sitting on the shelf too long), but unprotected HDs or other modern electronics,
plugged in or not, might be another matter. Depends on the magnitude of the event.

Back in the old days, you could order "hardened" versions of many solid state
devices. I haven't kept up with manufacturing so much in recent years, but very
small die, high density parts, *are* fragile; some memory manufacturers have
cited problems caused by cosmic ray strikes.

>There's always a trade-off between cost and risk. The important thing is to
>make sure that you choose your back-up strategy so that you minimize your
>losses if something happens. Spending huge amounts of money on back-ups that
>represent little potential loss makes no sense, but similarly spending too
>little money on back-ups of data that will bankrupt you if it's lost also
>makes no sense.

That's the thing that's frustrating; unlike many possible fixes to various problems
in the world real or imagined, this one really isn't that hard or expensive to
protect against, both as utilities and as individuals.

We'd do way better diverting just a little bit of money from "climate change" to
"grid protection".

[William Sommerwerck]

I just edited an "Electronic Design" article that discussed EMP and related
issues.

Major CMEs occur every 60 to 80 years. One back in the 19th century
disrupted telegraph lines. The most-recent one, in the '80s, brought down at
least one power system in Canada, and damaged generators.

A major SEMP (not to be confused with one of the Three Stooges) could wreck
huge sections of the power grid, doing damage that would take years to
repair.

[MarkK]

>
> Major CMEs occur every 60 to 80 years. One back in the 19th century
> disrupted telegraph lines. The most-recent one, in the '80s, brought down
at
> least one power system in Canada, and damaged generators.
>
>

my understanding of the CMEs is that they can induce a substantial DC
current into the long transmission lines. The transformers at the ends of
the line are not designed to handle DC and even a relatively small amount of
DC unbalances them and can cause the core to start to go into saturation
over part of the AC cycle. (Just like an audio output xformer of a push pull
amp that is unbalanced.) This can overheat the transformer if allowed to
continue for too long to the point of failure. Now I am sure transformers
fail everyday and there are backups in place, but if say 100 were to fail on
the same day throughout the country, the system might be strained to the
limit. And transformers of those kind are not off the shelf items.

Mark

[Soundhaspriority]

"Richard Webb" <Richard.We...@116-901.ftn.wpusa.dynip.com> wrote in
message news:02a_2012...@ftn.wpusa.dynip.com...
[snip]

>
> That's what amazes me the most about this. The very things
> that are your best protection are "good engineering
> practice" anyway.
>

The energies predicted by a Carrington event, or an engineered nuclear EMP
event are so large, even 10 feet of wire can have a very large induced
voltage. In DoD studies, it was found that such things as artillery gun
barrels could pick up 600V potentials between the ends. In the case of
nuclear induced EMP, rise times of GHz radiation are so fast, pulses get
past shunt diodes, making consumer and regular industrial surge protectors
useless.

If you ever get the warning -- and both DoD and NASA have satellites for
launches and flares respectively, there is something you can do, provided
you take care of the issue of bodily harm first:

1. Unplug everything from everything: data, power, video, audio.
2. On every box that has been unplugged, detach all the cables. Every cable
is an antenna for EMP.
3. EMP is a concentrated phenomena. NASA has some capability to
geographically localize the point of highest intensity. Ditto for DoD with
high altitude nuclear detonations. If you are in the bulls eye, the above is
not enough. Put the "must have" stuff, which should be battery operated,
since you won't have power for a while, in a galvanized trash can and put
the lid on. And stay away from metal. When a nuclear EMP hits, the ends of a
screen door could be lethal.

I am prepared to perform steps 1 and 2, but I don't have a metal trash can
;)

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

[Frank Stearns]

"Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> writes:

- snips -

>since you won't have power for a while, in a galvanized trash can and put
>the lid on. And stay away from metal. When a nuclear EMP hits, the ends of a
>screen door could be lethal.

>I am prepared to perform steps 1 and 2, but I don't have a metal trash can
>;)

My local True Value hardware store still carries nicely made galvanized steel cans
of various sizes with tight-fitting lids. I picked up a 20 gallon model
(approximately 20 inches tall with an 18 inch mouth) for around US$25.00. They had
10, 20, and 30 gallon sizes. Apparently, metal cans are quite popular for dry dog
food containers. (And, big surprise, made in the USA.)

I rotate through USB porta drives for back up; they get stored in this enclosure.
USB sticks and other forms of flash memory go into this. Need to get a good battery
operated radio to go in there too.

Really would be good if some of that climate change money went to for something
truly useful, such as grid hardening. Oh yeah, I already said that. :)

[Richard Webb]

On Sat 2012-May-19 01:15, Bob writes:

>> That's what amazes me the most about this. The very things
>> that are your best protection are "good engineering
>> practice" anyway.

> The energies predicted by a Carrington event, or an engineered
> nuclear EMP event are so large, even 10 feet of wire can have a very
> large induced voltage. In DoD studies, it was found that such things
> as artillery gun barrels could pick up 600V potentials between the
> ends. In the case of nuclear induced EMP, rise times of GHz
> radiation are so fast, pulses get past shunt diodes, making consumer
> and regular industrial surge protectors useless.

Pretty much so. But, if you follow good engineering
practice you're more likely to be able to take steps if
you've gotten some warning anyway. Note your point on any
wire connecting devices being an antenna. PEople forget
that in all parts of this life, that cable connecting those
two devices together is a perfect antenna <g>.

> If you ever get the warning -- and both DoD and NASA have satellites
> for launches and flares respectively, there is something you can do,
> provided you take care of the issue of bodily harm first:

> 1. Unplug everything from everything: data, power, video, audio. 2.
> On every box that has been unplugged, detach all the cables. Every
> cable is an antenna for EMP.
> 3. EMP is a concentrated phenomena. NASA has some capability to
> geographically localize the point of highest intensity. Ditto for DoD
> with high altitude nuclear detonations. If you are in the bulls eye,
> the above is not enough. Put the "must have" stuff, which should be
> battery operated, since you won't have power for a while, in a
> galvanized trash can and put the lid on. And stay away from metal.
> When a nuclear EMP hits, the ends of a screen door could be lethal.

> I am prepared to perform steps 1 and 2, but I don't have a metal
> trash can ;)

NOte somebody else said Tru Value hardware, lowe's has 'em
too. Get one! I've got one for just such a purpose <g>.
YEah I know, some folks use 'em for animal feed, I've got a
plastic bin with a tight fitting lid, on small plastic
wheels even for dog food. But yes, in this we've got some
battery operated devices, or can put them in there if we've
received warning. We're also big on those human powered
radios and flashlights. My xyl has one near her usual
position in the living room ready to hand, I've one in the
shack here, and there's a human powered flashlight in one fo the drawers in the remote truck. We've also two of those
human powered bc band receivers running around. One right
by the bed, the other in the radio room here.

IF I get fair warning, one of the hf transceivers will go in its box, the box wrapped in foil then stowed in the metal
can, same with some vhf/uhf gear, flashlights, etc. It
along with the grab 'n go trunk mean for two trips to the
van if we've got to bug out, two trips for me with stuff,
one trip with Kathy in wheelchair.

[Soundhaspriority]

"Richard Webb" <Richard.We...@116-901.ftn.wpusa.dynip.com> wrote in

message news:06b_2012...@ftn.wpusa.dynip.com...
[snip]

>
> IF I get fair warning, one of the hf transceivers will go in its box, the
> box wrapped in foil then stowed in the metal
> can, same with some vhf/uhf gear, flashlights, etc. It
> along with the grab 'n go trunk mean for two trips to the
> van if we've got to bug out, two trips for me with stuff,
> one trip with Kathy in wheelchair.
>

Sounds good. One more thing: an EMP event is a good time to own a diesel,
not the new electronic diesels, but the old clattery type with prechambers.
No delicate circuitry, just a starter, glow-plugs, and the fuel-kill
solenoid.

People with engine computers are likely to have some trouble or a lot of
trouble. Some tests indicate that if the EMP merely glitches the computer,
disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes restores it. But a hard kill is
very possible.

See
http://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html

and

http://gizmodo.com/5454295/this-emp-cannon-stops-cars-almost-instantly

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

[Don Pearce]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 11:44:18 -0400, "Soundhaspriority"
<now...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>
>"Richard Webb" <Richard.We...@116-901.ftn.wpusa.dynip.com> wrote in
>message news:06b_2012...@ftn.wpusa.dynip.com...
>[snip]
>>
>> IF I get fair warning, one of the hf transceivers will go in its box, the
>> box wrapped in foil then stowed in the metal
>> can, same with some vhf/uhf gear, flashlights, etc. It
>> along with the grab 'n go trunk mean for two trips to the
>> van if we've got to bug out, two trips for me with stuff,
>> one trip with Kathy in wheelchair.
>>
>Sounds good. One more thing: an EMP event is a good time to own a diesel,
>not the new electronic diesels, but the old clattery type with prechambers.
>No delicate circuitry, just a starter, glow-plugs, and the fuel-kill
>solenoid.
>
>People with engine computers are likely to have some trouble or a lot of
>trouble. Some tests indicate that if the EMP merely glitches the computer,
>disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes restores it. But a hard kill is
>very possible.
>

Not EMP, I know, but large solar flare events produces vaguely similar
results on a locally smaller, but more widespread scale. In the UK,
the National Grid no longer responds to such events by opening
breakers. To the contrary, they close every switch possible, and
connect the entire grid together. Induced currents now dissipate
widely, and we suffer neither meltdowns or blackouts.

As for EMP busing a PC, there was a science programme on TV years ago
that subjected an old 286 machine (I think) to EMP in a screened
chamber. It died to the extent that it could not recognise its hard
drive. Unfortunately they didn't complete the experiment and move the
drive to another PC to see if it had survived the event.

Foil hats are all we really need - for us and our equipment.

d

[Richard Webb]

On Sun 2012-May-20 11:52, Don writes:
>>> IF I get fair warning, one of the hf transceivers will go in its box, the
>>> box wrapped in foil then stowed in the metal
>>> can, same with some vhf/uhf gear, flashlights, etc. It
>>> along with the grab 'n go trunk mean for two trips to the
>>> van if we've got to bug out, two trips for me with stuff,
>>> one trip with Kathy in wheelchair.
>>Sounds good. One more thing: an EMP event is a good time to own a diesel,
>>not the new electronic diesels, but the old clattery type with prechambers.
>>No delicate circuitry, just a starter, glow-plugs, and the fuel-kill
>>solenoid.

Yep, or maybe old internal combustion engine with just a
magneto or something similar.

> Not EMP, I know, but large solar flare events produces vaguely
> similar results on a locally smaller, but more widespread scale. In
> the UK, the National Grid no longer responds to such events by
> opening breakers. To the contrary, they close every switch possible,
> and connect the entire grid together. Induced currents now dissipate
> widely, and we suffer neither meltdowns or blackouts.

Right, remind folks to unplug their electronics, and let the grid take that "surge" to ground.

> As for EMP busing a PC, there was a science programme on TV years
> ago that subjected an old 286 machine (I think) to EMP in a screened
> chamber. It died to the extent that it could not recognise its hard
> drive. Unfortunately they didn't complete the experiment and move
> the drive to another PC to see if it had survived the event.

I'd bet not, especially if concentrated enough, realign all
those domains. Format, what format?

> Foil hats are all we really need - for us and our equipment.

<rotfl>