capstan/pinch roller rubber turned into gooshy goop? WHYYY???
rockgod75
be mildly amusing so bear with me.
About 2 years ago an engineer who works at my studio put splicing tape
around the rubber pinch roller of our Tascam MS-16 1" tape machine.
Our air conditioner had busted and he claims the roller "melted" in
the heat and the roller started sticking to the tape. Being a
McGuyver type of guy, he wrapped the rubber pinch roller in splicing
tape.
I personally think he used the head cleaning fluid on the roller,
ruined it, and then used the heat as an excuse to cover up his
blunder.
Anyway... we got a 2" machine around the same time so the 1" machine
was retired to the closet right after the McGuyver incident.
I recently had to break out the retired 1" machine to do a transfer
and so I tried to clean the pinch roller. It was all sticky still!
(presumably from the splicing tape's residual adhesive... I had yanked
the splicing tape off 2 years ago).
I had a bottle of "rubber rejuvinator" (a product specifically
intended for cleaning capstan/pinch rollers) and that did NOTHING.
Still goopy. I tried alchol based tape head cleaner. Made things
worse. Got desperate. I figured all the goop on the roller is left
over splicing tape adhesive. Acetone cuts adhesive right? So I try
acetone. Bad idea.
Obviously things are going from unusable to ridiculous. Not being one
to give up easily I shoved a pencil through the middle and roll the
pinch roller on paper. Lots of black crap comes off like it was an
ink pad on a cylinder. I felt like I was doing a crafts project back
in highschool. 25 black line covered sheets of paper later the roller
is no longer sticky. But it IS covered in paper fuzz now. In victory
I march to the bathroom to wash off the paper fuzz and begin the
transfer.
So I run it under mildly hot water and soap thinking what a genius I
am and the rubber turns into TOTAL mush. It looked worse than when I
used the acetone even!
So now I am thinking some sort of bizarre chemical transformation has
occured and the roller rubber has magically soaked up water. It is
water logged. What gets rid of water?? You guessed it... HEAT. So I
stick the roller in my toaster oven on a sheet of aluminum foil.
Guess what happens? The rubber turns into the consistency of mascara
but magically doesn't melt off the roller onto the foil. It is still
vaugely capstan-y looking.
At this point I know I am screwed so I figure what the hell why not
stick it into the FREEZER to reverse the horrible effects of the
heat???? Well it gets cold and turns into sticky tar as opposed to
liquid mascara. At this point I go drink a beer.
I had officially admitted defeat. ME - 0, Capstan - 1.
So the roller looks like hell and I feel like a moron but what I want
to know is at what point did I descend into total idiocy? Was it the
soap and water, toster over, the freezer, the acetone, the head
cleaner, or the magical inkpad experience?
Seriously though... I have some questions for those who have read this
far and are rubber/capstan geniuses.
First off... can 100 degree heat plus tape machine heat actually melt
a pinch roller (i.e. was my engineer telling the truth?)
Second... what should I have cleaned it with? (and don't tell me
"rubber rejuvinator" or I will scream.)
Third... Why did it turn into mush? It really is like tar. You would
think it would harden up again but that didn't happen over the past 2
years so I don't see why it would now. Even more peculiar... why did
hot soap and water do the most damage (besides the toaster oven of
course)? I want to know the chemical history of rubber here folks.
Last... Is there some way to magically make the rubber hard again? I
just need to do this ONE transfer and I would prefer not having to
shell out $200 for a frikken capstan pinch roller. Anything at all I
can do to it to make it NOT sticky and somewhat rollerific? Short of
wrapping it in splicing tape of course.
Thanks in advance for any help,
charley
hflj1
Nothing I tried worked and it was a new roller to get things working
again.
Huw
UK
Will Hunt
Sorry-don't know the recipe, but the technique led to an
industrial revolution about 150 years ago when they figured it out.
Before that, rubber tended to be like your present pinch roller...
Realistically, find someone on here with your machine and an old pinch
roller or two lying around in a drawer. A friend of mine has one-I'll ask
him.
Will Hunt
Mark Henderson
This is going to mush it, unless cleaned off right away.
Perhaps some capstan lube flowed out in the heat?
"rockgod75" <rock...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:84b8546c.02071...@posting.google.com...
Tim Laur
I have used on the recommondation of Sony techs, blue window cleaner such as
Windex. None of the problems noted in your ordeal were noticed. This is,
of course, second to replacing the rubber.
tim
"rockgod75" <rock...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:84b8546c.02071...@posting.google.com...
Scott Dorsey
>
>So the roller looks like hell and I feel like a moron but what I want
>to know is at what point did I descend into total idiocy? Was it the
>soap and water, toster over, the freezer, the acetone, the head
>cleaner, or the magical inkpad experience?
The minute you took the machine out of the closet. Pinch rollers are
disposable items. You need to replace them every few years. It's not
worth the trouble to bother with this kind of thing.
>First off... can 100 degree heat plus tape machine heat actually melt
>a pinch roller (i.e. was my engineer telling the truth?)
I dunno, it it sounds to me like something happened to the pinch roller
to make it gooey (maybe someone overdid it with the rubber rejuvenator.
Maybe it just got old).
Putting tape on it just covered up the breakdown of the rubber. Everything
else you did had no real effect because the rubber had turned to mush years
beforehand.
>Second... what should I have cleaned it with? (and don't tell me
>"rubber rejuvinator" or I will scream.)
You should not have cleaned it, you should have thrown it away.
>Third... Why did it turn into mush? It really is like tar. You would
>think it would harden up again but that didn't happen over the past 2
>years so I don't see why it would now. Even more peculiar... why did
>hot soap and water do the most damage (besides the toaster oven of
>course)? I want to know the chemical history of rubber here folks.
The problem is that there are lots of kinds of rubber. If you had a
urethane roller, they sometimes just turn to goo through the same sort
of mechanism that causes tape binder breakdown and urethane foam speaker
surrounds to fall apart. Natural rubbers don't normally do this. But,
natural rubbers can be destroyed by too much rubber rejuvenator (methyl
acetate).
>Last... Is there some way to magically make the rubber hard again? I
>just need to do this ONE transfer and I would prefer not having to
>shell out $200 for a frikken capstan pinch roller. Anything at all I
>can do to it to make it NOT sticky and somewhat rollerific? Short of
>wrapping it in splicing tape of course.
No. The pinch roller is dead. It should have been replaced years and
years ago. If you ever intend on using the machine again, or you ever
intend on selling the machine, you must replace the pinch roller.
If you can wait a few weeks and don't want to pay $200, you can send the
original roller in to VIF or Parts Express and have them recap it with
new rubber. This will usually run about half the cost of a new roller.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
William Sommerwerck
family. The first and most-famous of these is called "The Woman who Put Salt in
her Coffee." When Mrs. Peterkin makes that error, the family goes to everyone in
the neighborhood, looking for a way to correct the problem, without success.
The finally wind up at the house of The Lady from Philadelphia, renowned for her
good sense. She says, "Why don't you just make a new cup of coffee?"
By the way, McGyver doesn't have a u in it.
Mike Rivers
> So the roller looks like hell and I feel like a moron but what I want
> to know is at what point did I descend into total idiocy? Was it the
> soap and water, toster over, the freezer, the acetone, the head
> cleaner, or the magical inkpad experience?
No, it was the composition of the pinch roller and it was just its
time to go.
I replaced the original pinch roller of an Ampex AG440 about 15 years
ago (when it still felt like rubber, just worn and cracked on the
surface) and it ended up on a back corner of the work bench where it
remained until just a month or so when I was doing some cleanup. I
tried to pick it up and my fingers sunk into goo all the way down to
the aluminum hub. I had to pry it off the bench since the goo had
stuck it to the surface. It was just like the mess you described.
> First off... can 100 degree heat plus tape machine heat actually melt
> a pinch roller (i.e. was my engineer telling the truth?)
No.
> Second... what should I have cleaned it with? (and don't tell me
> "rubber rejuvinator" or I will scream.)
Distilled water or Windex works best on most pinch roller compounds.
ATR Service sells a special rubber cleaner that's formulated to work
well with the aftermarket pinch rollers that they sell, and people
have reported that TEAC rubber cleaner is good. But if you can't clean
it up with water, you've let it go too long without cleaning.
> Third... Why did it turn into mush?
Chemistry. Water absorption probably has something to do with it but
you'd have to know what the rubber compound is to tell for sure.
> Last... Is there some way to magically make the rubber hard again?
No. When it's gone, it's gone. They're expendable parts.
> just need to do this ONE transfer and I would prefer not having to
> shell out $200 for a frikken capstan pinch roller.
Rent or hire. But it might cost $200, depending on how lengthly this
"ONE" transfer is.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mri...@d-and-d.com)
dr.sound
Buy a new pinch roller and when it needs cleaning try 409. It actually works
real well. Some of the techs at studios in L.A. use and swear by it.
dr.sound
"Mike Rivers" <mri...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1026909680k@trad...
SOLO
wrote:
>First off... can 100 degree heat plus tape machine heat actually melt
>a pinch roller (i.e. was my engineer telling the truth?
Don't know about the heat but this happened to us recently with a
Studer 1/4". Pinch roller got very mushy (come to think it got hot
too). Also, back in my record store days I saw many an 8-track's
rubber roller turn to gooey tar (lotsa fun to clean out the deck after
trying to play it - YUCK!!!). Get a new one.
Bill
pacificr...@gmail.com
JackA
Richard Kuschel
JackA
John Williamson
> On *Wednesday, July 17, 2002* at 4:08:13 AM UTC-4, rockgod75 wrote:
You do realise you just replied to a 14 year old post, don't you? If
he's not sorted it out by now, there's no hope.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
John Williamson
> On Wednesday, July 17, *2002* at 2:08:13 AM UTC-6, rockgod75 wrote:
<Stuff about gooey pinch rollers.>
> Charley, If you get that machine running correctly , contact me. I have a couple of 1" tapes that need transferring.
>
There are, however, a few people who still have the gear to transfer 1
inch tape to digital at a price.
JackA
> On 29/03/2016 18:00, JackA wrote:
> > On *Wednesday, July 17, 2002* at 4:08:13 AM UTC-4, rockgod75 wrote:
>
> You do realise you just replied to a 14 year old post, don't you? If
> he's not sorted it out by now, there's no hope.
Jack :)
Scott Dorsey
>On Wednesday, July 17, 2002 at 2:08:13 AM UTC-6, rockgod75 wrote:
>> Third... Why did it turn into mush? It really is like tar. You would
>> think it would harden up again but that didn't happen over the past 2
>> years so I don't see why it would now. Even more peculiar... why did
>> hot soap and water do the most damage (besides the toaster oven of
>> course)? I want to know the chemical history of rubber here folks.
>>
2002.
Just to explain to the guy who dredged up this ancient post originally:
No doubt Charley had a urethane pinch roller. Natural rubber rollers get
hard, urethanes turn to goo with the same mechanism that causes sticky shed
and foam speaker surround failures.
Pinch rollers are a wear item, like the tires on your car, and you expect to
replace them every five years or so.