SSL 4000 E - dimensions and price
rapha...@gmail.com
What's the dimensions of an old SSL 4000 E with 48ch, VU (not plasma)
and patchpay?
How "cheap" can I get one in working condition today?
What about maintenance, too much headache, or normal?
Can you estimate the value of this console in about 7 to 10 years in
the future?
Thanks,
Raphael Rosenthal
chestek
> Hi.
>
> What's the dimensions of an old SSL 4000 E with 48ch, VU (not plasma)
> and patchpay?
Don't have exact dimensions, but about 8-10 feet wide, maybe 5 feet deep
(don't go designing a control room around my guess!). There's also a
VERY loud power supply and computer rack (fully loaded it'll be a 6-foot
tall rackfull) that needs to be within about 25 cable-feet of the
console (you'll NEED a well-isolated machine room).
>
> How "cheap" can I get one in working condition today?
Rough guess, between 40-60,000 US$ depending on condition and
configuration (Total Recall, computer version, disk drive/tape drive,
etc, etc.....)
>
> What about maintenance, too much headache, or normal?
Depends on the board and it's previous owners maintenance. Most
components are/were off-the shelf parts, and lots of it can still be
found. They're actually solidly designed and built, and CAN be pretty
maintenance free.
But the computer is a major "black box" and component-level maintenance
is difficult to impossible for anyone not intimately familiar with it's
guts (read some with SERIOUS SSL training).
And be aware that SSL has discontinued support for all 4000 and 6000
series consoles, and they no longer have parts, so all board-level parts
support will have to be from independent service companies (and most
likely will be assemblies cannibalized from other consoles).
>
> Can you estimate the value of this console in about 7 to 10 years in
> the future?
No.
>
> Thanks,
> Raphael Rosenthal
>
JChestek
Mike Rivers
> What about maintenance, too much headache, or normal?
Absolutely you'll need a well trained technician on call. It's not
that they fail often, but that you need more than just good
troubleshooting skills to find a problem since the analog and digital
parts of the system require different kinds of knowledge and you need
to know both. And because of its age, some parts that are subject to
wear and require replacement (pots and switches, mostly) may be hard
to find.
Sorry to say it this way, but if you have to ask this question, you'd
better either have a good tech lined up and are able to set aside a
reasonable (like maybe $5,000 per year) amount for maintenance, or you
should look for something else.
Alternately, you can buy an SSL 4000 that's substantially larger than
what you need. That way, you can put off certain repairs (but not all
repairs) by using the parts that still work. A computer problem that
shuts down the entire console is probably not all that difficult to
find and fix, it's the little things that cause problems with certain
channels or certain routing paths that will make your tech scratch his
head.
Eeyore
rapha...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi.
>
> What's the dimensions of an old SSL 4000 E with 48ch, VU (not plasma)
> and patchpay?
Just curious why anyone would actually WANT metering as bad as VUs provide
today.
Graham
Scott Dorsey
>
>What's the dimensions of an old SSL 4000 E with 48ch, VU (not plasma)
>and patchpay?
It's large. You should be able to get a complete manual from SSL, which
will have the dimensions available.
>How "cheap" can I get one in working condition today?
Dunno.
>What about maintenance, too much headache, or normal?
Well, it's no worse than other large format consoles of that era, probably
a little easier to work on. You will need a full-time maintenance tech
on staff for any of these.
If it is just in "working" condition and has not had proper maintenance, of
course, it will become your worst nightmare.
>Can you estimate the value of this console in about 7 to 10 years in
>the future?
No, I have learned not to try and predict these things. And personally,
I find the SSLs excruciating to work on because of the convoluted signal
path and all the crap in it... it can be an adventure to try and disable
everything and shorten things up.
I will say that the SSL is much more apt to maintain its value just because
of the nameplate, compared with other large format consoles of that era.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Romeo Rondeau
> I find the SSLs excruciating to work on because of the convoluted signal
> path and all the crap in it... it can be an adventure to try and disable
> everything and shorten things up.
>
> I will say that the SSL is much more apt to maintain its value just because
> of the nameplate, compared with other large format consoles of that era.
> --scott
Not to mention the photo opportunity of leaning over the console in
front of the SSL logo with that "I spent more on my console than you
spent on your house" look on your face :-)
rapha...@gmail.com
So, can you give me a good alternative, between US$ 30K to US$ 50K ?
It must have automation (VCA is ok, no need for moving fader, but no
windows driven), 40-48ch, and onboard dynamics is a plus.
Apart from the SSL, I was thinking in Soundtracs Jade and Otari
Concept One.
Thanks in advance,
Raphael Rosenthal
Scott Dorsey
For what? Do you need something with a big name for advertising purposes?
Are you recording to tape, or to a workstation? Can you live with a
side-by-side configuration?
>It must have automation (VCA is ok, no need for moving fader, but no
>windows driven), 40-48ch, and onboard dynamics is a plus.
These days with workstation editing so popular, many of the large format
consoles actually don't have conventional automation.
>Apart from the SSL, I was thinking in Soundtracs Jade and Otari
>Concept One.
Not bad. Studer also made some automated units, and I think there are
some Harrison units that might fit your bill.
Your goal is probably to buy the console that is in the best condition
more than anything else. Since these things were not made in huge
quantities and many of them have custom alterations, your best bet is to
call a broker and explain what you want and have him look around.
Eeyore
John wrote:
> I like VU metering and having those levels displayed on good old
> mechanical meters like a Simpson. They really are the deal if you know
> what you are doing.
The 'deal' for what exactly ?
There's no way whatever they can ever give you a decent idea if a signal's
likely to clip for example. I've heard lots of 'muzzy' audio from US
broadcasters which I put down to using VUs. European broadcasters use PPMs and
they don't clip the audio.
Graham
Mike Rivers
wrote:
> There's no way whatever they can ever give you a decent idea if a signal's
> likely to clip for example. I've heard lots of 'muzzy' audio from US
> broadcasters which I put down to using VUs. European broadcasters use PPMs and
> they don't clip the audio.
I've heard "muzzy" music from British bands which I put down to using
drums.
Meters don't prevent clipping, they only tell you when it has
occurred. The way to make clean recordings is to listen for problems
and fix them. VU meters, if properly calibrated, work well on music
that has normal dynamic range. If you create music that doesn't "look"
right on a VU meter, you probalby don't want to listen to it for other
reasons.
It's true that VU meters, unless they also have peak indicators, don't
indicate peak levels. But your ears and good taste can do that. If
they don't, then you're in the wrong business.
Scott Dorsey
>
>There's no way whatever they can ever give you a decent idea if a signal's
>likely to clip for example. I've heard lots of 'muzzy' audio from US
>broadcasters which I put down to using VUs. European broadcasters use PPMs and
>they don't clip the audio.
That's true, but they give a pretty good rough idea of perceived loudness.
This is a handy thing.
And if you're so close to the clipping point that you need really good
metering, maybe you want a little more headroom anyway....
Mike Rivers
> If the audio is clipping because of the operator referencing a VU meter,
> either the gain structure is not set up well or the signal path is in
> dire need of headroom. Given the common standard of 0 VU = +4DBu, there
> is generally 15 to 20 db (or more) of headroom over 0VU in the
> professional equipment I use. If there is clipping in that sort of
> setup, I'd say that's more an operator problem but then I also said "if
> you know what you are doing". lots of so called engineers don't have a
> clue.
The problem appears when these young whippersnappers compress every
channel so that there's very little dynamic range until the music
stops. Then when they set things up so the VU meters read close to
zero, the lack of peaks (taken care of by the compression) makes the
tracks appepar to be recorded at a low level.
We can't have that, now, can we?