AKG C 451 B vs Neumann KM 184 - Opinions
Lee Asnin
recommend between the AKG C 451 B and the Neumann KM 184?
Thanks in advance!
Lee
Stephen Boyke
specifically and solely for recording acoustic guitar, fingerstyle
(i.e., Kottke, De Grassi, Hedges, etc.). I ended up choosing the
Neumann TLM 103. An amazing mike for the price. I didn't need the
extra patterns or roll off provided by the AKG 414, although those are
features the TLM 103 (and KM 184) do not have. In any event, I now also
have a KM 184, which is a very nice mike too. Although many will
reccommend the 184 over the 103 for acoustic guitar, I'm in the opposite
camp, at least for the nuances of solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar.
BTW, get a great preamp too.
--
Stephen T. Boyke
Adam Tews
better sound... But what's important is how the mic sounds on your
particular instrument. If you have both mics in your closet, try them both;
if you're going to buy one, buy both (if that's financially possible) and
try them - keep the one you prefer, return the other. If you can bring the
guitar to the store (with the player, if it's not you ;-)), do it. Have
them set up each mic on a nice preamp, and listen on some good headphones
such as Sony MDR-7506 or some nice Sennheisers.
"Lee Asnin" <las...@ptialaska.net> wrote in message
news:3C75CD57...@ptialaska.net...
Scott Dorsey
Lee Asnin <las...@ptialaska.net> wrote:
>For recording steel string acoustic guitar, which mic, & why, would you
>recommend between the AKG C 451 B and the Neumann KM 184?
The one that sounds better on that particular guitar. The KM184 has a lot
more top end than the 451, which might be good or bad depending on the guitar
and room.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
jsp...@smumn.edu
X-Y fashion up close to the guitar. I was quite happy with the results. I had
the 103 towards the body and the 184 towards the neck.
jason
Jason Spartz
Multimedia & IT Support Manager
Saint Mary's University
Winona MN 55987
jsp...@smumn.edu
In article <3C75E102...@attbi.com>, Stephen says...
Casey
the soundhole, the other at roughly the 12th to 9th fret, both around 6" from
instrument. Very happy with the results.
Casey
S C Digital Services
WillStG
>I recorded an acoustic guitar a while back with the TLM-103 and the KM-184 in
an X-Y fashion up close to the guitar. I was quite happy with the results. I
had the 103 towards the body and the 184 towards the neck.>
I have done the unmatched mic pair on acoustic guitar thing with a U-87,
which I think is similar to using a TLM-103 in that you can work the proximity
effect of the mic. I like that effect.
Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Rick Ruskin
sound particularly good on anything. They live someplace else now.
The km 184 is a much nicer mic for a fairly wide variety of signal
sources, imho.
Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com
Rick Krizman
Lee Asnin wrote:
> For recording steel string acoustic guitar, which mic, & why, would you
> recommend between the AKG C 451 B and the Neumann KM 184?
>
Since I got the 184's I haven't used the 451's. It just seems to have
more "grab"--more meaty and 3-dimensional, and overall just more real.
IMO.
-R
BK 4 MEDIA
acoustic git. I actually point the mic past the bridge into the body of the
git to control the top end and pick noise. I could send ya an mp3 if you want
to hear a slice. I would actually like to get a stereo pair of the original
451's if anyone has them
Ty Ford
An interesting string. I have a pair of the new 451 here now for a PAR
review. I compared them recently with a pair of old 451 (no bass roll off).
The newer ones had a bit more 5-6k and slightly less bottom. They also have
a two-position pad and two-position LF rolloff.
They had significantly less selfnoise than the earlier model and passed the
key jangle test much better.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Ty Ford's web site is http://www.jagunet.com/~tford.
Check it out for voiceover samples and audio equipment reviews.
Rick Ruskin
>
>An interesting string. I have a pair of the new 451 here now for a PAR
>review. I compared them recently with a pair of old 451 (no bass roll off).
>The newer ones had a bit more 5-6k and slightly less bottom. They also have
>a two-position pad and two-position LF rolloff.
>
>They had significantly less selfnoise than the earlier model and passed the
>key jangle test much better.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ty Ford
>
>Ty Ford's web site is http://www.jagunet.com/~tford.
>Check it out for voiceover samples and audio equipment reviews.
the trick now is to see if another pair sounds the same as the one
yo've just tested.. I've never known any 2 451's to sound the same.
Very loose qc on that capsule.
Mike Rivers
> the trick now is to see if another pair sounds the same as the one
> yo've just tested.. I've never known any 2 451's to sound the same.
> Very loose qc on that capsule.
I suspect that the capsules for this mic are being made on AKG's
relatively new automated assembly/test line. That's what let them drop
the prices on some of the popular mics by close to half, and tighten
up production tolerances along with it.
If the two that Ty has for review match up pretty closely, that's a
good sign.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mri...@d-and-d.com)
hank alrich
> In Article <20020223010836...@mb-cl.aol.com>, bk4m...@aol.com
> (BK 4 MEDIA) wrote:
> >I think both are good mics. I have been getting great results from a 451
> >on acoustic git. I actually point the mic past the bridge into the body
> >of the git to control the top end and pick noise. I could send ya an mp3
> >if you want to hear a slice. I would actually like to get a stereo pair
> >of the original 451's if anyone has them
> An interesting string. I have a pair of the new 451 here now for a PAR
> review. I compared them recently with a pair of old 451 (no bass roll off).
> The newer ones had a bit more 5-6k and slightly less bottom. They also have
> a two-position pad and two-position LF rolloff.
> They had significantly less selfnoise than the earlier model and passed the
> key jangle test much better.
How would you characterise them versus the 480?
--
hank alrich * secret__mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
Blind Joni
>> key jangle test much better.
>
Someone walked behind the vocalist here today and jangled their keys..I was
supprised how natural it sounded...
Shure KSM 32 -Voxbox -Requisite L1
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Albany, NY
"Survivor of the Slums"
Lorin David Schultz
>
> I think the KM 184 is considered a "higher end" mic
BZZT! Same category, just newer.
> and may have an overall better sound...
In much the same way that carrots tastes better than peas... sort of a
personal preference thing, don't you think?
> But what's important is how the mic sounds on your particular
> instrument.
Ding ding ding! Hey, you got one! <g>
> If you can bring the guitar to the store (with the player, if it's
> not you ;-)), do it. Have them set up each mic on a nice preamp,
That's gonna be a bit of a challenge, since the 451 was discontinued
years ago. Or are we talking about the "reissue" I heard someone
muttering about months ago, about the time I was checking out of this
bubble factory? If we are, then maybe there's less here to consider
than I thought. I haven't heard them myself, but I've been offered less
than flattering opinions from others who claim to have heard it.
> and listen on some good headphones such as Sony MDR-7506
Make up your mind -- did you mean good headphones, or... <g>
- Lorin David Schultz
Canada 5
USA 2
Andre Maquera
> Someone walked behind the vocalist here today and jangled their keys..
Sounds like you need tighter security in the vocal booth<g>
Andre Maquera
West Street Digital Inc.
http://www.weststreetdigital.com/
http://www.8084.com/
ScotFraser
In article <3C75CD57...@ptialaska.net>, Lee wrote:
<< For recording steel string acoustic guitar, which mic, & why, would you
recommend between the AKG C 451 B and the Neumann KM 184? >>
Not that you asked but I would go with a KM84 (if you can find one) or a KM140
(if you can afford one). I occasionally like a 451, though, if the guitar needs
a big lift on the high end.
Scott Fraser
ScotFraser
<< The KM184 has a lot
more top end than the 451, which might be good or bad depending on the guitar
and room. >>
I don't use KM184s but if this is true this would be an incredibly bright mic.
The 451's are shockingly bright & I can't imagine much usefulness to anything
being even brighter than that.
Scott Fraser
ScotFraser
In article <3C76C11D...@mediaone.net>, Rick wrote:
<< Since I got the 184's I haven't used the 451's. It just seems to have
more "grab"--more meaty and 3-dimensional, and overall just more real.
IMO. >>
Every Neumann I've ever used has more 3 dimensionality than every AKG I've ever
used, though 3 dimensionality isn't always the main goal, which is why I still
own some AKGs.
Scott Fraser
Rick Krizman
scotf...@aol.com wrote on 2/25/02 1:24 PM:
>
> In article <a55ktu$86s$1...@panix2.panix.com>, klu...@panix.com wrote:
>
> << The KM184 has a lot
> more top end than the 451, which might be good or bad depending on the guitar
> and room. >>
I have both and find the 451 to be the hands-down brighter mic, and
infinitely less useful and versatile than the 184.
-R
LS1productions
infinitely less useful and versatile than the 184. >>
I too find the 451 brighter then the 184s, but it is a cool mic to tape onto a
57 and throw it over a snare, you don't need to add top end.
ScotFraser
In article <20020225182906...@mb-fi.aol.com>,
ls1prod...@aol.com wrote:
<< I too find the 451 brighter then the 184s, but it is a cool mic to tape onto
a
57 and throw it over a snare, you don't need to add top end. >>
A 451 with an A51 swivel adaptor has been my snare mic of choice for years.
Scott Fraser
ScotFraser
In article <B89FEFF4.8CF9%rkri...@mediaone.net>, Rick wrote:
<< I have both and find the 451 to be the hands-down brighter mic, and
infinitely less useful and versatile than the 184. >>
I use my 451s on drums when I'm looking for an over-the-top in-your-face kinda
thing. Not natural or realistic at all, but occasionally fun as an effect.
Scott Fraser
Ty Ford
It's a question of distance and volume. The older 451 sounded great over
the drums, with the cymbals never breaking it up. It was, however, much more
distorted than the new 451 at closer distances.
Ty Ford
Hmmm. I didn't find the new 451 shockingly bright. a bit more 5-6k than the
old ones we were listening to, but not shockingly.
Ty
hank alrich
> I don't use KM184s but if this is true this would be an incredibly bright mic.
> The 451's are shockingly bright & I can't imagine much usefulness to anything
> being even brighter than that.
As Rick Ruskin has suggested, C451s are inconsistent; the one I have
happens to be toward the very mellow and smooth side of the 451 spectrum
and I can use it all kinds of places.
When I was putting up mics for Laurie Lewis, Tom Rozum saw the 451 for
his mandolin and commented that those were generally too bright for
this. I said it was the closest thing I had to the rider request for a
460 or 480 and would he be willing to try it. Yep, and when he did he
was seriously pleased.
Rick Krizman
scotf...@aol.com wrote on 2/25/02 7:48 PM:
That reminds me of a session 20 years ago when we miked a whole rototom kit,
including snare, with 451's--awesome sound. I'll have to try that on snare
again.
-R
Mark Stebbeds
agree that the KM184 is probably more useful, but I hate having one of
anything. Maybe we can work something out if the price is right. I
just used one this weekend.
Email me.
Mark
On Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:43:11 GMT, Rick Krizman <rkri...@mediaone.net>
wrote:
Lorin David Schultz
>
> When I was putting up mics for Laurie Lewis, Tom Rozum saw the 451 for
> his mandolin and commented that those were generally too bright for
> this. I said it was the closest thing I had to the rider request for a
> 460 or 480 and would he be willing to try it. Yep, and when he did he
> was seriously pleased.
A 451 is too bright (in his opinion), but he asked for a *460*?! That's
like saying "the chocolate is too sweet; please use sugar instead."
--