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geoff
May 20, 2019, 7:08:35 AM5/20/19
to
Anybody know the power/current consumption of an ST-11. I have a USA
version coming and will need to build or source a 110v 60Hz
inverter/whatever supply to run it from 230v 50Hz.
Doesn't mention the power spec in the manual, though it does have
schematic and component list !
geoff
version coming and will need to build or source a 110v 60Hz
inverter/whatever supply to run it from 230v 50Hz.
Doesn't mention the power spec in the manual, though it does have
schematic and component list !
geoff
Mike Rivers
May 20, 2019, 7:58:42 AM5/20/19
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On 5/20/2019 7:08 AM, geoff wrote:
> Anybody know the power/current consumption of an ST-11
Like anyone else who doesn't have one and an ammeter, I don't know. But
> Anybody know the power/current consumption of an ST-11
I'll remind you that it's a synchronous motor that makes it work, so the
accuracy of the 60 Hz is of utmost importance if you actually intend to
tune with it and not just show it off to your buddies.
When you get it, hook up an oscillator (at 60 Hz, of course) to a power
amplifier, and connect the tuner to the amplifier output through a
backwards filament transformer. Bring up the gain slowly while
monitoring the voltage to the tuner, and when it reads 115 or 120 volts,
measure the current.
I have a friend who's into aircraft instruments, most of which run on
400 Hz AC. He's set up a similar osciallator-amplifier-transformer rig
to play with his toys.
Scott Dorsey
May 20, 2019, 8:23:21 AM5/20/19
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versions was the strobe disc, and you might be able to order a 50 Hz strobe
disc.
If you run it on inverter, that inverter needs to be VERY precisely on
frequency. Crystal control, no free-running oscillator.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
geoff
May 20, 2019, 5:08:27 PM5/20/19
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before getting more committed to the 60Hz thing.
Though myself a bit of a floydie, primary purpose is for back-line hire
for bands who want "show it off to their buddies" ie audience.
FWIW I have a D28 and Hummingbird going out shortly to The Monkees (or
what is left of them). Dunno if that's something to skite about or not.
geoff
geoff
May 22, 2019, 1:17:45 AM5/22/19
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The 60Hz mains frequency (x2=120Hz) is only used for the 'Calibrate'
function, and the unit can be calibrated equally well from a precise
musical-note tone.
geoff
John Williamson
May 22, 2019, 4:03:53 AM5/22/19
to
phase locked loop locked to the local mains frequency. That will give
the genuine variation in tuning over time as the mains frequency drifts
a bit. ;-)
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
Mike Rivers
May 22, 2019, 9:17:44 PM5/22/19
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On 5/22/2019 1:17 AM, geoff wrote:
> Looks like the unit natively runs on a RC-based local oscillator.
>
> The 60Hz mains frequency (x2=120Hz) is only used for the 'Calibrate'
> function, and the unit can be calibrated equally well from a precise
> musical-note tone.
Did you find a schematic somewhere? I seem to remember mention of a
> Looks like the unit natively runs on a RC-based local oscillator.
>
> The 60Hz mains frequency (x2=120Hz) is only used for the 'Calibrate'
> function, and the unit can be calibrated equally well from a precise
> musical-note tone.
synchronous motor driving the strobe disk, but that might have been
another model. Seems reasonable, though, to be able to adjust the speed
of the strobe disk so you can "zero" it on an off-pitch piano or an
orchestra that likes to play to an A different from 440 Hz.
--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
Scott Dorsey
May 22, 2019, 9:20:31 PM5/22/19
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ones and the earlier solid state ones, but I haven't worked on any of
the current models. I'm a bit worried about how much an RC oscillator
would drift, but as long as you check it every time you use it, why not?
You could still cal against a 50 Hz signal, it would just be a different
note.
geoff
May 22, 2019, 11:51:33 PM5/22/19
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The dedicated CAL function expects a 60Hz mains, but it can be
calibrated from any known source without switching to 'CAL'.
Schematic and parts list are in the user manual ( !!! ).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bytbnzbvt0ofwq3/Conn_Strobotuner_ST-11_Manual.pdf?dl=0
Stability is/was good enough for many significant studios and
musicians/bands/orchestras. But they do warn to calibrate for every
session....
If the mains transformer can't be jumpered for 220vac, I will get a
replacement (available) and find the Rs and Cs to change for 50Hz. And
may as well change all those old resistors with 1% all around, and recap
for good measure.
geoff
Mike Rivers
May 23, 2019, 7:37:32 AM5/23/19
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On 5/22/2019 11:51 PM, geoff wrote:
> If the mains transformer can't be jumpered for 220vac, I will get a
> replacement (available) and find the Rs and Cs to change for 50Hz. And
> may as well change all those old resistors with 1% all around, and recap
> for good measure.
If yours is like the schematic, the transformer has two primary windings
> If the mains transformer can't be jumpered for 220vac, I will get a
> replacement (available) and find the Rs and Cs to change for 50Hz. And
> may as well change all those old resistors with 1% all around, and recap
> for good measure.
connected in parallel. Rewire them in series and it should work on 220v.
There's "magnetic polarity" so be sure maintain that when rewiring. Pay
attention to the wire colors and connect it up so that it looks like
there's an unused center tap on the primary.
Before you change the oscillator components, see if you can get a 50 Hz
strobe disk. Somebody who gets it after you're bored with it might want
it "vintage."
John Williamson
May 23, 2019, 9:10:05 AM5/23/19
to
using a local RC oscillator, which is divided in frequency under the
control of the diode matrix and ICs according to the settings of the
note selector knob to drive a synchronous motor attached to the strobe
disc at a variable speed. The light is flashed at audio frequency by a
transistor driven into saturation once per cycle of the input frequency.
The combination of the differing strobe disc speeds and the audio
frequency flashing of the neon gives stationary patterns at the various
note frequencies, with the differing rings being more clearly visible at
different octaves.
As such, the tuning is independent of the mains frequency, and the only
time the mains frequency is relevant is when the unit is being calibrated.
So, the disc and all the electronics are exactly the same for 50 and 60
Hz machines. The only caveat will be that the power transformer *may* be
designed for 60 Hz, and you may need a different one for 50 Hz, even at
110 Volts, as the lower frequency may cause it to overheat. Subject to
that caveat, use a 60 Hz reference tone for calibration fed in to the
mic input from a signal generator, and you'll be fine. To get the right
voltage, use a site dropper transformer, which gives 110 Volts at the
output from a 230 volt input. Available ex stock from any builders'
merchant in the UK for about seventy pounds sterling plus twenty or so
for the plugs and sockets needed to connect it.
Another alternative is to import a 110 V 60 Hz inverter as used in many
American RVs and boats, and power that off a lead acid battery which
will give about 10 minutes of use per amp hour of capacity. A 150 watt
inverter should be big enough, but make sure it is pure sine wave, not
modified, as the modifoed sine wave will generate interference on the
electronics, and may damage the power transformer.
geoff
May 23, 2019, 4:03:21 PM5/23/19
to
Might be worth considering as a simple project popping in a stable and
precise oscillator.
>
> Another alternative is to import a 110 V 60 Hz inverter as used in many
> American RVs and boats, and power that off a lead acid battery which
> will give about 10 minutes of use per amp hour of capacity. A 150 watt
> inverter should be big enough, but make sure it is pure sine wave, not
> modified, as the modifoed sine wave will generate interference on the
> electronics, and may damage the power transformer.
>
Marginal gain through having 60Hz power as a target. Will see if the
xformer is, as the schem suggests, in reality strappable for 220v.
geoff
gray_wolf
May 23, 2019, 8:46:53 PM5/23/19
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geoff
May 23, 2019, 9:53:26 PM5/23/19
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On 24/05/2019 12:46 PM, gray_wolf wrote:
>>
>
> Nobody uses tuning fork anymore? The battery lasts forever.
>
I've got one. Somewhere. Changes pitch with temperature. Not very
>>
>
> Nobody uses tuning fork anymore? The battery lasts forever.
>
visual. Dents guitar lacquer ;-)
geoff
Phil Allison
May 23, 2019, 10:27:03 PM5/23/19
to
geoff wrote:
>
> >>
> >
> > Nobody uses tuning fork anymore? The battery lasts forever.
> >
>
> I've got one. Somewhere. Changes pitch with temperature.
>
** How silly, so does everything.
>
> >>
> >
> > Nobody uses tuning fork anymore? The battery lasts forever.
> >
>
> I've got one. Somewhere. Changes pitch with temperature.
>
Tuning forks are very stable, used in Boliva watches and older guitar tuners from Roland.
.... Phil
TimR
May 24, 2019, 8:31:38 AM5/24/19
to
They are a good thing as well as an annoyance. You get the occasional player who ignores the group and plays out of tune, insisting he's the only one correct, based on his tuner. But I recall the days when you never knew what pitch a group would be playing at, and had to be prepared to move at least a quarter tone up or down on the fly, sometimes more. The availability of cheap tuners means every group I play with is at least close to A440.
polymod
May 24, 2019, 10:22:20 AM5/24/19
to
"gray_wolf" wrote in message news:Z9HFE.3764$9A4....@fx02.iad...
<snip>
>Nobody uses tuning fork anymore? The battery lasts forever.
For quick work I also have an original Hale Sight-O-Tuner from the old
Tuner's Supply House.
Poly
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Mike Rivers
May 24, 2019, 7:47:32 PM5/24/19
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On 5/24/2019 8:31 AM, TimR wrote:
> Which brings up another question: how stable are the cheap ubiquitous electronic tuners? Every musician I know has one, they run less than $20
They're accurate, but most don't have good enough resolution to get
> Which brings up another question: how stable are the cheap ubiquitous electronic tuners? Every musician I know has one, they run less than $20
right on pitch, but, as we say in folk music, they're good enough for
folk music. They're of no use when there's a fixed-tuned instrument and
everyone else has to tune to that. That's where a Strobe tuner or
something that displays cents off pitch is useful.
I use a phone app called Pitchlab, and there are several that have a
strobe-like display or meter that let you get closer than just the note
readout changing from red to green.
geoff
May 24, 2019, 10:23:53 PM5/24/19
to
bought out Conn) is pretty good for $12 . Android or Apple versions.
geoff
thekma...@gmail.com
May 26, 2019, 11:35:09 AM5/26/19
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geoff:
Is "Conn" the brand name? I cannot seem to
find out anything about them on the internet
when I Googled the term.
Is "Conn" the brand name? I cannot seem to
find out anything about them on the internet
when I Googled the term.
MiNe109
May 26, 2019, 11:43:52 AM5/26/19
to
bandrooms.
http://www.terrysmythe.ca/st-6.htm
Stephen
thekma...@gmail.com
May 26, 2019, 12:17:33 PM5/26/19
to
MiNe109:
Thanks! Clears everything up. I will definitely read that
manual and study the history of Conn Corpp.
Thanks! Clears everything up. I will definitely read that
manual and study the history of Conn Corpp.
geoff
May 26, 2019, 8:23:46 PM5/26/19
to
http://bfy.tw/Npvp
Um, a bit more that high-school bandrooms. And still nice stage
furniture (or more than that) if you are David Gilmour and many others.
geoff
geoff
May 26, 2019, 8:45:28 PM5/26/19
to
TimR
May 29, 2019, 9:06:17 AM5/29/19
to
On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:47:32 PM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
>
> They're accurate, but most don't have good enough resolution to get
> right on pitch, but, as we say in folk music, they're good enough for
> folk music. They're of no use when there's a fixed-tuned instrument and
> everyone else has to tune to that. That's where a Strobe tuner or
> something that displays cents off pitch is useful.
Wait, people can't hear when they're out of tune? Can't tune a pure unison by ear?
>
> They're accurate, but most don't have good enough resolution to get
> right on pitch, but, as we say in folk music, they're good enough for
> folk music. They're of no use when there's a fixed-tuned instrument and
> everyone else has to tune to that. That's where a Strobe tuner or
> something that displays cents off pitch is useful.
If that skill is missing seems like a strobe tuner will get at best one note in tune.
Before electronic tuners sometimes a group would be so far off pitch, the individual instrument couldn't get in tune. Now that the center pitch is more standardized, instrument limitations become less important.
Scott Dorsey
May 29, 2019, 11:08:50 AM5/29/19
to
TimR <timot...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:47:32 PM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
>>
>> They're accurate, but most don't have good enough resolution to get
>> right on pitch, but, as we say in folk music, they're good enough for
>> folk music. They're of no use when there's a fixed-tuned instrument and
>> everyone else has to tune to that. That's where a Strobe tuner or
>> something that displays cents off pitch is useful.
>
>Wait, people can't hear when they're out of tune? Can't tune a pure unison by ear?
What does "in tune" mean anyway? Pianos are never really in tune. With
>On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:47:32 PM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
>>
>> They're accurate, but most don't have good enough resolution to get
>> right on pitch, but, as we say in folk music, they're good enough for
>> folk music. They're of no use when there's a fixed-tuned instrument and
>> everyone else has to tune to that. That's where a Strobe tuner or
>> something that displays cents off pitch is useful.
>
>Wait, people can't hear when they're out of tune? Can't tune a pure unison by ear?
lots of instruments, you don't -want- a pure unison.
>If that skill is missing seems like a strobe tuner will get at best one note in tune.
of the note and sometimes about weird sidebands on the note. Not that you
can't hear these things under reasonable conditions, but you aren't always
working under reasonable conditions.
The strobe tuner is for more than just simple tuning.
>Before electronic tuners sometimes a group would be so far off pitch, the individual instrument couldn't get in tune. Now that the center pitch is more standardized, instrument limitations become less important.
A=442 and one that sets down to something weird and crazy to match the note
of an organ whose longest pipe was cut to fit a ship's hold in 1729 and
everything else tuned with reference to that.
People don't even agree on temperament. And THEN you get some guy who wants
to play the sitar with the rest of the rock band... and don't get me started
about great highland pipes...
Fred McKenzie
May 29, 2019, 12:29:36 PM5/29/19
to
In article <bb162d6f-c181-4d26...@googlegroups.com>,
"Carl Fisher Artist Model" Clarinet. I had to pull the barrel way out
to tune it to A=440.
Years later I found that it was made for "High Pitch", maybe A=450? You
could tune for concert Bb, but then the throat tones were extremely flat.
Talk about a bad ear!
Fred
TimR <timot...@aol.com> wrote:
> Wait, people can't hear when they're out of tune? Can't tune a pure unison
> by ear?
>
> If that skill is missing seems like a strobe tuner will get at best one note
> in tune.
How right you are. In the 7th grade, my parents got me a used wooden
> Wait, people can't hear when they're out of tune? Can't tune a pure unison
> by ear?
>
> If that skill is missing seems like a strobe tuner will get at best one note
> in tune.
"Carl Fisher Artist Model" Clarinet. I had to pull the barrel way out
to tune it to A=440.
Years later I found that it was made for "High Pitch", maybe A=450? You
could tune for concert Bb, but then the throat tones were extremely flat.
Talk about a bad ear!
Fred
polymod
May 29, 2019, 1:02:38 PM5/29/19
to
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message news:qcm79u$5tv$1...@panix2.panix.com...
<snip>
People don't even agree on temperament. And THEN you get some guy who wants
to play the sitar with the rest of the rock band... and don't get me
started
about great highland pipes...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Best laugh I had all day!
geoff
May 29, 2019, 4:05:38 PM5/29/19
to
On 30/05/2019 1:06 AM, TimR wrote:
> On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:47:32 PM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
>>
>> They're accurate, but most don't have good enough resolution to get
>> right on pitch, but, as we say in folk music, they're good enough for
>> folk music. They're of no use when there's a fixed-tuned instrument and
>> everyone else has to tune to that. That's where a Strobe tuner or
>> something that displays cents off pitch is useful.
>
> Wait, people can't hear when they're out of tune? Can't tune a pure unison by ear?
>
> If that skill is missing seems like a strobe tuner will get at best one note in tune.
>
You do need to get one note in tune before you can do anything
> On Friday, May 24, 2019 at 7:47:32 PM UTC-4, Mike Rivers wrote:
>>
>> They're accurate, but most don't have good enough resolution to get
>> right on pitch, but, as we say in folk music, they're good enough for
>> folk music. They're of no use when there's a fixed-tuned instrument and
>> everyone else has to tune to that. That's where a Strobe tuner or
>> something that displays cents off pitch is useful.
>
> Wait, people can't hear when they're out of tune? Can't tune a pure unison by ear?
>
> If that skill is missing seems like a strobe tuner will get at best one note in tune.
>
worthwhile. The rest is ease, convenience, and time.
geoff
Les Cargill
May 29, 2019, 10:09:21 PM5/29/19
to
Scott Dorsey wrote:
<snip>
> And THEN you get some guy who wants
> to play the sitar with the rest of the rock band...
This is why there's the Coral Sitar...
and don't get me started
> about great highland pipes...
Those are weapons masquerading a a musical instrument.
> --scott
>
--
Les Cargill
<snip>
> And THEN you get some guy who wants
> to play the sitar with the rest of the rock band...
and don't get me started
> about great highland pipes...
> --scott
>
--
Les Cargill
Trevor
May 30, 2019, 10:24:20 PM5/30/19
to
On 30/05/2019 12:11 pm, Les Cargill wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> <snip>
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> <snip>
> and don't get me started
>> about great highland pipes...
>
> Those are weapons masquerading a a musical instrument.
Not much of a masquerade though.
>> about great highland pipes...
>
> Those are weapons masquerading a a musical instrument.
Richard Kuschel
Jun 28, 2019, 10:29:51 AM6/28/19
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