Trident Series 65 upgrades
Twist Turner
work on my Series 65. About a year or so ago I replaced the line in and mic
pre chips with Burr Brown OPA132's. That was a huge improvement. With the
stock TL071's it sounded somewhat muddy to me. I tried using them in the
whole strip but they pull more current and I guess it couldn't handle it,
it sounded awful, so I kept the TL071's in there where they were, except for
the line in an mic pre chips.
The first thing I did last week was to recap 2 channel strips with Panasonic
105 degree caps. I noticed a much improved bottom end. I could hear much
more punch and definition in the bottom end. So for the last week I have
been soldering my ass off and just finished all the channel strips today. I
still have the master fader to do. While doing this I accidently blew some
chips in the eq section of one channel(don't even ask, I did something
stupid, like plugging it in with the board turned on and missing it by 1
pin) . So I needed to replace the chips with something just to see if it
was working. I remembered I had a bunch of Motorola MC34081BP chips laying
around. I had bought them to see whether I prefered them or the Burr Browns
when I upgraded the line in/mic pre chips. For that use I thought the Burr
Brown had alot more balls and was warmer sounding. Well I replaced all the
other chips(9 of them) in the strip with the Motorola's and what a
differnce. It is like 2 differnt consoles. I found alot more definition
both in the bottom and on top. The TL071's now sounded extremly thinner and
harsh sounding to me in comparison. So looks like I'll be placing a large
order for the Motorolas.
So far if any one is interested in getting a better sound on these I would
recomend.
1)Replace the line in and Mic pre chips with Burr Brown OPA132's(the top 2
chips in the strip)
2)Relace the remaining chips with Motorola MC34081BP's
3)Recap the entire console(its a lot of work but worth it in the long run)
Does anyone know any mods to the power supply to raise the rail voltage? I
have heard that would make a large improvement in sound also.
The other thing is those stupid VU meter lights, they are expensive and
blink off and on. I heard of some one using yellow neon bulb and soldering
them in place. Anyone done this? What bulbs? I'll probably try and figure
this out on my own this week but if anyone has any tips, send them my way.
Thanks and good luck
Twist Turner
John
molex buss and replace it with ribbon cable and d-bus connectors.
This helps eliminate those terrible intermitent problems that always
seem to float around from channel to channel. I would personally
scrap the trident power supply which was basically tridents comment to
me. It can be perfectly replaced with a Mackie 8-bus power supply
(believe it or not!) You just have to create a connector for it which
is easy. The rail voltages are slightly higher and balanced and
strong. As far as the meter lights go, Radio crap has got standard
led's (6v I think) that will work but you might want to experiment
with this do to difference in Lumen output. You will usually have to
solder these in place. Hope this helps!
Johnny
Valley Arts Recording
604 Cusseta Rd.
Valley, AL 36854
334-756-6089
On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 22:01:37 GMT, "Twist Turner" <twi...@flash.net>
wrote:
carpedonut
Twist Turner wrote:
One question regarding your rechipping experiments. Did you compare the Motorola
chips against the TL071's already in your board, or did you try fresh TL071's
against the Motorolas? Just replacing the old chips with the same brand and
model will make a big difference.
We've tried a bunch of different types of chips in our 80B, and some sounded
cleaner, but a lot of the character of the board disappeared. Ultimately, we
ended up sticking with TL071's and regularly replacing them every few years.
Also, you're right, the recapping is a huge improvement in these boards. It's
kind of like tipping the thing on its side and blowing out all the dust, it
completely opens up.
Which faders do you have in your console? Upgrading the cheap Trident faders
makes another big difference.
Cheers,
Sean Carberry
--
Christ died for our sins. Dare we make his martyrdom meaningless
by not committing them? - Jules Feiffer
Brian Birge
can't exactly remember) resistor in case of shorts. In retrospect I probably
should have wired in parallel for higher intensity and I'll probably do it
someday but either way works much better than replacing those damn bulbs all the
time. - Brian
Twist Turner
They don't have the same character but are a little cleaner and more
detailed sounding. I like that on the eq but not on the line in's/mic
pre's. The Burr Brown was the clear winner for me on the inputs/mic pre.
I have the ALP's faders and have had no problem with them. What do you
recommend for an upgrade for those? I know good faders don't come cheap,
I'm assuming my money might be better spent working on the power supply.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
carpedonut wrote in message <38825340...@earthlink.net>...
Hanno di Rosa
cable.
made a big difference after. I still cant believe how many so called 'pro' mixers
today are made with flat ribbon cable as connection between channel and bus-amp.
makes the crosstalk really happen !
ciao
hanno
carpedonut wrote:
> > The other thing is those stupid VU meter lights, they are expensive and
> > blink off and on. I heard of some one using yellow neon bulb and soldering
> > them in place. Anyone done this? What bulbs? I'll probably try and figure
> > this out on my own this week but if anyone has any tips, send them my way.
> >
> > Thanks and good luck
Monte P McGuire
Twist Turner <twi...@flash.net> wrote:
>Does anyone know any mods to the power supply to raise the rail voltage? I
>have heard that would make a large improvement in sound also.
IC console designs are generally not workable with high voltage rails.
You can go to just under 18V rails generally, but I would closely
check to see what ICs are in use everywhere an make absoluetly certain
that they can handle it. I think most Trident designs used +-17V, but
I could be wrong. Also look for discrete circuitry - I don't know
about the 65, but a lot of designs have discrete transistors in places
like the mike amps, and they might not perform properly if you change
the supply voltage. You might be able to reroute the supply wiring so
that things like the meters still get the old voltage and the audio
path gets the new voltage, but you do have to carefully and
exhaustively examine the entire console's circuitry. If your 65 runs
on +-17, you're just about at the maximum for conventional chips, so
unless you want to go to the OPA604/2604 (see below), you can't do
much better.
If you do change the supply, I'd recommend getting a new one rather
than hacking the old one for higher voltage. It sounds like it's
already a bit too small if you couldn't use the Burr Brown chips
everywhere. Something like an old Lambda, Power One or Sorenson
regulated linear supply might be a great choice. For a console sized
load, I'd imagine you'll have to buy two supplies, one for the
positive supply and one for the negative supply since the bipolar
supplies aren't generally available in large sizes. I'd also get a
good quality DVM to check the supply voltage before you hook anything
up to the console. Many of these supplies have small trim pots so you
can adjust the output voltage and it's wise to set it to exactly what
you want. Don't assume anything...
Also, beware that these sort of supplies often have remote sensing
terminals, so a single supply will have four output wires, two to
provide current to the load and two to sense and regulate the load
voltage at the end of the supply cables. If you don't run four wires
to the console, you need to strap the force and sense wires for the
output and ground to get the supply to work right. Otherwise, without
feedback, the force terminals will get set to excessively high
voltages and you'll fry every IC in the console in a few hundred
milliseconds.
One final comment: assuming your console uses only single and dual op
amps, you could switch to the OPA604 and OPA2604 op amps, which can
withstand +-24V supples. For those chips, I'd try around +-22-23V to
get a little safety margin. The dissipation will be quite high (about
.3 watts per 604, .6W per 2604), and you might end up with a heat
problem that requires some ventilation in the case and possibly
heatsinks on the chips, but you'll get the highest possible headroom
you can get with an IC console. The 604/2604 sound very good too,
basically similar to the 132 after they warm up (give them a few
minutes before you listen).
In general, extra headroom will be a useful thing, but I don't know
that you'll be able to hear it except that your clip margin is higher.
I do know that if your stock supply is near its limits, you might do
better to replace it with something more competent, so supply voltage
change or not, a new supply might be a good thing sonically.
>The other thing is those stupid VU meter lights, they are expensive and
>blink off and on. I heard of some one using yellow neon bulb and soldering
>them in place. Anyone done this? What bulbs? I'll probably try and figure
>this out on my own this week but if anyone has any tips, send them my way.
Neon is a bad idea since it requires high voltage AC to work well, and
that'll invite mains noise to the party. Perhaps some DeOxit on the
sockets / connectors would be simpler??
Best of luck,
Monte McGuire
mcg...@world.std.com
mcp
LED. Ohm's Law will not be denied. Resistance = (Bulb Voltage - 2
volts)/Current through LED. Most LEDs are 10 to 20 ma. Check the spec
sheet.
Brian Birge
about this mod. Just a simple application of V=IR. If you put your LEDs in
parallel you'll get twice the current draw than in series so just do the math
and pick the resistor to limit the total current to safe levels. The way my
Trident is powered with the LEDs I chose, I don't need the current limiting
resistor under normal operating condition. However if one of the LEDs shorts
then I'm in trouble, that's why I said I put the resistor in for short
protection. I'm not sure I understand your 'bulb volt - 2 volt', are you just
assuming 4V across the LED network and desire to drop 2 across the resistor?
Please explain the logic behind your choice as its buggin' me that I'm too
stupid to figure it out on my own! - Brian
"mcp" <m...@pobox.com> wrote in message news:3884D9...@pobox.com...
mcp
single LED, the value of the series resistor is determined by the
formula,
Resistor = [6 volts - 2.1 Volts (voltage drop across LED)] / 20 ma = 195
ohms.
An LED is a current device. That is, its intensity is varied by varying
the current through it, not the voltage across it. (A light bulb's
intensity varies by changing the voltage across it, but the voltage
across the LED is virtually fixed. It's a characteristic of the physics
of the device.) So, with 6 volts applied to the series resistor and LED,
2.1 volts (approximately) is going to be dropped across the LED. The
resistor is selected to "program" the current through the LED.
Remember, current in a series circuit is constant. When you subtract the
fixed forward voltage drop across the LED (2.1V) from the available
voltage (6V), that leaves 3.9V for the resistor. So 3.9V / 20ma = 195.
If you put two LEDs in parallel, you will half the current through each
one. So if you put two LEDs in parallel, use a 195 ohm resistor, and
apply 6 volts, each LED will have 10 ma through it. For double the
intensity, parallel two LEDs and reduce the resistor to half value, or
in this example, approximately 100 ohms. When the LEDs are in parallel,
there is still only 2.1V drop across them. So,
Resistor = [6 volts - 2.1 Volts (voltage drop across bot LEDs)] / 40 ma
= 97.5 ohms, which will divide evenly between the two LEDs such that 20
ma flows through each one.
We're in the same town, so call me if you want!
Mike
Brian Birge
not voltage. Just goes to show my degree isn't worth the paper its printed on. I
feel stupid and now will chant the holy mantra "Mcdonalds fries are better than
BK's"... - Brian
mcp
Actually, it's possible that the bulbs in the console are fed with a
constant current source, but I doubt it. This technique is sometimes
used on heavily loaded power supplies to keep the bulbs from flickering
when other devices on the bus switch on and off.
mute
PSUs look at acopian.com . I think theyll make a dual output
(+18,-18V)
at 12 amps, or whatever you want. Im using 2 18v, 6.5a supplies ,and a
5v
2.5a for led,and mutes.Just bolt into a rack, add fuses ,and barrier
strip
to the old wiring harness.You may have to do a mod on the pc of both
supplies, as they arent set to start up large capacitive loads (a
recording console) and it will just go bzzzzzt. Im sticking with
BBopa604
on the aux master,the master, and all of the buss/monitor modules. Then
opa134s on the input modules. It does sound completely different, Im
bummed I didnt do this sooner. That fader comment sounded interesting
though, ???
Regards, Andrew Buscher
Twist Turner wrote:
>
> Yeh, I did try new TL071's on one channel I liked the motorola's better.
> They don't have the same character but are a little cleaner and more
> detailed sounding. I like that on the eq but not on the line in's/mic
> pre's. The Burr Brown was the clear winner for me on the inputs/mic pre.
>
> I have the ALP's faders and have had no problem with them. What do you
> recommend for an upgrade for those? I know good faders don't come cheap,
> I'm assuming my money might be better spent working on the power supply.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------
> carpedonut wrote in message <38825340...@earthlink.net>...
> >
i...@icautli.com
Anyone has done this mod????
Best for all
geoff
glance looks like the dog's bollocks.
geoff
Phil Allison
---------------------------
> >
> > Anyone has done this mod????
> >
> >
>
>
>
Negligible difference in audio in practice.
> Dunno the LME49710NA, but a quick
> glance looks like the dog's bollocks.
>
Much ado about SFA.
.... Phil
Scott Dorsey
it measures well and is very stable. It gets an undeservedly bad rap with
audiophiles but it is a good choice.
The TL071s were originally used throughout in order to keep power demands
down and reduce the cost of the power supply. It was a fair choice at the
time but a little more output current is a good thing.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
geoff
>>>
>>
>>
>> Or a common-or-garden 5534/5534 . Dunno the LME49710NA, but a quick
>> glance looks like the dog's bollocks.
>
> I'd do the 5532/5534 myself. It is a remarkably good-sounding part and
> it measures well and is very stable. It gets an undeservedly bad rap with
> audiophiles but it is a good choice.
geoff
Scott Dorsey
the output if you are doing that. Still, it'll perform great into a
low-Z summing network... the busses on the Tridents were made comparatively
high-Z to keep power demands down, at some noise expense.
studio...@gmail.com
studio...@gmail.com
Scott Dorsey
>On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 7:58:03 AM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> In article <6padncwehJ8DcRfE...@giganews.com>,
>> geoff <ge...@nospamgeoffwood.org> wrote:
>> >On 9/08/2017 9:49 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Or a common-or-garden 5534/5534 . Dunno the LME49710NA, but a quick
>> >>> glance looks like the dog's bollocks.
>> >>
>> >> I'd do the 5532/5534 myself. It is a remarkably good-sounding part and
>> >> it measures well and is very stable. It gets an undeservedly bad rap with
>> >> audiophiles but it is a good choice.
>> >
>> >Specifically designed to adequately drive a 600R load IIRC.
>>
>> Yes, although just barely. It can benefit from a couple transistors on
>> the output if you are doing that. Still, it'll perform great into a
>> low-Z summing network... the busses on the Tridents were made comparatively
>> high-Z to keep power demands down, at some noise expense.
>
opamp (but inside the feedback loop) to get more current drive capability than
is possible with just a monolithic chip.
Burr-Brown has a whole applications note on doing this, in
http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snoa600b/snoa600b.pdf and so does the competition
at http://www.linear.com/docs/4114 as well.
If you look at a lot of consoles from that era, many of them use booster
circuits like this both on the outputs (to drive 600 ohm loads easily) and
on the buss amplifiers (in order to reduce the summing buss impedance so
lower resistance summing resistors could be used, for lower noise). But
doing this is not cheap and Trident was very much built to a price point.
Geoff
geoff
voley...@gmail.com
> have heard that would make a large improvement in sound also.
>
> blink off and on. I heard of some one using yellow neon bulb and soldering
> them in place. Anyone done this? What bulbs? I'll probably try and figure
> this out on my own this week but if anyone has any tips, send them my way.
>
>
> Twist Turner