Bob Dylan: No Direction Home
Jim Gilliland
in two parts, tonight and tomorrow night. It's definitely worth seeing.
It covers Dylan from the time he left his home in Minnesota through
roughly his 1966 motorcycle accident, showing him in context of the
culture in which he grew up, and the musical, cultural, and political
world in which he made his mark. It's based largely on interviews and
performances by Dylan and his contemporaries. Very nicely done.
Mike Rivers
Jim Gilliland wrote:
> Just a reminder that the new Martin Scorsese film on Bob Dylan is on PBS
> in two parts, tonight and tomorrow night. It's definitely worth seeing.
Sounds like you may have already seen it. How long is the program,
actually? We have two PBS stations around here tht are running it, but
one of them (the one with the best signal - I don't have cable) is
running tonight's part in 90 minutes, while the snowy station is
running two hours. Both are running two hours tomorrow night. Is there
an extra half hour of fund raising in the two-hour version, or do you
suppose the more local station is cutting something? That would be a
shame.
Dan Ash
Thursday night. Perhaps your PBS affiliate is choosing their own
'intermission' point? This film is really first rate - I doubt they've
edited it per se...
Looking forward to seeing the whole program this week.
Dan Ash
White Plains, NY
Jim Gilliland
I have seen it - I bought the DVD last week. To the best of my
knowledge, each part is about two hours in length. But I didn't
carefully time the two parts. It would seem odd that they would try to
edit this - there's really very little that they could cut without
really damaging the content. And as far as I know, the broadcast is
coming over the satellite live at 9 each night, so it isn't clear that
they could do much other than just drop a big chunk of it.
You might check with them to see if it's just a mistake on their
schedule. They may be planning to run the full show even if it isn't
indicated correctly on the website or printed guide.
According to their website, WETA has it on from 9 to 10:30. But they
also note that its length is "Length : 01:56:46 min". So I suspect that
it's just a mistake.
http://www.weta.org/tv/archive?series=136&episode=1809
By the way, they seem to be planning to carry it several more times -
especially if you can pull in their digital signal:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/current_season/upcoming.html?station=WETA
Mike Rivers
Jim Gilliland wrote:
> According to their website, WETA has it on from 9 to 10:30. But they
> also note that its length is "Length : 01:56:46 min". So I suspect that
> it's just a mistake.
Same time in the weekly Washington Post TV guide and today's newspaper
and the Zap2it TV listing web site (followed at 10:30 by Nos Amours -
Saga of the Montreal Expos). Curious that the lengthly review in
today's Post didn't mention the time difference. I'll be out this
evening but I've set my VCR to record WETA between 9 and 11. Better to
watch 3/4 of the show with a good signal than all of it with a bad
signal. It's Sharon Rockifeller's station, so she can do whatever she
wants.
I'm sure it'll come around again when it's fund raising time, if it
isn't that time now.
> By the way, they seem to be planning to carry it several more times -
> especially if you can pull in their digital signal:
Sorry, my rooftop antenna doesn't get digital, and even if it did, my
vintage TV set wouldn't know what to do with it anyway. <g>
Mike Rivers
Mike Rivers wrote:
> Same time in the weekly Washington Post TV guide and today's newspaper
> and the Zap2it TV listing web site (followed at 10:30 by Nos Amours -
> Saga of the Montreal Expos).
I guess the Internet (and the newspaper, and the monthly WETA program
guide) isn't always correct. I phoned the station and they assured me
that it's running for two hours, that 10:30 was a mistake.
The old fashioned ways are sometimes best, even though the times they
are a'changin'.
Don Pearce
Well, that published running time is exactly what we are getting here in
the UK tonight (no ad breaks - so it is right). Starts in half an hour.
d
studiorat
I'm watching it at the moment, on BBC.
And laughing at the people giving out about him selling out with his
electrified backing group.
Jim Gilliland
>
> Sorry, my rooftop antenna doesn't get digital, and even if it did, my
> vintage TV set wouldn't know what to do with it anyway. <g>
I'm sure your antenna would handle digital just fine. Digital TV uses
the same set of frequencies as analog, and generally requires less power.
But you're right about your TV.
My Last Sigh
this film was actually created by Bob Dylan's personal production company,
and Martin Scorcese (sic) wasn't approached to put his name on it for years
afterwards....Dylan apparently has the upper hand in managing his own past
and rise to fame.....
"Jim Gilliland" <usemyl...@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:8KSdnV26JsT...@adelphia.com...
Don Pearce
I've just stopped watching. They've managed to put something together that
just isn't that interesting.
d
Dr. Dolittle
> I've just stopped watching. They've managed to put something together that
> just isn't that interesting.
Personally I never found Bob all that interesting. He had a couple of
catchy tunes, I guess. Never have bought one of his records. Different
strokes and all that.
Jona Vark
"Dr. Dolittle" <p...@spamblasters.not> wrote in message
news:suZZe.57754$32.2...@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Chris Hornbeck
<usemyl...@cheerful.com> wrote:
>Just a reminder that the new Martin Scorsese film on Bob Dylan is on PBS
>in two parts, tonight and tomorrow night. It's definitely worth seeing.
Scorsese is a God.
I'd forgotten how beautiful Baez and Dylan were.
(She still is, of course.)
Thanks for the heads-up!
Chris Hornbeck
John L Rice
particular fan of Dylan, I think the documentary was fascinating,
informative and well done.
--
John L Rice
Dru...@ImJohn.com
"Jona Vark" <noe...@all.com> wrote in message
news:0p0_e.256$sL3...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Kurt Albershardt
>
> I'd forgotten how beautiful Baez and Dylan were.
> (She still is, of course.)
And those pipes...
Hadn't thought about Woodie's guitar badge (This Machine Kills Fascists)
for some time. Hmmm....
Jim Gilliland
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:27:30 -0400, Jim Gilliland
> <usemyl...@cheerful.com> wrote:
>
>>Just a reminder that the new Martin Scorsese film on Bob Dylan is on PBS
>>in two parts, tonight and tomorrow night. It's definitely worth seeing.
>
> Scorsese is a God.
>
> I'd forgotten how beautiful Baez and Dylan were.
> (She still is, of course.)
Wasn't that something, seeing her looking at Dylan with such adoration?
I never really knew much about their relationship. In the interviews,
the most she ever called him was her "special friend", but you can learn
more just from seeing the light in her eyes. They were so young.
Nonetheless, he's not an easy person to sing with. <g> I love to hear
Baez singing Dylan songs, but I don't think much of their singing
together. (Apparently she loves singing them as well - there are
several Dylan songs on her new album.)
Jim Gilliland
> I just finished watching part 1, and even though I've never been a
> particular fan of Dylan, I think the documentary was fascinating,
> informative and well done.
Dylan's influence was pervasive enough that even those who paid no
attention to him have been affected by him, both musically and
culturally. The cultural aspect is obvious - his songs became an anthem
for a generation, lending a great deal of force to the civil rights and
antiwar movements of the 1960s. And musically, his influence is also
enormous - it's easy to see Dylan's influence on the Beatles, and on
many later artists from David Bowie through Eminem.
Mike Rivers
My Last Sigh wrote:
> AN interesting article in the Wall Street Journal last week mentioned that
> this film was actually created by Bob Dylan's personal production company,
> and Martin Scorcese (sic) wasn't approached to put his name on it for years
> afterwards....Dylan apparently has the upper hand in managing his own past
> and rise to fame.....
There was a Dylan film that someone shot and Dylan took over for
editing and production, but it was never released. This PBS documentary
apparently contains portions of that film.
georgeh
>And those pipes...
Last I saw, Arlo had adopted that badge.
I loved the footage of Dave Van Ronk, The Kweskin Band, Woodie, The Weavers,
etc. Many of these acts never made it to "the mainstream" so it's nice
to see them get their due here.
Scott Dorsey
>
>Personally I never found Bob all that interesting. He had a couple of
>catchy tunes, I guess. Never have bought one of his records. Different
>strokes and all that.
The problem is that, although Bob is probably one of the greatest song
writers of our time, he's really a pretty awful performer. Listen to
the covers of his songs instead of the originals and you'll see just
how great he really is.
--scott
And I don't care, I _still_ like Brewer and Shipley's version of _All
Along the Watchtower_ better than the one from that Ronsonol guy.
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Your Ad Here!
> The problem is that, although Bob is probably one of the greatest song
> writers of our time, he's really a pretty awful performer.
I disagree. I find his singing to be extremely interesting everytime I
hear him. I consider his extemporaneous vocal approach pure jazz.
Having said that, I realize that a lot of people don't get it or don't
care for it.
Harry Lavo
"Your Ad Here!" <blu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1127829957....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
After watching the show, I pulled out my Bob Dylan album and listened to it
again..especially his version of House of the Rising Sun (a song i've always
loved). Know what...I too had never really heard the lyrics until I
listened to his version. If you have the record or CD, give it a try.
Brian Middleton
I'm with you 100%. In fact I have yet to hear a Dylan cover that I
prefer to the original.
It was interesting, in light of the ragging Dylan's singing often gets,
to check out that duet he did with Joan Baez at Newport in the
film--his pitch is mostly right on, while Baez' is all over the place.
He was an unconventional singer, but not an incompetent one.
Dr. Dolittle
> It was interesting, in light of the ragging Dylan's singing often gets,
> to check out that duet he did with Joan Baez at Newport in the
> film--his pitch is mostly right on, while Baez' is all over the place.
I never really heard live Baez until I bought the Woodstock movie. Damn,
that is some awful stuff. I prefer fingernails on a chalkboard to
listening to her.
studiorat
tracks etc.
It was great to see Liam Clancy, he rocks. I saw him reading at a
folkie's reunion last year, and he knocked the place dead. You could
have heard a pin drop.... Same man owns a fine recording studio. And
knows how it works :o)
I'm loving "as good as I've been to you at the moment", particularly
for his version of "Arthur McBride"..
studiorat
? We have two PBS stations around here tht are running it, but
> one of them (the one with the best signal - I don't have cable) is
> running tonight's part in 90 minutes, while the snowy station is
> running two hours. Both are running two hours tomorrow night. Is there
> an extra half hour of fund raising in the two-hour version, or do you
> suppose the more local station is cutting something? That would be a
> shame.
PBS is hilarious...
I'd love to see Bob Dylan appealing for pledges...
"Please donate now so we can keep bringing you quality programming for
the discerning viewer, just like you..."
Chris Hornbeck
<usemyl...@cheerful.com> wrote:
>> I'd forgotten how beautiful Baez and Dylan were.
>> (She still is, of course.)
>
>Wasn't that something, seeing her looking at Dylan with such adoration?
> I never really knew much about their relationship. In the interviews,
>the most she ever called him was her "special friend", but you can learn
>more just from seeing the light in her eyes. They were so young.
Just saw the second half. My immediate comments, typed
while Scorsese is on Charlie Rose real-time, is that
the dictionary definition of "artist" should simply
reference this movie. Nothing less can be useful;
nothing more has yet been made, AFAIK.
>Nonetheless, he's not an easy person to sing with. <g> I love to hear
>Baez singing Dylan songs, but I don't think much of their singing
>together. (Apparently she loves singing them as well - there are
>several Dylan songs on her new album.)
It worked for me, but I'm not really a professional in
the sense that you are. I kinda just like what I like.
Thanks, as always,
Chris Hornbeck
"I had a perspective on the booing, too. You
can kill somebody with kindness." _Bob Dylan
RD Jones
I guess I never really 'got' Dylan in spite of
the fact that some of my favorite artists covered
his songs (Hendrix, Johnny Winter). I'm in the
camp that likes the songs but could do without
his performing.
I watched the first part (and taped the second)
to see what the fuss was about.
The show certainly gives a better understanding of
where he came from and how he progressed to his
popular status. I figure it's partly due to his being
in the right place at the right time: Greenwich
Village in the '60s.
I have a songwriter pal who at times will break
into his Dylan imitation and is fully capable of
clearing a room when he does.
rd
Bob Cain
Shows to go ya that pipes and pitch aren't always
simultaneously embodied. I was given a really good ear for
it and have always been amazed that Dylan could sound so
rough yet have such excellent pitch control. He's so good
at it that he can have you constantly feeling that he's on
the edge of slipping off while never really doing so.
Somebody else that can do that is Ramblin' Jack and he
tutored Dylan in the early days (if'n you believe him.) He
does slip off more than Bob does, though.
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."
A. Einstein
Jona Vark
Having lived through the 60s .. there were a lot more than Dylan. He was
just a small part of it all. And if Hendrix , The Beatles had NOT recroded
his songs... well.. who knows.
I never thought of him as much more than an tired boring whiner. Regardless
of his 'contributions' to the successes mistakes made in the 60s.
yorkio
(in article <tWx_e.851$Y_5...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>):
> Having lived through the 60s .. there were a lot more than Dylan. He was
> just a small part of it all. And if Hendrix , The Beatles had NOT recroded
> his songs... well.. who knows.
>
What songs are you thinking of? I'm trying really hard, but struggling to
think of any Dylan songs that were recorded by The Beatles. And obviously
Hendrix made a pretty good job of All Along The Watchtower, but apart from
that, I'm coming up blank as well unless you're counting the odd live cover
long after Dylan was a star in his own right...
--
yorkio
Your Ad Here!
> Village in the '60s.
I found it a bit depressing and it left me perplexed after watching
this. It's hard to imagine such a vibrant music scene anywhere these
days. I thought about this a bit and realized that such times for the
arts are rare. Afterall, we're living in the wake of the tremendous
gains and cultural/political accomplishments of that brief period of
time and there's no need for an identical "cultural revolution" today.
There's a lot of nostalgia for those days from those who romanticize
the early sixties floating around, and while it would be cool if such a
performance art and music scene could exist today, it obviously cannot.
Events like these evolve organically. The music business also seemed
much better off when the publishing houses ruled the record business
and a great song made it on numerous records simultaneously. That can't
happen again either, no doubt. The new "voice" of the artist should be
expressing current realities however disjointed things are today.
Jim Gilliland
> "Jim Gilliland" <usemyl...@cheerful.com> wrote in message
> news:43392b9a$0$1599$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>>John L Rice wrote:
>>
>>>I just finished watching part 1, and even though I've never been a
>>>particular fan of Dylan, I think the documentary was fascinating,
>>>informative and well done.
>>
>>Dylan's influence was pervasive enough that even those who paid no
>>attention to him have been affected by him, both musically and
>>culturally. The cultural aspect is obvious - his songs became an anthem
>>for a generation, lending a great deal of force to the civil rights and
>>antiwar movements of the 1960s. And musically, his influence is also
>>enormous - it's easy to see Dylan's influence on the Beatles, and on
>>many later artists from David Bowie through Eminem.
>
> Having lived through the 60s .. there were a lot more than Dylan. He was
> just a small part of it all. And if Hendrix , The Beatles had NOT recroded
> his songs... well.. who knows.
Yes, there were others. In the folk music world, names like Ochs and
Paxton come to mind. In rock, the Beatles and Hendrix were certainly as
influential as Dylan was. Yet all four of those artists were strongly
influenced by Dylan himself.
BTW, the Beatles didn't record any Dylan songs (though he and Harrison
later collaborated on "If Not For You", and much later on the Travelin'
Wilburys). Dylan's influence on the Beatles wasn't through giving them
songs. He just nudged their music into a new direction, partly by
introducing them to marijuana, but more so just by sheer musical example.
Hendrix did record at least one Dylan song, but as Scott pointed out
yesterday, the Brewer and Shipley version of "Watchtower" was far
superior to the Hendrix version.
Still, when you look at the music of the 60s and early 70s, it's pretty
easy to see how critical his role was. Would we ever have had a Simon
and Garfunkel or a Crosby Stills and Nash if the Byrds hadn't recorded
Mr. Tambourine Man? How would the Grateful Dead or the Jefferson
Airplane have unfolded if the Dylan influence hadn't been there? And
even artists who came along much later - John Hiatt or Rodney Crowell,
for example - show an enormous Dylan influence.
(When Rodney was here last month, he performed "Like A Rolling Stone",
introducing it as "probably the greatest rock and roll song ever
written". When I interviewed him a couple of years ago, he told me that
he'd listened to Bringing It All Back Home perhaps 50 times when it
first came out.)
> I never thought of him as much more than an tired boring whiner.
That's fine, we can all have different opinions.
> Regardless
> of his 'contributions' to the successes mistakes made in the 60s.
I can't parse that sentence. Sorry.
hank alrich
> I have a songwriter pal who at times will break
> into his Dylan imitation and is fully capable of
> clearing a room when he does.
And there's the rub: when Dylan does it a different thing happens. <g>
--
ha
hank alrich
From Mr. Draper over in RMMGA:
> His Bobness.....
> Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
> There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief...
> You walk into the room, With your pencil in your hand....
> How many roads must a man walk down, Before you call him a man?
> Corrina, Corrina, Gal, where you been so long?
> Dear landlord, Please don't put a price on my soul....
> In the time of my confession, in the hour of my deepest need...
> I got this graveyard woman, you know she keeps my kid...
> You may be an ambassador to England or France....
> Well, if you're travelin' in the north country fair.....
> Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son"....
> I dreamed I saw St. Augustine, alive as you or me....
> Someone's got it in for me, they're planting stories in the press....
> When you're lost in the rain in Juarez and it's Eastertime too.....
> John Wesley Harding was a friend to the poor.....
> Mama, take this badge off of me.....
> Once upon a time you dressed so fine....
> Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me....
> I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more....
> Can't you hear that rooster crowin'?
> Down the street the dogs are barkin' and the day is a-gettin' dark.....
> You got a lotta nerve.....
> When your mother sends back all your invitations....
> Oh all the money that in my whole life I did spend......
> With your mercury mouth in the missionary times.....
> Oh, the ragman draws circles up and down the block.....
> Ramblin' outa the wild West, leavin' the towns I love the best.....
> Well, Frankie Lee and Judas Priest, they were the best of friends....
> Tweeter and the Monkey Man were hard up for cash....
> Well, my shoes, they come from Singapore....
> Ain't it just like the night to play tricks when you're tryin' to be so
> quiet?
> Oh my name it is nothin' my age it means less....
> I've seen love go by my door It's never been this close before....
Mr Draper rests his case.
--
ha
Chip Wood
to force her clean pure tones to his nasal ones and kept
missing because he was so all over the place.
--
Chip Wood
"Brian Middleton" <br...@night-kitchen.com> wrote in message
Ma...@uwaterloo.ca
> Dr. Dolittle wrote:
> > Brian Middleton wrote:
> >
> >> It was interesting, in light of the ragging Dylan's singing often gets,
> >> to check out that duet he did with Joan Baez at Newport in the
> >> film--his pitch is mostly right on, while Baez' is all over the place.
> >
> >
> >
> > I never really heard live Baez until I bought the Woodstock movie. Damn,
> > that is some awful stuff. I prefer fingernails on a chalkboard to
> > listening to her.
>
> Shows to go ya that pipes and pitch aren't always
> simultaneously embodied. I was given a really good ear for
> it and have always been amazed that Dylan could sound so
> rough yet have such excellent pitch control. He's so good
> at it that he can have you constantly feeling that he's on
> the edge of slipping off while never really doing so.
>
I'm not a big follower of the 60's stuff, but I do listen to (and record) a
lot of local rock/folk music in my area. I think what defines the true
artists is both their creativity and their perseverance. Like any genius,
they make it look so easy, and other people could probably perform just as
well, but how did they find their unique voice in the first place? Whether it
becomes popular or successful is another thing. I bet Dylan and many others
would have just kept performing anyway.
> Bob
> --
>
> "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
> simpler."
>
> A. Einstein
Hey, your sig is appropriate here!
Richard
Jona Vark
>
> BTW, the Beatles didn't record any Dylan songs (though he and Harrison
> later collaborated on "If Not For You", and much later on the Travelin'
> Wilburys). Dylan's influence on the Beatles wasn't through giving them
> songs. He just nudged their music into a new direction, partly by
> introducing them to marijuana, but more so just by sheer musical example.
Yes.. you're right.. My bad.
Tim Sprout
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > The problem is that, although Bob is probably one of the greatest song
> > writers of our time, he's really a pretty awful performer.
Your Ad Here! wrote:
> I disagree. I find his singing to be extremely interesting everytime I
> hear him. I consider his extemporaneous vocal approach pure jazz.
> Having said that, I realize that a lot of people don't get it or don't
> care for it.
>
I love Bob Dylan for his phrasing and interpretation, the way I
love Nina Simone and Frank Sinatra for theirs.
TS
transmogrifa
The song "You've got to hide your love away" was an unmistakable Dylan
immitation by the beatles. The birds, the turtles, and peter paul and
mary recorded the bejesus out of dylan tunes.
Mike
Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
> there's no need for an identical "cultural revolution" today.
Wow. Just shows how big a divergence of views is possible.
>There's a lot of nostalgia for those days from those who romanticize
>the early sixties floating around,
It's a strange phenomenon. The 1960's were very hard times
culturally. Not as mean-spirited as today, but much tougher
going.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Chris Hornbeck
"I had a perspective on the booing, too. You
can kill somebody with kindness." -Bob Dylan
Dr. Dolittle
> I found it a bit depressing and it left me perplexed after watching
> this. It's hard to imagine such a vibrant music scene anywhere these
> days. I thought about this a bit and realized that such times for the
> arts are rare.
They didn't have computers back then. People had more time on their hands.
Nil
news:0001HW.BF606D38...@proxy.news.easynews.com:
> What songs are you thinking of? I'm trying really hard, but
> struggling to think of any Dylan songs that were recorded by The
> Beatles.
The answer is None. The poster is mistaken.
> And obviously Hendrix made a pretty good job of All Along
> The Watchtower, but apart from that, I'm coming up blank as well
> unless you're counting the odd live cover long after Dylan was a
> star in his own right...
Hendrix also covered "Like a Rolling Stone", "Please Crawl Out Your
Window" and "Drifter's Escape". Maybe a couple of others. He was
obviously a fan.
RD Jones
Nil wrote:
> On 28 Sep 2005, yorkio <we...@l.mailsiphon.com> wrote in
> > And obviously Hendrix made a pretty good job of All Along
> > The Watchtower, but apart from that, I'm coming up blank as well
> > unless you're counting the odd live cover long after Dylan was a
> > star in his own right...
>
> Hendrix also covered "Like a Rolling Stone", "Please Crawl Out Your
> Window" and "Drifter's Escape". Maybe a couple of others. He was
> obviously a fan.
Hendrix was quite fascinated with Dylan.
He was torn between staying in the Village
("where it's all at") and going to London
with Chandler. Since he was already becoming
known in NY, he let Chas talk him into going
to London and the rest is history.
'Like a Rolling Stone' was a high point at the
Monterey show when Hendrix first returned to
the states. (burning guitar notwithstanding)
"Yes, I know I missed a verse, don't worry about it"
After viewing the second part of the PBS show
I will concede that I now have a higher
appreciation of Dylan and a better understanding
of what drove him.
rd
Nil
news:1127972680.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> 'Like a Rolling Stone' was a high point at the
> Monterey show when Hendrix first returned to
> the states. (burning guitar notwithstanding)
> "Yes, I know I missed a verse, don't worry about it"
I love that version, such a great vibe to it!
"And that's Bob Dylan's grandmother over there..."
(a joke about Noel Redding's or Mitch Mitchell's permed hair-doos, I
always assumed.)
Brian Middleton
everything "wrong" technically, and the baseball announcers were
constantly warning the kids at home not to imitate his style. But when
*he* did it, it was utter brilliance.
georgeh
Yeah, and I remember HNIC's Howie Meeker showing films of how Bobby Orr
skated practically on his ankles, and did his stops and turns wrong ...
but it turned out he was actually pushing off faster when he re-started
than those who did it "properly" at that time.
play on
vocals, because his vocal style was hugely influential, probably as
widespreand as his songwriting. Tom Petty, Roger McGuinn, Jimi
Hendrix, the punk movement, on and on...
I loved the documentary myself.
play on
Your Ad Here! wrote:
> > the right place at the right time: Greenwich
> > Village in the '60s.
>
> I found it a bit depressing and it left me perplexed after watching
> this. It's hard to imagine such a vibrant music scene anywhere these
> days. I thought about this a bit and realized that such times for the
> arts are rare.
It wasn't just that it was a time for the arts. It was a time of
social unrest, intitially driven by the civil rights struggle, and then
by the war in Vietnam. You can't separate what was happening in the
arts from these things.
Ain't nobody writin' no topical folk songs these days... no "Ballad of
Pat Tilman" or the story of "The Great Hurricane".
L David Matheny
> Dr. Dolittle <p...@spamblasters.not> wrote:
> >
> >Personally I never found Bob all that interesting. He had a couple of
> >catchy tunes, I guess. Never have bought one of his records. Different
> >strokes and all that.
>
> The problem is that, although Bob is probably one of the greatest song
> the covers of his songs instead of the originals and you'll see just
> how great he really is.
> --scott
>
Dylan's singing voice was pretty awful in many respects. What I learned
from No Direction Home is that it was mostly an intentional affectation.
I generally prefer to listen to his renditions though, because I have such
great respect for his incredible genius as a songwriter.
Some of the renditions captured during the British concert shown in
No Direction Home seem to be especially bad. He looked and sounded
like he was as high as a kite.
L David Matheny
> "Brian Middleton" <br...@night-kitchen.com> wrote in message
>
> > It was interesting, in light of the ragging Dylan's singing
> > often gets, to check out that duet he did with Joan Baez
> > at Newport in the film--his pitch is mostly right on, while
> > Baez' is all over the place.
>
> to force her clean pure tones to his nasal ones and kept
> missing because he was so all over the place.
>
piercing voice, but her intonation usually drifts about badly.
Bob's intonation is usually good when he tries to have any
intonation instead of affecting an outrageous hillbilly twang.
All in all, I prefer his singing to hers.
Paul Stamler
news:1128058936....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ain't nobody writin' no topical folk songs these days... no "Ballad of
> Pat Tilman" or the story of "The Great Hurricane".
Au contraire -- there are a *lot* of people writing topical songs out there.
I do a folk show; my program focuses more on the traditional stuff than the
singer-songwriters, but hanging out on the folk DJs' listserv, I get to see
what they're playing, and there's tons of topical stuff. Old-timers like
John McCutcheon and Si Kahn, youngsters like Janet Bates and the Grace
sisters, and everyone in between. Some is good, some is terrible, but
there's no shortage, nohow.
Peace,
Paul
Jim Gilliland
>
> Ain't nobody writin' no topical folk songs these days... no "Ballad of
> Pat Tilman" or the story of "The Great Hurricane".
On that point, I'd have to differ strongly. Tom Paxton is still writing
VERY powerful songs in the same vein as he did in the 1960s. So are a
great many others, John McCutcheon is a good example.
But if you asked me today to point out a songwriter who showed the most
obvious Dylan influence, I'd name Eliza Gilkyson. She wrote the liner
notes to the Bob Dylan tribute album ("A Nod To Bob") that came out on
Red House a few years ago (for his 60th birthday). Some of her songs
sound to me like they came directly from his pen.
Here's a song from Eliza that was the most played song on Folk radio
across the country over this past summer. Dylan's influence is quite
obvious here:
http://redhouserecords.com/ManOfGod.mp3
The cowboy came from out of the west
With his snakeskin boots and his bulletproof vest
Gang of goons and his big war chest
Fortunate son he was doubly blessed
Corporate cronies and the chiefs of staff
Bowing to the image of the golden calf
Startin' up wars in the name of God's son
Gonna blow us all the way to kingdom come
Man of God, man of God
That ain't the teachings of a man of God
Man of God, man of God
That ain't the preachings of a man of God
Coalition of the fearful and the judgmental
Patricians, politicians and the fundamentalists
You never have to tell them how the money's spent
You never have to tell them where their freedom went
Homophobes in the high command
Waitin' for the rapture like it's Disneyland
Hide all the bodies out of view
Channel all the treasure to the chosen few.
Man of God, man of God
That ain't the teachings of a man of God
Man of God, man of God
That ain't the preachings of a man of God
If I could I surely would
Stand on the rock where Moses stood
Look out people now we're gonna get fleeced
By a wolf masquerading as a man of peace
Jesus said blessed are the meek
Jesus said you gotta turn the other cheek
Jesus said help the poor and the weak
If he lived today he'd be a liberal freak
All the money changers would be out on the street
Weepin' and wailin' and gnashin' their teeth
Me I'm waitin' on the reckoning day
When the whole world gonna rise up and say
Man of God, man of God
That ain't the teachings of a man of God
Man of God, man of God
That ain't the preachings of a man of God
Harry Lavo
"Paul Stamler" <pstaml...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:Tc5%e.93730$qY1....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
We have some good, independent radio hear in the Pioneer Valley of Western
Massachusetts (a rarity, I know). And the radio still is a force for
mobilizing social action. We get to hear some of that topical music. I
don't think it's not being written; it's just that in most of the land it
can't be heard.
That said, Dylan was (as the program points out) not your traditional,
topical song writer (there were plenty of them back then as well). Instead,
he seemed able to get behind the topical and transform it into something
universal....which is why it had such an impact upon so many people. I was
a young MBA starting my career at a major corporation at the time...I didn't
change jobs but I did march on Washington and help lead an active peace
movement where I lived. I recall his songs as somehow speaking to me...they
hit like a ton of bricks.
Side story...the first March on Washington took place during a strike at the
Washington Post (which was the only newspaper in town at the time). Yet
all these trench-coated, hatted FBI agents circulated through the crowd
explaining that they were reporters for the Post doing a story and asking
for our names, who we worked for, what our bosses names were..... Totally
clueless. Governmental incompetence didn't start with GWB (although his
administration has seemed to perfect it.)
Dr. Dolittle
> I have to laugh when I see people saying they don't care for Bob's
> vocals, because his vocal style was hugely influential, probably as
> widespreand as his songwriting.
What? Everybody should love his vocal style because he was influential?
Tommy B
singing like "Bob", and doing a backround part, as he was not the "Artist".
So the "Artist" & I started singing along, and I did my "Bob" sound. There
was confusion in the booth.
It was pretty funny!
We stopped. I confessed.
We laughed, and continued.
So I guess, at least for a few bars,
I did a pretty good imitation.
Tom
"play on" <lord...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128058617....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tom Aurand
All the interesting words from the left been spoke.
Jay Kadis
wrote:
And although it seems a bit absurd
Nary a word has yet been heard.
-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
play on
impication you also don't care for Mark Knopfler, Tom Petty and the
legions of other pop singers who copied him? You may not like Dylan's
vocals inparticular, but his vocal sound is all over popular music.
play on
attention. The marketing to young people is so sophisticated nowadays
that I guess these voices don't have much of a chance to compete with
the likes of 50 cent, etc.
Jim Gilliland
If you're expecting to have it "marketed" toward you, you'll never hear
it. But if you know where to look for it, it is quite prevalent.
Tim Martin
"L David Matheny" <ldmn...@netassoc.net> wrote in message
news:su-dnRnyYJF...@netassoc.net...
Some of the renditions captured during the British concert shown in
> No Direction Home seem to be especially bad.
I got the impression that for some performances there was an acoustic part
which went fine.
So I'm wondering if the problem was with the quality of the PA sytem and
monitoring. In some of those 1960s UK venues, it may be that the venue and
PA were acoustically awful for electric bands.
Tim
Tim Martin
> Ain't nobody writin' no topical folk songs these days... no "Ballad of
> Pat Tilman" or the story of "The Great Hurricane".
Aaaargh! You've now put into my head "This is the story of a hurricane" ...
and I know it won't go away until I'velocated a copy and played it.
Damn the eyes ... :-)
Tim
Tim Martin
"Dr. Dolittle" <p...@spamblaster.not> wrote in message
news:CQa%e.56119$mb4....@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
I think influence requires resonating with the audience. As times changes,
audiences change, and what worked commercially for Dylan in the 60s wouldn't
work commercially today.
I guess the thing about 60s Dylan, from what I recall, was the songs were
observational, yet essentially middle-class. They were aimed at people with
money who could afford to buy them. yet said something those people could
resonate with. I think some have endured as well as or better than, say,
rock anthems like "My Generation".
Today, apart from the sex symbols promoted by the record industry, who might
as well be cardboard cutouts as far as the music is concerned - they
contribute nothing - we have rap, which apparently has something to say (I
don't know, I don't listen to it) but is aimed at youth.
Tim.
Ron Capik
> Jim Gilliland wrote:
> > play on wrote:
> >
> < ..snip.. >
> >
> > But if you asked me today to point out a songwriter who showed the most
> > obvious Dylan influence, I'd name Eliza Gilkyson. She wrote the liner
> > notes to the Bob Dylan tribute album ("A Nod To Bob") that came out on
> > Red House a few years ago (for his 60th birthday). Some of her songs
> > sound to me like they came directly from his pen.
> >
> > Here's a song from Eliza that was the most played song on Folk radio
> < .....snip.. >
> Maybe that's the reason that there ain't no folk
> All the interesting words from the left been spoke.
Also seems much more IN YOUR FACE than what Dylan did.
I'm not a big fan of IN YOUR FACE political anything these days.
As PPM once sang: " ...and if you really say it, the radio won't play it... "
Later...
Ron Capik [ AKA: the NJ Editorial Minstrel ]
--
Dr. Dolittle
By implication? Bzzz, still wrong answer. I like Tom Petty and Mark
Knopfler, a lot. I don't care for Dylan in the least.
> You may not like Dylan's
> vocals inparticular, but his vocal sound is all over popular music.
And Elvis, and Paul and John, and Frank and ...
Jim Gilliland
>
> Also seems much more IN YOUR FACE than what Dylan did.
That's certainly true. I was a bit afraid that someone might take the
two points of my post and try to combine them. Which means that I
probably didn't make myself clear.
I posted Eliza's song as evidence that there are still good "protest" or
topical songs being written. While the song clearly shows some Dylan
influence (especially in the arrangement), I wouldn't consider it to be
anything close to what Dylan himself might have written. It's much too
unsubtle. (Of course, Dylan, too, could be quite unsubtle at times -
look at "Masters of War", for example.)
Yet I also stated that some of Eliza's songs sound to me like they could
have come right from Dylan's pen. I could point out several examples,
but "Man of God" wouldn't be among them. For that, you might check out
"Aphrodite's Face" from her Land of Milk and Honey album.
Unfortunately, I can't find an MP3 of that one.
play on
Ron Capik
<Don't know what to snip so I left it all>
Yes, I did read your two points as one general statement.
IMHO, "Masters of War" seems much more philosophical than
"Man of God."
As for good "protest" or topical songs, I tend to think the good
ones are the ones that get heard rather than the ones that you
need to hunt for. I have written a few topical songs like: "Photo
Radar Watching Us" or " God Couldn't Ride the School Bus"; not
all that good in that you probably couldn't ever hunt them down.
Then too, the times they are a changing.
Anyway, I should probably check out Eliza's works.
Later...
Ron Capik
--
Dr. Dolittle
> Whatever... you've made my point, thanks.
>
Delusional besides.
Good luck with that. :)
Jim Gilliland
> Yes, I did read your two points as one general statement.
> IMHO, "Masters of War" seems much more philosophical than
> "Man of God."
Agreed.
> As for good "protest" or topical songs, I tend to think the good
> ones are the ones that get heard rather than the ones that you
> need to hunt for.
I suppose that's always somewhat relative. There aren't many protest or
topical songs that get heard at all these days on pop radio, yet in the
1960s many songs of that nature got a lot of pop airplay (with "Blowin'
In The Wind" being a prime example). These days you have to hunt to
find ANY sort of folk music.
As I pointed out in an earlier post, though, Eliza's "Man of God" was in
heavy "rotation" on folk radio in general over this entire summer. For
the months of July and August, it was the most often played song (based
on statistics at folkradio.org). The September numbers haven't been
announced yet, but it seems a safe bet that it will remain near the top
of the list.
The folk radio statistics are based on a selection of playlists posted
to the Folk-DJ mailing list by about 135 radio hosts. However, the term
"folk" is pretty broad, and these programs tend to cover a lot of
ground. So even the most heavily played song isn't likely to become
ubiquitous. But for the folk music world today, it's about as big a
"hit" as you can get.
Interestingly, with "Man of God" in the #1 spot for August, the #2 and
#3 songs were both Dylan songs. #2 was Nickel Creek's version of
"Tomorrow Is A Long Time", #3 was the Kennedy's version of "Chimes Of
Freedom". And there were two more Dylan songs in the top ten, Rodney
Crowell's version of "Shelter From The Storm" and Happy Traum's version
of "Tonight I'll Be Staying Here With You".
And incidentally, Eliza had five more songs from her newest album all
near the top of the list. Based on that, I'd tend to agree with your
assessment below:
> Anyway, I should probably check out Eliza's works.
Her last four albums have all been very, very good.
Jim Ballard
that and just go on with my life. They're the ones you have to explain
the punchlines of jokes to.
jb
Jim Ballard
play on wrote:
Well, that's the dumbing down you hear so much about. People are spoon
fed all the corporate crap and are too lazy and clueless to dig any
deeper. Not to mention the point someone made earlier about Dylan being
inseperable from the time. But the times, they changed. Hmm.
jb
Jim Ballard
Ron Capik wrote:
jbAlso seems much more IN YOUR FACE than what Dylan did. I'm not a big fan of IN YOUR FACE political anything these days. As PPM once sang: " ...and if you really say it, the radio won't play it... " Later... Ron Capik [ AKA: the NJ Editorial Minstrel ] -- Try listening to Masters of War. No, Dylan didn't always say things literally. As he said once to Phil Ochs, I'm not a reporter, I'm a songwriter. But if you were listening, what he was saying was often quite clear.
Dr. Dolittle
of his music is just annoying to me. Sure he has things to say, and
people heard them. Did it really change anything? I wonder.
The only thing I ever remember from his songs is this image of the
hooker bending down with her boobs in his face. ;)
Mike Rivers
pleasantly reminded of how good of a showman the early "bare bones"
Dylan was.
Harvey Gerst
And it was great seeing Dave Van Ronk and a lot of the crowd from that
era. I wish there was some footage of Terri Thal, Dave's first wife
(and Bob's first manager). God, I thought she was gorgeous back then.
Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
Mike Rivers
Harvey Gerst wrote:
> And it was great seeing Dave Van Ronk and a lot of the crowd from that
> era. I wish there was some footage of Terri Thal, Dave's first wife
I remember her. That was from whe we all were younger and better
looking. But I think that Van Ronk got better looking as he got older.
Bob Olhsson
> ... God, I thought she was gorgeous back then.
Other than a few cases, I've frequently found myself wondering "what was
I thinking back then."
Dan Drasin, a friend of mine, contributed some of the footage and got to
go to a preview. Dan wrote some of us that he was flabbergasted by the
music scene that we've allowed to slowly slip away over the past 40 years.
--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
RD Jones
Harvey Gerst wrote:
> And it was great seeing Dave Van Ronk and a lot of the crowd from that
> era. I wish there was some footage of Terri Thal, Dave's first wife
> (and Bob's first manager). God, I thought she was gorgeous back then.
Terri Thal & Dave Van Ronk:
Harvey Gerst
Yeah, I saw that picture, but it doesn't do her justice. She had legs
that went on forever.
david correia
"play on" <lord...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> My point was that if you say you don't like Bob's vocal style, by
> impication you also don't care for Mark Knopfler, Tom Petty and the
> legions of other pop singers who copied him?
First time I heard Petty I thought it was Roger McGuinn.
David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com
lowg...@ao1.com
I met Terri many years ago. Tall and thin. This looks more like Karen
Dalton.
Jim Gilliland
>
> As I pointed out in an earlier post, though, Eliza's "Man of God" was in
> heavy "rotation" on folk radio in general over this entire summer. For
> the months of July and August, it was the most often played song (based
> on statistics at folkradio.org). The September numbers haven't been
> announced yet, but it seems a safe bet that it will remain near the top
> of the list.
And just to follow up on that remark, the September airplay report was
published this morning. Eliza is again at the top of the list, but with
a very different song (from the same Paradise Hotel album). Her song
"Requiem" was written for the victims of last year's tsunami, but has
been widely played as a tribute to the victims of Katrina. So it's no
surprise to see that it was this month's most played song.
play on
>observational, yet essentially middle-class. They were aimed at people with
>money who could afford to buy them.
This seems like a strange remark to me. Any commerifcal release is
aimed at people with the money to buy it. A 45 rpm copy of "Like A
Rolling Stone" was no less affordable than a copy of a James Brown or
Smokey Robinson record. You didn't have to be middle class to be able
afford to buy a single or two now and then.
play on
did a great job of getting his songs cut. You don't see many current
artists becoming songwriters first, popular performers second.