ORTF w/Fig. 8s?
hank alrich
Royers?
--
hank - secret mountain
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Scott Dorsey
hank alrich <walk...@thegrid.net> wrote:
>Does ORTF work with Figure 8 pattern mics? Like a pair of the mono
>Royers?
No, that becomes "near coincident figure-8s" or "modified Blumlein"
and it's kind of interesting. The angle of acceptance is really narrow
(like a Blumlein) so you can't get stuff more than 45' off-axis or
it falls off. And the rear lobes pick up a lot of ambience if you
pull it back. But it can be a handy thing if you need to use the nulls
to deal with a slap echo problem, or if you are in a deep and narrow room.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Richard Kuschel
>From: walk...@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
>Date: Sun, 23 January 2000 02:41 AM EST
>Message-id: <1e4u1q3.1a2...@alm-ts1-h1-27-44.ispmodems.net>
>
>Does ORTF work with Figure 8 pattern mics? Like a pair of the mono
>Royers?
>
>hank - secret mountain
>Note: the rec.audio.pro FAQ is at http://recordist.com/rap-faq/current
>Read it and reap!
>
>
I wouldn't do that, the off axis souns will be really weird.
A Falkner(sp?) array will work well though.
This is a pair of figure 8's facing forward. I think at about the same spacing
as an ORTF array. I'll have to look it up.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
David Satz
>
> This is a pair of figure 8's facing forward. I think at about the same
spacing
> as an ORTF array. I'll have to look it up.
Has anyone here actually tried Tony Faulkner's approach
(which I understand he only played with for a little while,
and then abandoned, years ago)? I can't bring myself to
risk an experimental recording with this method--the idea
of spacing two figure-8s so close to each other and still
aiming them completely forwards (and backwards) just
doesn't make sense to my way of thinking. But legend
has it that this method has amazing "focus" for the given
miking distance being used.
So I repeat: has anyone here actually tried it?
Dirk Offringa
A coincident couple of bi-directional microphones, with perpendicular axis,
the source being in the symmetrical field of the patterns, has been used and
was called "Stereosonic".
Mr Roland Condamines, who was Chief Engineer of the Laboratory of Acoustics
at the ORTF, says that the A-B couple can be used with other directivities
than cardioid, but states that experiments that they made ruled out these
possibilities, the cardioids providing a more precise soundstage (amongst
other arguments related to phase problems). He nevertheless mentions the use
of omnidirectional microphones in an A-B situation. This gives a more
"melted" soundstage, which he says musicians and conductors seem to like,
because it's the kind of "fusion" they are looking for. In that case, the
microphone spacing is less important than with a classic ORTF couple, but
should nevertheless not exceed. 1 meter. No mention is made of fig8
microphones in an ORTF couple.
I do not have personal experience with this, it happens that I was reading
Mr Condamines book "Stereophonics, a lecture on sonic relief, theory and
applications" " when I read your post.
Bye
Dirk
hank alrich <walk...@thegrid.net> a écrit dans le message :
1e4u1q3.1a2...@alm-ts1-h1-27-44.ispmodems.net...
mi...@gis.net
wrote:
>Does ORTF work with Figure 8 pattern mics? Like a pair of the mono
>Royers?
With the ribbon mics, or with small capsule mics it will work, at
colse to 90 deg. watch for too much ambiance from the back lobes.
An added bonus is that unlike tha pure coincident Blumline, you can
enjoy headphone listening without the "In the head" problem.
Over Loudspeakers the sound has more air and less of the "Multi-mono"
character of the pure coincident.
micha
Bob Olhsson
wrote:
>So I repeat: has anyone here actually tried it?
Yes, about ten years ago although all I had were my U-67s which don't
have the best figure 8 pattern. It was very focused but I found it a
bit hard to predict how much reverberation I was going to wind up with
using headphones to monitor. I hope to play with it again using a
DA-78HR.
--
Bob Olhsson Audio| Science is about the creation and manipulation
Box 555, | of models for the purpose of learning about and
Novato CA 94948 | understanding reality. It's very important to not
415.457.2620 | confuse one's model with reality its self!
Joav
walk...@thegrid.net (hank alrich) wrote:
> Does ORTF work with Figure 8 pattern mics? Like a pair of the mono
> Royers?
Hank,
The ORTF stereo technique was meant to replica the way we, humans, are
hearing - hence the 110! angle and 17cm spacing between the capsules. The
spacing of the microphones emulates the distance between the human ears,
and the angle between the two directional microphones emulates the shadow
effect of the human head.
ORTF with Fig8 mics just won't deliver since the cues will be all messed up
with out-of-phase information coming from the back of the mics. Moreover,
at list one side of the null points of each of the 2 mics will be facing
toward the sound source right in front of the pair!!!
I am sure this mutation will create an interesting effect but not an ORTF.
--
Joav
Desert Island
Fax +972 3 5614044
Tel +972 3 5626006
Email dese...@netvision.net.il
Mihartkopf
walk...@thegrid.net (hank alrich) schreibt:
>Does ORTF work with Figure 8 pattern mics?
Yes. This setup has a name: Faulkner-Bluenstein (not to mix up with Blumlein,
which is a coincident mic technique). Be sure that the capsules open an angle
of 90 degrees, even if they a re spaced apart. You'll get good mono
compatibility in the range of 45 degrees left to 45 degrees right and between
135 to 225 degrees. Recording from the side gives you negative correlation
which means bad mono compatibility.
Use it with a narrow-angled sound source.
Regards
Michael Hartkopf
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
data of many many many microphones at
http://members.aol.com/mihartkopf/
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