Schoeps cmts 501 stereo mic?
Bryan
I was wondering what uses you found it good for?
Drum overheads? drum room mic? acoustic guitars?
Any help would be great.
b.
M. Im
Very interesting mic. I found it good for overhead or center mic for
orchestra, spot micing solo instruments, as well as what you mentioned
below (guitar spot miking and drum room/overhead). It is essentially
coincident MK6 capsules on an older CMT amplifier. Not large di.
capsules like AKG 422/426 or the Neumann SM69's. The CMT amplifier has
a low current draw (good for remote recording). A friend of mine at
South Carolina Public Radio uses this mic and a Nagra IV-S for all the
remote classical recordings (He said he still doesn't trust DAT) :)
I like all the Schoeps mics (thus my email name!)
Dr. Im
bk...@swbell.net (Bryan) wrote in message news:<35ae798b.0302...@posting.google.com>...
Skip Beach
I work for SCETV & Radio and record most of the classical stuff that
comes out of there - most notably the yearly Spoleto Chamber Music
Series on Public Radio International. While indeed the Schoeps cmts
501 is used for ALL the recordings, we have been using Tascam DATs &
HHB CD recorders for the last five years or more on this project. I
haven't seen a working Nagra around here in quite a while but maybe
somebody here is hiding one in his desk. Previously, Studer 1/4"
machines were regularly used. With the cmts 501, we've been using a
Blumlein approach with the capsules at 90 degrees & using the figure-8
pattern. On this microphone, the front side of the figure-8 pattern is
much more consistent at all frequencies compared to the cardioid one.
This setup images really well & seems to make the old hall, Dock
Street Theater, sound pretty tasty. Of course the music sounds pretty
good too - very clean & precise. I really like this older microphone &
would be hard-pressed to find a suitable replacement. I'm currently
editing last spring's material for broadcast April - July 2003 on PRI.
Skip Beach, SCETV & Radio
sch...@earthlink.net (M. Im) wrote in message news:<e2a7a064.03020...@posting.google.com>...
Bryan
Thanks for the info. I have one on the way to me. Does anybody know
what kind of spl handling this mic has? Will it survive being a
overhead mic on loud rock drums? Finding info on the internet for this
mic is limited.
Thanks
b.
M. Im
Hi Skip,
This was some years ago of course, 16 years in fact.. I'm sure you are
using DAT's, digital etc, now. The fellow was Bill Sexton.. he may not
even be with you guys anymore. He is the fellow I am quoting.
M
Skip Beach
Yes Bill Sexton is still with SCETV/Radio but changed jobs about 6 or
7 years back. He's not involved with production work at all anymore.
He's now in the Engineering Maintenance Dept. - fixing & installing
mostly video equipment & some audio equipment. We work in the same
building & I run into him about twice a week & he's doing well &
enjoying himself. He was very gracious & enormously helpful when I
first began recording SC Ed. Radio's stuff.
As for SPL handling of this mic, if used as a high (6'-7'from floor)
drum overhead you should encounter no overload problems. You'd better
have input pads on your mic pre's. I've used this mic as a drum kit
overhead on drummer Bernard Purdie without a bit of breakup & that guy
plays pretty doggone loud!
Skip
David Satz
> Does anybody know what kind of spl handling this mic has?
Depends on the directional pattern that you dial up. For cardioid it's
125 dB SPL and for figure-8 it's 124 dB SPL, both specified at < 0.5% THD
when the microphone is operating into a 1 kOhm load. In the omni setting
of the capsules, the limit is 126 dB SPL, same measurement conditions.
> Will it survive being a overhead mic on loud rock drums?
Even if you overload this type of microphone severely (i.e. "bottoming out"
the capsule) you will not damage it. Its membranes are evaporated gold on
Mylar--not the older, ultra-fragile, ultra-thin pure metal type.
> Finding info on the internet for this mic is limited.
What else would you like to know? I have the old spec sheets here--I used
to own a CMTS 301D, and still have my original pair of CMT 56, which was
the mono analog of the CMTS 501.
The CMTS 501 has transformer-equipped output stages and runs on 48-Volt DC
phantom powering; the current required per channel is only about 0.7 mA.
The sensitivity is about 10 mV/Pa (it varies a little with your choice of
pattern settings) and the equivalent noise level is about 26 dB unweighted
(again varying a little with pattern) or about 19 dBA.
The CMTS 501 used the circuit technology of the CMT microphone series,
which was superseded in about 1974 by the Colette (CMC) series.
However, because the Colette series didn't include an intensity stereo
microphone and because the 48 Volt Colette series amplifier (the CMC 6--)
drew much higher current (up to 4.5 - 5 mA with active accessories), the
CMTS 501 was kept in manufacture for a number of years after Schoeps had
stopped making the other CMT models. I think I remember seeing it on the
price lists through at least the mid-1980s.
At any rate there should be no problem in obtaining repairs or support for
this model. Any needed parts will be readily on hand at the factory.
There were two versions of the CMTS 501 which differed only in their output
connector type--the CMTS 501 U which had a 5-pin XLR and the CMTS 501 D
which had a large 5-pin Tuchel connector. The CMTS 301 is a 12-Volt stereo
microphone with transformerless output circuitry; it used a DC/DC converter
to raise the capsule polarization voltage to 60 Volts, so it had different
performance specifications and a slightly different type of capsule. The
301 had ~4 dB higher maximum SPL, but the 501 is ~2 dB quieter.
There are also subtle differences in sound between CMTS microphones made in
different years, because Schoeps was at work on improving the high-frequency
range of their three-pattern capsules especially during the mid-1970s. The
two capsules in any given stereo microphone will be very closely matched to
one another, but capsule heads from different years have different response
between 4 and 16 kHz by a few dB, depending on when they were made.
--best regards
Bryan
How much is this mic worth today?
b.
David Satz
> How much is this mic worth today?
It's hard to answer that, primarily because this isn't an item that's very
often put up for sale. One was listed on eBay last week for an initial bid
price of $1750 but received no bids. It was then relisted at $1500 and was
sold almost as soon as it was listed. I only recall seeing two others sold
on eBay in the past several years--there's not a lot of Schoeps on eBay
most of the time.
The "vintage" market has lots of ups and downs, and anyway it's often hard
to imagine why some things bring the prices that they do and not some other
price. Plus I'm not sure how representative eBay auctions are of used pro
audio sales in general. I'm sure that if "Vintage King" were listing the
same microphone they'd ask twice as much for it--but they'd probably have
it in their listings for years before they sold it, too.
How's that for a non-answer?
M. Im
new price was quite high... around $4K+
David Satz
> The new price was quite high... around $4K+
That's a lot higher than I remember. Studer had some "new old stock" with
their own brand on it, which they listed for $980 as late as 1976.
Posthorn Recordings was the U.S. distributor for the Schoeps brand as such,
but the proprietor (my friend and then-mentor Jerry Bruck) preferred the
transformerless CMTS 301 version which he listed at $1375. It had a
slightly higher price in Germany than the CMTS 501, so the 501 might have
cost $1325 or so from him on special order.
If I recall correctly, the U.S. dollar lost a significant amount of value
overseas during the late 1970s. And in Posthorn's 1980, 1982 and 1984
price lists, the CMTS 301 was $2125 and the 501 was $2065. I really don't
recall seeing it get any higher than that before it disappeared from the
listing altogether.
Bryan
Thanks for the info David. I was hoping you would write something on
here. I posted something a while back about the M222 microphones and
you gave me a wealth of information. Would schoeps or any other
company have a shockmount for this microphone?
Thanks
b.
Bryan
Do you suppose that the people who own this mic like them enough to
keep them. Or did schoeps simply not manufacture that many of them?
And is that why we hardly hear about them? "vintage king" wooo I had a
bad expeirence with them once.
b.
M. Im
was around $3995 before it was discontinued. Keep in mind that this
was in the same ballpark as the Neumann USM-69 and the AKG-426 at that
time. The Neumann USM 69 is currently available at Musician's Gear in
Stuttgart for @ $3600. Second hand market is around $2500. They have
the AKG426 for @ $2600.
Anyone use the Schoeps KFM6 Sphere Stereo Microphone?
DS...@msn.com (David Satz) wrote in message news:<e6a68193.03020...@posting.google.com>...
David Satz
> My Schoeps catalogs are from the early 1990's and I believe the mic
> was around $3995 before it was discontinued.
I didn't believe this at first, but have since managed to dig up a 1990
Posthorn price sheet in which the CMTS 501 U is listed at $3425. So I'm
sorry that I doubted you. It just seems so extreme, since I'd bought a
new pair of the equivalent single-channel microphones in 1974 for half of
that, and back then I hesitated for about six months because it was the
most I'd ever heard of paying for a pair of microphones.
> Keep in mind that this was in the same ballpark as the Neumann USM-69
> and the AKG-426 at that time.
Well, the USM 69 actually wasn't introduced until 1979; by then the CMTS
microphones were on their way out. But for those who enjoy comparison
shopping via time machine, the 1990 U.S. list price of the USM 69i was
$4000 including a 25' cable with integrated swivel mount and an adapter
cable with 2 XLR-3M outputs. (Nowadays the same set lists for $5975.)
I don't remember an AKG C 426 from back then, but I do remember a C 422
stereo mike and also a C 34 model with small-diaphragm capsules.
> Anyone use the Schoeps KFM 6 Sphere Stereo Microphone?
The late Gabe Wiener bought a Schoeps sphere and seemed to like it a lot.
Jerry Bruck has also used one for many of his recordings in recent years,
and of course he gets to use whatever Schoeps equipment he wants. Jerry
was closely involved in the development of the sphere microphones, and was
a big influence on Gabe as well.
The few recordings I've heard with the sphere microphone have the full
low frequency response of pressure (pure omni) microphones plus a very
precise and stable stereo image. But I've heard them only on Jerry's
playback system and never on my own, nor have I gotten to try different
setups to experience the effects of distance and height on the pickup.
Mike Clayton
DS...@msn.com (David Satz) wrote:
> M. Im wrote:
>
> > Anyone use the Schoeps KFM 6 Sphere Stereo Microphone?
>
> The late Gabe Wiener bought a Schoeps sphere and seemed to like it a lot.
> Jerry Bruck has also used one for many of his recordings in recent years,
> and of course he gets to use whatever Schoeps equipment he wants. Jerry
> was closely involved in the development of the sphere microphones, and was
> a big influence on Gabe as well.
>
> The few recordings I've heard with the sphere microphone have the full
> low frequency response of pressure (pure omni) microphones plus a very
> precise and stable stereo image. But I've heard them only on Jerry's
> playback system and never on my own, nor have I gotten to try different
> setups to experience the effects of distance and height on the pickup.
I remember reading an article in either the late lamented Studio Sound
(best speaker reviews on the planet) or Mix about a recording made from
one of those high quality player pianos of a famous composer
(Rachmaninoff, I think) with a modified Schoeps Sphere. If anyone could
point me to directly to that article I'd be very aprecciative.
--
Mike Clayton