Best old console to soup up. Recommedations.
Peter B.
I've been enjoying the conversations on rec.audio.pro both current
and in the archives for some time now. Thanks for the interesting
posts.
I am looking for a recording console that sounds great (who isn't)
and is cheap (again... who isn't). I've come to the conclusion (not
nessesarily what all minds think) that I'm going to have to do some
DIY if I'm going to make this happen. My question for you is what
consoles out there from the 70's to current date would be the best
starting point for my project.
I have no problem with cleaning/ replacing pots, recapping,
rechipping, etc...
I'd like something that is around 24/8/2 and doesn't skimp on the
aux sends.
Initial Cost: between $0 (you never know what someone is giving away)
and $2,500.
What would interest me is a console that has a good layout and
circuit configuration but poor parts selection (or decent for it's
time but poor by today's standards). Or maybe something that had great
input modules, eq and input transformers but a poor summing amp that
ruined the whole thing. Consoles with signal flow bottlenecks that
once opened up would make it fun to use are also on my list. I'm sure
you get the idea of what I'm going after here (I hope).
I'm not a pro by any means but I do enjoy electronic projects,
excellent sound and recording myself and friends. I have mics, cables
and tape machines that are of excellent quality for my application but
the heart of my system, the console is a piece of junk. Not quite as
bad as some of my other piece of junk consoles (I'm a pack rat) but
it's not up to par with the other gear I have.
Thanks for any input you can offer,
Peter
Paul McGlashan
then on eBay for between 1-2K depending on condition and channel count. Last
one I saw was this little beauty
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=882609852&r=0&t=0&showTut
orial=0&ed=0&indexURL=0&rd=1 . I've been looking at doing a similar project
myself but am slowly leaning toward something with some sort of automation -
at least some sort of snapshot ability.
Best,
Paul
"Peter B." <thecat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f03c0e77.02072...@posting.google.com...
I'm Not
There's the sony MXP3036 console that you can put API, Avalon and Hardy
preamps into. Go to Blevins Audio Exchange OR Oddysey... they have lots
to choose from.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Bill Thompson
Peter B. wrote:
> I am looking for a recording console that sounds great (who isn't)
> and is cheap (again... who isn't). I've come to the conclusion (not
> nessesarily what all minds think) that I'm going to have to do some
> DIY if I'm going to make this happen. My question for you is what
> consoles out there from the 70's to current date would be the best
> starting point for my project.
I am in the process myself, and let me warn you about a couple of things:
1) This project is going to cost you many times more than you estimate,
not matter what you estimate!
2) This project is going to take way longer than you estimate, no matter
how long you estimate!!
3) This project is going to be orders of magnitude more fun than you
could possibly imagine, if you like this sort of thing.
There are two other rules to think about (and Jim Williams at Audio
Upgrades pointed these out to me just a little too late),
(A) it is easier to makes something sound good than it is to add
features. So if there are features you really want (like the aux sends
you mention further down) you may want to make that a requirement.
(B) If there are unusual features that you would like, it may then be
easier to start with a plain-er console.
For example, let's look at aux sends. I find that I work almost
exclusively in two modes (huge surprise):
- tracking, where I might need a couple of effects sends to help the
artist envision the final product, and LOTS of cue sends
- and mixing, where I need no cue sends, but maybe lots of effects sends.
I've modified my channel strips so that each of the original sends (two
cue, two aux) is now a dual ganged pot, and there is an accompanying
switch that can pick up the source signal from just about anywhere in
the signal path. This even sets me up if I ever decide to enable the
"top" half of the channel strip for more inputs. End result - 8 sends
that can source pre-EQ, post-EQ/pre-fader, or post-fader from either the
tape return or the channel. Furhtermore, each strip has 16 buss
assignment switches, and I can use those to feed a home-brew cue mix
system so that the artist can construct their own cue mix.
> I have no problem with cleaning/ replacing pots, recapping,
> rechipping, etc...
This will be the least of your worries. Well, least of your worries, but
VERY time consuming. I've been quite fortunate in that my wife decided
that if she wanted to see me in the evening she'd have to enter the
cave, and since she was there, she might as well help out, and since she
wants no part of the the soldering iron, she might as well disassemble
the strips. And she is really good at it!
A much bigger concern, on many of the older consoles, is poor power
distribution, poor grounding, bad interconnection schemes, etc. Be
prepared to re-work many of these "features"!
The good news is that you can make an amazing improvement with small
changes. The noise floor on my console dropped measurable (don't have
the measurements here) when I "fixed" the power and grounding.
> I'd like something that is around 24/8/2 and doesn't skimp on the
> aux sends.
A decent configuration, but I expect you may find more busses as you go
back in time (and people used to use their consoles for more than
monitoring during tracking).
> Initial Cost: between $0 (you never know what someone is giving away)
> and $2,500.
> What would interest me is a console that has a good layout and
> circuit configuration but poor parts selection (or decent for it's
> time but poor by today's standards). Or maybe something that had great
> input modules, eq and input transformers but a poor summing amp that
> ruined the whole thing. Consoles with signal flow bottlenecks that
> once opened up would make it fun to use are also on my list. I'm sure
> you get the idea of what I'm going after here (I hope).
Yes indeed... but consider this... there are 24 mic preamps on your
24/8/2 board, 8 summing bus amplifiers, and only 1 two-mix summing
amplifier and only one monitor amplifier. While any of these stages can
be improved, multiply the cost of upgrading the mic preamp by 24, and it
will still be a lot more than the cost of replacing the stock two-mix
summing opamps with discrete opamps (for example.)
You are probbly not going to find a console with great mic preamps in
the price and feature range you specified, so forget about them and
focus on the rest of the board.
On my console the preamps are OK, but they aren't going to be mistaken
for Trident or Neve or API<G>! I kept 8 of them cause they are
interesting, and I reduced the gain on the rest of them so that they
would handle line level signale from -20dBv up to +4dBu with plenty of
headroom leftover. They sound quite good in this application.
> I'm not a pro by any means but I do enjoy electronic projects,
> excellent sound and recording myself and friends. I have mics, cables
> and tape machines that are of excellent quality for my application but
> the heart of my system, the console is a piece of junk. Not quite as
> bad as some of my other piece of junk consoles (I'm a pack rat) but
> it's not up to par with the other gear I have.
And you don't need to be a pro. Some of the substitutions will be
obvious, as will some of the modifications. Others may not be, but there
are lots of folks here who have a similar set of interests.
OK, you did ask for specific suggestions, so....
1) It has to be modular - anything else will be too much effort.
2) It should have an integrated patchbay, or at least have been designed
with one in mind.
3) In-line or split really doesn't matter, but you might find you can do
more tricks with the former.
4) If you end up choosing between a console with Shadow switches, and
one without, take the one without. These things did not age well, and
they are expensive to replace. They are the worst feature on mine!!!
5) Pretty much assume you'll be replacing the power supply. Fortunately,
it's cheap and easy.
6) Look at every circuit. Some manufacturers had some wierd ideas, which
have later been dismissed<G>!
Some brands to look for:
Loft made a wonderful modular console back in the 70s. It is incredibly
simple to modify, and, as a bonus, many were made with the TransAmp
(that may not be the exact name) modules which were an early attempt at
a solid state transformer. They sound cool, though I'd probably only
keep a few.
Trident made some wonderful consoles (the 80B and the A range come to
mind) and then there was the lower cost series 65. I really like the
series 65, and it too is easy to modify and improve.
I am splicing a pair of Tangent 3216s together. While not in the same
class as the Loft or the Trident, I am finding that it is well suited to
my purpose, which is as a platform for my own design ideas.
Don't chuckle too much, but I was always happy with the Wramsa 820,
which for the price was a very good value. It is not fully modular,
which is a strike against, but it is still pretty easy to work on.
The Tascam Model 15 might come to mind, but I'd probably not tackle that
one. You have to add a two-mix bus since it didn't come with one, and
that would be a lot of work.
The Tascam Model 600 on the other hand might be a nice platform to start
with, and might need a lot less work than some of the others.
Almost anything that says Soundcraft, and is more than 20 years old will
also be a great candidate. I like the 200, 600, 6000, and series III.
Wheatstone boards are very well made, and their designs too are pretty
sound, but they ones I've seen have been pretty short on features.
While I don't know if they meet your price range, the MCI 500 and 600
series are great consoles, they will sound good with almost no redesign,
but they'll probably require a lot of cleanup work!
Similarly, Neotek and D&R make really nice consoles that won't require
much work at all, but even a hanger queen may be above your price range.
So many consoles, so little time!!!
Bill
-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----
Jay Kahrs
>and is cheap (again... who isn't). I've come to the conclusion (not
>nessesarily what all minds think) that I'm going to have to do some
>DIY if I'm going to make this happen. My question for you is what
>consoles out there from the 70's to current date would be the best
>starting point for my project.
>
> I have no problem with cleaning/ replacing pots, recapping,
>rechipping, etc...
>
> I'd like something that is around 24/8/2 and doesn't skimp on the
>aux sends.
>
>Initial Cost: between $0 (you never know what someone is giving away)
>and $2,500.
Maybe a Soundcraft of some kind like a 400 or 600, possibly a Trident Trimix or
a trashed 65. I'd be surprised if you found a console from MCI, Trident, Neotek
etc. that needs work for $2500. Maybe if your patient and the seller is really
motivated.
---
-Jay Kahrs
Owner - Chief Engineer
Mad Moose Recording Inc.
East Rutherford, NJ
http://www.madmooserecording.com
Check it out --> http://www.gearslutz.com
A different kind of forum
ThePaulThomas
What part of the country are you located in?
Jeremy Stephens
brown...@aol.com (Jay Kahrs) wrote in message news:<20020723121407...@mb-ct.aol.com>...
Vic C
clea...@pclnet.net (Jeremy Stephens) wrote:
...how about an MCI 636 ( I think its loaded 36)...2500 would be
fine...and it is in a working room. Email me your ph #...the desk is in
NY.
Rob Adelman
Jeremy Stephens wrote:
> Where can I find out what mods can be done to the soundcraft 600?
>
Try Jim at Audio Upgrades. Old Sondcrafts are one of his specialties.
<http://www.audioupgrades.com/index.html>
Kim
> What part of the country are you located in?
THE country. As we all know, there is only one country.
You'd be from the U.S. then, yes?
thepau...@hotmail.com (ThePaulThomas) wrote in message news:<f290bcd4.02072...@posting.google.com>...
Byron G Jacquot
> rechipping, etc...
>
> I'd like something that is around 24/8/2 and doesn't skimp on the
> aux sends.
I'll second the recommendation for the Soundcraft 600, if you can deal
with the 6 aux sends, 4 at a time (3 & 4 switch to become 5 & 6). It
meets a lot of the rest of your specifications: price, upgradability &
maintainabilitiy. The manual contains complete schematics, which makes
a good springboard (and the manual is downloadable from the "classic"
section at Soundcraft.com).
The 6000 is a big brother to the 600, with 6 knobs on the auxes (does it
switch to 8 or 10 sends, maybe?), improved mic pres and panpots, and 16
or 24 busses. The 200's are the little brother, with 4 busses, but
internally fairly similar.
If you go for a 600 or 6000, look for the ones outfitted with the
internal TT patchbay, a very handy bonus. You'll also want an "extender
cable."
The raw performance isn't too poor, but gets better with even a little
work. Do the power & ground modifications first, as they help quite a
bit.
It'll probably be due for a recapping, and I'm sure you'll find some
knobs and buttons that need some attention. When mine heated up, some
caps made a sizzling noise, which went away when the caps changed.
Maybe switch from the expensive incandescent bulbs to white LEDs on the
VUs, so you never need to change 'em again.
As a base for modifications, it does fairly well...though when I bought
my 600, I had ambitious plans, which I abandoned as I found that the
console worked fairly well to begin with, and a lot of the modifications
were trickier than was worthwhile (someone ask Mike Rivers about the
polarity switches in his 600!). Very much rechipping would lead to a
bigger power supply.
There are some jumpers on some of the modules that would readily take
some small toggle switches. The channel strips let you change the
ordering of the EQ & insert point. The master module has jumpers for
the oscillator & talkback routing that one day I'll bring out to some
switches.
I'd also like to give the Audio Upgrades mic pre cards a try someday.
A couple caveats:
Flexible headphone configuration would be one feature it's sorely
lacking.
The pots have small d-shaped shafts. Somewhere between 1/4" and
1/8"...finding replacement knobs is tough, and if you have to replace a
pot, finding one that the old knob fits is nearly impossible. The same
with the internal patchbay jacks.
Byron Jacquot
Mike Rivers
In article <3D3E25...@surfree.com> thre...@surfree.com writes:
[Soundcraft 600]
> The raw performance isn't too poor, but gets better with even a little
> work. Do the power & ground modifications first, as they help quite a
> bit.
What are these modifications? Are they listed in the documentation you
mentioned was available on the web site? I have a 600 (original owner)
and have been thinking about just adding a heavy ground wire from each
card to a common ground point, but there card's ground plane is
isolated from DC ground by a capacitor. I was wondering if a direct
hard wire ground might screw up something else.
> a lot of the modifications
> were trickier than was worthwhile (someone ask Mike Rivers about the
> polarity switches in his 600!).
This is one. Dan Kennedy gave me some chip swap, capacitor removal,
and bypassing mods on the channel modules but I didn't have the
inclination to do this on all of the channels, which is probably
required to make a significant difference.
> Flexible headphone configuration would be one feature it's sorely
> lacking.
Whenever I plug headphones into the jack, the control room output
(which mutes, when phones are plugged in) starts humming. Not loud
enough to hear the hum through the headphones, but annoying.
> The pots have small d-shaped shafts. Somewhere between 1/4" and
> 1/8"...finding replacement knobs is tough, and if you have to replace a
> pot, finding one that the old knob fits is nearly impossible.
I'm sure that Sifam or one of the other plastic molding companies have
them, but it's best to pool resources or wait until you need more than
just one. I need a new master fader knob for mine. It's hanging on by
a thread. But then I probalby need a new master fader, too.
Oh, the joys of old consoles!
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mri...@d-and-d.com)
Eric Agner
experience talking...
But you might want to search for a thread on modifying a Tascam 3500.
I think Ted Spencer is the guy who did the mods.
I think blevinsaudio.com has a Ward Beck board for not too much, and
seem to recall other people saying these aren't too bad.
Remember, this is all hearsay. --Eric Agner
thecat...@aol.com (Peter B.) wrote in message news:<f03c0e77.02072...@posting.google.com>...
Peter B.
> There's the sony MXP3036 console that you can put API, Avalon and Hardy
> preamps into. Go to Blevins Audio Exchange OR Oddysey... they have lots
> to choose from.
Seems interesting but they don't seem to have any that cost around $1K
- $2.5K. Way out of my price range.
Ted Spencer
>I think Ted Spencer is the guy who did the mods.
I wish I could take the credit here, but all I did was audition and choose the
replacement opamps. Jim Williams (Audio Upgrades) did all the real work,
designing and installing the mods. Do a google newsgroup search for the full
story. I love the results, but it was more expensive (about $4000) than might
make sense for many people.
Ted Spencer, NYC
"No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
"Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown
Justin Ulysses Morse
wrote:
> > Flexible headphone configuration would be one feature it's sorely
> > lacking.
>
> Whenever I plug headphones into the jack, the control room output
> (which mutes, when phones are plugged in) starts humming. Not loud
> enough to hear the hum through the headphones, but annoying.
My Amek does this, and yes it is annoying. I haven't gotten around to
it, but I understand a terminating resistor on the input to your power
amp should take care of it.
ulysses
Ray
buss , upgraded line amps and neve flying faders!! and it sounds
great!!! of course no one uses the eq's or mic pre's but its a great
mix console.
ray
Peter B.
> story.
The Tascam 3500 story is a fun read. I found the threads a few months
ago and it helped inspire me to just go ahead and bring new life to an
old console.
Thanks Ted,
Peter
Peter B.
> a trashed 65. I'd be surprised if you found a console from MCI, Trident, Neotek
> etc. that needs work for $2500. Maybe if your patient and the seller is really
> motivated.
>
> ---
> -Jay Kahrs
> Owner - Chief Engineer
> Mad Moose Recording Inc.
> East Rutherford, NJ
> http://www.madmooserecording.com
>
> Check it out --> http://www.gearslutz.com
> A different kind of forum
A trashed 65 with vermin infestation might be the hot ticket to bring
the price down to my level. That would be a nice console to own. Right
now I'm looking at the Soundcraft 600 and doing some research on a
Yahmaha M-1516. I'm also going to look into Loft.
I guess I could go on with subjective terms to describe the sound I'd
like out of the console but I'd rather sum it all up with this: Rock
and Roll.
That's the sound I'm after. :)
One console company that has intrested me is Ward Beck. I hear mixed
reviews about it though. I did find it quite interesting to see what
Mark Planke did with his.
I picked up some Neve transformers (LO2567, 31267 from the 1080) with
the intent of doing some fun stuff. Any suggestions on usage in my
soup up the console application?
I'd like to thank everyone who is helping me out both with the posts
and in private e-mails. If I could I'd give everyone a round of donuts
and black coffee.
Justin Ulysses Morse
<thecat...@aol.com> wrote:
> I guess I could go on with subjective terms to describe the sound I'd
> like out of the console but I'd rather sum it all up with this: Rock
> and Roll.
> That's the sound I'm after. :)
Transformers.
> One console company that has intrested me is Ward Beck. I hear mixed
> reviews about it though. I did find it quite interesting to see what
> Mark Planke did with his.
Buying Canadian seems like a good idea if you want ruggest broadcast
quality and don't care about name recognition. Another brand to look
at in that case is McCurdy.
> I picked up some Neve transformers (LO2567, 31267 from the 1080) with
> the intent of doing some fun stuff. Any suggestions on usage in my
> soup up the console application?
Your best bet is to use them to build outboard mic preamps with them.
Then, load your console with line-input modules so you don't have to
use the console's mic preamps. In fact, don't even let the signal
touch your console until after it comes out of the tape deck. This
approach knocks about a dozen superfluous gain stages off the typical
signal path.
> I'd like to thank everyone who is helping me out both with the posts
> and in private e-mails. If I could I'd give everyone a round of donuts
> and black coffee.
Lemon bizmark and a Dr. Pepper for me, please.
ulysses
Mark Plancke
>In article <f03c0e77.02072...@posting.google.com>, Peter B.
><thecat...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess I could go on with subjective terms to describe the sound I'd
>> like out of the console but I'd rather sum it all up with this: Rock
>> and Roll.
>> That's the sound I'm after. :)
>
>Transformers.
>
>> One console company that has intrested me is Ward Beck. I hear mixed
>> reviews about it though. I did find it quite interesting to see what
>> Mark Planke did with his.
>
>Buying Canadian seems like a good idea if you want ruggest broadcast
>quality and don't care about name recognition. Another brand to look
>at in that case is McCurdy.
I would tend to go with the Ward Beck stuff over McCurdy. The WBS
stuff is a little larger scale and can be adapted for studio use.
As far as WBS in general there is lot's of it floating around, not all
of it is good so that may account for the mixed reviews. I think I've
got a great console after considerable modification, it's a great
platform to do this because you can work on it easily and it's not
crazy expensive.
Mark Plancke
SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
http://SoundTechRecording.com
I don't know the secret of success, but the secret
of failure is to try to please everybody. --Bill Cosby
chuck
>I'm getting other people to work on my console, so this ain't direct
>experience talking...
>
>But you might want to search for a thread on modifying a Tascam 3500.
>I think Ted Spencer is the guy who did the mods.
>
OK, since we've put tascam on the table, here goes--I can almost here
the laughter now :-)
I've just pulled my 1982 vintage Yamaha PM700 out of storage, and found
that the old warhorse, after 10 years on the road and 10 years of
disuse, still runs fine, and everything works.
Does anyone know of useful mods for this 12 into 2 artifact? For a start
I think inserts might be nice, but is it worth it? I suppose the specs
are pretty poor by today's standards, but at the time they had a
reputation for being practically unkillable--which turns out to be
true--and the pre's for having plenty of headroom and being very hard to
overdrive. They were also reputed to be much better than the subsequent
EM series, which by personal experience I'm inclined to agree with.
I'd like to put it back to work in my home studio project.
Opinions? Pointers? Wisecracks? :-)
Located Melbourne Australia.
Incidentally the P2250 amps I bought at the same time are also still
going strong. You could bet your life and your grandmother on yammie
gear back then...
Chuck
>
purple M
I went around with this same idea & decided to look for several
different console preamps in Pairs or Quads.
Some were purchased raw, needed minor repair, or were in good working
order.
Great education for doods that like to tweak this stuff.
In the end, you get a variety of great sounding, classic Pre's and/or
EQ's.
Soundcraft Ghost is what I use to monitor...
Variety is the spice of life?
One console, one sound? Could be great but...
Good luck
Jerry
Justin Ulysses Morse
<cm...@lendtech.com.au> wrote:
> Eric Agner wrote:
>
> >I'm getting other people to work on my console, so this ain't direct
> >experience talking...
> >
> >But you might want to search for a thread on modifying a Tascam 3500.
> >I think Ted Spencer is the guy who did the mods.
> >
> OK, since we've put tascam on the table, here goes--I can almost here
> the laughter now :-)
>
> I've just pulled my 1982 vintage Yamaha PM700 out of storage, and found
> that the old warhorse, after 10 years on the road and 10 years of
> disuse, still runs fine, and everything works.
If it's anything like the PM1000, then yes. Does it have huge,
spacious modules; giant transformers everywhere, and an all-discrete
class-A topology? Does it sound great but completely lack features?
Ask Fletcher (or just read Mercenary's site) and Joshua David about
their PM1000 experiences/experiments.
ulysses
Scott Dorsey
>
>I've just pulled my 1982 vintage Yamaha PM700 out of storage, and found
>that the old warhorse, after 10 years on the road and 10 years of
>disuse, still runs fine, and everything works.
>
>Does anyone know of useful mods for this 12 into 2 artifact? For a start
>I think inserts might be nice, but is it worth it? I suppose the specs
>are pretty poor by today's standards, but at the time they had a
>reputation for being practically unkillable--which turns out to be
>true--and the pre's for having plenty of headroom and being very hard to
>overdrive. They were also reputed to be much better than the subsequent
>EM series, which by personal experience I'm inclined to agree with.
>
>I'd like to put it back to work in my home studio project.
You know, I really like those things. They sound good and they are
hard to kill. You might look into doing op-amp upgrades, and I suspect
you may have some electrolytic caps gone bad after twenty years, but
basically they aren't that bad to begin with.
>Incidentally the P2250 amps I bought at the same time are also still
>going strong. You could bet your life and your grandmother on yammie
>gear back then...
You still can on some of it. The PM3000 is a fine piece of gear and
a direct descendant of your PM700. It has VCAs that don't sound like VCAs.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
ThePaulThomas
rechipping, etc... I'd like something that is around 24/8/2 and
doesn't skimp on the aux sends. Initial Cost: between $0 (you never
know what someone is giving away)and $2,500.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=896881393
Justin Ulysses Morse
ThePaulThomas <thepau...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=896881393
Wow, that looks like a PM1000 but with features! I bet it would be
great for digging into. Anybody know if it's got the good jujus
inside? Or is it all full of crummy 1970s op amps?
ulysses
Scott Dorsey
I think it has 301s in it. But then, the Studer consoles from that era
are full of 301s and surprisingly sound great. Plus, the 301 is very easy
to replace with something better.
Mike Rivers
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=896881393
> Wow, that looks like a PM1000 but with features!
The PM2000 (you could have said that instead of making me log on to
eBay) was the next generation after the PM1000, a very well respected
live sound console, many of which are still in service. The latest
catalog I have which lists it is 1984. By 1986, it had been replaced
by the PM3000.
I have a nagging memory that they may have gone with transformerless
inputs with the PM2000, but I wouldn't swear to it.
ThePaulThomas
> great for digging into. Anybody know if it's got the good jujus
> inside? Or is it all full of crummy 1970s op amps?
Justin,
I've been told that my Yamaha M1516 (M-1516) was a cheaper
alternative to the PM2000 and I CAN tell you that the M1516 does have
discrete opamps in its preamps, of the 990, 2520, M99 variety, which
does open up SOME possibility for modification. However the subsequent
parts of each channel's path does have some weird looking (straight,
in-line 9 pin) IC's after said opamp. If my board is the cheapo
version then I'm assuming ("making an ass out of U and Me" ;) the
PM2000 has similar discrete opamps, rather than a step down. One thing
I do not know is whether or not the PM2000 has truly sweepable EQ or
if, like mine, each band is switchable (5 choices on M1516) like the
mids on the PM1000 (3 frequncies). Every in and out (except inserts)
on the M1516 is transformer balanced but I think the transformers in
the PM2000 were probably better. I'm sure Scott Dorsey knows about
that. Scott, did the PM2000 use something better than the Microtran's
you told me about in another recent thread?
Scott Dorsey
>I do not know is whether or not the PM2000 has truly sweepable EQ or
>if, like mine, each band is switchable (5 choices on M1516) like the
>mids on the PM1000 (3 frequncies). Every in and out (except inserts)
>on the M1516 is transformer balanced but I think the transformers in
>the PM2000 were probably better. I'm sure Scott Dorsey knows about
>that. Scott, did the PM2000 use something better than the Microtran's
>you told me about in another recent thread?
I dunno, I never opened a PM2000. I have, in fact, never even seen one.
Worked on lots of PM1000s and PM3000s, though.
Those Tamura transformers aren't all that bad. They aren't Jensens but
they are a lot better than the stuff in some other consoles of that era.
And they still have more headroom than the electronics.
ChuxGarage
>Justin Ulysses Morse <uly...@rollmusic.com> wrote in message
>> Wow, that looks like a PM1000 but with features! I bet it would be
>> great for digging into. Anybody know if it's got the good jujus
>> inside? Or is it all full of crummy 1970s op amps?
>> ulysses
>
> Justin,
> I've been told that my Yamaha M1516 (M-1516) was a cheaper
>alternative to the PM2000 and I CAN tell you that the M1516 does have
>discrete opamps in its preamps, of the 990, 2520, M99 variety, which
>does open up SOME possibility for modification
Hmm... If anybody is up for the challenge, I have a really clean M-1532 that
could use a new home. It is a 32-channel mainframe with 24 input modules. It
was installed briefly in a fixed installation, but never really used a lot by
the original owner. It was specified by a high dollar "consultant" but simply
wasn't what the client needed. As the vendor on the whole job, I got to eat
the thing many years ago. I've been intending to use it, but for my current
purposes, a smaller and lighter mixer is much better. If you know someone who
would like a cosmetically really nice board like this, please email me. It
does not have a flight case.
Chuck Conrad
Justin Ulysses Morse
<klu...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=896881393
> >
> >Wow, that looks like a PM1000 but with features! I bet it would be
> >great for digging into. Anybody know if it's got the good jujus
> >inside? Or is it all full of crummy 1970s op amps?
>
> I think it has 301s in it. But then, the Studer consoles from that era
> are full of 301s and surprisingly sound great. Plus, the 301 is very easy
> to replace with something better.
Digging into a Studer consolde recently, I was amazed at the steps they
took to make the 301's sound good in certain critical functions
(summing in particular). Like using the compensation pins to bypass
certain stages inside the chip. I didn't understand it at all, but I
was impressed.
ulysses
Kurt Albershardt
> However the subsequent
> parts of each channel's path does have some weird looking (straight,
> in-line 9 pin) IC's after said opamp.
Are you sure those aren't resistor arrays?
Scott Dorsey
No, SIPs are very common on some cheaper consoles (Mackie uses them,
for example), because they save board space and don't cost much. When
you see them, your options are very limited because there aren't many
good chips available in that configuration.
Kurt Albershardt
>>>However the subsequent
>>>parts of each channel's path does have some weird looking (straight,
>>>in-line 9 pin) IC's after said opamp.
>>
>>Are you sure those aren't resistor arrays?
>>
>
> No, SIPs are very common on some cheaper consoles (Mackie uses them,
> for example), because they save board space and don't cost much. When
> you see them, your options are very limited because there aren't many
> good chips available in that configuration.
Did I mention it's been awhile since I worked on consoles? <g>
chuck
>Justin Ulysses Morse <uly...@rollmusic.com> wrote in message
>
>>Wow, that looks like a PM1000 but with features! I bet it would be
>>great for digging into. Anybody know if it's got the good jujus
>>inside? Or is it all full of crummy 1970s op amps?
>>ulysses
>>
>
>
For Australian readers who don't already know: Ian Rumbold at Sound
Developments is still doing this
sort of thing here in Melbourne. I'm going to look him up next week and
see what he can do with my
PM700. A suitable case for treatment maybe? Who knows....
Chuck