The Truth about Oktava microphones
fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk
On behalf of A & F McKay Audio limited and Oktava AO Tula,
we are aware of Mr johnsons activities on the
internet and are taking legal steps to have them stopped. You will notice
if you visit mr Johnsons site that he does not call the microphones Oktava,
but RTT, this is because he does not have the right to advertise his
products as oktava. We do not deal with RTT microphones, these are not
authorised sales from or with the consent of the Oktava factory, and we have
taken legal action to make sure that these mics are not referred to as
Oktava.
RTT microphones are not covered by any Oktava warantees/guarantees. -
whereas Oktava microphpones naturally are.
A & F McKay Audio limited are the sole worldwide distributors of Oktava
product, and this can be varified by the factory. We have appointed Guitar
center as our US representative, and I can assure you that they buy
thousands of Oktava microphones - in comparison to the 10 or so per month
that Mr Johnson manages to get hold of by illegal grey importation. It has
come to our attention that Mr Johnson has claimed that guitar center get
"seconds" and "factory rejects" . Oktava do not manufacture thousands of
"seconds" per month, and only 15 or so good microphones.
It can be easily shown that the stock levels at The Sound Room are never
high enough to satisfy any kind of large order, but that The Guitar center
constantly has - nationwide - an inventory of over a thousand Oktavas.
Due to the small level of sales that Mr Johnson takes from us we have
desisted from taking a heavy hand so far, but recent allegations made by his
organisation have led to the instigation of legal proceedings.
For further information on releases of genuine Oktava product please visit
www.oktava.net and join the mailing list there. You will then be informed
of the dates of release of new product into Guitar Center stores.
Fergus McKay
Tonebarge
then you're only in it for the money and not for the love of the sport. Silly
me. Guess I'll mosey on over to http://www.sound-room.com and buy another mic
from Taylor. I sure as hell wouldn't buy one from you (through those "great"
reps you appointed).
For what it's worth, I can see one result of your actions being Taylor on ebay
with blurred logos. Any idea what +that+ will do to GC's sales? Put on your
thinking cap and go kill yourself.
Thank you,
TB
fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
--
"All Your Base Are Belong To Us"
John Rice
up and buy a set of Oktavas from the Sound Room before they get shut
down so I don't have to buy them from Guitar Center! ;-)
John L Rice
Dru...@ImJohn.com
<fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:972oa7$48g$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
Joe Egan
Room. No one is suggesting that Oktava makes only a few good mics per month,
but rather that their QC is not very high (read the RAP posts about trying out
various mics at Guitar-O-Rama and the noticable inconsistencies).
People respect a dealer who goes out of his way to cull the best mics from the
bunch. I plan to buy a pair of Oktava/RTT/whatever-you-want-to-call-them MC
012s from the Sound Room in the near future. If I have to go to Guitar-O-Rama
to buy them, I'll buy something else from a reputable pro audio dealer instead.
You should be thrilled that the because of the Sound Room, Oktavas are
recognized by professionals as being worthy of consideration. Guitar-O-Rama
isn't doing that for the brand, believe me.
Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com
WillStG
Center mics suck? They should be giving Taylor Johnson a deal, not a lawsuit.
Will Miho
>Subject: The Truth about Oktava microphones
>Path:
>lobby!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Ci
dera!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-fo
r-mail
>From: fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk
>Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
>Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:07:04 -0000
>Organization: Customer of Energis Squared
>Lines: 42
>Message-ID: <972oa7$48g$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-175.dragonette.dialup.pol.co.uk
>X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 982836359 4368 62.137.2.175 (22 Feb 2001
>10:05:59 GMT)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Feb 2001 10:05:59 GMT
>X-Complaints-To: ab...@theplanet.net
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
>
Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Peter Pollack
> Due to the small level of sales that Mr Johnson takes from us we have
> desisted from taking a heavy hand so far, but recent allegations made
> by his
> organisation have led to the instigation of legal proceedings.
Blah, blah, blah. Who wants to bet that this maneuver was instituted at
the request of some middle-management bozo at Guitar Center?
On the subject of GC: Good choice for an exclusive retail outlet. I
take it you've never actually shopped there?
-Pete Pollack
u...@bignoisybug.com
dgkenney
> center as our US representative,
This is the best ad yet for the Marshall 603s
Dan
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.228 / Virus Database: 109 - Release Date: 1/17/01
Scott Dorsey
>fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Due to the small level of sales that Mr Johnson takes from us we have
>> desisted from taking a heavy hand so far, but recent allegations made
>> by his
>> organisation have led to the instigation of legal proceedings.
>
>Blah, blah, blah. Who wants to bet that this maneuver was instituted at
>the request of some middle-management bozo at Guitar Center?
I dunno. Dealing with McKay can be an adventure at times... just ask the
folks at Harris/Allied who originally were the McKay outlet for the Oktava
products before Guitar Center took over.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
hank alrich
> A & F McKay Audio limited are the sole worldwide distributors of Oktava
> product, and this can be varified by the factory. We have appointed Guitar
> center as our US representative, and I can assure you that they buy
> thousands of Oktava microphones - in comparison to the 10 or so per month
> that Mr Johnson manages to get hold of by illegal grey importation. It has
> come to our attention that Mr Johnson has claimed that guitar center get
> "seconds" and "factory rejects" . Oktava do not manufacture thousands of
> "seconds" per month, and only 15 or so good microphones.
And I suppose the collective ear of the world's practiced listener's is
deafer than your shoe leather? I can understand your concern for
trademark usage, etc., but don't come here trying to kid us about mic
quality.
If GC were the only outlet for those mics you'd have zero chance selling
me one.
--
hank alrich * secret__mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
Scott Dorsey
>
>A & F McKay Audio limited are the sole worldwide distributors of Oktava
>product, and this can be varified by the factory. We have appointed Guitar
>center as our US representative, and I can assure you that they buy
>thousands of Oktava microphones - in comparison to the 10 or so per month
>that Mr Johnson manages to get hold of by illegal grey importation. It has
>come to our attention that Mr Johnson has claimed that guitar center get
>"seconds" and "factory rejects" . Oktava do not manufacture thousands of
>"seconds" per month, and only 15 or so good microphones.
I have repaired several hundred microphones which people have purchased
at Guitar Center and were unable to get support for from that company.
I have been truly amazed at the difference in production quality between
the Sound Room units and the ones which you are selling.
If you wish to appoint Guitar Center as your representative, that is fine.
I would much rather deal with your previous representative, Harris/Allied,
than deal with the people at Guitar Center, but that's your right. But
please don't tell me that they are getting standard quality products.
I have seen the stuff they are selling... most of them have boards which
are not defluxed. The noise floor on the input FET varies radically from
one unit to the next. Many of them have incorrect value leak and
polarization resistors. This is not good. How can you say that these
are not seconds? If this is standard line production, something is very,
very wrong.
And, of course, Guitar Center seems entirely unable to support what they
sell.
>It can be easily shown that the stock levels at The Sound Room are never
>high enough to satisfy any kind of large order, but that The Guitar center
>constantly has - nationwide - an inventory of over a thousand Oktavas.
That's fine. But the average customer doesn't want to buy a thousand.
The average customer wants to buy one or two, that work. Guitar Center
is falling down on job with their ability to provide this. Since you
are providing their product, you should know that their lack of support
and inconsistent quality is giving _your_ product a bad name.
>Due to the small level of sales that Mr Johnson takes from us we have
>desisted from taking a heavy hand so far, but recent allegations made by his
>organisation have led to the instigation of legal proceedings.
This is a shame, since Mr. Johnson is in fact providing the best advertising
around for the product which you sell.
JnyVee.
>
> <fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:972oa7$48g$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
> > We have appointed Guitar
> > center as our US representative,
>
> This is the best ad yet for the Marshall 603s
Except that the money paid into the 603 end goes to help the Chinese
government. Your choice.
Let's not get into it.
LS1productions
said before that I compared my GC 012s to Sound Room 012s and found no
difference. However, the fact that Taylor puts in the extra effort to make
sure that his mics are of high quality, is professional and impressive. Not to
mention, the guy is truely a good dude to talk to, and knows a lot. By taking
him out of the chain, you would lose a lot of reputation amongst pros.
James Perrett
>
> You go, girl. May I comment on your choice of US reps. Not a great move but
> then you're only in it for the money and not for the love of the sport. Silly
> me. Guess I'll mosey on over to http://www.sound-room.com and buy another mic
> from Taylor. I sure as hell wouldn't buy one from you (through those "great"
> reps you appointed).
>
> For what it's worth, I can see one result of your actions being Taylor on ebay
> with blurred logos. Any idea what +that+ will do to GC's sales? Put on your
> thinking cap and go kill yourself.
>
The McKay's haven't helped their cause by posting things like this but
it isn't the first time. I was put off buying Octava Mics a few years
ago after reading a less than helpful response from them to a letter
complaining about problems with Octava mics in Sound on Sound. They
aren't the most astute people when it comes to PR but maybe they are
selling enough mics for it not to matter.
James.
--
**********************************************************************
* James Perrett Ocean Engineering Division *
* Southampton Oceanography Centre, *
* Empress Dock, Southampton SO14 3ZH, U.K. *
* Phone +44 (0)23 8059 6141, Fax +44 (0)23 8059 6149 *
* e-mail jrp @ soc . soton . ac . uk http://www.soc.soton.ac.uk/ *
**********************************************************************
Trevor de Clercq
Guitar Center, Oktava would be just another crappy low-end mic brand.
Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq
Lyle Caldwell
never seen one print ad in any established industry magazine for Oktava.
And I would never go into a GC to encounter them there.
Someone is about to shoot themselves in the foot.
--
Lyle Caldwell
Psionic Media, Inc
"Trevor de Clercq" <tdec...@fcstrategy.com> wrote in message
news:3A954BD2...@fcstrategy.com...
Scott Dorsey
>If not for Taylor, most of us would never have heard of Oktava. I have
>never seen one print ad in any established industry magazine for Oktava.
When Harris/Allied was distributing the Oktava stuff for McKay, they put
ads in all the broadcast magazines, and showed the things off at NAB and
the AES show. I got a couple of them from Harris, and I really like
dealing with Harris a lot as box houses go.
Then McKay pulled the line from Harris/Allied and wouldn't sell them any
longer. I had thought that McKay stopped selling them anywhere, but then
Guitar Center popped up with them.
>And I would never go into a GC to encounter them there.
>Someone is about to shoot themselves in the foot.
You know, I have never been to a Guitar Center before.
Bob Smith
>
> Taylor Johnson is THE reason people respect the Oktava name. If it were up to
> Guitar Center, Oktava would be just another crappy low-end mic brand.
>
> fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>
> > IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
> > Fergus McKay
I agree with Trevor. If it weren't for Taylor Johnson and the Sound
Room, Oktava wouldn't be on my consideration list. If Guitar Center is
the only outlet available, Oktava gets crossed off from future lists or
recommendations.
bobs
we organize chaos
--
Bob Smith - BS Studios
rsm...@bsstudios.com
http://www.bsstudios.com
Ty Ford
>IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
>
>On behalf of A & F McKay Audio limited and Oktava AO Tula,
>we are aware of Mr johnsons activities on the
>internet and are taking legal steps to have them stopped. You will notice
>if you visit mr Johnsons site that he does not call the microphones Oktava,
>but RTT, this is because he does not have the right to advertise his
>products as oktava. We do not deal with RTT microphones, these are not
>authorised sales from or with the consent of the Oktava factory, and we have
>taken legal action to make sure that these mics are not referred to as
>Oktava.
>
>RTT microphones are not covered by any Oktava warantees/guarantees. -
>whereas Oktava microphpones naturally are.
Know what? Anyone who puts their faith in a company with products that vary
so greatly from piece to piece is playing Russian Roulette with their
project and their professional reputation.
If they were made right and QC'd properly in the first place, we all would
have been saved from this extremely over-tired topic.
We don't want mics or other gear that "sort of works" depending on which one
you happen to end up with. Make 'em work or turn out the light and close the
door. Or start OEMing for a consumer label where quality doesn't matter as much.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Ty Ford's audio equipment reviews and V/O sound files can be accessed at
http://www.jagunet.com/~tford
JnyVee.
by direct email as well. I did. I didn't post it here and that works as
I didn't say much of anything that you all havent said as well or
better.
jv
Taylor Johnson
> IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
> .........
> Fergus McKay
In "partial response to Mr. McKay's recent post.
In official and unofficial posts and telephone conversations with other
engineers, please know that the SOUND ROOM has ALWAYS maintained that:
1) The Sound Room is NOT and official, licensed dealer or rep of the OKTAVA
microphone product line from Tula, Russia.
2) To our knowledge the ONLY licensed representative is the McKay organization
and their duly appointed reps.
3) When asked by retail outlets if they may become a dealer for OKTAVA products
I immediately refer the iquiries to the McKay organization.
4) Yes, the SOUND ROOM does NOT have available the OKTAVA warranty services,
therefore we warranty all of our Russian products FIRST through our Russian
affiliate, RTT (Russian Transducer Technologies).
5) I have NEVER, EVER said, publicly or privately, that THE GUITAR CENTER,
knowingly or otherwise, engages in the sale of "factory seconds", "rejects", or
otherwise " lower quality" goods from any manufacturer.
6) I HAVE made the statement that, after our reps and myself have gone through
(the limited amount of) product available to us and have chosen which ones we
will put through the next steps in our QC, testing, measuring, packaging and
selling to the public - we do not KNOW what happens to the units that we return
(refuse) to the original sales source.
While not wanting to continue a "thread" of only marginal interest, I must say
that, 4 years ago, the OKTAVA company was known for producing interesting and
useful products at a very competitive price point. However, it was also common
knowledge that the product QC was marginal, and resulted in difficulties for
dealers and users alike.
In the past few years, most engineers have seen the OKTAVA product and name
enjoying a better reputation and more use in professional and home recording
applications. Since the McKay organization has not changed their policies then
this must be a result of increased QC efforts on behalf of the OKTAVA company
(which we have seen) or the availability of professional-level OKTAVA product
reaching the market and enjoying high-quality support, service, sales staff,
quality control and access to parts. How has this been possible? How has the
name of OKTAVA and the associated product line come to enjoy somewhat of a
"rennaissance"?
The SOUND ROOM chooses to not only sell and support many Russian microphone
manufacturers and the products which we , ourselves, use and enjoy, but we also
support and sell new microphone models that we think other engineers will enjoy.
Also, on a personal note, I would like to thank the many members of the REC
AUDIO PRO newsgroup for their support in making us keep high standards in the
products we offer to the public - as well as providing the challenge, interest
in and support of my NEW line of products, T.H.E. (Taylor Hohendal Engineering)
microphones. It has directly been the support and interest of this newsgroup
which has encouraged us (and me, personally) to come up with new products that
meet the demand of modern recordists, and we are proud of our personal
relationship with many of our clients - as well as being proud that we can be
of real service with our current product line, development products, service,
quality control and the other efforts that we make in our public and private
work.
Thank you for your attention, now, stop reading articles on the internet and do
something useful like play music, do a session, invent new products, have fun
and "don't worry, be happy!"
Regards,
Taylor Johnson
Owner, The Sound Room
JnyVee.
thanks Mr Johnson!
jv
Shane A. Bushman
justify the price difference between GUitar Center and the Sound Room. Regardless
of the quality of service Taylor gives (which is reputed to be excellent btw)
people need to understand that they CAN still go to guitar center and get a GREAT
oktave for $150 bucks as well. I have two that are superb. I also can say that I
listened to almost 20 (i made them bring out every one in the house - which they
did because I give them so much business) and of those only 2 had problems. One
was (i believe) due to a bad capsule (other capsules worked fine on the preamp, and
the other was a bad preamp (ground hum) but that was due to the XLR connector being
to tight and not fitting properly. The two I got are pretty well matched (the best
my ear can do) and perform excellently.
Taylor will test your mics and match them...but he'll double the price. For half
price I'm happy to do that myslef. Who care if the GC reps don't know jack...i
don't expect them to. that's why we all culminate here to share info.
In other words, a bad Oktava should be just as evident to you or me as it is to
Taylor at the sound room. If you want to save the buck, take a pair of phones you
know well and listen to the mics before you drop the cash.
Shane
CRitual
microphones as a quality low cost item (with the neccessary added qc of course)
and choose to announce this in a forum which contains many of his most loyal
customers (myself very included)?! thats a good one. I'm sure we're all very
impressed and surprised with the fact that Ye Olde Guitar Barn buys them
thousands at a time and that this lines the pockets of the McKay clan quite
nicely, but what part of WHO GIVES A FUCK don't you understand? As Scott
already mentioned, the average consumer (remember us?) have no interest in the
volumes of business that you do each month. We want our one or two products
that we buy to be of consistent reliable quality, and to buy from an agent who
cares about whether or not we are satisfied, and provides us with support,
information and prompt service when we need it. Sound like Sound Room anyone?
Grrrrrr!
Sean
Nate Tschetter
Jolly good. That darn Taylor guy talks too much on the phone and gets
all nosey...asking you about your current mic collection, what sort of
things you record, giving advice for upgrades of mics you already have.
Oh, and the worst thing was when he replaced a pad that went south 6
months after purchase.
Based on company names alone, where should I buy my next piece of pro
audio equipment....
A.) Guitar Center
B.) The Sound Room
Hmmm...
This is the most telling statement in your post:
"We have appointed Guitar
center as our US representative, and I can assure you that they buy
thousands of Oktava microphones - in comparison to the 10 or so per month
that Mr Johnson manages to get hold of by illegal grey importation."
Ah...duckets...
I'll keep spending my duckets with Taylor.
--
"You have to know something before you know something."
Nate (Doraemon) Tschetter
Sonic Taxidermist
www.gluethemoose.com
YBStudios
>microphones as a quality low cost item (with the neccessary added qc of
>course)
>and choose to announce this in a forum which contains many of his most loyal
>customers (myself very included)?! thats a good one. I'm sure we're all very
>impressed and surprised with the fact that Ye Olde Guitar Barn buys them
>thousands at a time and that this lines the pockets of the McKay clan quite
<clip>
IMHO, it's a short term vision. Get as much as they can for 12 months and the
market drys up for lack of consistent quality and service. These guys aren't
in it for the long haul. They're looking strickly at short term volume.
They're in the same class as Behringer, or lower.
Wayne@Yellow Booth Studios
Montgomery, AL
David Morgan (MAMS)
<fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message ...
> We have appointed Guitar
> center as our US representative
I can almost certainly assure you that there is not a salesman anywhere
in the entire chain of Guitar Centers that has either been factory trained
or is personally capable of actually "representing" your product outside
of the possible words :
"Yeah... I've got that one in stock - it's real cheap and is now excluded
from our return policy. We also cannot service this product - how many
do you want ?".
Woooooooooo.... Some "rep.", eh ? Let's get technical.
I was lucky to have tried them long ago and was able to return the
wretched things to Guitar Center before the return policy changed .
Should my interest ever return to these microphones, I will not do business
with your current "representatives" a second time. From the often spoken
about customer service and Q.C. offerred by Taylor Johnson and The Sound
Room, I will certainly look to do business there. I am deeply sorry if this
adversly effects your profit margin and/or sales quota, but as you have
stated, it does not do so as the volume in question is so low.
--
David Morgan (MAMS)
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (972) 622-1972
_______________________________________
Main Street Studio, Garland, TX (972) 487-4045
Bob Smith
>
> IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
>
> It can be easily shown that the stock levels at The Sound Room are never
> high enough to satisfy any kind of large order, but that The Guitar center
> constantly has - nationwide - an inventory of over a thousand Oktavas.
"Money! It's a hit. Don't give me that good good good bullshit."
with appologies to R. Waters.
Jim Gilliland
>
> This is a shame, since Mr. Johnson is in fact providing the best advertising
> around for the product which you sell.
That's the irony of this whole thing. If it weren't for Taylor Johnson
getting good quality hand-picked units into the hands of some
influential professionals, the MC012 wouldn't have the good reputation
that it now enjoys, and Guitar Center's sales of these mics would easily
be 50% to 75% lower than they are today. McKay is trying to silence
their best ambassador.
I've read Taylor Johnson's posts here, and he has never claimed that the
Guitar Center units were "seconds", "rejects", "substandard", or
anything other than standard production from the factory. The lower
reputation of the GC units has instead come from people like you, Scott,
who have had first hand experience with the varied quality to be found
in an average GC batch.
Bill Roper
Scott Dorsey <klu...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>And I would never go into a GC to encounter them there.
>>Someone is about to shoot themselves in the foot.
>
>You know, I have never been to a Guitar Center before.
My wife and I have been to Guitar Center. She's informed me that she'll
never go there again and since she was the one who was getting things
there, I don't have any reason to go back there either.
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Paolo Tramannoni
wrote:
> Taylor Johnson is THE reason people respect the Oktava name. If it were
> up to Guitar Center, Oktava would be just another crappy low-end mic
> brand.
And not only in the USA. For what it's worth, most Oktava mics sold in
Italy come from the Sound Room. While there is an official distributor
(and, now, a parallel importer), the name of these mics has been spread
around by Taylor Johnson and Michail Vladimirsky, mouth to ear from
musician to musician.
Best regards,
Paolo
--
Paolo Tramannoni
Porto Recanati, Italy
John Deacon
Dear Octava Guy.............
I had bough 2 of these from guitar center in austin, i looked them over,
and after rejecting a number for actual physical damage for a start tested
them and paid,
after paying i was informed i could not have the extra set of capsules as
octava were too slow in shipping things, 2 weeks later still no capsules
from octava, i get the feeling we were ripped off by this advertisement
from GC.........
I called the store manager and he said i coul dhave one of the boxes
containing the caps and the mic, so i drive all the way into town, lo and
behold the little idiot behind the counter says no. I told him the store
manager said it was ok the day before, (thanks larry in austin).. I leave
disgusted.....
I then call and ask to speak to the person who sold them to me, p,,,,,,,,
and was told theres never been anyone here who has that name.
I then call and talk to someone else in pro audio who basically said it
was my fault, i shoul dhave special ordered the capsules, i 'nicely'
pointed out that they should do this not me, where he seemed to loose
interest in my call.
So then i call back and ask for their corporate office number, got it,,
call it,,,,,,, bbbrrrrrrrrppppppp brrrrppppppp its the fax machine, so i
call back and say you gave me the fax number not the voice number for
corporate, and was told, 'you didnt call here and get that number', after
more of this i get the number from them
I then talked to their coprporate office, and
a nice guy :), said i could go there and swap the things for two of the
kits with the extra capsules, he gets larry the manager on the phone, and
basically tells him to sort it out, larry offers 2 of the kits, and i make
a point of saying, please put them behind the counter, i am coming into
town tomorrow, all seems ok, larry says he'll take care of it...
Tomorrow comes
I drive into town, its 10 o'clock on a saturday morning, the doors open
and i rush into the pro audio section,
hey guys, i talked to larry yesterday and he saids he would leave me the
mics to swap,,,,,
oh no sir, youre mistaken they start again, we dont have capsules, we only
have them in the kits with the microphones,,,,, i know that ,,,,,
so larry didnt tell them,,,,,,
so off i go back home, what do you do about this MR Oktava.......
Your microphones may be OK and good value, but whats the Fucking point if
you cant get what you paid for,,,,,,,,,
Keep Taylor on, set him up with microphones if u have to, but i would bet
if you get rid of him you will stop your microphones being used in
anything but moronic Guitar Center designed home studios, and what the
hell is with the free audio buddy with the 319, is it really designed to
make your microphones sound like crap
Guitar Center You are all idiots
Oktava realize when someone if doing you a favour selling your mics, with
good service , to thre recording industry,,,
I see you are in the UK, being originally from there i would also like to
assure the rest of RAP that not all people from the UK are this narrow
minded,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Thank you octave, you have inspired me to buy an old set of KM84's like i
should have donme in the first place, and my only impression of Okctaver
will remain 2 little plastic boxes with mics in them and the constant
reminder that due to your company i am out of pocket for these capsules
John Deacon
Granite Records
On Thu,
Ty Ford
I'm working on a new piece of gear that is theoretically capable of 24/96
TDIF transfers and am looking for a way to prove it. Anybody out there in
the neighborhood?
j. taylor
"Shane A. Bushman" wrote:Taylor will test your mics and match them...but he'll double
the price. For half price I'm happy to do that myslef. Who care if the GC reps don't
know jack...i
> don't expect them to. that's why we all culminate here to share info.
I do NOT culminate here. Fulminate sometimes, but I try to culminate in private.
; )
Will Hunt
By the way, what do folks do when the MC 12 threads strip? I found that you can just
give
the capsule a little final push toward the body, then it'll stick, but this can't work
more than
another couple a' times..... I fear duct tape is next....
(it's a friend's mic-not mine-I woulda been more careful but this thing's getting
coffee house
duty-almost as bad as a studio....)
Michal
Ty Ford wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working on a new piece of gear that is theoretically capable of 24/96
> TDIF transfers and am looking for a way to prove it. Anybody out there in
> the neighborhood?
>
Dear Ty,
What is this piece of gear?
We were using TDIF in a "dual wire" mode for awhile in our 8X96 converters
to for example record 4 tracks of 24/96 using Tascam DA78HR. I'd be happy to
share experience with you.
Michal @ Mytek
*********************************************
http://www.mytekdigital.com >>>>>>
24 bit 48/96 k Digital Audio Converters
DAW 9624 (tm) Digital Audio Workstation Hardware
*********************************************
Michal
Ty Ford wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working on a new piece of gear that is theoretically capable of 24/96
> TDIF transfers and am looking for a way to prove it. Anybody out there in
> the neighborhood?
>
Dear Ty,
Michal
Ty Ford wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working on a new piece of gear that is theoretically capable of 24/96
> TDIF transfers and am looking for a way to prove it. Anybody out there in
> the neighborhood?
>
Dear Ty,
hank alrich
You bethca, Johnny. Was a natural reflex.
--
hank alrich * secret__mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
hank alrich
> But look at it this way. Several people are without Oktavas because they
> couldn't justify the price difference between GUitar Center and the Sound
> Room.
This is not life threatening, is it?
> Regardless of the quality of service Taylor gives (which is reputed to be
> excellent btw) people need to understand that they CAN still go to guitar
> center and get a GREAT oktave for $150 bucks as well.
They might and they might not. See Scott Dorsey's comment aboaut
support.
> I have two that are superb. I also can say that I listened to almost 20
> (i made them bring out every one in the house - which they did because I
> give them so much business) and of those only 2 had problems. One was (i
> believe) due to a bad capsule (other capsules worked fine on the preamp,
> and the other was a bad preamp (ground hum) but that was due to the XLR
> connector being to tight and not fitting properly. The two I got are
> pretty well matched (the best my ear can do) and perform excellently.
And in your own small sample alone, 10% of the Oktavas were unusable.
This is _after_ whatever QC McKay postures about.
> Taylor will test your mics and match them...but he'll double the price.
> For half price I'm happy to do that myslef. Who care if the GC reps don't
> know jack...i don't expect them to. that's why we all culminate here to
> share info.
Are you comparing apples to apples, Shane? How many capsules came with
your Okatvas? All three for $150 per mic? Or just one?
> In other words, a bad Oktava should be just as evident to you or me as it
> is to Taylor at the sound room. If you want to save the buck, take a pair
> of phones you know well and listen to the mics before you drop the cash.
Again, see Scott Dorsey's comments. If the GC Oktavas start out fine and
then crap out, would one have preferred to have bought them from Taylor,
who is serious about support, or will one be thrilled about trying to
get help from McKay and/or Goober Center?
hank alrich
> fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> > IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
> > On behalf of A & F McKay Audio limited and Oktava AO Tula,
> > It can be easily shown that the stock levels at The Sound Room are never
> > high enough to satisfy any kind of large order, but that The Guitar center
> > constantly has - nationwide - an inventory of over a thousand Oktavas.
> "Money! It's a hit. Don't give me that good good good bullshit."
> with appologies to R. Waters.
So, with a thousand of 'em in Goober Center stock nationwide
"constantly", and going by the report from Shane Bushman who touted the
cheapness of getting them from GC, where two out of twenty he examined
were unusable, does it follow that GC right at this very damn moment
possibly has in stock approximately _two hundred_ non-functioning Oktava
MC012s? If so, these McKay folks must be busting their shorts with
comporate pride.
Scott Dorsey
>
>Again, see Scott Dorsey's comments. If the GC Oktavas start out fine and
>then crap out, would one have preferred to have bought them from Taylor,
>who is serious about support, or will one be thrilled about trying to
>get help from McKay and/or Goober Center?
Hey, no matter where you got it, you can send it to me and for standard
studio rate I'll fix it. This comes to something like $25 for defluxing
the PC board, but could be something like a couple hundred bucks to
change out all the tantalums and the FET.
hank alrich
> Bob Smith <rsm...@oz.net> wrote:
>
> > fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>
> > > IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
>
> > > On behalf of A & F McKay Audio limited and Oktava AO Tula,
>
> > > It can be easily shown that the stock levels at The Sound Room are never
> > > high enough to satisfy any kind of large order, but that The Guitar center
> > > constantly has - nationwide - an inventory of over a thousand Oktavas.
>
> > "Money! It's a hit. Don't give me that good good good bullshit."
>
> > with appologies to R. Waters.
>
> So, with a thousand of 'em in Goober Center stock nationwide
> "constantly", and going by the report from Shane Bushman who touted the
> cheapness of getting them from GC, where two out of twenty he examined
> were unusable, does it follow that GC right at this very damn moment
> possibly has in stock approximately _two hundred_ non-functioning Oktava
> MC012s? If so, these McKay folks must be busting their shorts with
> comporate pride.
Me bad. Damned arithmetic, anyway. Should'va had Dorsey calc it for me.
10% of a thousand is only a hundred. So there'd only be a hundred
useless Oktavas at GC via McKay. Would that be enough? And if they
stocked two thousand...
Andy Carrell
at guitar center based soley upon price.....
guitar center....mc012 mic w/ 1 capsule, not
tested or matched, in a shitty
plastic case....
approximately $150.00 ea
www.sound-room.com ....mc012 mic w/ 3
capsules, tested and matched, in a nice wood
case... approximately $299.00
each
what this means, is though you pay twice the price, you get 3 TIMES the
mic, guaranteed quality, AND a nice case to boot....and if you ask any
of the guys here at R.A.P., they'll tell you that having the omni,
cardoid, and hyper-cardoid capsules available is what makes these mics a
real bargain....great sound with tons of flexibility.....
just thought you should know.....
andy
and besides.....GC sucks...... : )
<:>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on"...
Dean Martin
Shane A. Bushman
has great service, warranty, etc. I understand that) but most of you whom
purchased your mics from Sound Room are the guys posting horror stories about
Guitar Center mics, and I was glad that i didn;'t believe them before testing the
mics and purchasing a good pair. i can believe oktava has or had a QC problem as
that is common in some companies (The Canon A1-Digital camcorder was a superior
device...1 out of 5 had defects that made them unusable...they were shelved and
sold everywhere) but if you examine the mics closely I'm sure you will get just as
nice sounding mics as I. THen, maybe purchasiung a matched capsule pair from
Sound Room later is a good idea...just admit that anyone with common sense and a
decent attention to detail will be able to spot most defects before they leave the
store. You don't have to like Guitar Center to purchase mics there...and of
course, as educated as most people in this group are, I dounbt anyone needs the
advice of any sales rep. So who cares whether they know what they're talking about
or not.
I obviously upset a lot of people with my post (as I see from the # of reply's)
but all I am saying is that for $150, at Guitar Center, any of you can get a great
deal on a sweet sounding Oktava mic. You can also get the same mic with 2 more
capsules and a wood box from The Sound Room for $300 (twice the price). You
decide which is better for you. For $300 bucks I got two, and they both work
flawlessly and sound fantastic.
Shane
Huw Jones
YBStudios wrote:
> IMHO, it's a short term vision. Get as much as they can for 12 months and the
> market drys up for lack of consistent quality and service. These guys aren't
> in it for the long haul. They're looking strickly at short term volume.
> They're in the same class as Behringer, or lower.
I'm not sure your right about this.
McKays have been selling the Oktava mics in the UK for around 10yrs as
far as I know.
I would also not put them in the same class as Behringer, i've spoken
with these fellas at shows and they seemed genuinely serious about their
stuff.
Obviously I can't comment on GC though.
Huw
York
UK
Huw Jones
is a GC one.
Here in the UK Oktavas come with 18mths warranty and supply of single
mics or the mic and 3 capsule kit does not appear to be a problem.
I bought a pair the other day, both work fine and are well matched to my
ears.
I do remember McKays having legal problems with another Oktava importer
over here about 5 years ago though so I guess they are very protective
of their brand.
Huw
York
UK
George Perfect
McKays - just facts.
Here in the UK I recently bought three Oktava mics (one MK319 and two MC012
three capsule sets) from Digital Village who source from McKay. All three
mics work correctly, including all six capsules and both pads for the MC's.
My experience to date is 100% reliability. May mean nothing tomorrow but the
same can be said of any purchase.
--
George
Newcastle, England
(please remove leading 'x' from email address to reply directly - thanks)
Bryson
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> <snip>
>
> You know, I have never been to a Guitar Center before.
Man!! And I thought you were cool before!
Tim
Rick Knepper
Allow me to assure you that I will comply with your wishes and never buy an
Oktava microphone from The Sound Room. Of course, I will never buy an Oktava
mic from any of your licensed dealers either. Grey market or licensed
dealer - right or wrong, these microphones do not fit into the type of sound
I'm personally going after based on the testing I've done with them in my
own studio. Sorry.
You are right. There would seem to be no reasonable QC issue sufficient to
expect a perfect specimen to sound that much better than the units I had
here for evaluation. Short of a Stephen Paul upgrade, I think I'll pass on
these microphones.
Good luck to all involved in this issue.
___
Rick Knepper
Wasted Potential Productions
MicroComputer Support Services
Po Box 1461
Ft. Worth, TX 76101
817-239-9632 business hours
817-737-4002 after 6 PM
413-215-1267 eFax
Project Studio
CD Duplication - Budget Short Runs
PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales
http://www.wastedpotential.com
<fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:972oa7$48g$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN RUMOURS CIRCULATING ABOUT OKTAVA MICROPHONES
>
> On behalf of A & F McKay Audio limited and Oktava AO Tula,
> we are aware of Mr johnsons activities on the
> internet and are taking legal steps to have them stopped. You will notice
> if you visit mr Johnsons site that he does not call the microphones
Oktava,
> but RTT, this is because he does not have the right to advertise his
> products as oktava. We do not deal with RTT microphones, these are not
> authorised sales from or with the consent of the Oktava factory, and we
have
> taken legal action to make sure that these mics are not referred to as
> Oktava.
>
> RTT microphones are not covered by any Oktava warantees/guarantees. -
> whereas Oktava microphpones naturally are.
>
> A & F McKay Audio limited are the sole worldwide distributors of Oktava
> product, and this can be varified by the factory. We have appointed
Guitar
> center as our US representative, and I can assure you that they buy
> thousands of Oktava microphones - in comparison to the 10 or so per month
> that Mr Johnson manages to get hold of by illegal grey importation. It
has
> come to our attention that Mr Johnson has claimed that guitar center get
> "seconds" and "factory rejects" . Oktava do not manufacture thousands of
> "seconds" per month, and only 15 or so good microphones.
>
> It can be easily shown that the stock levels at The Sound Room are never
> high enough to satisfy any kind of large order, but that The Guitar center
> constantly has - nationwide - an inventory of over a thousand Oktavas.
>
> Due to the small level of sales that Mr Johnson takes from us we have
> desisted from taking a heavy hand so far, but recent allegations made by
his
> organisation have led to the instigation of legal proceedings.
>
> For further information on releases of genuine Oktava product please visit
> www.oktava.net and join the mailing list there. You will then be informed
> of the dates of release of new product into Guitar Center stores.
>
>
>
>
> Fergus McKay
>
>
Scott Dorsey
>
>Me bad. Damned arithmetic, anyway. Should'va had Dorsey calc it for me.
>10% of a thousand is only a hundred. So there'd only be a hundred
>useless Oktavas at GC via McKay. Would that be enough? And if they
>stocked two thousand...
Remember that GC has the policy of putting returns back into stock, so
they'll keep selling a bad one over and over again until they find someone
who doesn't complain about it. Radio Shack seems to do this also.
--scott
Scott Dorsey
>
>I'm not sure your right about this.
>McKays have been selling the Oktava mics in the UK for around 10yrs as
>far as I know.
True, but they've sure had a hell of a time getting US distributors to
take them seriously.
>I would also not put them in the same class as Behringer, i've spoken
>with these fellas at shows and they seemed genuinely serious about their
>stuff.
Next time you do, ask them why Harris/Allied doesn't carry their line any
more.
hank alrich
> message for shane ....or anyone else thinking of purchasing oktava mics
> at guitar center based soley upon price.....
> guitar center....mc012 mic w/ 1 capsule, not
> tested or matched, in a shitty
> plastic case....
> approximately $150.00 ea
> www.sound-room.com ....mc012 mic w/ 3
> capsules, tested and matched, in a nice wood
> case... approximately $299.00
> each
> what this means, is though you pay twice the price, you get 3 TIMES the
> mic, guaranteed quality, AND a nice case to boot
Thank you. When people tout the cheapness of Oktavas from GC they
generally seem to overlook that the products delivered are not
comparable, either by quality or quantity.
Taylor Johnson
The McKays have asked me to post a "disclaimer" on the oktava.com site. I shall do
so. I shall also post it here, where this thread originated.
Disclaimer:
"1) The Sound Room, is not an authorized representative of the Oktava AO (microphone
manufacturing) Company located in Tula, Russia. The only known representatve is the
A&F McKay company in England.
2) The Sound Room is not connected with the U.S. retail outlet The Guitar Center.
3) Rumors have been circulating from unknown sources that The Guitar Center sells
“factory seconds” of the Oktava product to the public. As we have stated publicly
many times, to our knowledge The Guitar Center does not sell “factory seconds” from
any manufacturer at any time. We do not know how or where these rumors began. The
Sound Room has no control over these rumors.
4) The warranty services offered by The Sound Room are through the company RTT
(Russian Transducer Technologies)."
End of disclaimer.
Yes, any engineer has the right (and perhaps the duty) to examine any product sold
at/through any sales outlet. We hope that all recordists have the chance to test,
approve and competitively shop any product they buy. In the long run, this will be
better for the industry, as well as the individual engineer.
Taylor Johnson
The Sound Room
David Satz
Guitar Center misery in it (and it really takes a serious effort,
in my experience, to remember all the twists and turns):
> [ ... ] and what the hell is with the free audio buddy with
> the 319, is it really designed to make your microphones
> sound like crap
>
> Guitar Center You are all idiots
The Oktava MC 319's specs say that it requires 48 Volt phantom
powering +/- 4 Volts, and that it has a maximum output level of
1.2 Volts.
The Midiman "Audio Buddy" features:
-- 30 Volt phantom powering
-- an input overload point of less than 120 mV
-- a "clip" LED that only senses the outputs, not the inputs.
This tends to support Mr. Deacon's conclusion of idiocy. And I
wonder whether "A & F McKay Audio limited" approved this
brilliant package deal?
Brian Middleton
> 2) The Sound Room is not connected with the U.S. retail outlet The Guitar Center.
Boy, I bet they really had to pull out the rubber hose to get Mr. Johnson to agree to
this one....
Brian Middleton
Night Kitchen
Dorchester, Mass.
J.P.
MUCH better customer service than any Guitar Center I have ever walked into,
and considering my first Octavas that I purchased at a local GC had several
problems and my Sound Room mics haven't had any, I'll stick with the Sound
Room. I could care less how they get the mics, as long as they sound great and
work wuthout a glitch.
Mswindel
>Here in the UK I recently bought three Oktava mics (one MK319 and two MC012
>three capsule sets) from Digital Village who source from McKay. All three
>mics work correctly, including all six capsules and both pads for the MC's.
>My experience to date is 100% reliability.
I bought 6 from GC a few years ago. All worked correctly. Two sounded almost
identical to each other, and quite good. The other four did not sound as good,
and each had a slightly different character. I returned those and kept the
pair I liked.
But they all "worked correctly."
Mark Swindell
John Deacon
the mk319's overall sound, its like buying a neumann, and then being given
a free mxl capsule with it :)
phantom power really is an arbitrary figure usually, but my amek does put
out 48 on the nail
john
Scott Dorsey
>my point also was the actual sound, the audio buddy definately degrades
>the mk319's overall sound, its like buying a neumann, and then being given
>a free mxl capsule with it :)
That's not hard to do. Like most of the cheaper externally polarized
condenser mikes, the MK319 uses the phantom supply to directly polarize
the capsule without stepping up the voltage or regulating it. So any
reduction in phantom supply voltage really reduces the performance of
the thing.
>phantom power really is an arbitrary figure usually, but my amek does put
>out 48 on the nail
It's not arbitrary, it's 48V +/- 1V through a 6.81K resistor pair.
That's not very arbitrary at all. That's what the AES spec says.
David Morgan (MAMS)
"hank alrich" <walk...@thegrid.net> wrote in message news:1ep8u55.i6...@209-162-27-144.thegrid.net...
> JnyVee. <moc....@ybmurbrevlis.com> wrote:
>
> > Scott and Hank and others.. I do hope you;re forwarding these messages
> > by direct email as well. I did. I didn't post it here and that works as
> > I didn't say much of anything that you all havent said as well or
> > better.
>
> You bethca, Johnny. Was a natural reflex.
Ditto (again)
DM
Spcemusik
>Remember that GC has the policy of putting returns back into stock, so
>they'll keep selling a bad one over and over again until they find someone
>who doesn't complain about it. Radio Shack seems to do this also.
>--scott
I think that you are wrong there, Scott. I think that the RS stuff just never
works right in the first place, at least I've seldom had anything work right.
So why do I ever buy there...Duh!
Craig
George Perfect
news:20010223162200...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Ok - I'll rephrase pedantically:
I don't have test equipment to hand but the mics all sound fine to me.
Specifically, both MC012s sound close to each other (body to body and
capsule to capsule), do not exhibit excessive noise, distortion or other
nasties. The sound of the MC012s is as I expected from reading about them
here and elsewhere. As such they perform a valuable role alongside my other
mics as I expected. The MK319 has the character I expected from it and I
find it useful on the kind of voices for which I bought it. Therefore, I
have no reason to be unhappy about any of the Oktava mics I purchased.
Without expensive test equipment (and a suitable room in which to test) I'd
suggest that almost everyone here can say no more about the Neumanns,
Sennheisers and other well regarded mics they use. I have no way of proving
that the expensive mics I have used comply with their specs. The best I can
do is use my ears. Which I trust as *my* final arbiter in these matters.
Is that better?
Mike Rivers
In article <3A9587AA...@altavista.net> usemyl...@altavista.net writes:
> That's the irony of this whole thing. If it weren't for Taylor Johnson
> getting good quality hand-picked units into the hands of some
> influential professionals, the MC012 wouldn't have the good reputation
> that it now enjoys, and Guitar Center's sales of these mics would easily
> be 50% to 75% lower than they are today. McKay is trying to silence
> their best ambassador.
While I'd like to think so, sadly, I don't think this is true. I
recognize that there are many more lurkers than active posters here,
but there are far many more who don't read r.a.p., and don't even read
magazine reviews. They just go to GC and say "I wanna make a CD of my
band. I heard that I need a 'cadenza' mic. How much does one cost?".
That's where the largest customer base for the $150 mic lies.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mri...@d-and-d.com)
Mswindel
>
>I don't have test equipment to hand but the mics all sound fine to me.
Sorry if I offended. My point was simply that in my limited sample even those
CG Oktavas that performed within reasonable bounds showed variance. The "bad"
ones didn't sound terrible, and in fact sounded good compared to a lot of mics,
but there were a couple that were clearly better sounding to my ear, not to any
test equipment. Had I not had those others for direct comparison, I may have
thought they sounded fine. In addition to capsule variance (these were all
cardiod), I also found some variance with the -10db pads... I thought those
would be identical, but no. I'm quite happy with my Oktavas, btw, but I did
cherry pick them. Somebody else got the others. They're probably happy with
them, too.
Mark Swindell
Jim Gilliland
You may be right. The guy that you're describing is obviously the
customer that GC would have had regardless - part of that base
percentage that would have bought it on the GC sales pitch. But the
MC012 really does have a pretty good reputation, and I really think that
it has come largely from this newsgroup. You don't have to read r.a.p
to learn of that reputation - it has carried well beyond this newsgroup
by now. A lot of folks may have heard from a "pro" friend that it's a
decent mic - without ever realizing where the info originated.
But my wild-guess estimates have no real basis, just a gut feel. I
could be way off base.
Roger W. Norman
better with Rick Chinn's phantom power mod.
--
Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
www.SirMusicStudio.com
Roger....@verizon.net
Ro...@SirMusicStudio.com
301-585-4681
www.mp3.com/buddywhite
www.mp3.com/thelivewireband
"Spcemusik" <spce...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010223220153...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
Roger W. Norman
perfectly functioning equipment at GC's Towson, MD grand opening for prices
I still couldn't buy the stuff for today, and three years later it's working
great. But it's taken three years to re-establish my working connection
with my regular vendor for product because of that. I'll take the knowledge
and reputation for quality work and quality service and pay the extra fee
without even a blink anymore. Of course, I guess I didn't have to open my
big mouth either! <g>
--
Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
www.SirMusicStudio.com
Roger....@verizon.net
Ro...@SirMusicStudio.com
301-585-4681
www.mp3.com/buddywhite
www.mp3.com/thelivewireband
"Shane A. Bushman" <sbus...@gate.net> wrote in message
news:3A961035...@gate.net...
Shane A. Bushman
concern when purchasing gear that needs to be relied upon. If it were a U-87 I
was purchasing I would not make Guitar Center even part of my potential source
list. For small instrment mics, of which I have a few to choose from, I was
happy to get the Oktavas at GC for the price I did.
While I'm sure this newsgroup did let a lot of people know about these mics, I
read about them in Electronic Musicians small condensor shootout. It states in
the article that the mics were source by Guitar Center, and they dis
exceptionally well in the shootout. I figured I'd give em a listen because they
were so cheap, and now that i own them I use for tons of stuuf. they really do
sound nice.
Anyway, I'll probably get a matched pair of caps from Taylor, and even order a
cherry box (you can buy all these items independently from Sound Room) in the
future...
Shane
Rick Auricchio
> They just go to GC and say "I wanna make a CD of my
>band. I heard that I need a 'cadenza' mic.
All right! Now we're getting somewhere! I knew there was a secret to
getting this stuff right...
--
- rick http://www.cfcl.com/~rick/
Rick Auricchio Acoustic Legacy Studios ri...@cfcl.com
...owner, engineer, solder jockey, caterer, janitor, session bassist.
Everyone has the right to be stupid; some just abuse the privilege.
WillStG
<< But the MC012 really does have a pretty good reputation, and I really think
that
it has come largely from this newsgroup. You don't have to read r.a.p
to learn of that reputation - it has carried well beyond this newsgroup
by now>>
Well, when I first brought up the subject of the Oktava 012's on this
newsgroup quite a while back saying that filmscore guys were carrying a case
full of them around to sessions I did take quite a bit of flak for it here.
Some guys shared bad experiences with the Oktava 012's and somebody we all love
even said they "sounded like hamster dick" or something similar to that (I'll
let ya'll guess who).
Now they seem to have become orthodoxy for a decent yet inexpensive small
diaprahgm condenser, and I think that without the pros here being won over by
mics with better quality control than the off-the-shelf Guitar Center issue
this well might not have happened.
In my estimation Oktava surely owes Taylor Johnson and this newsgroup as
well some credit for the popularity that the 012 now enjoys. So of course this
makes it a perfect time for Oktava distributor McKay to sue Taylor and piss off
everybody here on RAP! Maybe it's a good time now for us to replace the 012
with Harvey's new find the MXL 603's? Mmmm I dunno, gotta try 'em (and the V67)
out first...
Cheers,
Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Harvey Gerst
> In my estimation Oktava surely owes Taylor Johnson and this newsgroup as
>well some credit for the popularity that the 012 now enjoys. So of course this
>makes it a perfect time for Oktava distributor McKay to sue Taylor and piss off
>everybody here on RAP! Maybe it's a good time now for us to replace the 012
>with Harvey's new find the MXL 603's? Mmmm I dunno, gotta try 'em (and the V67)
>out first...
Will,
Sunday night after a session, we had a chance to try the following mics side by
side:
AT 4041 (courtesy of Bob Smith)
Marshall MXL603S
Oktava MC012 w/Cardioid capsule.
We also took a listen to the T.H.E. line from Taylor Johnson:
The 33 mm lollipop mic.
The 25 mm lollipop mic.
The titanium diaphragm small calibration mic.
The very small diaphragm calibration mic.
The binaural recording head.
Bottom line: Not a loser in the batch. More detailed notes tomorrow if I get
some time.
Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio
http://www.ITRstudio.com/
fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk
further. it is certainly not our intention to upset anyone in the newsgroup
here, however, though there has been quite a lot of publicity generated from
the newsgroup, we also have toprotect all of our worldwide customers who
have put a lot of effort into raising the profile of these mics over the
last 6 years. The PR and advertising that have been put into building
awareness of the brand have now led to certain people jumping on the
bandwagon to make a few dollars. This is not ethical or right, and this is
why there are trademark infringement laws and parrallel trading laws, to
protect the people who do the hard work. We have no plans to SUE Mr
Johnson, but we are taking protective and preventative legal measures to
make sure he can not benefit from our work, thereby negatively impacting on
us. We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
to agree, that if malicious rumours are being spread about the quality of
the GENUINE product, by someone who actually has no genuine oktava products
to sell, then we must take action. If this causes upset to the people opn
Rec.audio.pro, then I am afraid they are being naiive
"WillStG" <wil...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010225222715...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
George Perfect
Having recently made some factual positive statements about the quality of
Oktava products sourced through your goodselves I have to say that your
attitude here is even starting to tick me off more than slightly.
I have never met nor had any dealings with him but I believe Mr Johnson has
made the correct position regarding his source of supply, warranties and
sales methods very clear. He has also stated here for the public record that
he has never sought to denigrate your product and has made no negative
comments about your US distributor. Nor does he seem to wish to do so.
Not only have you failed to establish that Mr Jonson or anyone connected
with him has been spreading "malicious rumours" about your company and
products you haven't even proven that such rumours exist at all. This is an
open, public forum in which individuals hold a range of views. Some hold for
Mr Johnson's company, others have happily purchased from your company or its
distributors.
You claim 6 years of advertising and PR. Well, I live in the same country as
your company and I have yet to see an advert for Oktava anywhere outside the
pages of one well known audio dealer. I have yet to see an ad placed by your
company. The MK219, 319 and MC012 were reviewed by SOS years ago with
reasonably favourable results but I have found little, if anything, more
recent. I purchased my Oktava mics after hearing about them here. It took me
quite a while to even find your company and your web site contains very
little useful information (and often crashes). I'd have to say that the
distribution you have achieved here on your doorstep in the UK is less than
widespread (note British understatement).
What on earth do you hope to achieve by perpetuating your argument? If your
aim is to close down Mr Johnson's business I'd have to say you are being
very shortsighted (and setting yourself up for a spectacular example of
self-inflicted foot shooting). If you want to stop him buying Oktava mics
through another channel then I suggest your argument is with the
manufacturer who is *selling* outside your "worldwide exclusive" agreement
with them and not Mr Johnson.
For the life of me I cannot see anything Mr Johnson is doing causing harm to
your activities or those of the Guitar Centre. Others have argued his
positive influence - I cannot comment. However, your own actions here are
having a very clear effect on this particular microphone purchaser - and
from your perspective, that effect is entirely negative.
Now, why can't you all be big boys - shake hands and stop being silly. It
seems to me that the pair of you need to sit down and discuss a couple of
matters to your mutual advantage. If you can't do that in a civil manner
then we, the great unwashed, will form our own views of your behaviour.
I doubt we will conclude that it is we who are being naive.
Kind regards
--
George
Newcastle, England
(please remove leading 'x' from email address to reply directly - thanks)
<fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:97dbif$pvn$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Jim Gilliland
>
> In my estimation Oktava surely owes Taylor Johnson and this newsgroup as
> well some credit for the popularity that the 012 now enjoys. So of course this
> makes it a perfect time for Oktava distributor McKay to sue Taylor and piss off
> everybody here on RAP!
No good deed should go unpunished! <vbg>
Jim Gilliland
>
> Having read your response, we felt it necessary to clear things a bit
> further. it is certainly not our intention to upset anyone in the newsgroup
> here, however, though there has been quite a lot of publicity generated from
> the newsgroup, we also have toprotect all of our worldwide customers who
> have put a lot of effort into raising the profile of these mics over the
> last 6 years. The PR and advertising that have been put into building
> awareness of the brand have now led to certain people jumping on the
> bandwagon to make a few dollars. This is not ethical or right, and this is
> why there are trademark infringement laws and parrallel trading laws, to
> protect the people who do the hard work. We have no plans to SUE Mr
> Johnson, but we are taking protective and preventative legal measures to
> make sure he can not benefit from our work, thereby negatively impacting on
> us. We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
> to agree, that if malicious rumours are being spread about the quality of
> the GENUINE product, by someone who actually has no genuine oktava products
> to sell, then we must take action. If this causes upset to the people opn
> Rec.audio.pro, then I am afraid they are being naiive
Here are my suggestions:
1) Ignore Taylor Johnson and the Sound Room. He has never contributed
to the rumors that you reference. He is doing you far more good than
harm.
2) Promote your own brand. Focus on positive reinforcement rather than
negative. If you believe that industry scuttlebutt about your
microphones is inaccurate, work to improve that impression.
3) Most important - fix the widely held perception that Guitar Center's
supply of Octava mics is inconsistent in quality. Since this impression
comes mostly from the experience of real customers who have real
microphones purchased in real Guitar Center stores, the best way to
correct the perception would be to engage in appropriate quality control
over the mics that are delivered to your US retail outlet.
The internet can be your friend or your enemy. Product perception
carries farther and faster today than ever before. If people have
generally good experiences with Octava microphones purchased at Guitar
Center, that perception will spread. But it will take time and work on
your part to make sure that impression improves. Blaming Taylor Johnson
for the problem just makes you look bad and doesn't get you any closer
to solving the real problem.
Ty Ford
<ri...@apple.com> wrote:
>In article <znr982964387k@trad>, mri...@d-and-d.com wrote:
>
>> They just go to GC and say "I wanna make a CD of my
>>band. I heard that I need a 'cadenza' mic.
>
>All right! Now we're getting somewhere! I knew there was a secret to
>getting this stuff right...
For some reason I didn't see my previous post on this topic, so I'm
resending it. Please ignore it if by some chance it got to you the first time.
--------------------------++++++++-----------------------
Know what? Anyone who puts their faith in a company with products that vary
so greatly from piece to piece is playing Russian Roulette with their
project and their professional reputation.
If they were made right and QC'd properly in the first place, we all would
have been saved from this extremely over-tired topic.
We don't want mics or other gear that "sort of works" depending on which one
you happen to end up with. Make 'em work or turn out the light and close the
door. Or start OEMing for a consumer label where quality doesn't matter as much.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Ty Ford's audio equipment reviews and V/O sound files can be accessed at
http://www.jagunet.com/~tford
WillStG
>, though there has been quite a lot of publicity generated from
>the newsgroup, we also have toprotect all of our worldwide customers who have
put a lot of effort into raising the profile of these mics over the
last 6 years.<
Are you aware that many of the guys who write the reviews that have been
"raising the profile of these mics" are regulars on this newsgroup (or their
collegues)?
> The PR and advertising that have been put into building awareness of the
brand have now led to certain people jumping on the bandwagon to make a few
dollars. This is not ethical or right, and this is why there are trademark
infringement laws and parrallel trading laws, to
protect the people who do the hard work.<
Sure. But if on the other hand you slap around guys who have actually been
_helping_ you, you just look greedy and out of touch.
>We have no plans to SUE Mr. Johnson, but we are taking protective and
preventative legal measures to make sure he can not benefit from our work,
thereby negatively impacting on us.<
If you were smart you'd make friends with Taylor and cut him a deal. If
you've been following along by now you might realize, "Pro Audio" guys
appreciate his "value added service". This is something Guitar Center cannot,
and will never be able to provide.
Regards,
Greg Heimbecker
Scott Dorsey
<fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>Having read your response, we felt it necessary to clear things a bit
>further. it is certainly not our intention to upset anyone in the newsgroup
>here, however, though there has been quite a lot of publicity generated from
>the newsgroup, we also have toprotect all of our worldwide customers who
>have put a lot of effort into raising the profile of these mics over the
>last 6 years. The PR and advertising that have been put into building
>awareness of the brand have now led to certain people jumping on the
>bandwagon to make a few dollars.
Pardon me?
I have not, in the past decade, seen a single advertisement in this country
which you have placed. I have seen a few advertisements for the Oktava
mikes which were placed in broadcast magazined by Harris/Allied, but I have
not seen a single advertisement either from you or from Guitar Center. So
I question your statement here.
This is not ethical or right, and this is
>why there are trademark infringement laws and parrallel trading laws, to
>protect the people who do the hard work. We have no plans to SUE Mr
>Johnson, but we are taking protective and preventative legal measures to
>make sure he can not benefit from our work, thereby negatively impacting on
>us. We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
>to agree, that if malicious rumours are being spread about the quality of
>the GENUINE product, by someone who actually has no genuine oktava products
>to sell, then we must take action. If this causes upset to the people opn
>Rec.audio.pro, then I am afraid they are being naiive
I don't think you understand. Mr. Johnson's marketing is benefitting you.
He is getting the brand-name to be seen out there. You are not.
He is also not spreading rumours about the quality of your product. I am.
You should stop accusing him of doing so, and start accusing your customers.
JnyVee.
In what has become standard corporate newspeak, using fascinating
phraseology to diguise purposely misleading rhetoric, I find a
disturbing lack of forthrightness in your latest message. You claim that
something needs to be cleared up, then reittereate exactly what you
conveyed quite clearly in your last message while not only ignoring the
advice and market information given to you in response to that message
as factual experience bearing directly on your product and distribution
and service lines, but proceed in insulting and denigrating the
addressees who consist of award-winning professional writers, reviewers,
recording and mastering engineers who are directly in line as both
customers and advisors to customers, in print and as consultants, of
your select target market audience.
You mention some sort of fear of an infringement and a need "... to
protect all of our worldwide customers who have put a lot of effort into
raising the profile of these mics over the last 6 years". I would
suggest you take a hard look at whatever you've been told this 6-year
agressive publicity campaign IS, that was so financially burdening, as I
dont think anyone has SEEN such a thing. Somebody has been apparently
been taking your money and driving it on the autobahn rather than
promoting Oktava mics as I haven;t seen them mentioned ANYWHERE except
in reviews appearing long after I, and presumably the reviewer, found
them through references from here to the work of Mr Johnson. Maybe you
should give HIM a budget, he's provided you with more visibility with no
ad budget from you than whatever your hired agency has done with your
missing moneys. You should follow this 'missing ad caompaign' thing up,
it's usually grounds for legal recompense. While you're tracking down
whatever became of your requested publicity, you might channel any
future such moneys in a direction with a proven track record.
Again referring to your imagined ad campaign, "...The PR and advertising
that have been put into building awareness of the brand have now led to
certain people jumping on the bandwagon to make a few dollars." Since
you're obviously referring to Mr.Johnson here as 'jumping on the
bandwagon' I'm puzzled, since not only does nobody see a bandwagon to be
ON, Mr.Johnson's activities certainly predate any appearance of Oktava
in any stores I've found them in subsequent to his added-value work on
the line, and a fine case could be made for the reputation HE made for
the product -for you- being the reason others would search out the mics.
Considering there have been consistant and serious QC issues with what
hits your chosen outlets, your coment that "... this is why there are
trademark infringement laws and parrallel trading laws, to protect the
people who do the hard work" is absurd, ludicrous and completely
self-depricating as the last step of this 'hard work' seems indeed to be
the one you decided was not important enough to bother with, and left to
someone else. I buy groceries at a premium at a certain store since they
indeed go to the extra trouble to cull out less-than exemplary produce
so I don;t have to. I could indeed go to other less-expensive stores and
take the time to go through the lots myself but I choose to pay someone
to do that for me. I would certianly think it odd if the growers
attacked the premium store because they wanted, for some inexplicable
reason, to only see thier inadequate product on the shelves... for if
they did this i would cease to buy their unreliable effluvium at all and
be sure to reccommend them out.
You claim that you are "...taking protective and preventative legal
measures to make sure (Mr.Johnson) can not benefit from our work,
thereby negatively impacting on us" assumes oddly that Mr'Johnson is
indeed benefitting from your work, when he quite clearly is benefitting
from work you FAIL to do.
This is a fascinating business approach; Distributing a manufacturer's
substandard assemblies and then agressively legally attacking anyone who
attempts to take the same line and make sure only the better ones see
market and thereby improving the reputation of the brand. Fascinating.
I;d say this approach as clearly delineated by yourself here helps me
immeasurably in saving time and trouble in deciding whether or not to by
a product if it comes through the McKay distribution chain in whatever
guise you may take on in future.
John Vengrouskie
Soundscenes
fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
>
> Having read your response, we felt it necessary to clear things a bit
> further. it is certainly not our intention to upset anyone in the newsgroup
> here, however, though there has been quite a lot of publicity generated from
> the newsgroup, we also have to protect all of our worldwide customers who
> have put a lot of effort into raising the profile of these mics over the
> last 6 years. The PR and advertising that have been put into building
> awareness of the brand have now led to certain people jumping on the
> bandwagon to make a few dollars. This is not ethical or right, and this is
> why there are trademark infringement laws and parrallel trading laws, to
> protect the people who do the hard work. We have no plans to SUE Mr
> Johnson, but we are We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
JnyVee.
concerned with several statements.
"...it is certainly not our intention to upset anyone in the newsgroup
here, however, though there has been quite a lot of publicity generated
from the newsgroup, we also have to protect all of our worldwide
customers who have put a lot of effort into raising the profile of these
mics over the last 6 years."
and
"We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
to agree, that if malicious rumours are being spread about the quality
of the GENUINE product, by someone who actually has no genuine oktava
products to sell, then we must take action. If this causes upset to the
people on Rec.audio.pro, then I am afraid they are being naiive"
Since your incomprehensible opposition to Mr.Johnson's activities in
improving the reliability and quality of the Oktava product seem to be
centered around publicity conflicts that you contrue as adverse to the
Oktava name, I find it disturbing that I can only interpret these
announcements, in light of your announcement and logic towards
Mr.Johnson, as threats to the newsgroup and an attempt to stifle free
discussion and conversation.
As an open public forum I think this entire discussion may be of
considerable interest to a wider audience.
jv
Mark Plancke
>He is also not spreading rumours about the quality of your product. I am.
But Scott, they aren't rumors. It's not like you're making this stuff
up.
Mark Plancke
SOUNDTECH RECORDING STUDIOS
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
http://SoundTechRecording.com
Now accepting submissions/suggestions for the soon to be updated
FAQ/miniFAQ, please email to F...@SoundtechRecording.com.
An HTML version of the current FAQ can be found at
http://soundtechrecording.com/rapfaq
John Deacon
they are fact,
1. every oktava mic at guitar center is of variable quality
2. Guitar center employees do not have the knowledge to counteract this
3. Guitar center knowingly puts bad Oktava microphones back in stock
4. Guitar center claim Oktava is the reason for their lack of product, i
was told by larry at GC in austin this, it is a fact and i will state this
in any court, anywhere
5. The only way to be assured of good working microphones, (apart from
testing them on GC's counter, is to buy em from taylor
6. Board quality in the Oktavas is marginal at best.....
I am not stating this lightly, i am the senior hardware engineer for a
prominent austin company, i work on multi-million dollar hardware design
projects, i have done this for 20 years,,,
Oktava, be careful or you will drive off the people who use and review
your products, i am happy with the mics i eventually got from GC, i
still do not have the capsules advertised by GC, they claim its an octava
problem, i dont care, i paid for something, now im not gonna get it,,,,,
(oh scott on the nominal phantom voltage, i was talking from voltage
smeasured from specific consoles, i know aes has a 1 volt tolerance, its
just a shame not all manufacturers stick to this)
john
On 26 Feb 2001, Scott
Nate Tschetter
Some people have had bad experiences with the ones they purchased at GC.
The reason being, GC sells mics that are defective more often than is
considered acceptable. As the saying goes, "you only have one chance to
make a first impression". Wouldn't your time and effort be better spent
on making that first impression better?
Before I started reading RAP a couple of year ago, I had never even
HEARD of Oktava microphones. To this day, I still don't see any ads for
Oktava in the usual publications. True, the local GC carries them but
they have that "no return policy" due to "health reasons".
What I really don't understand is why you keep posting about "protective
and preventative legal measures" when The Sound Room only sells through
"10 or so per month".
Why is it so difficult for you to work WITH Mr. Johnson?
--
"I have to know something before I know something."
Nate (Doraemon) Tschetter
Sonic Taxidermist
www.gluethemoose.com
hank alrich
> We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
> to agree, that if malicious rumours are being spread about the quality of
> the GENUINE product, by someone who actually has no genuine oktava products
> to sell, then we must take action. If this causes upset to the people opn
> Rec.audio.pro, then I am afraid they are being naiive
You have made available mics under the Oktava name with, shall we say
kindly, a slightly random aspect to their quality. Mr. Johnson has made
available mics that match a higher standard of consistency in the QC
arena. In this forum most serious users would not have bothered to seek
out your own presentation for review, while Mr. Johnson's efforts have
brought to the attention of the newsgroup the likelihood that some of
those mics are usable. If you can't understand this then I think we can
safely relocate the burden of naiveté.
hank alrich
> i
> still do not have the capsules advertised by GC, they claim its an octava
> problem, i dont care, i paid for something, now im not gonna get it
Bullshit, John. Stay in their face until they deliver what they
advertised or start mumbling about attorneys, fraud, etc., and see if
they start to get a clue that false advertising is a crime, that robbery
is not legal, even by corporatwe pricks hiding behind obfuscatory
smokescreens.
JnyVee.
standing on top of the cash register checkout counter with multiple
copies of a detailed typewritten account of your problem for handing out
to each customer at doors-open 10am demanding vociferously that you get
satisfaction. Never be rude. Never raise your voice. Are all GC's
alike... ours has a message-on-hold voice that does sales schpiel that
rotates the phrase "ABSOLUTE SAITSFACTION" and a description thereof
into the copy every 45 sec or so that absolutely would obviate your
entire problem. Have a copy of that too. Have a friend standing by with
a camera.
--
and as Mike Rivers once said:
"...smart people neither take out their own tonsils
nor pre-master their own projects."
--
John Deacon
money than the capsules are worth,
I knew i shoulda bought the neumanns from fletcher..........
john
Geoff Wood
geoff
"John Deacon" <jo...@sig.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.01022...@roadrunner.sig.net...
Garthrr
>We have no plans to SUE Mr
>Johnson, but we are taking protective and preventative legal measures to
>make sure he can not benefit from our work, thereby negatively impacting on
>us. We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
>to agree, that if malicious rumours are being spread about the quality of
>the GENUINE product, by someone who actually has no genuine oktava products
>to sell, then we must take action.
I came in late on this thread and am astonished to read that apparently someone
from Oktava has written the above. I would just like to say that if it weren't
for Taylor Johnson I would almost certainly have never purchased an Oktava mic.
I had read a few unenthusiastic reviews of Oktava mics in the past and it was
only through the knowledgable and helpful people here on R.A.P that I became
convinced the mics were worth looking into.
IMO, it would behoove Oktava to cultivate a relationship with Mr. Johnson and
would be a serious mistake not to.
Garth Webber
"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney
Luke Kaven
USA. I've never seen an advertisement. Also you are persisting in blaming
Taylor for propagating a rumour that, in fact, WE are responsible for
propagating. And we don't mind getting a correction on our information.
But you should consider that when you poison your relationship with us, you
are poisoning the well that you drink from. WE the many are, after all, the
ones who made your mikes popular here -- by word of mouth. The New York
Times reporter certainly seemed to understand that.
You could get everything you want without destroying your relationship with
your public, if you only would decide to get off of your legalistic stance,
shake a few hands, and talk to us like adults. The announcement on your
website leaves me feeling icy-cold. This is not an organization that I'd
like to deal with in the future unless it can put on a human face.
[Maybe first you could fix the MC012 I bought through Harris that was
shorted out of the box. I can hear the wire rattling around in there.
Harris didn't want anything more to do with it. So much for your support.]
<fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:97dbif$pvn$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Scott Dorsey
>
>[Maybe first you could fix the MC012 I bought through Harris that was
>shorted out of the box. I can hear the wire rattling around in there.
>Harris didn't want anything more to do with it. So much for your support.]
Send it over. I know exactly which joint they didn't do right. It's an easy
fix. I have fixed several mikes with bad joints on the wire from the
capsule stator and I inadvertently made a bad joint on one of them myself
too. It's easy to do. 15 minute repair.
Dean Richard
Taylor Johnson (and the members of this newsgroup) have done so much to improve
the image of Oktava mics that you should be cutting him a commission check
every month.
Dean
In article <97dbif$pvn$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk says...
hank alrich
> Luke Kaven <ka...@rci.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> >[Maybe first you could fix the MC012 I bought through Harris that was
> >shorted out of the box. I can hear the wire rattling around in there.
> >Harris didn't want anything more to do with it. So much for your support.]
> Send it over. I know exactly which joint they didn't do right. It's an easy
> fix. I have fixed several mikes with bad joints on the wire from the
> capsule stator and I inadvertently made a bad joint on one of them myself
> too. It's easy to do. 15 minute repair.
That's no way to treat a joint.
Chris G.
Geeez! I've never seen an Oktava mic add add myself and didn't even know
for a long time that Mckay was the prime distributor of Oktava mics. Sir,
with all due respect, the Sound Room and this newsgroup has done way more to
help your own business. That fact is that most newbies end up buying the
Oktava mics at GC or someone else that gets the Oktava mics from your
company because they don't have the money to get the Sound Room mics (or
don't know about them). However they know from all the pros who have bought
the Sound Room Oktavas that these mics are good ones, and that with a little
mic comparing and selecting, they can usually find a perfectly decent Oktava
mic at Guitar Center. However, like with many mic manufacturers, QC is an
issue, and you'll always get some lemons and sometimes those people will be
very pissed and will post a very negative review of the Oktava mics based on
their one experience with their lemon. LIVE WITH IT!!! This happens with
almost any product that is talked about on the internet. Your threat to
take actions against people who post such negative reviews of the Oktavas
that you distribute is I think a VERY bad move. I quote:
"We have until now taken a lenient attitude, but I think you will have
to agree, that if malicious rumours are being spread about the quality of
the GENUINE product, by someone who actually has no genuine oktava products
to sell, then we must take action."
There are no evil conspiracies against McKay just a few people dissatisfied
with an item they bought which your company happens to distribute. They may
have in fact experienced poor performance from a batch of mics that may have
not been up to par, or perhaps the mic preamps, headphones, monitors, ect...
that they compared the mics on had problems. Who knows. My point is that
everyone has opinions on these mics and they are just that...opinions. In
this thread alone there have many several positive reviews of Oktava mics
bought at GC just to show my point. I encourage you sir to follow the lead
that Marshall Electronics has taken. They also have been faced with
allegations of poor quality control, however Brent Casey has very politely
defended his company's products and his work as have many others who really
like their mics such as myself and others on this newsgroup and other audio
newsgroups. In addition with any mics with serious problems, he takes
care of those problems personally. Because of that excellent service they
have shown me and many others, I think that they are beginning to get a very
good reputation despite some growing pains.
If you want to stop all the "rumors" of crappy Mckay Oktava mics, I would
recommend that you work closely with Oktava in order to improve quality
control and production techniques. If you are already doing that, then
please keep us up to date on what you are doing to help insure good quality
control. (My apologies if you already gave that information as I did not
catch your original post). Making threats is only going to further isolate
your company from those who buy the product you distribute. Oh...in
addition your timing is very poor. Guess what is going to happen if you
manage to shut down The Sound Room? I guarantee you that people will start
buying the Marshall mics which are less expensive, and with some models
possibly even better sounding. I personally don't want to see Oktava and
RTT hurt too badly in the market place because from my conversations with
one of the RTT reps, they really seem like good people who are passionate
about microphones and who are trying to do their best. They also make some
good mics. At any rate unless you're already doing distribution for
Marshall mics, you're going to hurt your own business if you manage to shut
down the Sound Room. Even if that happened I would probably still be able
to get ahold of some choice Oktava mics direct from Russia.
So in a nutshell listen to Mr. Perfect's excellent advice, and don't shoot
the Goose with the Golden egg. Just address any problems people have with
the GC Oktava mics as best you can and keep working to insure that wide
variances in the mics are kept to a minimum. From the amount of people
here on rec.audio.pro alone who have bought McKay distrubted Oktava mics
based on reviews from people who bought the Sound Room Oktavas, I think it's
a no-brainer that the Sound Room is good for your business. If you screw
them you're only screwing yourself.
Chris G.
<fa...@fandg.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:97dbif$pvn$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Geoff Wood
they happy with their product, or trying to do something about it ?
geoff
"ScotFraser" <scotf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010227123304...@ng-ca1.aol.com...
> <<>We have no plans to SUE Mr
> >Johnson, but we are taking protective and preventative legal measures to
> >make sure he can not benefit from our work, thereby negatively impacting
on
> >us.>>
>
> Astonishing, especially when you consider that Oktava's reputation was in
the
> crapper until Mr. Johnson took the time to do the quality control that
Oktava
> wasn't willing to do for themselves. Just who is benefitting from whose
work?
>
>
> Scott Fraser
YBStudios
point, he's probably assuming he can sell more mics through that platform than
someone like the Sound Room.
Unfortunately for some of us, the point is probably a sound (sorry) one. Mass
distribution requires dealerships. It's still a numbers game. GC may be
pulling his chain on allowing competition also.
Mr. McKay isn't seeing any dollar difference from his view. GC or gray market,
he still makes the same thing. Only variable is tonnage!!!
Maybe we should just let Octava, Mr. Mckay and GC go away. At the current
pace, it seems it may happen soon anyway. Small margins require volume. All
of us are familar with that business equation.
Wayne@Yellow Booth Studios
Montgomery, AL
"Don't threaten to fire me! Remember, I came in here looking for a job"
hank alrich
> > That's no way to treat a joint.
> Well... if I'm alone, it could take me up to two or more days to finish one.
Obviously, you need a fully qualified assistant.
Taylor Johnson
> > >Johnson, but we are taking protective and preventative legal measures to
> > >make sure he can not benefit from our work, thereby negatively impacting
> on
> > >us.>>
In point of fact, Fergus McKay wrote me a personal note
within 24 hours after posting THE ABOVE statement to say:
"Dear Mr Johnson,
I am writing to inform you of the legal procedings we are
currently instigating, after repeated warnings, to curtail
your activities relating to Oktava microphones.
It has been over a year since you spoke personally to Mr
Gennady Ulyanov while he was in the UK offices of A & F
McKay Audio limited, and he asked you to desist from your
advertising of the products that you unlawfully and
incorrectly claim to have bought directly from oktava.
....(To which I replied to the interpreter..."Yes sir,
I understand what you are saying")....TJ
In that year you have continued to maintain on your internet
site that you have close links with the factory, and have to
our certain knowledge libelled the genuine product sold
through ourselves and Guitar Center (the only recognised
importer of Oktava product in the USA)
.....(The above statement means that they have
indisputable PROOF that I, personally, have maligned the
product or products sold at "GC" - despite public
disclaimers on my site)...TJ
You may wish to be made aware of the following facts, which
will be further explained in the solicitors letter you will
recieve in the next fortnight:
1. The microphones you sell are stolen goods. The factory
are aware that a number of microphones are being stolen on a
monthly basis and sold within Russia. Russian customs (as
I'm sure you can imagine) are not very lenient on the export
of stolen goods.
.....(Even though I have receipts for these goods and
have never been to Russia - Fergus will try to prosecute on
this....good luck ----um those of you who have bought these
microphones with no serial numbers (well, most have no
serial numbers) from me , please hurry and return them to
Fergus, I'm sure he would like to use them as
"eveidence")...TJ
2. The microphones you sell are not as far as we know UL ,
MET, or CE approved, due to the fact that they are not
legally exported, and that they are tampered with and
altered before sale by a non approved testing/repair house.
The certificates needed to legally sell these mics are all
lodged with us. The fact that these microphones are not
sold "complete" further negates your rights to claim
associations with Oktava, who are not, and never have been
made aware of the changes you make to the mics, nor are they
therefore able to approve these alterations.
3. We DO have the legally registered trademarks for Oktava,
and are protected by numerous laws,
Due to the fact that we have, and can be shown to have
advertised, marketed and sold the range for 7 years and have
seven years of contracts for exclusive sale of Oktava
microphones, we would be in a very strong legal position
with regard to stopping you from trading even if we had not
registered the trademark.
4. You continue to use our copyrighted material on your
website to advertise products that you are not entitled to
sell. This obviously exposes you further to legal action.
.....(In truth...the factory site uses photos from my
site, evr wonder why the factory uses photos of the
Sabra-Som shock mount?)....TJ
5. The microphones you sell are not covered by Oktava
warantees or guarantees, and we have had some microphones
(see attached pic) returned to us for repair. This impacts
directly upon our business and upon our relationship with
Oktava, as they will not accept returns in this state.
....(Guys...I repair any Oktava that someone would like
to ship here...I know that providing this service is totally
beneath you...therefore my advice is to not bring this
up...Just say NO to the client and it WON'T impact your
business or your relationship with Oktava.....duh..)....TJ
We have tried to be lenient to you and to avoid having to
take a heavy hand, but unfortunately you have persisted in
trying to disrupt our legal business, and we are sadly
forced to take action in order to protect our distributors.
.....(Gee, I must be having a HUGE impact on the Guitar
Center who are, if I am not mistaken, once more "dumping"
the Oktava product at incredibly low prices (remember they
have "thousands" in-stock).....go on out and get as many as
you can carry everyone...you hear? I mean if my sales of
"limited numbers" of RTT product that we re-measure,
re-test, re-package, re-name and cover with our own
warranties after purchasing legitimately truly hurts the
McKays..I can't believe it....and getting these mics into
the hands of experienced (yes, even professional)
recordists?????).wow...this is truly awful...TJ
........Well...I can only say that I hope Mr. McKay
reads all of the posts that this thread has generated just
on THIS newsgroup....He might figure out that I don't have
to say ANYTHING about the Guitar Center Microphoes except
the truth...Our RTT mics have a different QC, different
testing, different packaging and different warranties.....TJ
....... You guys (R.A.P.) have said the rest and have
been quite colorful to boot! Really...let's move ON! I sell
148 products and also my own NEW line of microphones is just
starting to ship. Let's all get busy with supporting modern
musicians, engineers and recordists and not bother splitting
hairs. If I felt I was actually hurting the factory's
reputation I would stop selling RTT product in a minute, but
I think that more of these products are now in competent
hands and that somehow the McKay company MUST be reaping a
small windfall from MY efforts - you are welcome to any and
all success, you have worked hard to deserve it and I wish
you well. Besides, Fergus, didn't your father tell you he
would not support (pay for) any more of your "flippant"
legal actions that you are so fond of threatening?...TJ
Taylor Johnson
Owner
The Sound Room
JnyVee
Russian factory was hoping to sell mics rather than watch their
'distributor' throw the baby into the bay.
What else does MacKay distribute, what are these 'frivolous lawsuits'
and why is MacKay's dad shaking a finger at him? Who owns this tub?
jv
> site, ever wonder why the factory uses photos of the
JnyVee
likely because it's been completely unneccessary. Their reputation is
hardly an industry secret.
the following pulled from
http://csf.colorado.edu/pen-l/2000III/msg02809.html
Retrofitting Soviet Tech
(Re: Japan failing to imitate...)
by Yoshie Furuhashi
10 September 2000 21:45 UTC
>[full article at http://www.latimes.com/business/20000910/t000085112.html ]
>
>Sunday, September 10, 2000
>Japan Giving Its Start-Ups a U.S. Education, With Limited Success
>Asia: It is sending fledgling firms to American incubators to learn
>entrepreneurial ways. But applicant pool is thin, and cultural barriers may
>be culprit.
>
>By EVELYN IRITANI, Times Staff Writer
> An innovative experiment by the Japanese government to unlock the secret
>of America's entrepreneurial energies has gotten off to a rocky start.
> By placing a handful of their most promising high-tech start-ups in
>American business incubators for several years of intensive parenting, the
>Japanese hoped to pick up some tips on high-tech nurturing and, with luck,
>grow the world's next technology giant-killer.
Were I loaded with capital & entrepreneurial ambition, I'd scavenge
the graveyard of ex-Eastern bloc technologies & find a lot of
marketable stuff -- cheap, not-so-hi-tech, & retro-chic. Appealing
to those of us who are tired of accelerated pace of planned
obsolescence. Very postmodern.
***** The New York Times
September 9, 2000, Saturday, Late Edition - Final
SECTION: Section C; Page 1; Column 2; Business/Financial Desk
HEADLINE: Stalinesque Lines, But a Silky Sound;
Man, That's One Ugly Microphone
BYLINE: By SABRINA TAVERNISE
DATELINE: TULA, Russia
A small Soviet-era factory called Oktava has a well-known fan: the
musician Sting. The reason? Its microphones.
The company, based in this small city three hours south of Moscow,
was focused primarily on weapons production in Soviet times. But
since the 1950's, when Moscow ordered mass production for everything
from recording studios to telecommunications equipment, it has been
making microphones that have lately found an unlikely global success.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the company has compensated
for the lack of state purchases with unusual buyers: American and
British rock musicians. Since it began exporting in 1994, revenues
have more than doubled, mainly through the sale of the microphones,
which musicians say are cheap, high-quality and some of the ugliest
they've ever seen.
"We nicknamed it the electric razor," said Hugh Padgham, a
London-based recording engineer who has done albums for Sting and the
Police and bought an older version of the microphones about 10 years
ago. "Because it's so cheap and badly made, you're always slightly
suspicious why it should sound so good."
As creaky, Soviet-era enterprises struggle to shed outdated equipment
and oversized work forces, Oktava is thriving. It is a rarity among
Russian consumer goods companies, whose products normally cannot
compete internationally because of poor quality. But Oktava has
turned superb engineering from half a century ago into profits today.
"Tula is best known for its spice cookies, guns, and samovars," said
Gennady I. Ulyanov, Oktava's general director. "And now for its
microphones," he added with a grin.
The company is unusual because it has capitalized on its Soviet-era
expertise in a competitive industry. Stepping into the factory is
like going back in time. Receptionists answer clunky telephones that
look much like the display models in the company museum. An exhibit
titled "The First Stakhanovites" proudly displays the factory's first
labor heroes. (Stakhanov was the name of a productive miner, whom the
government held up as an heroic example in a publicity stunt in the
1930's.)
Displayed along another wall is a light pink radio the factory made
for Stalin on his 70th birthday. Company management has remained
virtually unchanged since the early 1990's.
"Nothing in particular has changed," said Mr. Ulyanov, a pleasant man
with a brilliant row of gold teeth, who was a Communist Party member
for years and who began in the plant in 1963 as a lathe operator.
It was in exactly this state that two British brothers, who would
later become Oktava's exclusive distributors, found the company in
1993. Fergus McKay and his brother, Andy, both studying to be sound
engineers, came across an Oktava microphone in their college
recording studio. They asked their father, who ran a food import
company in Moscow, to track down the factory. He returned to England
with a box full of them. But before the brothers could return for
more, the model was discontinued. They contacted the factory,
persuaded it to resume production, and signed a contract.
"It was a Russian product -- something no one had ever seen before,"
said Fergus McKay, of A & F McKay Audio Ltd. "The interest was
enormous."
Even the name of the microphone sounded threatening -- the MK 219.
Reviewers praised its sound quality but were astounded at the lack of
attention to its appearance. In 1994, when the microphones were
released, one trade magazine wrote, "extremely nice sounding mic, not
likely to get stolen," while another wrote that it looked as though
it had been "cast from an Aeroflot tea trolley." Its homeliness, in
fact, became one of its main selling points, Fergus McKay said.
Now the microphones are known throughout the world. Musicians and
sound engineers were lured first by the price -- Mr. Padgham paid
about $140 for his microphones when a comparable one made by Neuman
of Germany cost about $1,700 -- and later by the appearance. Sales at
the McKays jumped from 20 microphones a month in 1994 to about 2,000
now. Oktava's annual revenue has doubled to 500 million rubles ($18
million) since it began exporting. The quality, however, can be
spotty and does not compare with the more expensive German
microphones. The Russian mikes are bought mainly by younger and
semi-professional musicians who are starting recording studios at
home.
"The thing that kept me from wanting to buy them as a consumer is the
variability from unit to unit," said Steven Albini, a freelance
recording engineer based in Chicago who has used other Russian
microphones for about 10 years. "But if I was just starting out, I'd
be buying handfuls of them."
Mr. Albini prefers the older Russian microphones because they were
built mostly with vacuum tubes instead of transistors. As a result,
they produce a warmer, better recorded sound. Russia kept that
technology for years after American producers abandoned it. He
frequently uses microphones made in the 1950's by the St.
Petersburg-based company LOMO, and has recorded albums for P J
Harvey, Nirvana, Robert Plant and Jimmy Page with them. Oktava plans
to re-release an old-style microphone by the end of the year.
Russian-made products are inexpensive, in part because labor and
local materials cost far less than in Western markets. Most of the
components Oktava uses are domestically produced. The average salary
at the plant is about 1,300 rubles, or about $50 a month. Though the
factory is still sprawling, with a work force of about 2,000, that is
down from 5,000 just after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Still, the success of its microphones abroad has not erased all
financial difficulties at home. The company is paying off the tax
debt it racked up in the early 1990's, before it found new buyers.
Without any bank loans or outside investors it often runs short of
capital to expand.
Despite his long history as a plant worker, Mr. Ulyanov, 59, has
adapted to management well. The company opened a marketing department
in the early 1990's to compete better domestically. It has also
bought new equipment. It now exports about 30 percent of what it
produces, up from 6 percent just after the Soviet collapse.
The government owns about 60 percent of the company, while private
shareholders, mostly workers, own the rest, said Mr. Ulyanov, who
himself owns 1 percent. It was founded in 1927, and produced mostly
radios and loudspeakers until the 1950's.
Russian musicians most often find Oktava when flipping through glossy
Western music magazines, Mr. Ulyanov said. "Made in Russia" has meant
poor quality for so long that most seek imported goods when they want
high technology.
"They call us and say, 'It can't be you -- here, in Russia, in Tula?'
" he said.
GRAPHIC: Photo: Gennady I. Ulyanov, Oktava's general director, with
one of the company's much-sought-after microphones. The sound may be
great, but the mike looks like something that Edward R. Murrow might
have been clutching during the Battle of Britain. (James Hill for The
New York Times) *****
And check out http://www.lomo.com/.
Yoshie