Arrows on Monster Cable?
Zeppelin4Life
the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
Dave
Mondoslug1
andrewunix
: ive been using monster cable for years with no problems...today i discovered
: the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
: other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
Mostly marketing. They've probably designed it in such a way that the
"performance" is measurably, but still inconsequentially, "better" when
current travels in one direction than in the other. This makes the cable
seem technologically superior to the consumer, and the consumer is willing
to pay more for it.
--
agreenbu @ nyx . net andrew michael greenburg
Rob Reedijk
Hang it with the arrow pointing down for a while. This allows the electrons
to disperse. Then, once you start using it again, make sure to turn it
around every six months. Much like a mattress.
Rob R.
Laurence Payne
Listen real hard. SURE there's no difference?
CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles
I recommend that you use groups.google.com, and search not THIS NG, but
rather comp.dsp.
Look for posts including the words "Monster Cable" written by Jerry
Avins.
Mr. Avins has FORGOTTEN more about analog and digital signal processing
for mission critical applications than most of will ever know.
He has studied this issue extensively and has the data to back up his
opinions.
Jay Kadis
"Zeppelin4Life" <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Since audio is AC, it's going to be going backwards about half the time no
matter how you deploy the cable.
-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x
MM
electrons
> to disperse. Then, once you start using it again, make sure to turn it
> around every six months. Much like a mattress.
>
> Rob R.
Since the music signal is not always symmetrical, electrons tend to
accumulate more in one of the wires, so much like with rotating tires
remember to not only swap front to rear but also left to right. I am sure
every reputable cable maker such as Monster should have rotating patterns
and the cable maintenance schedule on their website somewhere.
/Mikhail
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Jay Kadis" <j...@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message ...
> Since audio is AC, it's going to be going backwards about half the time no
> matter how you deploy the cable.
>
> -Jay
We have a winner.
DM
David Morgan (MAMS)
--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles
<ma...@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:
> 97.9% pure Snake Oil
>
>
The best thing you can do for OTHER peoples opinion of your sound is to
boost the tag from a roll of Monster Cable and hang it from the cables
you actually use.
Much like a sign SAYING there's an alarm being an effective deterrent
to crime whether or not there's an actual alarm in the building.
Laurence Payne
>They've probably designed it in such a way that the
>"performance" is measurably, but still inconsequentially, "better" when
>current travels in one direction than in the other.
Any suggestions how?
David Morgan (MAMS)
"U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles" <"Charles Krug"@cdksystems.com> wrote in message news:Ci%Cc.1500$Av3....@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
And be laughed at by my peers? ;-)
I did leave 2.1% as a margin of error. My experience doesn't give it
much more credibility than that... note: EXPERIENCE, not hearsay.
It certainly does not live up to it's price category. As pricing goes, it's
a *massive* ripoff.
--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Chris Hornbeck
<Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
It's not about signal flow; instead it's about which end of the
cable has the shield connected.
Whether you want the sheild connected to the low impedance
source end or the high impedance receiving end of things
depends on whether electric or magnetic fields dominate.
IOW, who knows?
Chris Hornbeck
Zeppelin4Life
1/8"(RCA), so flipping them isnt an option
Dave
"MM" <mb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2k3chvF...@uni-berlin.de...
Zeppelin4Life
Will I notice a difference if I hook up my cables in the wrong direction?
You probably will not, but if you think that you are experiencing noise
problems, check that they are. Cables are directional for shielding purposes
only. Should you not see these arrows, remember that the signal flow should
go in the same direction of the print on the cable jacket, reading left to
right away from the source (source to destination)
Why does my instrument cable have arrows?
There are two typical types of cable construction; coaxial and twisted pair.
Coaxial construction, as used in our P500 Rock cable, consists of one
conductor and the shield. Twisted Pair construction, used in our P500 Jazz
and all Studiolink cables, utilizes two conductors and a shield. Connectors
such as the RCA type and mono ź" are considered Unbalanced connectors; due
to their two contact surface areas, the tip and the sleeve. (Connectors such
as XLR, TRS ź" (Tip/Ring/Sleeve,) etc. are considered Balanced.) A coaxial
cable terminated with an unbalanced connector, uses the conductor as the
positive lead, terminated to the Tip, and the shield as the negative lead,
terminated to sleeve. Monster Cable makes our Unbalanced cables,
"Semi-balanced" by utilizing twisted pair cable. We use one conductor as the
positive lead, terminated to the Tip, one conductor as the negative lead,
terminated to the sleeve, and we terminate the shield to the Source side of
the cable; thereby making the cable directional. The theory goes, if you
ground the shield at the Source end and leave it open to "Drain" at the
Destination end, any noise or interference which enters the shield, will be
kept from making its way into your destination device. Source is considered
where the signal is originating from, (think it terms of your signal flow,)
Destination is considered the device to which your signal is going.
"Zeppelin4Life" <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:m2_Cc.249733$hY.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Zeppelin4Life" <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:IV%Cc.131580$j24....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> about rotating, I would, but this is a patch cable for 1/4"(TRS) to
> 1/8"(RCA), so flipping them isnt an option
>
> Dave
I think you missed the joke, Dave. ;-)
DM
MM
> 1/8"(RCA), so flipping them isnt an option
Dave,
This was all jokes! Forget it. All these arrows, etc. is audiophile
marketing BS.
/Mikhail
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Zeppelin4Life" <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dY%Cc.131581$j24....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Found this on the monster cable site.
>
> Will I notice a difference if I hook up my cables in the wrong direction?
> You probably will not <snip>
That should answer your questions. ;-)
> Why does my instrument cable have arrows?
Marketing hype... you paid the extra bucks, didn't you?
Do *you* hear any difference?
--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
MM
> cable has the shield connected.
>
> Whether you want the sheild connected to the low impedance
> source end or the high impedance receiving end of things
> depends on whether electric or magnetic fields dominate.
> IOW, who knows?
I thought we talked about speaker cables, but it seems the original poster
meant patch cables. If the arrows really show how the shield is connected
then having this marking does make sense.
/Mikhail
Scott Dorsey
This is discussed in the FAQ.
For unbalanced cables built with telescoped shields, there IS a good reason to
mark which end has the shield lifted and which isn't.
But in general, Monster Cable marketing consists of solid lies, and I suspect
that the directional arrows are just more of that.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
andrewunix
: On 25 Jun 2004 12:37:58 -0600, andrewunix <agre...@nyx.net> wrote:
:
:>They've probably designed it in such a way that the
:>"performance" is measurably, but still inconsequentially, "better" when
:>current travels in one direction than in the other.
:
: Any suggestions how?
Maybe 'measurably' was an exaggeration.
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message news:cbi314$bt3$1...@panix2.panix.com...
I was wondering why your "Mastering for Vinyl" article in this month's
Recording mag didn't mention anything about Monster interface wiring.
<g>
Nice article, BTW. Picked it up while I was in Montana last week and
perused it while the studio owner was trying to figure out his digital
desk routing for me. (I'll never figure out why people buy all this stuff
and have no clue as to how to use it - - - my earlier promised 'technical
assistance' from a supposed house engineer consisted of the owner
handing me the operating manuals and essentially leaving the area).
--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Zeppelin4Life
Dave
"MM" <mb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2k3gkrF...@uni-berlin.de...
Zeppelin4Life
>
> Do *you* hear any difference?
>
>
> --
> David Morgan (MAMS)
> http://www.m-a-m-s.com
> http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
>
on the instrument guitar cables, yea, I do hear a difference. Cheap ass 40
foot thin cables for $10 vs 20 for $40...I can hear a difference
Mike Rivers
> It's not about signal flow; instead it's about which end of the
> cable has the shield connected.
There's only one way to build a cable correctly, and that's with the
shield connected at both ends. If the customer wants to disconnect the
shield on one end to let in the EMI, that should be something that he
should do on his own.
As for me, I don't want to buy any miswired cables, particularly at
premium prices.
--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mri...@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Mike Rivers
> Mr. Avins has FORGOTTEN more about analog and digital signal processing
> for mission critical applications than most of will ever know.
>
> He has studied this issue extensively and has the data to back up his
> opinions.
Which are?
Come on, man, don't leave us hanging.
Ricky W. Hunt
>
>
> on the instrument guitar cables, yea, I do hear a difference. Cheap ass 40
> foot thin cables for $10 vs 20 for $40...I can hear a difference
>
>
Cables do make a difference but the retail cost has nothing to do with it. I
have some no name cables that are wonderful and some expensive ones that
suck. And vice versa.
Ricky W. Hunt
news:znr1088201478k@trad...
>
>
> As for me, I don't want to buy any miswired cables, particularly at
> premium prices.
>
But what if they're miswired better than the competitor's cables? Would you
willing to pay more then???
Scott Dorsey
>
>
>on the instrument guitar cables, yea, I do hear a difference. Cheap ass 40
>foot thin cables for $10 vs 20 for $40...I can hear a difference
That's the real problem with Monster. They have driven out most of the
mid-grade cables from the MI market because they are so much more profitable
for the dealer. You go into a typical store and you have a choice of Monster
or low-end crap, and nothing else. That's bad.
Cheap cables not only sound bad, but they fail too. That's no reason to
buy Monster stuff, that's just a reason to avoid Hosa and similar dreck.
Scott Dorsey
>In article <tavod095asjniv5rt...@4ax.com> chrishornbe...@att.net writes:
>
>> It's not about signal flow; instead it's about which end of the
>> cable has the shield connected.
>
>There's only one way to build a cable correctly, and that's with the
>shield connected at both ends. If the customer wants to disconnect the
>shield on one end to let in the EMI, that should be something that he
>should do on his own.
NO! If you are running unbalanced signal through 2-conductor cable, the proper
thing to do is lift the shield at one end and let the second conductor give
you ground continuity. Avoiding current flowing in the shield is a good idea
and will reduce RFI issues.
Likewise, if you use three-conductor shielded lines for balanced audio, like
Neumann does, it's often a good idea to telescope the shield at one end.
>As for me, I don't want to buy any miswired cables, particularly at
>premium prices.
I want everything to be marked how it's wired. Balanced to unbalanced cables
should also be marked as to which pin is hot. Nobody seems to do this any more.
I Care
sites such as this one:
http://www.vandenhul.com/artpap/wiring14.htm
This indicates the best configuration for interconnects (not speakers)
is using 2 twin core cables with the shields of both connected at one
end only.
--
I. Care
Address fake until
the spam goes away
Ricky W. Hunt
>
> That's the real problem with Monster. They have driven out most of the
> mid-grade cables from the MI market because they are so much more
profitable
> for the dealer. You go into a typical store and you have a choice of
Monster
> or low-end crap, and nothing else. That's bad.
>
> Cheap cables not only sound bad, but they fail too. That's no reason to
> buy Monster stuff, that's just a reason to avoid Hosa and similar dreck.
> --scott
That is a very good (as usual) assessment. Those seem to be the only
"brand", well I see Planet Waves (which I only have one guitar cord of and I
actually like), available at most stores and that describes them precisely.
Hosa is the only cable I've ever had fail "just sitting there" (on the
backside of a patchbay for instance), and I've had quite a few of them do
that.
Zeppelin4Life
Dave
"Ricky W. Hunt" <rhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oI4Dc.95558$2i5.48710@attbi_s52...
Richard Tomkins
the bits, er, electrons go straight. ;-)
rtt
reddred
> ive been using monster cable for years with no problems...today i
discovered
> the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
> other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
>
>
Ignore the man behind the curtain.
jb
reddred
>
> In article <Hu_Cc.1346$Av3....@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> cdk...@aol.com
writes:
>
> > Mr. Avins has FORGOTTEN more about analog and digital signal processing
> > for mission critical applications than most of will ever know.
> >
> > He has studied this issue extensively and has the data to back up his
> > opinions.
>
> Which are?
>
> Come on, man, don't leave us hanging.
>
He says all the things people say here about monster cables in mostly the
same way.
jb
Max Arwood
Max Arwood
"Jay Kadis" <j...@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:jay-90CC18.1...@news.stanford.edu...
> In article <m2_Cc.249733$hY.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
> "Zeppelin4Life" <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ive been using monster cable for years with no problems...today i
discovered
> > the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
> > other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
> Since audio is AC, it's going to be going backwards about half the time no
> matter how you deploy the cable.
>
> -Jay
> --
> x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
> x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
> x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
> x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x
S O'Neill
> I thought audio was pulsating DC???
> Max Arwood
Lots of times it is, but it's more useful to think of that as DC (bias)
with an AC component (signal - which is what we're interested in). And
a cap or a transformer will extract the audio (AC) from the DC.
Don Pearce
wrote:
>I thought audio was pulsating DC???
>Max Arwood
Pulsating DC never crosses the zero line - that is what makes it DC.
Audio spends roughly half its time above and below the line.
Of course it is quite possible for both DC and audio to be present on
a single wire together. A capacitor will pull them apart.
d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com
martin griffith
>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:21:06 GMT, Classic...@hotmail.com suggested:
>: ive been using monster cable for years with no problems...today i discovered
>: the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
>: other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
>
>Mostly marketing. They've probably designed it in such a way that the
>"performance" is measurably, but still inconsequentially, "better" when
>current travels in one direction than in the other. This makes the cable
>seem technologically superior to the consumer, and the consumer is willing
>to pay more for it.
If found that a cable sounded better one way than the other, I would
claim that it is faulty, because it is damaging the sound
martin
Serious error.
All shortcuts have disappeared.
Screen. Mind. Both are blank.
Mike Rivers
In article <Q%3Dc.95457$2i5.69017@attbi_s52> rhu...@hotmail.com writes:
> > As for me, I don't want to buy any miswired cables, particularly at
> > premium prices.
> But what if they're miswired better than the competitor's cables? Would you
> willing to pay more then???
Sure. The more mistakes, the more labor went into building the cable.
After all, someone had to THINK of all the things they could do
besides make it conduct electricity from end to end.
Mike Rivers
> This indicates the best configuration for interconnects (not speakers)
> is using 2 twin core cables with the shields of both connected at one
> end only.
Here's my philosophy as expressed in a Recording article [July 1997]
(in 500 words or less):
In an ideal world, the shield should carry no current. This is why we
use two wires (to carry the current) and a shield (to keep junk out).
If we have to use the shield to carry current because we're too cheap
to buy equipment with balanced I/O or too cheap to use two-conductor
cable when one conductor and a shield will do, a ground connection
must be maintained somewhere if we don't do it through the shield.
This is often through the safety ground pin of the power plug.
Duplicating the ground connection makes a "ground loop" which can be a
place where hum is induced. This is why we break the shield
connection. We can break the ground loop by disconnecting the safety
ground, too, but as we all know, this is dangerous (so of course we
NEVER do it).
Wherever possible (which means when I'm building the cable) I wire
both balanced and unbalanced connections with two conductor shielded
cable. I attach the shield to ground at both ends (even if I've put
"unbalanced" plugs on each end). I hook it up and listen. If it
doesn't hum, I leave it. If it hums, I disconnect the shield at one
end. If the hum goes away, I leave the shield disconnected. If the hum
gets louder, I reconnect it and try disconnecting it at the other end.
Listen again. Leave it the way it hums the least.
If another piece of equipment gets added to the chain, the situation
may change.
Mike Rivers
In article <oI4Dc.95558$2i5.48710@attbi_s52> rhu...@hotmail.com writes:
> I see Planet Waves (which I only have one guitar cord of and I
> actually like), available at most stores and that describes them precisely.
I really like the connectors they use. For those of you who haven't
looked at them, the 1/4" plugs have a section near the handle end of
the sleeve that's springy and bulges out just a bit, to make a robust
connection to the hole (ground) of the jack. Because you have multiple
segments pressing metal-against-metal, the contact area is improved,
plus the plug stays put and the sleeve contact surface isn't changing
when there's a change in the pull on the cable. They have RCA plugs
built the same way.
I don't know that there's anything special about the wire they use.
> Hosa is the only cable I've ever had fail "just sitting there" (on the
> backside of a patchbay for instance), and I've had quite a few of them do
> that.
Hosa is the brand we love to hate. I've had a few Hosa cables in
service for years and years without a failure. I had one multi-channel
cable fail right at the junction of a molded plug. I cut off the plug,
stripped the cable, soldered on a new plug, and it's been fine ever
since. The wire was perfectly reasonable, not too thin to work with.
The reason why cables fail at the rear of a patchbay has already been
pointed out in this thread. No support + fairly sharp bend + weight of
cable = fatigue. It happens most often with molded-on plugs (which is
just about all Hosa uses) because there's a well defined point of
stress where the wire emerges from the plug. Hand-assembled plugs tend
to be a bit better supported.
Mike Rivers
> NO! If you are running unbalanced signal through 2-conductor cable, the proper
> thing to do is lift the shield at one end and let the second conductor give
> you ground continuity. Avoiding current flowing in the shield is a good idea
> and will reduce RFI issues.
I suspect that this is not the construction of the cables that we're
discussing here. Could it be that they're building "unbalanced" cables
this way? Actually, I've found that the "proper" way to do it is the
way it works best. If it doesn't work any worse with the shield
connected at both ends (and it shouldn't if the equipment is properly
designed - a big IF sometimes) then I prefer to leave the shield
connected so as to keep it continuous from box to box.
Still, the arrows don't necessarily dictate the direction of signal
flow, but they could be useful in maintaining consistency in
connection of the shield so you don't have one box with shields
connected on the input and output, and the next (or previous) box
having no shields connected.
Unscientific and pseudoscientific discussions abound (and I'll bet
there'll be one stemming from this thread) about whether, on a
one-end-only ground-to-shield interconnection system, it's correct
to connect the shield to ground on the source end or the destination
end. In practice I have found no difference as long as you do it
consistently throughout. If the arrow on the cable is on the end with
the shield connected to the ground conductor (if this is indeed a
two-conductor+shield cable attached to single-conductor+shield
connectors), always putting the arrow pointing away from the source
will give you one configuration, always pointing hte arrow toward the
source will give you the other configuration.
> I want everything to be marked how it's wired. Balanced to unbalanced cables
> should also be marked as to which pin is hot. Nobody seems to do this any
> more.
I thought it would be a good idea for cable assembly manufacturers to
make an assortment of wirings and mentioned this to a friend at Hosa.
He recognized the need and could certainly supply them, but the real
world problem is that dealers would have to stock more different items
and most dealers wouldn't know what to sell to the customer who didn't
know what to buy (most of 'em).
This is why I build my own cables when doing a major wiring job. And
if I buy a cable, unless it's identified as something special, I
expect it to be wired the way it looks - everything connected at both
ends.
Mike Rivers
> > > Mr. Avins has FORGOTTEN more about analog and digital signal processing
> > > for mission critical applications than most of will ever know.
> He says all the things people say here about monster cables in mostly the
> same way.
The pros or the cons? (and I'm not talking about people)
Ricky W. Hunt
>
>
> The reason why cables fail at the rear of a patchbay has already been
> pointed out in this thread. No support + fairly sharp bend + weight of
> cable = fatigue. It happens most often with molded-on plugs (which is
> just about all Hosa uses)
Yep. That's exactly where they failed. Some had no stress on that area
though but the majority did.
Zeppelin4Life
gold, which is not going to flex too easily! but they claim it can, and the
cables have guarantees
Dave
"Ricky W. Hunt" <rhu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SpeDc.120375$Sw.92817@attbi_s51...
Mondoslug1
Richard Crowley
> I thought audio was pulsating DC???
Digital audio is.
Analog spends half its time in the negative hemisphere.
Blind Joni
>After all, someone had to THINK of all the things they could do
>besides make it conduct electricity from end to end.
Talk about created value!!!
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Mark Plancke
<Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>ive been using monster cable for years with no problems...today i discovered
>the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
>other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
>
>Dave
>
IIRC the ground is lifted on one end, the arrow indicates that.
Mark
"In this business egos can be wonderful, but they also can be a curse."
Michael Wagener
Ben Bradley
<Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>about rotating, I would, but this is a patch cable for 1/4"(TRS) to
>1/8"(RCA), so flipping them isnt an option
No problem, just put the appropriate adapter on each end.
What's a 1/8" RCA?
>Dave
Ben Bradley
(just to be pedantic)
Current in a Class A amplifier is pulsating DC.
Ben Bradley
<Ma...@SoundtechRecording.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:21:06 GMT, "Zeppelin4Life"
><Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>ive been using monster cable for years with no problems...today i discovered
>>the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
>>other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
>>
>>Dave
>>
>
>IIRC the ground is lifted on one end, the arrow indicates that.
Then what makes the ground connection between equipment?
reddred
>
> In article <OdKdndOjGsl...@adelphia.com>
opalokaR...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> > > > Mr. Avins has FORGOTTEN more about analog and digital signal
processing
> > > > for mission critical applications than most of will ever know.
>
> > He says all the things people say here about monster cables in mostly
the
> > same way.
>
> The pros or the cons? (and I'm not talking about people)
>
>
He's generally against fancy cables, but he's not one to think that all
cable is created equal.
I think there could be some info he's got to back that up which is of the
rigorous math/science variety, but I haven't seen it. Maybe I'll google it.
jb
Mike Rivers
> molded plugs suck. But even with expensive cable with Monster, they have
> gold, which is not going to flex too easily!
Huh? The gold is plating on the plug. No problem with that flexing,
though I suppose it could wear off if you do a lot of plugging.
> and the
> cables have guarantees
I guess you're taking about Monster. Hosa cables also have a lifetime
guarantee. I even know someone who sent one back and got a free
replacement. Most people don't bother, and would rather just complain
about poor quality. One approach (if you're not doing mission critical
work anyway) is just to have a couple of spares on hand. They're cheap
enough, and you're not out of business if one fails and you send it
back.
U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles
>
> In article <Hu_Cc.1346$Av3....@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> cdk...@aol.com writes:
>
>> Mr. Avins has FORGOTTEN more about analog and digital signal processing
>> for mission critical applications than most of will ever know.
>>
>> opinions.
>
> Which are?
>
> Come on, man, don't leave us hanging.
>
"Save your money."
He had a thread in the past year or so when he presented actual
measurements including a fairly rigorous discussion of his methods.
We've our snake oil over there too, but "how did you test?" makes it go
away fairly quickly.
U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles
<Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, im a huge Mogami fan.
>
Belden, single pair foil shielded for all permenant wiring. I've had
good luck with Switchcraft and Cannon connectors. 8051 is the number
that sticks in my mind, but that's from memory. I've a couple hundred
feet on a roll somewhere.
I tend to purchase pre-made cable by the ends. The middle is only going
to last until someone rolls a rack full of power amps over it. Good
ends can be reused.
Zeppelin4Life
"Ben Bradley" <ben_nospa...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9ebrd0p105qco23js...@4ax.com...
Mike Rivers
In article <o4brd0p2m7tv9eqf8...@4ax.com> Ma...@SoundtechRecording.com writes:
> IIRC the ground is lifted on one end, the arrow indicates that.
This seems to be the consensus of opinion here. Doesn't anyone who has
a cable with arrows also have an ohm meter and check to see if that's
actually the case? Or even a simple continuity checker? Or know how to
make one? (or is that too much to expect from someeone who buys cables
with directional arrows?)
Mike Rivers
> He's generally against fancy cables, but he's not one to think that all
> cable is created equal.
Fair enough.
> I think there could be some info he's got to back that up which is of the
> rigorous math/science variety, but I haven't seen it. Maybe I'll google it.
Not hard. Probably the most significant thing is capacitance. But skin
effect is a little far fetched.
Don Cooper
Zeppelin4Life wrote:
> well I meant jsut RCA, but it is 1/8 :-p
?
Ricky W. Hunt
news:aGlDc.4260$Av3...@nwrdny01.gnilink.net...
>
> We've our snake oil over there too, but "how did you test?" makes it go
> away fairly quickly.
>
I've found test results and proof do very little to dissuade these people.
Zeppelin4Life
beat the crap out of all the other ones ive used. They dont make fuzzy
noises and randomly die, like almost every other cable ive gotten....
Dave
"Mike Rivers" <mri...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1088284213k@trad...
dinkledork
> IIRC the ground is lifted on one end, the arrow indicates that.
>
> Mark
> "In this business egos can be wonderful, but they also can be a curse."
> Michael Wagener
No, it would be the shield connection to the ground that would be lifted
on one end. The ground has to be connected to both ends. So, in the case
of an unblanced cable with only 1 wire and 1 ground/shield wire, the
arrow is complete bullshit.
JoVee
situation... both inner conductors are indeed connected both ends, but the
SHIELD is connected only at one end?
--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--
dinkledork
JoVee wrote:
> what about the concept of having 2-cond+shield cable used in an unballanced
> situation... both inner conductors are indeed connected both ends, but the
> SHIELD is connected only at one end?
>
Sure, great concept. Check your Monster or other overpriced unbalanced
audio cables and get back to me.
David Morgan (MAMS)
"Zeppelin4Life" <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:O9DDc.255557$hY.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Even though monster cables advertising might be bullshit, the cables still
> beat the crap out of all the other ones ive used. They dont make fuzzy
> noises and randomly die, like almost every other cable ive gotten....
Correct... Monster set new failure records for me by arriving 'open' out of the
packages. Three out of eight cables purchased once were DOA... no solder
connections on the tip of a standard 1/4" TS cable. Couple that with being
able to buy a 3-head hi-fi VCR for only $20 more than a set of 6-foot Monster
cables to interface it with and you have the crux of my personal dislike for the
product. It simply does not live up to the hype in measurable value for the $$$.
When someone tells me signal flow in a hunk of copper is better in one direction
than in the opposite, I have to ask, "Who told the electrons?"
--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
reddred
>
> In article <YKWdnTdTYOe...@adelphia.com>
opalokaR...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> > He's generally against fancy cables, but he's not one to think that all
> > cable is created equal.
>
> Fair enough.
>
> > I think there could be some info he's got to back that up which is of
the
> > rigorous math/science variety, but I haven't seen it. Maybe I'll google
it.
>
> Not hard. Probably the most significant thing is capacitance. But skin
> effect is a little far fetched.
>
Even if it has some small effect, it doesn't matter because it's inaudible.
So it's unnecessary. You don't blow out birthday cakes with fire hoses.
jb
Scott Dorsey
Zeppelin4Life <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Even though monster cables advertising might be bullshit, the cables still
>beat the crap out of all the other ones ive used. They dont make fuzzy
>noises and randomly die, like almost every other cable ive gotten....
I suggest trying cables from mid-range outfits like Whirlwind, Gepco,
Mogami, or premade Canare assemblies. They will cost a lot less than
Monster cable because you aren't paying the dealer markup or the
marketing costs, and they won't fall apart like Hosa and Radio Shack crap.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Mike Rivers
> Even though monster cables advertising might be bullshit, the cables still
> beat the crap out of all the other ones ive used. They dont make fuzzy
> noises and randomly die, like almost every other cable ive gotten....
What other brands of cables do you by, or how do you abuse them? I've
rarely had a problem with any cable, and I've been doing this for a
very long time.
Harry Lavo
news:tavod095asjniv5rt...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:21:06 GMT, "Zeppelin4Life"
> <Classic...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >ive been using monster cable for years with no problems...today i
discovered
> >the cable has an arrow saying 'signal flow'. One of my cables points the
> >other direction, but I hear no difference..what is this all about?
>
> cable has the shield connected.
>
> Whether you want the sheild connected to the low impedance
> source end or the high impedance receiving end of things
> depends on whether electric or magnetic fields dominate.
> IOW, who knows?
Monster makes it very clear in the wiring instructions that come with their
RCA connectors. They want the shield grounded at the "receiving" end...thus
the arrows point to the "receiving" end. Whether you agree or not, there is
a reason they have the arrows there. No snake oil needed.
Nousaine
>
>In article <O9DDc.255557$hY.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
>Classic...@hotmail.com writes:
>
>> Even though monster cables advertising might be bullshit, the cables still
>> beat the crap out of all the other ones ive used. They dont make fuzzy
>> noises and randomly die, like almost every other cable ive gotten....
>
>What other brands of cables do you by, or how do you abuse them? I've
>rarely had a problem with any cable, and I've been doing this for a
>very long time.
IME upscale brands, in particular Monster, have been the most problematic of
cabling. Those split-end bananas were really bad. Also some of the
interconnects had barrels too wide to fit them side-by-side in some jack
panels. And the weight of the speaker cables would cause the spade conenctors
to loosen if the speakers were ever moved even slightly.
Hal Laurent
>
> In article <O9DDc.255557$hY.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
Classic...@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Even though monster cables advertising might be bullshit, the cables
still
> > beat the crap out of all the other ones ive used. They dont make fuzzy
> > noises and randomly die, like almost every other cable ive gotten....
>
> What other brands of cables do you by, or how do you abuse them? I've
> rarely had a problem with any cable, and I've been doing this for a
> very long time.
The only cables I've had trouble with are Hosa cables with molded
ends. I've had no trouble with Hosa cables with "normal" metal
plugs.
Hal Laurent
Baltimore
Chris Hornbeck
wrote:
>"Chris Hornbeck" <chrishornbe...@att.net> wrote in message
>news:tavod095asjniv5rt...@4ax.com...
>> Whether you want the sheild connected to the low impedance
>> source end or the high impedance receiving end of things
>> depends on whether electric or magnetic fields dominate.
>> IOW, who knows?
>
>Monster makes it very clear in the wiring instructions that come with their
>RCA connectors. They want the shield grounded at the "receiving" end...thus
>the arrows point to the "receiving" end. Whether you agree or not, there is
>a reason they have the arrows there. No snake oil needed.
None implied. But just for variety, Tributaries recommends the
opposite. I personally don't know enough to comment.
Mike Rivers' advice to just try it seems appropo.
And, unless you're really, really unlucky it don't matter.
Chris Hornbeck
Ricky W. Hunt
news:O9DDc.255557$hY.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> beat the crap out of all the other ones ive used. They dont make fuzzy
> noises and randomly die, like almost every other cable ive gotten....
The point was made earlier that the reason for this is that all other
"decent" cables have been driven out of the market place. So you have only
Monster cable (decent but outrageously overpriced) and crap. That "lifetime
guarantee" for most people isn't worth it. If you had access to decent price
cable (but that's just as good as Monster) you could replace it yourself a
half dozen times for what it cost to buy the Monster cable once.
Geoff Wood
> what about the concept of having 2-cond+shield cable used in an
> unballanced situation... both inner conductors are indeed connected
> both ends, but the SHIELD is connected only at one end?
Yep, otherwise you have an instant little ground-loop. Arrows of use if you
want to keep a consistant regimen like "sheild grounded at signal source
end".
The logic for that connection scheme is that the signal conductors are
identical gauge/length ,blaa. And that intereference currents flow only in
the screen, and not in the actual signal wires.
geoff
Zeppelin4Life
all types of them..all of them died. the flexors on the end cause it to
fatigue and break. so I use metal ends now..
dave
"Hal Laurent" <lau...@charm.net> wrote in message
news:dgLDc.16$K36....@news.abs.net...
U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles
wrote:
Buy a roll of cable?
1000' of cable costs MUCH less than a set of "Monsters"
Mike Rivers
> IME upscale brands, in particular Monster, have been the most problematic of
> cabling. Those split-end bananas were really bad.
Banana plugs? They're for test equipment. Get cables with spade lugs
or real speaker connectors. (get speakers with real speaker
connectors, too)
> Also some of the
> interconnects had barrels too wide to fit them side-by-side in some jack
> panels.
This is not a problem with the cable, it's a problem with the buyer.
You bought the wrong thing. There's a reason for large barrels on
connectors - they accommodate larger diameter cable than the more
standard connector. This is good if you want to use large diameter
wire - appropriate for speakers but not generally an improvement for
line level audio, and that's really what most of us are talking about
in this thread.
> And the weight of the speaker cables would cause the spade conenctors
> to loosen if the speakers were ever moved even slightly.
Again, this is not a problem with the cable. It's heavy for a good
reason. Support the cable so it doesn't strain the connectors and it
won't be a problem. Large diameter cable with heavy duty plugs in
crummy "frameless" jacks sometimes used on guitar store PA speakers
are also a problem. The cable will destroy the jack in short order.
But that's a problem with the speaker, not the cable.
What you're describing are system problems, not cable problems. When
building a system, you need to understand the interfaces between the
pieces, and that includes the type of connector and type of cable.
Mike Rivers
In article <WHMDc.5166$NA1.4...@news02.tsnz.net> ge...@paf.co.nz-nospam writes:
> Yep, otherwise you have an instant little ground-loop. Arrows of use if you
> want to keep a consistant regimen like "sheild grounded at signal source
> end".
The problem with this "theory" is that a ground loop is only bad if
something else is wrong. If the equipment is built so that
interference on the ground can affect the perfrmance (read: something
wrong) then removing ground loops will help. If the equipment is
properly designed and built (and it IS possible to do this with
unbalanced connections) then maintaining continuity of the shield
provides better EMI shilelding than leaving a hole in the shield.
Those really interested in the principles behind this should get a
copy of the June 1995 issue of the AES Journal. They've made it a
special publication and you can order an individual copy through the
AES web site, http://www.aes.org. I think it's $15, and the entire
issue is devoted to grounding and shielding. Some of the articles even
have no any integral signs and can be understood by anyone who know
that you need a complete circuit in order for current to flow.
Nousaine
>In article <20040627221405...@mb-m22.aol.com> nous...@aol.com
>writes:
>
>> IME upscale brands, in particular Monster, have been the most problematic
>of
>> cabling. Those split-end bananas were really bad.
>
>Banana plugs? They're for test equipment. Get cables with spade lugs
>or real speaker connectors. (get speakers with real speaker
>connectors, too)
Nah. Pamona dual banana pluigs are the best commonly speaker connection method
available for consumer gear. Speakon connectors are excellent as well.
But as a good friend says "spade lugs drive me bananas!"
>
>> Also some of the
>> interconnects had barrels too wide to fit them side-by-side in some jack
>> panels.
>
>This is not a problem with the cable, it's a problem with the buyer.
>You bought the wrong thing.
I didn't buy these. They were borrowed or supplied.
There's a reason for large barrels on
>connectors - they accommodate larger diameter cable than the more
>standard connector. This is good if you want to use large diameter
>wire - appropriate for speakers but not generally an improvement for
>line level audio,
You'll notice I said interconnects.
and that's really what most of us are talking about
>in this thread.
>
>> And the weight of the speaker cables would cause the spade conenctors
>> to loosen if the speakers were ever moved even slightly.
>
>Again, this is not a problem with the cable. It's heavy for a good
>reason. Support the cable so it doesn't strain the connectors and it
>won't be a problem.
The cables were heavy because they had those stupid 'networks' attached in
addition to heavy wire AND the Monster spades were so problematic there was
literally no way to "support" the connection without using a steptable behind
the jack or with duct tape.. And as mentioned any movement of the speaker, even
minor positioning changes, would tend loosen the connection.
And this is why these upscale cables/connections are often a disaster compared
to zip cord and banans. IME if you want to use spade lugs better to get some
standard fare from the local electronics parts storre and avoid 'branded'
pieces.
This particular speaker cable was used for a controlled listening test of
system "tweaks" used in series.
Large diameter cable with heavy duty plugs in
>crummy "frameless" jacks sometimes used on guitar store PA speakers
>are also a problem. The cable will destroy the jack in short order.
>But that's a problem with the speaker, not the cable.
>
>What you're describing are system problems, not cable problems. When
>building a system, you need to understand the interfaces between the
>pieces, and that includes the type of connector and type of cable.
Agreed. I understand all of that; which is why I say it is better to avoid
upscale products such as Monster because by and large they are offer no
advatage of any kind and often provide worse performance.
Scott Dorsey
Nousaine <nous...@aol.com> wrote:
> mri...@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
>
>>In article <20040627221405...@mb-m22.aol.com> nous...@aol.com
>>writes:
>>
>>> IME upscale brands, in particular Monster, have been the most problematic
>>of
>>> cabling. Those split-end bananas were really bad.
>>
>>Banana plugs? They're for test equipment. Get cables with spade lugs
>>or real speaker connectors. (get speakers with real speaker
>>connectors, too)
>
>Nah. Pamona dual banana pluigs are the best commonly speaker connection method
>available for consumer gear. Speakon connectors are excellent as well.
>
>But as a good friend says "spade lugs drive me bananas!"
Pomona plugs don't have all that much contact area. They can get hot and
melt, which is no fun. Speakon connectors are wonderful. They have a very
large surface area and cannot be installed with incorrect polarity.
The high end guys will never adopt them, which is a real shame.
Mike Rivers
> Nah. Pamona dual banana pluigs are the best commonly speaker connection method
> available for consumer gear. Speakon connectors are excellent as well.
Tell you the truth, I use the banana plugs on the back of my KEF 103.2
"consumer" speakers in the control room. But they're attached to #12
zip cord, about 30 cents/foot.
> But as a good friend says "spade lugs drive me bananas!"
And as Groucho Marx said (approximately): Time flies like arrows.
Fruit flies like bananas.
> The cables were heavy because they had those stupid 'networks' attached in
> addition to heavy wire AND the Monster spades were so problematic there was
> literally no way to "support" the connection without using a steptable behind
> the jack or with duct tape..
You mean you didn't get the Monster Cable Hanger too? Gotta buy into
the whole system, man.
> And this is why these upscale cables/connections are often a disaster compared
> to zip cord and banans.
Speakons are kind of standard in the commercial/industrial sound field
for anything that they can handle. They can take pretty heavy wire and
lock in place. Consumer applications are different because they aren't
usually subject to being moved, at least not once you find the right
place (compromise between best sound and spousal unit approval). A
commercial PA company wouldn't use banana plugs on a speaker because
they do have a tendency to pull loose if the cabinet or the cable is
moved, and you can't watch those things all the time.
Bob Olhsson
>... If the equipment is built so that
> interference on the ground can affect the perfrmance (read: something
> wrong) then removing ground loops will help. If the equipment is
> properly designed and built (and it IS possible to do this with
> unbalanced connections) then maintaining continuity of the shield
> provides better EMI shilelding than leaving a hole in the shield.
The trouble is that all it takes is one piece of incompetently designed
audio gear or some loose house wiring to drop you right off a cliff into the
land of ground loops, lifters and different cable/connector designs making
things sound different when they really shouldn't. The percentage of common,
incompetently designed audio gear is pretty shocking. Any tech from a big
touring sound company can bend your ear about this issue for hours because
they have to dig in and fix all the grounding problems in order to use the
gear people ask for on the road.
--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Mike Rivers
> The percentage of common,
> incompetently designed audio gear is pretty shocking. Any tech from a big
> touring sound company can bend your ear about this issue for hours because
> they have to dig in and fix all the grounding problems in order to use the
> gear people ask for on the road.
Yup, that's the right way to do it. In a way, it's making cheap gear
be as expensive as it ought to be (and would be, if it was properly
designed and built). Unfortunately the labor gets shifted from the
designer (who could do it right once) to the users, each of which have
to fix the same problem.
Nousaine
>In article <20040628121538...@mb-m16.aol.com>,
>Nousaine <nous...@aol.com> wrote:
>> mri...@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
>>
>>>In article <20040627221405...@mb-m22.aol.com> nous...@aol.com
>>>writes:
>>>
>>>> IME upscale brands, in particular Monster, have been the most problematic
>>>of
>>>> cabling. Those split-end bananas were really bad.
>>>
>>>Banana plugs? They're for test equipment. Get cables with spade lugs
>>>or real speaker connectors. (get speakers with real speaker
>>>connectors, too)
>>
>>Nah. Pamona dual banana pluigs are the best commonly speaker connection
>method
>>available for consumer gear. Speakon connectors are excellent as well.
>>
>>But as a good friend says "spade lugs drive me bananas!"
>
>Pomona plugs don't have all that much contact area. They can get hot and
>melt, which is no fun.
I've done power testing on hundreds of speakers and have never seen an
overheated, let alone melted, pamona.
Speakon connectors are wonderful. They have a very
>large surface area and cannot be installed with incorrect polarity.
>The high end guys will never adopt them, which is a real shame.
>--scott
Yes,there are a lot of things that high-end will never adopt :-) Their loss but
they are so busy pissing on their shoes with other things they don't have time
to improve the sound of a given system.
Arny Krueger
news:20040629115738...@mb-m18.aol.com
> klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) srote:
>
>
>
>> In article <20040628121538...@mb-m16.aol.com>,
>> Nousaine <nous...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> mri...@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
>>>
>>>> In article <20040627221405...@mb-m22.aol.com>
>>>> nous...@aol.com writes:
>>>>
>>>>> IME upscale brands, in particular Monster, have been the most
>>>>> problematic of cabling. Those split-end bananas were really bad.
>>>>
>>>> Banana plugs? They're for test equipment. Get cables with spade
>>>> lugs or real speaker connectors. (get speakers with real speaker
>>>> connectors, too)
>>>
>>> Nah. Pamona dual banana pluigs are the best commonly speaker
>>> connection method available for consumer gear. Speakon connectors
>>> are excellent as well.
>
>>> But as a good friend says "spade lugs drive me bananas!"
>> Pomona plugs don't have all that much contact area.
Based on wear patterns, there are 8 strips that make contact, two on each of
the banana peels.
> They can get hot and melt, which is no fun.
The only way I could see that happening would be if they were worn out, and
loose enough that they weren't making proper connection.
> I've done power testing on hundreds of speakers and have never seen an
> overheated, let alone melted, pamona.
Given that they are rated at 15 amps RMS, in audio use their current rating
would be no less than about 50 amps. That would be 5,000 watts into a 2 ohm
load, proportionately more for higher impedances.
Scott Dorsey
>"Nousaine" <nous...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040629115738...@mb-m18.aol.com
>> klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) srote:
>
>
>Based on wear patterns, there are 8 strips that make contact, two on each of
>the banana peels.
Right, but they only have a very small area of contact on each of those
strips.
>> They can get hot and melt, which is no fun.
>
>The only way I could see that happening would be if they were worn out, and
>loose enough that they weren't making proper connection.
Well, of COURSE they are worn out. That's the problem with bananas. Even
with the high grade Pomona types, the springs wear out much too quickly.
Combine that with the small surface area of contact and you got a problem.
This is made worse by the fact that not all banana receptacles have the
right size hole, too. It's not as bad as with RCAs, but it's bad.
>> I've done power testing on hundreds of speakers and have never seen an
>> overheated, let alone melted, pamona.
>
>Given that they are rated at 15 amps RMS, in audio use their current rating
>would be no less than about 50 amps. That would be 5,000 watts into a 2 ohm
>load, proportionately more for higher impedances.
They are surely a big improvement over 1/4" plugs for speaker connections.
But hell, even XLR connectors are rated for 15 amps.
S O'Neill
> But hell, even XLR connectors are rated for 15 amps.
Remember that current ratings are the current that won't melt the insulation or
start a fire, nothing to do with I-square-R losses; the user has to deal with those.
Ben Bradley
>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 20:48:40 +0100, l...@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk suggested:
>: On 25 Jun 2004 12:37:58 -0600, andrewunix <agre...@nyx.net> wrote:
>:
>:>They've probably designed it in such a way that the
>:>"performance" is measurably, but still inconsequentially, "better" when
>:>current travels in one direction than in the other.
>:
>: Any suggestions how?
>
>Maybe 'measurably' was an exaggeration.
Perhaps instead of measurably, he meant marketably.
ChuxGarage
>>
>>Maybe 'measurably' was an exaggeration.
>
> Perhaps instead of measurably, he meant marketably.
It's only partial BS. They use two conductor cable and telescope the shields.
In some instances that can lower your chance of getting a ground loop.
I actually overheard a sales geek tell a customer that the audio would only
flow one direction in these cables, which is why they wanted $99.00 for a set
of RCA cables. And I have beach front property in Kansas for them.
In my experience, Monster Cables really aren't all that hot quality wise, and
they are certainly overpriced. You're better off with some good wire and a
soldering iron. They are popular because audio dealers must sell big equipment
at nearly non-existant profit margins, so they hype these very expensive wires
(with a huge profit margin) to help prop up the bottom line.
They have to pay the bills somehow.
Blind Joni
>In some instances that can lower your chance of getting a ground loop.
I heard a "jazz" cable on an acoustic guitar pickup and the cable was louder
than a standard cable and when flipped sounded muffled against the arrow.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Scott Dorsey
>>It's only partial BS. They use two conductor cable and telescope the shields.
>>In some instances that can lower your chance of getting a ground loop.
>
>I heard a "jazz" cable on an acoustic guitar pickup and the cable was louder
>than a standard cable and when flipped sounded muffled against the arrow.
All bets are off when instrument cables are involved.
Did the "jazz" cable by any chance have coils or resistors
inside the connectors?
Blind Joni
>inside the connectors?
>--scott
Funny you should ask..no way to see..sealed up..I suspect so though.
GMAN
Printer cables etc.... The printer cables listed in the computer at $2.99 cost
when i worked there years ago, we sold them for upwards of $25 dollars.
It made printer purchasers "Lucy get all juicy" when we supposedly threw one
in. I hated lying to people. Bastards these stores all are!!!!
Mike Rivers
> >Did the "jazz" cable by any chance have coils or resistors
> >inside the connectors?
> >--scott
>
> Funny you should ask..no way to see..sealed up..I suspect so though.
I talked to the MIT folks at NAMM one year. They had cables with lumps
in them and were telling me that they "compensated for cable
inductance and capacitance." Sounds like reactive components to me.
Scott Dorsey
>
>In article <20040726003806...@mb-m10.aol.com> blin...@aol.com writes:
>
>> >Did the "jazz" cable by any chance have coils or resistors
>> >inside the connectors?
>>
>
>I talked to the MIT folks at NAMM one year. They had cables with lumps
>in them and were telling me that they "compensated for cable
>inductance and capacitance." Sounds like reactive components to me.
They are indeed. Gabe sent me some photos of the insides of the boxes.
I could see how the idea might be a good one, but both Gabe and I preferred
the sound of generic cables of similar gauge to the MIT cables.
Len S
looking for electrical engineers. I should have answered the ad just
to find what the hell they do with electrical engineers there.