Encoding MP3s to "self destruct": Does such a technique exist?

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Is it possible to program a MP3 - via its metadata or otherwise - to perform the following:

~Told in the first person~

"I am a MP3"

"I was downloaded at 7:30pm EDT on July 19th, 2012"

If ONE of the following conditions is met I will either (1)shorten my playback length to 1 minute 10 sec, or (2)disappear from the user's playback device entirely:

First condition: I am played fully 5 times

OR

Second condition: 30 days passes since the exact date and time of my being downloaded - even if I was played fully only once or twice.

Does such encoding exist? And how is it implemented?


-ChrisCoaster

[Neil Gould]

You may be thinking of an expansion of the metadata. Metadata can be read by
an external app to reveal aspects of the content, such as the song name,
author, etc. but I don't know of any way that this kind of functionality can
be built into the MP3 (or other such) file because it would require a lot of
active code that would probably cause the file to be rejected as
unrecognizable.

--
best regards,

Neil

[John Williamson]

The functionality you want is not, as far as I know, supported by the
mp3 codec, which was not designed for such use. Even if it were, then
many security programs would either reject the download or flag it up as
malware.

Time limiting of file playback can be enforced by using DRM enabled
codecs such as Windows Media Audio. One other way to restrict playback
is to use a streaming format such as Flash where the server can check
the IP address of the downloader, and apply whatever rules you wish to
that download.

The downside of streaming as far as you are concerned is having to
maintain a permanently accessible server. The downside for the user is
having to connect to the internet to listen to the material. The upside
is that the listener has to authenticate themselves before they can
listen, so you now who has listened and when, and can, in theory, charge
per session.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, July 19, 2012 3:22:51 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:

> Time limiting of file playback can be enforced by using DRM enabled
> codecs such as Windows Media Audio. One other way to restrict playback
> is to use a streaming format such as Flash where the server can check
> the IP address of the downloader, and apply whatever rules you wish to
> that download.
>
> The downside of streaming as far as you are concerned is having to
> maintain a permanently accessible server. The downside for the user is
> having to connect to the internet to listen to the material. The upside
> is that the listener has to authenticate themselves before they can
> listen, so you now who has listened and when, and can, in theory, charge
> per session.
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

___________________
So then we need to find out why my mp3s are behaving as indicated in my original post.

It
is
getting
tiresome!

-CC

[Nil]

On 19 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> So then we need to find out why my mp3s are behaving as indicated
> in my original post.

I don't believe that "real" mp3s are capable of any DRM mechanisms or
behavior as you describe. In a quick web search I find vague old rumors
of some companies extending or replacing the format to include features
that were never intended. As such, they probably shouldn't be
considered to be MP3 format, even if that's the file extension.

If your mp3s are blowing up, I'd say it's either your player, or they
aren't really mp3s. Where did they come from?

[John Williamson]

You learn something new every day:-

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2004/03/02/mp3s_with_drm

I don't think anyone's implemented it commercially yet, though. The only
other article referring to it that I could find also dates from 2004.

They seem to have been planning to use the AAC codec.

Apologies if this is what you found...

[Nil]

On 19 Jul 2012, John Williamson <johnwil...@btinternet.com>
wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> You learn something new every day:-
>
> http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2004/03/02/mp3s_with_drm
>
> I don't think anyone's implemented it commercially yet, though.
> The only other article referring to it that I could find also
> dates from 2004.
>
> They seem to have been planning to use the AAC codec.
>
> Apologies if this is what you found...

I think that is the same article I read! No apologies needed - as you
say, nobody seems to have implemented it, and it looks to be a new
format masquarading as mp3, rather then the real deal.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Amazon, iTunes, BeeMP3, plus rips from my CDs, and stuff recorded/produced in Audacity.

[Nil]

On 19 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Amazon, iTunes, BeeMP3, plus rips from my CDs, and stuff
> recorded/produced in Audacity.

I assume this is in answer to my question, even if you don't say so...

I've bought some mp3s from Amazon, and none of them were protected.
Nothing that you rip from CDs yourself or that were created by Audacity
will be protected.

You've got some other factor in play. It's not the mp3s themselves.

[John Williamson]

thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Amazon, iTunes, BeeMP3, plus rips from my CDs, and stuff recorded/produced in Audacity.

If your problem files are from those sources, I'd look for the only
common factor, which is your system and the codecs installed on it.

The commonest problem is a corrupted codec. Did you install any codec
packs or audio software shortly before you started noticing this
problem? Have you run a thorough check for malware, including rootkits?

[thekma...@gmail.com]

JW: I am a verrrrry late-comer to mp3 and digital media in general. I got my first media player in 2008! I've owned an iPod for barely one year as of now.

And I've has this "songs truncating" "songs disappearing" issue since about that far back - 2009. The only difference is the *frequency* of these occurences has gone up since going the iPod route last summer. I'm not implying anything regarding the iTunes, the iPod, my earlier Sansa View player, or anything installed on my system.

Secondly I did post, 12 hours ago, that a member of the Apple support forums recommended me "MP3Val"(validate) which scans mp3 files for problems and grants users the option to fix them. I am using that app now and so far so smooth. Apparently that post did not show up here as you would have read it by now - but that's Google Groups for ya. ;)

The app did find 3 types of problems with my files so far: "truncated or has garbage on the end", "streaming sync error", or "incorrect # of bits". I would estimate 1/5 of my files fits one of the three errors above. Gosh I hate posting things 2x but again - that's Google Groups!

[John Williamson]

It would seem there's a problem with your system, then. I've been using
mp3 files since about 1999 and after moving them from device to device
many times, I now have two files that I am aware of out of almost ten
thousand that are corrupted.

For a number of reasons, though, including Apple's attitude towards copy
protection and locking a particular player to a single computer, I don't
let Apple products or iTunes anywhere near the live system.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 9:26:18 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:

>
> It would seem there&#39;s a problem with your system, then. I&#39;ve been using

> mp3 files since about 1999 and after moving them from device to device
> many times, I now have two files that I am aware of out of almost ten
> thousand that are corrupted.
>

> For a number of reasons, though, including Apple&#39;s attitude towards copy
> protection and locking a particular player to a single computer, I don&#39;t

> let Apple products or iTunes anywhere near the live system.
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

_________________

You may be on to something. In just the past hour I purchased replacements for two mp3s which were cut off(random amounts). After deleting the corrupt files, I played the songs in Windows Media Player - and here's where it gets WEIRD:

WMP continued to indicate the TRUNCATED length of the old file! In other words I loaded the replacement file of correct length(4:22), yet the play bar on WMP went out to 3:30(truncated length of old file) and stopped, while the song continued to play until it's conclusion.

WTF?!

[Neil Gould]

Some applications retain information about a file in a similar way that
browsers show "saved" versions of a web page unless instructed not to or to
update the page by the user. Have you rebooted your computer since cleaning
up the corrupted files?

--
best regards,

Neil

[John Williamson]

That's definitely a "feature" of WMP. It stores information relating to
tracks in an index file, and unless you change the title, it will always
show the old information for that title.

Getting it to re-index stuff isn't easy, which is why I prefer not to
use it if I can avoid it.

Just for reference, I use Windows of various flavours, and I use Winamp
for playback, adding metadata to individual files and generating playlists.

For bulk tagging, I use The Godfather, which does a neat job of tagging
mp3 files in bulk.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 10:55:25 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:

>
> Getting it to re-index stuff isn&#39;t easy, which is why I prefer not to

> use it if I can avoid it.
>
> Just for reference, I use Windows of various flavours, and I use Winamp
> for playback, adding metadata to individual files and generating playlists.
>
> For bulk tagging, I use The Godfather, which does a neat job of tagging
> mp3 files in bulk.
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

________________
What a mess!(mine that is) :)

Well I'm plowing through my collection(still less than 1/3 finished) with the mp3Val application. What's scary is the file reported size drops on a lot of the repairs indicating some of my mp3s had some really nasty baggage attached to them!

At any rate, I found two "misreported bits" files as stated before - truncated files. They have been replaced and tested. This digital era we operate in frankly SUCKS. I wish I'd been around for reel-to-reel - at least stuff doesn't just disappear from those things.

As for bulk tagging, isn't that good if you have a lot of material by the same artist, or if you have entire albums as digital files?

-CC

[Scott Dorsey]

<thekma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>You may be on to something. In just the past hour I purchased replacements=
> for two mp3s which were cut off(random amounts). After deleting the corru=
>pt files, I played the songs in Windows Media Player - and here's where it =
>gets WEIRD:

I hope you made backups of them.

In fact, if you make daily backups of everything, you won't have to worry
when files get corrupted, you just reload from backup.

>WMP continued to indicate the TRUNCATED length of the old file! In other w=
>ords I loaded the replacement file of correct length(4:22), yet the play ba=
>r on WMP went out to 3:30(truncated length of old file) and stopped, while =

>the song continued to play until it's conclusion.
>WTF?!

Sounds like WMP has an internal database to keep track of the files and that
database is screwed up. iTunes does similar silliness. You'd probably have
to clean it all out and re-import the original files if you don't have backups.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Williamson]

thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

> What a mess!(mine that is) :)
>
> Well I'm plowing through my collection(still less than 1/3 finished) with the mp3Val application. What's scary is the file reported size drops on a lot of the repairs indicating some of my mp3s had some really nasty baggage attached to them!
>

Either that, it's truncating the files at the first error, or it's
snipping out the part with the errors in it. I know which option my
money's on, unless you've got a *really* bad set of malware on you
computer. Have you played any files which it's repaired all the way
through yet?

> At any rate, I found two "misreported bits" files as stated before - truncated files. They have been replaced and tested. This digital era we operate in frankly SUCKS. I wish I'd been around for reel-to-reel - at least stuff doesn't just disappear from those things.
>

If you had 9000 tracks (Which is roughly the size of my live collection)
on open reel or cassette, it would have been a major task just keeping
track of the index and making sure the tapes were in the right boxes. If
they were on Vinyl, I'd need a small truck just to carry the music to
the venue.

I'm glad I now have my music in a digital format, and I'm also glad that
I don't need to keep track of which reel of tape is the original when
I'm working on a project. I don't miss wielding non-magnetic razor
blades and splicing blocks, either...

> As for bulk tagging, isn't that good if you have a lot of material by the same artist, or if you have entire albums as digital files?
>

Yup, which is what I use it for. I use CDex to rip CDs, and that does
the artiste/ album tagging for you if you give it the right information.
I often have to reassign tracks to different albums for convenience when
I'm doing the disco. It's easier to remember a track was in the 90s and
find the title than that it was on "Now That's What I Call Music!!!
volume 50, CD2, track 15"

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:21:01 AM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> I hope you made backups of them.
>

> In fact, if you make daily backups of everything, you won&#39;t have to worry

> when files get corrupted, you just reload from backup.

backups.
> --scott
> --
> &quot;C&#39;est un Nagra. C&#39;est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;
____________________
Backups?

Did you say BACKUPS?!?!?

BROTHER I'VE GOT BACKUPS OF BACKUPS ON MULTIPLE DRIVES AND PCS ALL OVER THE HOUSE!!

Just kidding, going on a Hulk Hogan spree there. :)

Seriously though, the songs are truncating in all of these locations at once:
the iPod, iTunes, the source folder on my PC, and my backup folders on my USB toshiba hard drive.

I'm hoping this behavior will start to decrease as I repair more mp3s in MP3Val. This management of my digital music collection is turning into a full-time job! You guys had it so much better in the vinyl & reel-to-reel days, you just don't know it yet.

-ChrisCoaster

[John Williamson]

thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

> Seriously though, the songs are truncating in all of these locations at once:
> the iPod, iTunes, the source folder on my PC, and my backup folders on my USB toshiba hard drive.
>
> I'm hoping this behavior will start to decrease as I repair more mp3s in MP3Val. This management of my digital music collection is turning into a full-time job! You guys had it so much better in the vinyl & reel-to-reel days, you just don't know it yet.
>

See my other reply. Management of digital files for any medium
(Pictures, video, the written word, music....) is a *lot* easier than
keeping track of actual physical objects. Have you never lost a cassette
or reel of tape? Or had your only copy of a piece of music totally
mangled by a defective player? Or dropped a reel of tape on the floor?

We do know which is easier, and believe me, we are using it.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 11:45:57 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
.
> &gt;

> See my other reply. Management of digital files for any medium
> (Pictures, video, the written word, music....) is a *lot* easier than
> keeping track of actual physical objects. Have you never lost a cassette
> or reel of tape? Or had your only copy of a piece of music totally
> mangled by a defective player? Or dropped a reel of tape on the floor?
>
> We do know which is easier, and believe me, we are using it.
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!

___________

Well then I guess my experience with it is conjuring up sentiments for that simpler era.

Is my problem the first instance any of you have heard of this? Are other people going through what I am? If so it's of little consolation at best, but I am fundamentally a lover of mechanical things - things that exist tangibly - not as bits inside of microchips.

And what contingencies can one put in place for the 2012-13 solar max - which is supposed to unleash solar flares of an intensity not seen since the days of Abraham Lincoln?

Lead-lined boxes to store our digital backups? It's a sobering thought, and something that magnetic tape and vinyl are actually immune to.

[Scott Dorsey]

<thekma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Is my problem the first instance any of you have heard of this? Are other =
>people going through what I am? If so it's of little consolation at best, =
>but I am fundamentally a lover of mechanical things - things that exist tan=

>gibly - not as bits inside of microchips.

I have not heard of your particular bug before, but data loss is something
that happens constantly. Databases are corrupted by bugs, disk drives fail.
You cannot trust data storage, you need to keep redundant copies and offsite
backupe.

>And what contingencies can one put in place for the 2012-13 solar max - whi=
>ch is supposed to unleash solar flares of an intensity not seen since the d=
>ays of Abraham Lincoln?

Unfortunately it's actually not expected even to get up to the solar flare
level of 2003. This is the absolute lowest solar maximum I have ever
experienced and we are right now finally getting into solar activity levels
that we should have been seeing several years ago. HF radio people are
miserable at the lack of solar activity. The expected peak in 2013 is
probably going to be less than a fifth of what we had in 1978. (And 1978
was great, with BBC TV on lower VHF channels being visible on the east coast
of the US).
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 12:17:35 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:

>
> Unfortunately it&#39;s actually not expected even to get up to the solar flare

> level of 2003. This is the absolute lowest solar maximum I have ever
> experienced and we are right now finally getting into solar activity levels
> that we should have been seeing several years ago. HF radio people are
> miserable at the lack of solar activity. The expected peak in 2013 is
> probably going to be less than a fifth of what we had in 1978. (And 1978
> was great, with BBC TV on lower VHF channels being visible on the east coast
> of the US).
> --scott
> --

> &quot;C&#39;est un Nagra. C&#39;est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;
_______________

Wow, the version of what you've been told is so different than what we have at least here in the Northeastern U.S.!

Here we're being fed the Armageddon last rights. Poles shifting right before Christmas, solar flares & EMP wiping out up to 1/2 the power grid, frying the innards of every electronic device from iPods to the computers controlling supply/waste flow inside our nuclear power plants!

lol

-ChrisCoaster

[Nil]

On 20 Jul 2012, John Williamson <johnwil...@btinternet.com>
wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> That's definitely a "feature" of WMP. It stores information
> relating to tracks in an index file, and unless you change the
> title, it will always show the old information for that title.

iTunes does it that way, too - it keeps a database populated with the
information it finds in the tags in the audio files it's keeping track
of. Sometimes the information gets out-of-sync, like if you edit the
tags outside of iTunes. It's easy to get iTunes to re-read the tags and
update its database.

My preferred audio file player, Foobar2000 keeps a similar database,
and you sometimes have to jump through an easy hoop to update the info.
I would guess that most player programs do a similar thing. They
shouldn't alter the files themselves.. but I believe some of them do,
particularly Windows Media Player and iTunes.

> For bulk tagging, I use The Godfather, which does a neat job of
> tagging mp3 files in bulk.

I like Mp3Tag (http://www.mp3tag.de/en/index.html).

[Les Cargill]

WMP keeps out of band metadata.

--
Les Cargill

[Nil]

On 20 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Is my problem the first instance any of you have heard of this?
> Are other people going through what I am?

No I have not. This is not common. Yes, data sometimes becomes corrupt,
but it's very unlikely that your mp3s have become corrupt, but nothing
else on the disk has been. I've never heard of anything like this
happening unless the disk itself has become corrupt, in which case
there are many other problems, usually system failure.

You should check the integrity of your hard disk. It sounds like it may
be headed for catastrophic failure.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

The hard disk is a year old - it replaced the original a year ago. Again, I've had this truncating mp3 issue for almost as long as I've been dealing with digital music files.

[Nil]

On 20 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

Well, it's either something dangerously funky about your system or
something destructive you are doing yourself, because it doesn't happen
to anyone else.

You don't tell us anything about your system or methods, so it's all
just idle speculation at this point.

I'd still check my hard disk if I were you.

[Frank]

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:13:16 -0700 (PDT), in 'rec.audio.pro',
in article <Re: Encoding MP3s to "self destruct": Does such a
technique exist?>,

thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

>
>You may be on to something. In just the past hour I purchased replacements for two mp3s which were cut off(random amounts). After deleting the corrupt files, I played the songs in Windows Media Player - and here's where it gets WEIRD:
>
>WMP continued to indicate the TRUNCATED length of the old file! In other words I loaded the replacement file of correct length(4:22), yet the play bar on WMP went out to 3:30(truncated length of old file) and stopped, while the song continued to play until it's conclusion.
>
>WTF?!

You haven't indicated which version of WMP you're using, but if it's a
very old version that doesn't understand VBR (variable bit rate) MP3
files, then that would be the explanation for the incorrect running
time being displayed.

Other old MP3 player programs also have this problem, btw; it's by no
means a problem that's unique to WMP.

Of course, I have no idea whether your problematic files are VBR or
CBR (constant bit rate) encoded.

You might want to try an alternative player, such as VLC media player,
just to see what results you get with these problematic files.

VideoLAN - Official page for VLC media player, the Open Source video
framework!
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

VLC media player installs its own self-contained codecs, which are not
usable by any other applications on your system, and therefore will
not mess up your system in any way. Just be sure, at install time, to
not let it steal file types (extensions) for itself (uncheck them
all).

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].

[Mxsmanic]

thekma...@gmail.com writes:

> Is it possible to program a MP3 - via its metadata or otherwise - to perform the following:

No, thank goodness.

MP3s contain data, not executable code, so what happens to them is entirely up
to the software playing them. And even if software existed that read metadata
and did the things you suggest, the MP3 could still be played by other
software that didn't care about the metadata. Additionally, whenever a user
has physical access to a machine that is running any kind of software, there
is no way to completely ensure that the software will not be compromised.

[Mxsmanic]

thekma...@gmail.com writes:

> So then we need to find out why my mp3s are behaving as indicated in my original post.

They aren't. Some software you have somewhere is responsible for this
behavior, not the MP3.

[Frank]

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:12:26 -0700 (PDT), in 'rec.audio.pro',

in article <Re: Encoding MP3s to "self destruct": Does such a
technique exist?>,
thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

>Well I'm plowing through my collection(still less than 1/3 finished) with the mp3Val application. What's scary is the file reported size drops on a lot of the repairs indicating some of my mp3s had some really nasty baggage attached to them!

I've never used mp3val, but I've often used a (probably similar)
program called mp3check that's more than happy to delete both ID3 tags
of any version (1, 2, 2.2, 2.3 etc.) as well as APE tags.

mp3check will also routinely delete embedded JPEG image files (album
cover art). This can sometimes result in a significant file size
reduction.

>At any rate, I found two "misreported bits" files as stated before - truncated files. They have been replaced and tested.

Files, of any type, just don't decide to "go bad". May I respectfully
suggest that it may be time for you to run chkdsk on the partition
that holds your MP3 files?

First run it with /F switch specified so as to fix logical errors.

Then run it again with the /R switch specified so as to check for
physical errors (note: may take hours depending upon the size of the
partition).

>This digital era we operate in frankly SUCKS. I wish I'd been around for reel-to-reel - at least stuff doesn't just disappear from those things.

If only that had been true! While I've personally never "lost" a tape,
many times I was given tapes that were either mislabeled or had been
stored in the wrong box. When you've got cartons full of tapes to deal
with, this can become a problem.

[Frank]

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:00:58 -0700 (PDT), in 'rec.audio.pro',

in article <Re: Encoding MP3s to "self destruct": Does such a
technique exist?>,
thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

>Is my problem the first instance any of you have heard of this?

Except in cases of a failing HDD (hard disk drive), yes.

Note that the drive may be in perfect shape otherwise, but you're
experiencing a greater number of surface errors as time goes on (that
is, sectors are going bad).

Running a surface scan might be a good idea.

>Are other people going through what I am?

Not to my knowledge.

>If so it's of little consolation at best, but I am fundamentally a lover of mechanical things - things that exist tangibly - not as bits inside of microchips.

Well, I tend to like mechanical things myself, but then again, a HDD
*is* a mechanical device - one that can fail at anytime, sometimes
quickly and sometimes slowly, such as with a deteriorating recording
surface.

>And what contingencies can one put in place for the 2012-13 solar max - which is supposed to unleash solar flares of an intensity not seen since the days of Abraham Lincoln?

I have my tin foil hat handy, but since we're all supposed to be dying
in late December anyway (something about an expiring calendar), I'm
not too concerned about it. :)

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 2:37:36 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:13:16 -0700 (PDT), in &#39;rec.audio.pro&#39;,
> in article &lt;Re: Encoding MP3s to &quot;self destruct&quot;: Does such a
> technique exist?&gt;,
> thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> &gt;
> &gt;You may be on to something. In just the past hour I purchased replacements for two mp3s which were cut off(random amounts). After deleting the corrupt files, I played the songs in Windows Media Player - and here&#39;s where it gets WEIRD:
> &gt;
> &gt;WMP continued to indicate the TRUNCATED length of the old file! In other words I loaded the replacement file of correct length(4:22), yet the play bar on WMP went out to 3:30(truncated length of old file) and stopped, while the song continued to play until it&#39;s conclusion.
> &gt;
> &gt;WTF?!
>
> You haven&#39;t indicated which version of WMP you&#39;re using, but if it&#39;s a
> very old version that doesn&#39;t understand VBR (variable bit rate) MP3

> files, then that would be the explanation for the incorrect running
> time being displayed.
>

> Other old MP3 player programs also have this problem, btw; it&#39;s by no
> means a problem that&#39;s unique to WMP.

>
> Of course, I have no idea whether your problematic files are VBR or
> CBR (constant bit rate) encoded.
>
> You might want to try an alternative player, such as VLC media player,
> just to see what results you get with these problematic files.
>
> VideoLAN - Official page for VLC media player, the Open Source video
> framework!
> http://www.videolan.org/vlc/
>
> VLC media player installs its own self-contained codecs, which are not
> usable by any other applications on your system, and therefore will
> not mess up your system in any way. Just be sure, at install time, to
> not let it steal file types (extensions) for itself (uncheck them
> all).
>
> --
> Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY

> [Please remove &#39;nojunkmail.&#39; from address to reply via e-mail.]
> Read Frank&#39;s thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
> [also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM &amp; NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
_________________
WMP is version 11.0.6

-ChrisCoaster

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 3:04:17 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:

> &gt;Is my problem the first instance any of you have heard of this?

>
> Except in cases of a failing HDD (hard disk drive), yes.
>

> Note that the drive may be in perfect shape otherwise, but you&#39;re

> experiencing a greater number of surface errors as time goes on (that
> is, sectors are going bad).
>
> Running a surface scan might be a good idea.
>

> &gt;Are other people going through what I am?
>
> Not to my knowledge.
>
> &gt;If so it&#39;s of little consolation at best, but I am fundamentally a lover of mechanical things - things that exist tangibly - not as bits inside of microchips.

>
> Well, I tend to like mechanical things myself, but then again, a HDD
> *is* a mechanical device - one that can fail at anytime, sometimes
> quickly and sometimes slowly, such as with a deteriorating recording
> surface.
>

> &gt;And what contingencies can one put in place for the 2012-13 solar max - which is supposed to unleash solar flares of an intensity not seen since the days of Abraham Lincoln?
>
> I have my tin foil hat handy, but since we&#39;re all supposed to be dying
> in late December anyway (something about an expiring calendar), I&#39;m

> not too concerned about it. :)
>
> --

> /hdv/
> [also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM &amp; NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
_________________
Well I highly encourage folks on this thread to google "mp3s shortening" or keywords along that line. I have, and I am certainly not the only person experiencing this nightmare.

I run RegClean Pro weekly and have Norton installed, so I think I'm taking as many precautions as can reasonably be taken.

Also, I do not notice any of my other types of files - pptx, doc, xls, suddenly missing pages or data.

Just the music.

-ChrisCoaster

[Frank]

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:05:47 -0700 (PDT), in 'rec.audio.pro',

in article <Re: Encoding MP3s to "self destruct": Does such a
technique exist?>,
thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

>WMP is version 11.0.6

Then the problem isn't that of playing VBR files in an old program
that only understands CBR files, but it sure sounds to me like you're
afraid of running chkdsk for some reason. :)

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY

[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:05:47 -0700 (PDT), in &#39;rec.audio.pro&#39;,

> in article &lt;Re: Encoding MP3s to &quot;self destruct&quot;: Does such a
> technique exist?&gt;,

> wrote:
>
> &gt;WMP is version 11.0.6
>
> Then the problem isn&#39;t that of playing VBR files in an old program
> that only understands CBR files, but it sure sounds to me like you&#39;re

> afraid of running chkdsk for some reason. :)
>
> --
> Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY

> [Please remove &#39;nojunkmail.&#39; from address to reply via e-mail.]
> Read Frank&#39;s thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
> [also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM &amp; NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
_______________
I'm not afraid to run chkdsk - I can't!

:)

[Ron Capik]

OK, so you said have backup files. Are the backups and
corrupted files the same size before and after the problem?
Does a binary diff show any difference between the two?
==

Later...
Ron Capik
--

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 3:37:44 PM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
> On Friday, July 20, 2012 3:23:04 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:

> &gt; On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 12:05:47 -0700 (PDT), in &amp;#39;rec.audio.pro&amp;#39;,
> &gt; in article &amp;lt;Re: Encoding MP3s to &amp;quot;self destruct&amp;quot;: Does such a
> &gt; technique exist?&amp;gt;,
> &gt; wrote:
> &gt;
> &gt; &amp;gt;WMP is version 11.0.6
> &gt;
> &gt; Then the problem isn&amp;#39;t that of playing VBR files in an old program
> &gt; that only understands CBR files, but it sure sounds to me like you&amp;#39;re
> &gt; afraid of running chkdsk for some reason. :)
> &gt;
> &gt; --
> &gt; Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
> &gt; [Please remove &amp;#39;nojunkmail.&amp;#39; from address to reply via e-mail.]
> &gt; Read Frank&amp;#39;s thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
> &gt; [also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM &amp;amp; NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].
> _______________
> I&#39;m not afraid to run chkdsk - I can&#39;t!
>
> :)
_________
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6002]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Chris>chkdsk
Access Denied as you do not have sufficient privileges.
You have to invoke this utility running in elevated mode.

[Scott Dorsey]

Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:
>On 20 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:
>
>> Is my problem the first instance any of you have heard of this?
>> Are other people going through what I am?
>
>No I have not. This is not common. Yes, data sometimes becomes corrupt,
>but it's very unlikely that your mp3s have become corrupt, but nothing
>else on the disk has been. I've never heard of anything like this
>happening unless the disk itself has become corrupt, in which case
>there are many other problems, usually system failure.

It is more likely that the WMP database has become corrupt, what with WMP
being a buggy mess and all that.

>You should check the integrity of your hard disk. It sounds like it may
>be headed for catastrophic failure.

That's never a bad idea either.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

<thekma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Wow, the version of what you've been told is so different than what we have=

> at least here in the Northeastern U.S.!

Feel free to go to http://www.solarham.com for current measurements and
various predictions. I think just about everyone agrees this is going to
be a lousy maximum. There was even a paper in Radio Science recently saying
we might be headed into another decades-extended minimum like in 1645.

>Here we're being fed the Armageddon last rights. Poles shifting right befor=
>e Christmas, solar flares & EMP wiping out up to 1/2 the power grid, frying=
> the innards of every electronic device from iPods to the computers control=

>ling supply/waste flow inside our nuclear power plants!

Where is this? Fox News or something?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[John Williamson]

So log on as the Administrator. That will let you run chkdsk. The
procedure for doing so varies according to your version of Windows, but
as you don't mention a User Account Control warning, I'll assume XP. If
you've just not mentioned the warning, then you will need click on the
"yes" button on the dialogue box to allow the program to run.

For XP, you will need to reboot the computer, then:-

For XP Professional, Press CTRL + ALT + DEL twice at the Welcome Screen
and input your Administrator password in the classic logon window that
appears.

For XP Home, you need to reboot into safe mode by pressing F8 as the
computer starts, and log on from there as administrator.

[Sean Conolly]

<thekma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c559fee-f26a-4fb2...@googlegroups.com...

> Well I highly encourage folks on this thread to google "mp3s shortening"
> or keywords along that line. I have, and I am certainly not the only
> person experiencing this nightmare.
>
> I run RegClean Pro weekly and have Norton installed, so I think I'm taking
> as many precautions as can reasonably be taken.
>
> Also, I do not notice any of my other types of files - pptx, doc, xls,
> suddenly missing pages or data.
>
> Just the music.

You gotta have something weird going on, virus, malware, undocumented
'feature' in some app. I've never had an issue as you've descibed in 15+
years, and I've never heard of anyone else having it, with nearly everyone I
know keeping MP3s.

Not saying it's not real, but it must be really rare.

Sean

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 4:01:36 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:

>
> Where is this? Fox News or something?
> --scott
>
> --

> &quot;C&#39;est un Nagra. C&#39;est suisse, et tres, tres precis.&quot;
________
L M F A O!!!! :) :)

Scott if I could only give you a two-hands high-five right now!!

And it's not just News Corp this stuff is coming from. News delivery in the States is largely emotionally driven, and designed to drive emotions. All three major cable outlets are responsible to some degree, although I do tend to avoid Fox News and its regional affiliates for news as best as I can.

May I venture a guess that we are across the pond from each other?

-ChrisCoaster

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 4:02:21 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:

>
> For XP, you will need to reboot the computer, then:-
>
> For XP Professional, Press CTRL + ALT + DEL twice at the Welcome Screen
> and input your Administrator password in the classic logon window that
> appears.
>
> For XP Home, you need to reboot into safe mode by pressing F8 as the
> computer starts, and log on from there as administrator.
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

________
XP? Nope it's worse - for you anyway as my friendly troubleshooter: Windows VISTA SP2!

You can't crack that with a tire iron..

-CC

[John Williamson]

No, but a bit of googling helps:-

First way:

Right click on computer --> manage --> Local user and groups -->
Users. Right-click administrator shortcut and click properties, then
uncheck "account is disabled".
Right click again on administrator and set password.
Log off and log on again and you will see administrator in welcome
screen.

Second way:

Click Start
Type: cmd
Right click cmd, click "Run As Administrator"
Type: net user administrator /active:yes
Press Enter

Now log off and log back on. You will see the REAL Administrator Account
at the Welcome Screen. By default, there is no password set on this
account, so it would be a good idea to set one.

NOTE: If you wish to disable the Administrator Account, follow the five
steps above replacing step 4 with the following line:

net user administrator /active:no

Hope this helps.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/20/2012 10:25 AM, Neil Gould wrote:

> Some applications retain information about a file in a similar way that
> browsers show "saved" versions of a web page unless instructed not to or to
> update the page by the user. Have you rebooted your computer since cleaning
> up the corrupted files?

MP3 files seem to have a secret life. I've always just used
them for convenience, but in reviewing the TASCAM DA-40, I
used it for recording a few projects directly in MP3 format.

The recorder automatically names files either as a time and
date or a short bit of user-entered text followed by a
sequential number. I copied the files from the memory card
into a directory on the computer and renamed them in plain
language. I could select those files in Windows, but when I
played them with a simple media player or imported them into
Sound Forge for editing, the original name as written by the
recorder is what showed up, not the Windows file name.

Looking at the metadata, I see that the origial file name is
in the "Title" field, so I guess that's what's displayed,
and what needs to be edited if I want a player to show my
file name rather than the one TASCAM gave it.

Maybe everybody knows this. I just never really fooled
around with the workings of MP3 files before.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[thekma...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 20, 2012 4:24:35 PM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:

>
> Second way:
>
> Click Start
> Type: cmd

> Right click cmd, click &quot;Run As Administrator&quot;

> Type: net user administrator /active:yes
> Press Enter
>
> Now log off and log back on. You will see the REAL Administrator Account
> at the Welcome Screen. By default, there is no password set on this
> account, so it would be a good idea to set one.
>
> NOTE: If you wish to disable the Administrator Account, follow the five
> steps above replacing step 4 with the following line:
>
> net user administrator /active:no
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> --
> Tciao for Now!
>
> John.

_____________________________
________________________
Per your instructions, ran chkdsk this is what I got:


# # #

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6002]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>net user administrator /active:yes
The command completed successfully.


C:\Windows\system32>chkdsk
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is HP.

WARNING! F parameter not specified.
Running CHKDSK in read-only mode.

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3)...
275392 file records processed.
File verification completed.
1341 large file records processed.
0 bad file records processed.
0 EA records processed.
61 reparse records processed.
CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...
340134 index entries processed.
Index verification completed.
0 unindexed files processed.
CHKDSK is verifying security descriptors (stage 3 of 3)...
275392 security descriptors processed.
Security descriptor verification completed.
32372 data files processed.
CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...
36913768 USN bytes processed.
Usn Journal verification completed.
Windows found problems with the file system.
Run CHKDSK with the /F (fix) option to correct these.

478366528 KB total disk space.
204159076 KB in 195324 files.
113876 KB in 32373 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
401868 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
273691708 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
119591632 total allocation units on disk.
68422927 allocation units available on disk.

C:\Windows\system32>

# # #


Regarding the 61 "reparse records" in stage 1 of 3: I read

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/ntfs/filesReparse-c.html

and I get a sickening feeling that at least some of those 61 files may be some of my mp3s!

What do you think?


-CC

[Nil]

On 20 Jul 2012, Mike Rivers <mri...@d-and-d.com> wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> Looking at the metadata, I see that the origial file name is
> in the "Title" field, so I guess that's what's displayed,
> and what needs to be edited if I want a player to show my
> file name rather than the one TASCAM gave it.
>
> Maybe everybody knows this. I just never really fooled
> around with the workings of MP3 files before.

That's not really the inner workings of an MP3, it's the inner workings
of your MP3 recording machine, which stamps that original file name in
the file's metadata. It's a function of the recorder, not anything
inherent in the MP3 format itself.

There are also file tagging programs which can parse the file name and
write various portions of it into the MP3's tags. I use Mp3Tag for
that.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

There's that word "parse" again - that word makes me very nervous considering the plight of my mp3 library!

[Mxsmanic]

thekma...@gmail.com writes:

> Regarding the 61 "reparse records" in stage 2 of 3: I read

>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/ntfs/filesReparse-c.html
>
> and I get a sickening feeling that at least some of those 61 files may be some of my mp3s!
>
> What do you think?

The command-line version of CHKDSK will almost always show "errors" if it is
run against the system drive while the system is running. To avoid this, use
the Explorer version of CHKDSK: right-click on the drive in Explorer, then
Properties | Tools | Check now, and don't check either of the checkboxes. This
version makes allowances for open files on the system drive and will
accurately report only real errors.

[Frank]

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:11:03 -0700 (PDT), in 'rec.audio.pro',

in article <Re: Encoding MP3s to "self destruct": Does such a
technique exist?>,
thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

>There's that word "parse" again - that word makes me very nervous considering the plight of my mp3 library!

Parse is a great word, Chris. Try saying it three times real fast. :)

When you're done, rerun chkdsk with the /F switch, as follows...

chkdsk /F

That will fix the partition's logical errors.

Note that you *may* have to run it two or even three times in order to
catch and fix all of the errors.

Then you can do a surface scan to check for physical errors (chkdsk /R
or whatever it happens to be in your version of Windows; chkdsk /?
should display all of the command's arguments), and since that may
take some time, you might want to start it up right before you retire
for the night, and check the results when you get up.

While I certainly hope that your drive isn't developing surface
problems, running chkdsk with the surface scan option will at least
help to eliminate surface defects as a possible cause of the problem
that you're experiencing.

Good luck!

--

Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY

[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
[also covers AVCHD (including AVCCAM & NXCAM) and XDCAM EX].

[thekma...@gmail.com]

I'm afraid of what it might do to my music files!

:)

[Mxsmanic]

thekma...@gmail.com writes:

> Regarding the 61 "reparse records" in stage 2 of 3: I read
>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/ntfs/filesReparse-c.html
>
> and I get a sickening feeling that at least some of those 61 files may be some of my mp3s!
>
> What do you think?

When you are running chkdsk against the system drive, always run it from
Explorer, not from a command prompt. When you run it from the command prompt
it will almost always find "errors" because files on the system drive are
always in use. The Explorer version allows for this and will tell you if the
volume is truly clean.

Use the Explorer version by right-

[Ron Capik]

On 7/20/2012 8:01 PM, thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm afraid of what it might do to my music files!
>
> :)
>

But you've got them ALL backed up. Right?
==

[Nil]

On 20 Jul 2012, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> When you are running chkdsk against the system drive, always run
> it from Explorer, not from a command prompt. When you run it from
> the command prompt it will almost always find "errors" because
> files on the system drive are always in use. The Explorer version
> allows for this and will tell you if the volume is truly clean.

That has never been my experience. The command-line version shows more
information, but never errors that aren't found otherwise.

Some things might look like errors to you, but they are probably
informational messages such as unused file system journal entries (left
over from past deleted files.) These are not a problem, and can be
reconciled by running CHKDSK /F at boot time. The fact that you can't
fix the errors while Windows is running is due to system files being
open, but the information reported by CHKDSK is not.

[Trevor]

<thekma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:151d79e8-87dd-44fd...@googlegroups.com...
On Friday, July 20, 2012 10:55:25 AM UTC-4, John Williamson wrote:
> I wish I'd been around for reel-to-reel - at least stuff doesn't just
> disappear from those things.

Obviously someone who is unaware of the cost of decent R2R machines, cost of
tape, problems with "sticky shed", tape curl etc. And especially the hassle
in storing, finding, and threading up a tape every time you want to play 1/2
hour, maybe an hour of music before doing it all again.

Give me Wave, FLAC or high bit rate MP3's on a portable hard drive any day.
And I do have *much* experience with R2R unfortunately :-(
And never had any of the problems you describe with digital music files in
over 20 years. Like others have suggested, I never use anything by Apple of
course.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:jubt0t$hej$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> <thekma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>You may be on to something. In just the past hour I purchased
>>replacements=
>> for two mp3s which were cut off(random amounts). After deleting the
>> corru=
>>pt files, I played the songs in Windows Media Player - and here's where it
>>=
>>gets WEIRD:
>
> I hope you made backups of them.
> In fact, if you make daily backups of everything, you won't have to worry
> when files get corrupted, you just reload from backup.


Except when you don't notice the file is corrupted until after the last
backup, and you find out when the restored one is corrupted too. Even
keeping two or three backups on rotation is no guarantee for this problem,
since it might be months before you play a song and find out it's corrupted.
The partial answer is don't use ANY player that wants to stuff with your
song files. Even better mark all the files as read only, at least then you
only have to cope with hard disk problems, not iTunes and WMP stuffing the
files for you. And then when you do have a hard disk problem it's usually
obvious it's time to restore your backup at least.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

<thekma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c663991-8975-4655...@googlegroups.com...
>You guys had it so much better in the vinyl & reel-to-reel days, you just
>don't know it yet.

No, you are just lucky you don't know how much harder and how much more
*expensive* it was!

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Frank" <fr...@nojunkmail.humanvalues.net> wrote in message
news:gaaj08lt2e5njbs2u...@4ax.com...
> I have my tin foil hat handy, but since we're all supposed to be dying

> in late December anyway (something about an expiring calendar),

Just buy another one like you probably do every year, or get a perpetual one
:-)
(I'm not sure the latter will let you live forever unfortunately, but your
death won't have anything to do with the calendar expiring at least :-)

Trevor.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

So?

You my friend don't know what you are dealing with here. The backup of the song will be truncated at exactly the same time it truncates on the iPod and iTunes.

And for everyone's info I'm doing what most people do: Rip/download mp3s, save them into the folder in Windows I use to feed iTunes, and my portable backup drive. I also do everything manually, and have all updating tools set to manual. And I still wake up the next day and Hey Jude is only 3:25 long. smFh! >:(

[thekma...@gmail.com]

As I said repeatedly, the problem I described was taking place even during my drag & drop regular Sandisk mp3 player days, before I even thought about going iPod.

[John Williamson]

thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
<Snip>

> Regarding the 61 "reparse records" in stage 1 of 3: I read
>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/ntfs/filesReparse-c.html
>
> and I get a sickening feeling that at least some of those 61 files may be some of my mp3s!
>
> What do you think?
>

Nope. Reparse points are nothing to do with your data. You did read the
article thoroughly, didn't you? Especially the bit where it says that
reparse points are special files in NTFS where applications store
information *relating to how they use the filing system*?

[Mxsmanic]

thekma...@gmail.com writes:

> And for everyone's info I'm doing what most people do: Rip/download
> mp3s, save them into the folder in Windows I use to feed iTunes, and
> my portable backup drive. I also do everything manually, and have
> all updating tools set to manual. And I still wake up the next day
> and Hey Jude is only 3:25 long. smFh! >:(

The symptoms you describe are not consistent with a hardware failure. It's not
the disk drive (but you should still back everything up).

[Mxsmanic]

Nil writes:

> That has never been my experience. The command-line version shows more
> information, but never errors that aren't found otherwise.

In my experience the command-line version will routinely find errors on an
active drive, and the system drive is always active.

> Some things might look like errors to you, but they are probably
> informational messages such as unused file system journal entries (left
> over from past deleted files.) These are not a problem, and can be
> reconciled by running CHKDSK /F at boot time. The fact that you can't
> fix the errors while Windows is running is due to system files being
> open, but the information reported by CHKDSK is not.

Fine, do whatever you want.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/20/2012 6:34 PM, Nil wrote:

> That's not really the inner workings of an MP3, it's the inner workings
> of your MP3 recording machine, which stamps that original file name in
> the file's metadata. It's a function of the recorder, not anything
> inherent in the MP3 format itself.

Obviously, but it's the MP3 format that allows that, and
it's me (or Sound Forge) that doesn't know enough to edit it
when re-naming files.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/20/2012 8:47 PM, Trevor wrote:

> Obviously someone who is unaware of the cost of decent R2R machines, cost of
> tape, problems with "sticky shed", tape curl etc. And especially the hassle
> in storing, finding, and threading up a tape every time you want to play 1/2
> hour, maybe an hour of music before doing it all again.

Yeah, but it's easier to find a big tape box than a little
flash memory card. And if you have 30,000 music files on
your computer, how are you going to remember the name of the
one you want to play?

Give me a phonograph record, or give me a radio!

[thekma...@gmail.com]

"Like"!!

[John Williamson]

On 21/07/2012 13:46, Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 7/20/2012 8:47 PM, Trevor wrote:
>
>> Obviously someone who is unaware of the cost of decent R2R machines,
>> cost of
>> tape, problems with "sticky shed", tape curl etc. And especially the
>> hassle
>> in storing, finding, and threading up a tape every time you want to
>> play 1/2
>> hour, maybe an hour of music before doing it all again.
>
> Yeah, but it's easier to find a big tape box than a little flash memory
> card. And if you have 30,000 music files on your computer, how are you
> going to remember the name of the one you want to play?
>

Surely the same applies to 30,000 tracks on tape or vinyl, with the
added inconvenience of having to remember which tape the track is on?

Not to mention the way that tapes often get misfiled or put back in the
wrong box. This is a lot harder to do when all your data is on one hard
drive.

Back in the days of vinyl at a disco, I used to have trouble keeping
track of a few hundred tracks, now I use a hard drive and digital
formats, not only can I keep track of a few thousand, they all fit into
my pocket, too.

> Give me a phonograph record, or give me a radio!
>

Would Sir prefer steel or fibre needles? And would Sir prefer one of the
new semiconductor detectors or a cat's whisker? ;-)

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ on which is better and more
convenient.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Whatever format is not subject to cutting songs off in the middle or deleting them entirely is a-ok with me. :)

-ChrisCoaster

[John Williamson]

On 21/07/2012 16:52, thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Whatever format is not subject to cutting songs off in the middle or deleting them entirely is a-ok with me. :)
>

So, that'll be none of the above, then. ;-)

Your problem with mp3 files, as far as I can tell, is very rare, if not
unique. I know many people who use mp3s on a regular basis and never
have any problem with them.

I have known many, many people who have lost or damaged tracks recorded
on all analogue media.

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

> In my experience the command-line version will routinely find
> errors on an active drive, and the system drive is always active.

Depending on what specific messages you're referring to (you don't
specify), they are either informational or real errors you should be
paying attention to. The fact that it's an active drive doesn't make
the error messages incorrect. IOW, CHKDSK doesn't make stuff up just
because it's examining a system or active drive.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Unique? How's this for unique:

http://www.wix.com/support/forum/flash/editor/music-videos-and-documents/why-are-my-mp3s-getting-cut-off

http://www.vistaheads.com/forums/windows-vista-home-premium/185175-end-mp3s-cut-off.html

http://forums.ilounge.com/mac-ipod-discussion-problems/277-mp3-song-cuts-off-while-playing.html

??

[John Williamson]

On 21/07/2012 20:24, thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Unique? How's this for unique:
>
> http://www.wix.com/support/forum/flash/editor/music-videos-and-documents/why-are-my-mp3s-getting-cut-off

A specific problem on a web based demo site. The server software will
not support the bitrate the poster is uploading at. The original files
are not affected in any way. A deliberate decision by the webmaster for
that site.

>
> http://www.vistaheads.com/forums/windows-vista-home-premium/185175-end-mp3s-cut-off.html

Windows Media Player will not play the full length of the file, but the
file is not damaged, and plays normally using other players. A WMP bug.

>
> http://forums.ilounge.com/mac-ipod-discussion-problems/277-mp3-song-cuts-off-while-playing.html
>
A corruption in the indicated file end time occurs when transferring
some files from the computer to the iPod, causing the iPod to only play
part of the song. Again, the original file is undamaged and plays
normally on the computer. An iPod/ iTunes/ Mac OS bug.

All my replies to the above are summaries of the answers posted on the
threads you indicated.

If mp3 problems of the sort you are allegedly experiencing were not
extremely rare, people would find another format to use.

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Unique? How's this for unique:
>
> http://www.wix.com/support/forum/flash/editor/music-videos-and-documents/why-are-my-mp3s-getting-cut-off

This article is about problems uploading files to the web host
"Wix". It has nothing to do with files being physically truncated on
your PC.

> http://www.vistaheads.com/forums/windows-vista-home-premium/185175-end-mp3s-cut-off.html

This article is about someone having a problem with Windows Media
Player not playing their mp3 file all the way to the end. It has
nothing to do with files being physically truncated.

> http://forums.ilounge.com/mac-ipod-discussion-problems/277-mp3-song-cuts-off-while-playing.html

This article is about someone having a problem with iTunes running
on OSX... in 2003. Again, it has nothing to do with files being
physically truncated.

Your whole description of your problem is too vague to address well,
but it seems to be something peculiar to you and your setup, not a
general problem with mp3s. I've been dealing with them for many
years, and I've never encountered or heard of anything like it,
unless there was disk corruption, or if someone was using a really,
really bad encoder. Most of those bad ones disappeared years ago,
and most modern ones work fine.

If you really want to solve this, you need to describe in detail how
you manage to create one of these broken mp3s. Maybe provide a
sample.


By the way, it would help if you would include a quote from the
message you're responding to, so we will know what you're talking
about.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

I replied to John Williamson with those article links. I'm posting via Groups Mobile version.

Folks: I don't know what you're not getting here.

I purchase mp3s from Amazon and save them to the folder that feeds iTunes and to a usb hard drive for backup.
I right-click Save As Target to save a file from BeeMp3(although I will warn you the pickins are getting slim on sites like that.)

Sometimes I have to replace the album art with something that is period-correct, IE the correct album cover for a 1968 Tommy James release.
Or change the genre on this file or another.

Beyond that, I'm not doing anything "strange" to my mp3s!

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nil: I didn't "manage to create" broken anything! You're implying that I'm making this whole thing up.

I have better things to do with my time than to waste others' time with troll-bait. I'm not making this up.

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Nil: I didn't "manage to create" broken anything! You're implying
> that I'm making this whole thing up.

So, you're saying the mp3s you buy are arriving broken? Or, they
mysteriously break at some later time? What percentage of the ones you
have are broken? When did they break? I thought you said earlier that
you make some yourself with Audacity. That's what I was asking about.

I'm not implying that you made it up. I'm implying that there's
something in your process that you're not mentioning that's breaking
them. It rarely if ever happens to anyone else, so that points squarely
to you and/or your system. Mp3 files do not just break on their own for
no reason.

I had never heard of "BeeMp3" before, but it looks like it's a catalog
site pointing to "free" (that is, illicit) mp3s around the internet.
Since those files are probably made by private individuals, the files
are probably poorly done and in many cases might be broken, truncated,
corrupt, or have various other problems. The ones sold by Amazon or
iTunes could also be bad, but they might refund your money if the file
is defective.

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Sometimes I have to replace the album art with something that is
> period-correct, IE the correct album cover for a 1968 Tommy James
> release. Or change the genre on this file or another.

How do you do that? Is the file broken before you do it? Is it broken
after you do it?

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nil: (sighhh) I've spoon fed all of this to you guys in my OP. The mp3s are normal for a while - AFTER I acquired them and fixed things like Genre or cover art - typically under Get info in iTunes.

Then a week, a month, maybe several months later, that 4minute and change Rush song I'd listened to several times before in a classic rock shuffle cuts out about 40 seconds into it! Or that Bee Gees rarity that I *know* I had in my collection since before Obama, is somehow missing - from the iPod, from iTunes, from the PC, AND from my usb backup!! W T F?! Am I going crazy?!?!

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> Nil: (sighhh) I've spoon fed all of this to you guys in my OP.
> The mp3s are normal for a while - AFTER I acquired them and fixed
> things like Genre or cover art - typically under Get info in
> iTunes.

Your posts are hard to read because they don't quote what they're
responding to, so I could easily have missed your "spoon feeding."

> Then a week, a month, maybe several months later, that 4minute and
> change Rush song I'd listened to several times before in a classic
> rock shuffle cuts out about 40 seconds into it! Or that Bee Gees
> rarity that I *know* I had in my collection since before Obama, is
> somehow missing - from the iPod, from iTunes, from the PC, AND
> from my usb backup!! W T F?! Am I going crazy?!?!

Well, I'm out of ideas. I feel sure it's something you're doing either
by accident or not realizing the consequences of your action. It could
also be that you're suffering from system problems and/or hard disk
corruption. I'm not there to look over your shoulder, so I can't pin it
down any closer. In any case, it's not common behavior and it seems to
be peculiar to your own system and/or methods.

Good luck.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nil: I already described my methods, and my system(if by system you mean what I run) is a bread & butter HP Pavilion with Windows Vista SP2 and 3 gigs of RAM. My iTunes, as well as my Norton360, is up to date.

I'm a straight shooter, and I've(repeatedly) explained everything that goes on up to the truncation or disappearance of mp3 files. My system is very healthy and no other file types - spreadsheets, powerpt slideshows, videos, word documents, whatever, have experienced any sort of compromise or have disappeared from any folders or drives.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Addendum:

And I'm NOT alone - http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/111772/itunes-suddenly-cutting-of-songs !

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Addendum to my addendum:

And these guys: http://productforums.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/apps/6UMXl2i7Gbg DIFFERENT platform - SAME f___king PROBLEM! So don't anybody nitpick it apart here.

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

OK, you found one other person with a similar symptom, except that
they run iTunes on a Mac. That doesn't indicate a widespread problem
with mp3s to me. Maybe a rare isolated problem with iTunes.

> And these guys:
> http://productforums.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/apps/6UMXl2i7Gbg
> DIFFERENT platform - SAME f___king PROBLEM! So don't anybody
> nitpick it apart here.

This is NOT the same problem, f___king or otherwise, that you have been
describing. "These guys" have trouble uploading files to the Google
Music cloud site. It has nothing at all to do with corrupt files on
their computer.

Face it, you have a problem, and that problem is not the mp3 file
format itself.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nil:

So we need to find out why 5min long song "ABC", after being played for a matter of weeks or months on both my iPod and on my PC(via WMP, WinAmp, whatever), is suddenly truncated to 47 seconds in all physical locations(the forementioned iPod, the computer, and the external usb harddrive) SIMULTANEOUSLY. It may not have anything to do with it being in MP3 format, who knows.

[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" <mri...@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:jue8ba$bt8$2...@dont-email.me...

>> Obviously someone who is unaware of the cost of decent R2R machines, cost
>> of
>> tape, problems with "sticky shed", tape curl etc. And especially the
>> hassle
>> in storing, finding, and threading up a tape every time you want to play
>> 1/2
>> hour, maybe an hour of music before doing it all again.
>
> Yeah, but it's easier to find a big tape box than a little flash memory
> card.

Easier to find one hard drive than one tape box amongst thousands.
Somewhat easier to store as well!!! :-)

>And if you have 30,000 music files on your computer, how are you going to
>remember the name of the one you want to play?

If you can't remember the name of the song you want to play, how the hell
are you going to find it somewhere on one of a thousand tapes. And I find it
*far* easier to catalog my digital files for instant searches on song name,
artist name, or a dozen other tag options.
Now lets talk about access time to one song on tape Vs hard drive, or maybe
let's not!

> Give me a phonograph record, or give me a radio!

You are welcome to them! Luddites are not new after all.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

<thekma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec146a35-88dd-4592...@googlegroups.com...

> Whatever format is not subject to cutting songs off in the middle or
> deleting them entirely is a-ok with me. :)

So any of them used properly and at least *some* care then.

Trevor.

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> So we need to find out why 5min long song "ABC", after being
> played for a matter of weeks or months on both my iPod and on my
> PC(via WMP, WinAmp, whatever), is suddenly truncated to 47 seconds
> in all physical locations(the forementioned iPod, the computer,
> and the external usb harddrive) SIMULTANEOUSLY.

I say that your files became corrupt on your computer. You then backed
them up on your other media, so that's all you have now. Either that or
or the next most likely possibility: aliens ate them.

I think you should check the integrity of your disk.

I think you should use something other than iTunes and Windows Media
Player.

I have no more suggestions to offer.

> It may not have anything to do with it being in MP3 format,
> who knows.

I know: it doesn't. Mp3s have no more tendency to spontaneously combust
than any other file.

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Nil:

If it was disk integrity(put on the Spock ears and try to process this logically), then files of the other types(non-music) I mentioned would also be compromised!!

Internet Explorer, MS Word, Planetarium, and other programs on my PC would start to run poorly or crash, and ultimately the OS would fail to run properly or even load up at all. For 5 years and two hard drives NONE of those nightmare scenarios has actually played out on my machine!! Do you get it??

It can't be disk integrity because only my MUSIC files seem to be affected!! Picture this: At 2pm tomorrow, three identical 2010 blue Nissan Altimas in three separate countries will stall and require a tow to a repair site. THAT is what is happening with copies of my songs!!!!!!

[thekma...@gmail.com]

[Nil]

On 21 Jul 2012, thekma...@gmail.com wrote in rec.audio.pro:

> If it was disk integrity(put on the Spock ears and try to process
> this logically), then files of the other types(non-music) I
> mentioned would also be compromised!!

You're right. It was obviously the aliens.

[John Williamson]

On 22/07/2012 02:55, thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Addendum to my addendum:
>
> And these guys: http://productforums.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/apps/6UMXl2i7Gbg DIFFERENT platform - SAME f___king PROBLEM! So don't anybody nitpick it apart here.

The problem here is a corrupted upload to a web based service. The
original files are not affected.

All the problems you claim that others are having are due to either bugs
in the playback software or corruption occurring during file transfers
from one device to another. The original file is invariably unaffected.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by referring to these
problems, which do not fit the description you give of your problem.

[John Williamson]

I agree. PEBCAK.

[geoff]

thekma...@gmail.com wrote:
> Amazon, iTunes, BeeMP3, plus rips from my CDs, and stuff
> recorded/produced in Audacity.

Your flash-memory device dying ?

geoff

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Fine Jon: Blame the user.

I appreciated the help here so far but not it is turning sarcastic. Just because you tech types are faced with a problem you've never encountered before you try to blame it on something the user is doing.

I've given you guys everything: A description of the problem, the environment, cites to other folks having SIMILAR if not the exact same circumstances, but the SAME outcome: songs being shortened randomly.

So no one - on here, at Apple, or MS - knows why it's happening. A regular Amelia frikn Earhart case! I guess for some of us it's just going to be a digital fact of life....

[geoff]

thekma...@gmail.com wrote:

> Well I'm plowing through my collection(still less than 1/3 finished)
> with the mp3Val application. What's scary is the file reported size
> drops on a lot of the repairs indicating some of my mp3s had some
> really nasty baggage attached to them!


What's scary is the concept of an 'MP3 collection. Yuk !

geoff