How to fix problem with low output on Alesis Nanoverb

[brassplyer]

I strongly suspect something is wrong with the output level on an
Alesis Nanoverb. Even with the input set just a hair under clipping
and the output at full throttle, I get low output gain, never comes
anywhere near full scale. The sound that's there is good but I think
something is crippled. I tried using it in the insert jack of my
preamp and it's still low.

If memory serves, I had issues with it years ago but then got into
using software reverb and never really delved into the problem
further. I'd like to try using it again and wondering if there's a
relatively simply fix for this. Anyone have similar issues with this
unit and fixed it or think they know what the problem is anyway? I
don't mind brandishing a soldering iron. Yeah, I could get another one
but want to see if I can fix this one.

Thanks.

[Gareth Magennis]

"brassplyer" <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b5d81d97-eb5b-4e46...@o7g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

First thing I would look for is bad output caps - see if there are any
electrolytics near the output sockets that look a little dodgy.

Second would be to look for output mute FET's in the same area. (Possibly
marked J113 or similar). You could just snip these off.

Thirdly, if it sounds good, and both sides are the same level, there might
not actually be anything wrong with it at all.



Gareth.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/8/2012 7:00 PM, brassplyer wrote:
> I strongly suspect something is wrong with the output level on an
> Alesis Nanoverb. Even with the input set just a hair under clipping
> and the output at full throttle, I get low output gain, never comes
> anywhere near full scale.

What's your frame of reference? The maximum output level of
the NanoReverb is +17.5 dBu. If you're connecting it to an
analog input to a digital interface that takes +24 dBu going
in in order to reach full scale, even -6 dBFS can look
pretty wimpy on most digital meters.

Does it sound OK?

Consider me impressed that this little, inexpensive unit has
a 30 page instruction manual that's all pretty useful! What
happened to those days?


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[brassplyer]

On Jul 9, 9:25 am, Mike Rivers <mriv...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> On 7/8/2012 7:00 PM, brassplyer wrote:
>
> > I strongly suspect something is wrong with the output level on an
> > Alesis Nanoverb. Even with the input set just a hair under clipping
> > and the output at full throttle, I get low output gain, never comes
> > anywhere near full scale.
>
> What's your frame of reference? The maximum output level of
> the NanoReverb is +17.5 dBu. If you're connecting it to an
> analog input to a digital interface that takes +24 dBu going
> in in order to reach full scale, even -6 dBFS can look
> pretty wimpy on most digital meters.
>
> Does it sound OK?

It sounds okay, it doesn't put out enough gain. What I'm getting can't
be right. Surely it should be able to put out enough gain to clip and
without having to max out the output, to allow discretion as to what
level I want to record.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/11/2012 9:42 PM, brassplyer wrote:

> What I'm getting can't
> be right. Surely it should be able to put out enough gain to clip and
> without having to max out the output, to allow discretion as to what
> level I want to record.

The world isn't always as we think it should be. When you're
trying to interface two pieces of audio gear that were built
more than 10 years apart you may have to accept some
compromises. There weren't any standards then, and there
really aren't any now, so there's nothing you can count on
but the specs. And I gave you some of those that indicate
that the reverb won't put out enough voltage to clip a
modern input.

Of course it's also possible that it's not working right, or
that you have it hooked up wrong. Got enough money to hire a
consultant? This problem is beyond mind reading. ;)

[Les Cargill]

They were not very high output. You'll need to add gain. If there's
a mixer in use, just use a couple strips of the mixer. If not,
well...

I remember 1) setting the input trim to max ( any more and it
would blink the light red ) and 2) cranking the output all the
way up, and it would still represent a loss in gain when used with
another Alesis product ( a QS8 synth ).

You can always just get an impulse response from it and use
convolution plugins :)

--
Les Cargill

[swanny]

On 9/07/2012 9:00 AM, brassplyer wrote:
> I strongly suspect something is wrong with the output level on an
> Alesis Nanoverb. Even with the input set just a hair under clipping
> and the output at full throttle, I get low output gain, never comes
> anywhere near full scale. The sound that's there is good but I think
> something is crippled. I tried using it in the insert jack of my
> preamp and it's still low.

Sounds like it might be a -10dBu piece of kit, and you want a +4dBu
signal for the mixer input. I don't have a circuit for the output stage
of this device, but it may be possible to modify to increase the output
level. Do you have photos or circuits for the output drive section?

[brassplyer]

On Jul 11, 9:54 pm, Mike Rivers <mriv...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> On 7/11/2012 9:42 PM, brassplyer wrote:
>
> > What I'm getting can't
> > be right. Surely it should be able to put out enough gain to clip and
> > without having to max out the output, to allow discretion as to what
> > level I want to record.
>
> The world isn't always as we think it should be. When you're
> trying to interface two pieces of audio gear that were built
> more than 10 years apart you may have to accept some
> compromises. There weren't any standards then, and there
> really aren't any now, so there's nothing you can count on
> but the specs. And I gave you some of those that indicate
> that the reverb won't put out enough voltage to clip a
> modern input.

Just not buying that it has anything to do with some disparity in the
era in which it was made. The Nanocompressor that I got around the
same time puts out a plenty hot signal. The M-Audio 2496 I have it
going into isn't a new unit either. The 2496 otherwise interfaces just
fine with the Studio Projects VTB-1 pre - which has also been around
for a while.

I checked, it's set on the "consumer" setting within the mixer which
must be the +4 since it specifies -10 as "professional".

[brassplyer]

On Jul 12, 12:51 am, brassplyer <brasspl...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I checked, it's set on the "consumer" setting within the mixer which
> must be the +4 since it specifies -10 as "professional".

Got that backwards...

[Meindert Sprang]

"brassplyer" <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:99ce9940-464f-475b...@h9g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

Let me throw in some common sense: most effect boxes have an overall fixed
gain of 1 (0dB) or a knob that lets you vary the gain between for
instance -10dB to +10dB. If you have this knob, set it to 0, if you don't,
you may assume the overall gain of the unit is 1 (or 0dB). That means if you
add this unit in the signal path, the signal should have the same amplitude.
If it is much weaker, it's safe to assume the unit is broken (assuming you
have all the cabling correct).

Meindert

[Frank Stearns]

True, and likely a good test, though it might not work all that well in the sense of
+4 balanced in becomes -10 unbalanced out, and there isn't the drive/Z/I to
maintain that +4 path.

An effective jump down in operating level from +4 to -10 might seem indeed like the
unit is broken when in fact it might not be.

Perhaps I missed it, but how was the OP (BASSPLAYER?) using this box?

1. As an effects field to have signal from a send bus routed to it, then with the
output brought back in on extra inputs to the mix,

or

2. As an in-line, "through" device on the mix bus where local to the device a
wet/dry knob is turned to get the amount of desired effect.

#2 would be a pain if there was a level mis-match (a -10 device didn't
deliver +4 in a +4 world).

And, #2 would scare the crap out of me with all but the very best hardware, given
that EVERYTHING is going through the box. For better or worse, you not only get the
FX of the box, you also get its "sound" just by passing everything through it.
Probably okay with a Manley or Massenburg product; maybe not as much with an Alesis
reverb.

As an old-school guy, #1 has always been the norm for a long list of reasons, yet
the number of times I see #2 in use startles me. Even more surprising has been the
blank look I get when describing a send/return scenario with an FX field.
Particularly with ITB mixing, I see a lot of folks doing "through" FX processing
channel-to-channel when a send/return field would make more sense.

If you like the sound of the thing, you might find it works fine as a send/return
device, given that you rarely want 100% (full wet) reverb on the entire mix anyway,
so it need not drive that hard.

If you have not tried this, it's easy to set up; assign a send bus to the box, set
the local FX wet/dry knob on the box to full wet (100%). Set the gain on the FX box
to unity (just to keep it happy), then channel to channel open send levels as
desired (now that you have this kind of control, you might not want to apply the FX
to evrything).

You can also condition the send to keep things cleaner and make the box less likely
to crap out, such as applying a hefty amount of high pass. (Generally, you don't
need or want to reverb stuff below 1-300 Hz; depends on mix needs. You can also EQ
FX send/return to taste without whacking the main mix signal.)

If you really need to, you can goose the gain on the inputs taking the return, but
beware of noise. Try a little hotter send first; just be alert to clipping something
along the way.

Hope that helps,

Frank
Mobile Audio

--
.

[Scott Dorsey]

brassplyer <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>It sounds okay, it doesn't put out enough gain. What I'm getting can't
>be right. Surely it should be able to put out enough gain to clip and
>without having to max out the output, to allow discretion as to what
>level I want to record.

It's a Nanoverb, it's not real equipment. If you have to plug it into
a normal +4 input, try using a bump box.

If you're getting the same levels on both channels, and the signal light
is coming on at about the right point, my suspicion is that it's no more
broken than it was when it was made. It was pretty broken when it was made.

But, if you're worried, get out the scope and look at the output stage.

Oh... also... I think the outputs on these are actually semibalanced, with
only one leg driven. If you plug them into an unbalanced input you need
to make sure the driven leg is going into the input otherwise you will
get zero or little output.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

brassplyer <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Just not buying that it has anything to do with some disparity in the
>era in which it was made. The Nanocompressor that I got around the
>same time puts out a plenty hot signal. The M-Audio 2496 I have it
>going into isn't a new unit either. The 2496 otherwise interfaces just
>fine with the Studio Projects VTB-1 pre - which has also been around
>for a while.

It's not the era that it was made, it's just the fact that it's absolute
garbage. What did you WANT for a $99 reverb unit?

>I checked, it's set on the "consumer" setting within the mixer which
>must be the +4 since it specifies -10 as "professional".

Huh?

[hank alrich]

You didn't actually answer the very pertinent question Mike asked. If
you'll do that light will shine into the technical darkness.

There's no "surely" about any of this without reference points. That's
what Mike's after here.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Steve King]

"Frank Stearns" <franks.pa...@pacifier.net> wrote in message
news:YoqdnQgQxo0ITWPS...@posted.palinacquisition...

I have a Nanoverb sitting in my rack. Haven't used it in years, although
the little red light has been on since I installed it. I just patched it
in: Aux buss 2 to Nanoverb; Nanoverb out to Aux 2 Return to the mix buss.
Input about 2 o'clock. Output about 1 o'clock. Mix full clockwise...full
effects/no original signal. Plenty of level for this. The specs say that
the output impedence is 500 ohms. Funny thing. All effects (halls, plates,
choruses, flange, delay) sound the same. What's with that? Since I haven't
used it in years, I probably won't open it up any time soon to see what's
what;-)

Steve King

[hank alrich]

Further, unless he determines it IS broken, there is no point in
worrying about this level discrepancy. It has whatever dynamic range it
has, period, regardless of level seen at the input of the following
device, and adding a bump box will probably not offer any signal
improvement over adding gain in the digital realm after the Nanoverb's
magic has reached its intended destination.

[Richard Webb]

On Thu 2012-Jul-12 10:45, Scott Dorsey writes:
<snip>

> If you're getting the same levels on both channels, and the signal
> light is coming on at about the right point, my suspicion is that
> it's no more broken than it was when it was made. It was pretty
> broken when it was made.

<rotfl> Yeah, especially in light of the below, which I'm
betting is this guy's problem.

<snip>

> Oh... also... I think the outputs on these are actually
> semibalanced, with only one leg driven. If you plug them into an
> unbalanced input you need to make sure the driven leg is going into
> the input otherwise you will get zero or little output.

I believe they are, which can always makes me shake my head
with the nubmer of folks who are using Alesis gear with
other mi stuff where they're running unbalanced inserts and
effects loops.

But, even though I may use an aux send for such an effect,
I often like to bring it back in on a spare channel strip
just to have some more control of it.



Regards,
Richard
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet<->Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/12/2012 11:28 AM, hank alrich wrote:

> Further, unless he determines it IS broken, there is no point in
> worrying about this level discrepancy. It has whatever dynamic range it
> has, period

It seems that the owner simply cannot believe that it
doesn't match up perfectly with his gear that was made after
"+4" became the standard level, along with low gain inputs
so there'd be at least 20 dB of headroom (that not all
sources can fill).

No hope for the non-believers. ;)

[Gareth Magennis]

"brassplyer" <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:b5d81d97-eb5b-4e46...@o7g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

Here is the user manual:

http://www.srtalumni.com/SRT_Manuals/Alesis_Nanoverb_Reverb.pdf

Goto page 12.


The two inputs are normalised.
If this normalisation is faulty, such that a mono left input is NOT routed
to the right input, there might then be a 3dB loss of output.
Cleaning the right jack input with switch cleaner will probably sort that
one out.

At the bottom of page 12 it is clearly states that all ins and outs are
unbalanced, so any loss of level can't be due to being "one legged" as
previously suggested here.




Gareth.

[Dave M.]

Brass,

Can't trouble shoot over the internet. You can download the service
manual here:

http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.de/datenblaetter/375000-399999/376841-sp-01-en-Alexis_Digital_Effekt_Prozessor.pdf

A scope and signal generator might be nice.

Dave M.

[swanny]

On 13/07/2012 12:47 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> brassplyer <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Just not buying that it has anything to do with some disparity in the
>> era in which it was made. The Nanocompressor that I got around the
>> same time puts out a plenty hot signal. The M-Audio 2496 I have it
>> going into isn't a new unit either. The 2496 otherwise interfaces just
>> fine with the Studio Projects VTB-1 pre - which has also been around
>> for a while.
>
> It's not the era that it was made, it's just the fact that it's absolute
> garbage. What did you WANT for a $99 reverb unit?
>

> --scott
>

You're right. Having now looked at the circuit, it's a piece of rubbish.
The output driver section is complete garbage.

[Gareth Magennis]

"swanny" <swa...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:aN0Mr.393$Oq4...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...

Would you care to elaborate on that?


Cheers,


Gareth.

[Steve King]

"Dave M." <mart...@frontier.com> wrote in message
news:jtpi1e$df1$1...@dont-email.me...

Thanks for the link. When I patched in my long powered up but long dormant
Nanoverb, the effects knob had no effect. Found out from the service manual
that there's a bug that causes this to happen, when the unit is powered up
in Plate 1 position. Re-powered it. Works normally now. It's crap reverb
for music, but I'd forgot how much they put into that $99 box, that I
probably paid less than half of that at a Hamfest long ago.

Steve King