How did they create that sound on "Mercy Mercy Me"?
brassplyer
"ponk" that sort of sounds like a sonar ping or something. Anyone know
how that sound was created? Seems I may have heard it on other songs
as well.
Nil
rec.audio.pro:
I think it's a woodblock with a ton of reverb.
axolotl
This was discussed at length in the "Whatever Works" forum at
Prosoundweb. Terry Manning, one of the moderators, had the advantage of
a copy of the 16 track master.
An archive search will get you there.
Kevin Gallimore
Gareth Magennis
"axolotl" <munge...@shorecomp.com> wrote in message
news:in85sg$7eq$1...@dont-email.me...
Shame you couldn't be bothered to post a link.
I've just spent ages trying to find it and have given up.
axolotl
<http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/259729/0/?srch=marvin+gaye+mercy#msg_259729>
Kevin Gallimore
Nil
wrote in rec.audio.pro:
> Shame you couldn't be bothered to post a link.
>
> I've just spent ages trying to find it and have given up.
I flopped around for a while and eventually found the forum (I
think)...
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/34/0/
I have a multi-track version of this song that I acquired somewhere on
the 'net. This sound isn't on it!
I still think it's a wood block.
Gareth Magennis
"axolotl" <munge...@shorecomp.com> wrote in message
news:in8btu$q0m$1...@dont-email.me...
Thank you Kevin. :-)
brassplyer
> This was discussed at length in the "Whatever Works" forum at
> Prosoundweb. Terry Manning, one of the moderators, had the advantage of
> a copy of the 16 track master.
> An archive search will get you there.
I finally found the thread after much hunting around, I didn't see
where anyone gave a definitive answer as to what the sound was, lots
of speculation - wood block, muted cowbell, a "Chamberlin" sound.
So I still don't know the definitive answer to the question however I
did A) become aware of what's obviously an excellent recording forum
and B) became aware of a gizmo - the Chamberlin tape loop machine -
that I hadn't been aware of before.
Thanks for the tip!
Mike Rivers
> I didn't see
> where anyone gave a definitive answer as to what the sound was, lots
> of speculation - wood block, muted cowbell, a "Chamberlin" sound.
>
> So I still don't know the definitive answer to the question
There's only one way to find out for sure, and that's to
find someone who was on the session who has a good memory.
But if you're trying to approximate that sound, you can
certainly try all the suggestions that have been made.
--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson
http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff
brassplyer
> There's only one way to find out for sure, and that's to
> find someone who was on the session who has a good memory.
> But if you're trying to approximate that sound, you can
> certainly try all the suggestions that have been made.
Wasn't really looking to emulate it - though who knows maybe I might
someday. It's just a curiosity I've had for a while that I've been
meaning to ask about.
John Williamson
A woodblock, with a fairly distant microphone, and loads of plate echo
should come close.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
dav19...@is.invalid
I am not familiar off the top of my head with the sound you are
referring to, but it wouldn't be a vibraslap would it?
Google: vibraslap
and see if that makes the sound you seek.
Dave
dav19...@is.invalid
alex
brassplyer
> do you mean the one acting as "snare" drum in the pattern?
Here, that haunting, echoing "ponk" sound. I've heard it described as
sounding like a racquetball caroming off a wall. Doesn't sound at all
like a snare.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/11/1809238//Mercy_pong.mp3
brassplyer
> Here's a good link to the vibraslap sound:
>
> http://www.ehow.com/video_2371973_use-vibraslap.html
No, definitely not that.
alex
a snare.
Listening to the song appear to me that:
1) the "sound" is doubling the snare, but sometimes disappear leaving
the snare alone (at the beginning of the brass section part), or...
2) is just the big reverb (that seems to me a well produced gated spring
reverb) that sometimes disappear (probably because the snare hits being
too weak to open the gate?).
3) is something else controlled by the snare used as key. (like a gated
ambience mic heavily compressed?)
hope it helps...
John Williamson
After fiddling for a minute or two.
Start with a Microsoft Wavetable synth woodblock
Add a shedload of vocal plate reverb in Cubase.
It won't be how it was done in the studio, but it's fairly close.
In the studio, it would have been a proper woodblock, mic'd up a couple
of feet away, then fed in to the studio's plate reverb, with a bit of EQ
to modify the sound.
Don P.
I just happen to have a copy of the 16-track. Let's take a look (Listen?).
There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the kick, track 2 is the
rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4 is woodblock (with some
alternate celeste in it).
Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the snare. Stick
that thru a plate and there's your sound.
Incidentally, there's lots of electric guitar bleed, some bass bleed, and a
little bit of piano bleed on the conga track. Interesting stuff.
brassplyer
> I just happen to have a copy of the 16-track. Let's take a look (Listen?).
> There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the kick, track 2 is the
> rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4 is woodblock (with some
> alternate celeste in it).
>
> Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the snare. Stick
> that thru a plate and there's your sound.
Hmm... Given the pitch and overall timbre of the root sound I have a
hard time believing that's a conga. It definitely sounds like
something hard being struck rather than a drum head of any sort. Wood
block struck with something like a timpani mallet or something?
Of course if someone wants to demonstrate that sound can be reproduced
with a conga and the kind of fx available at the time I'm open to be
convinced.
Nil
rec.audio.pro:
> I just happen to have a copy of the 16-track. Let's take a look
> (Listen?). There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the
> kick, track 2 is the rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4
> is woodblock (with some alternate celeste in it).
>
> Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the
> snare. Stick that thru a plate and there's your sound.
I have that, too, but I don't think the conga track is what's making
the "racquetball"/ping sound. I can hear the conga track buried inside
the final mix - the ping sounds like a discreet track, and isn't
included in the 16-track version that's going around.
0jun...@bellsouth.net
On 2011-04-03 redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net said:
<snip>
>> (Listen?). There's 4 tracks of drums/percussion. Track 1 is the
>> kick, track 2 is the rest of the kit, track 3 is congas, track 4
>> is woodblock (with some alternate celeste in it).
>> Track 3 has a nice hi conga slap in it that corresponds to the
>> snare. Stick that thru a plate and there's your sound.
>I have that, too, but I don't think the conga track is what's making
>the "racquetball"/ping sound. I can hear the conga track buried
>inside the final mix - the ping sounds like a discreet track, and
>isn't included in the 16-track version that's going around.
Maybe because it was created on the fly at mixdown. I can
see this one easy enough.
Conga drum, slapped on beat 2 & 4 as snare. send signal to
a gate, or human act as "gate" on the console while mixing,
capture that near the rim conga hit via a nice verb, etc.
And, unless you were at the sessions you don't know if 16
was all the tracks recorded, or there weren't more <g>.
Just $0.02 worth from the peanut gallery here.
Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com
Don P.
I went back and listened to both the multitrack and the final mix. I can
get close to what they did in the mix if I pan the conga track hard left,
EQ it really badly to bring out the high slap, and send it thru a plate.
Gotta keep turning the reverb send up and down on the conga slap to keep
the whole track from swimming, so they were most likely gating the reverb
send to only let the "ping" get through.
I thought it might have also been the woodblock, so I tried that, but its
pitch is higher than the ping, and it's not there in the beginning.
Mind you, my reverb return is stereo, and their plate is mono. (goes back
to return pan pots)
That sounds about right. Pan the reverb return slightly to the right.
The other problem is my plate reverb isn't a plate, but is a Behringer V-
Verb Pro (a.k.a. REV2496) plate. Tried it through a Lexicon "plate", but
that was really bright.
Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix. That
would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit from the
track. Who knows?
Nil
> I went back and listened to both the multitrack and the final mix.
> I can get close to what they did in the mix if I pan the conga
> track hard left, EQ it really badly to bring out the high slap,
> and send it thru a plate. Gotta keep turning the reverb send up
> and down on the conga slap to keep the whole track from swimming,
> so they were most likely gating the reverb send to only let the
> "ping" get through.
Thing is, though, that the conga track is quite busy - I think there
are at least two conga players playing simultaneously. I think it would
be difficult or impossible to EQ the track so that you couldn't hear
the other drum beats but the ones on 2 and 4, which are so forward in
the final mix. I think you'd still hear traces of the the other conga
hits, especially with that big bright reverb.
Maybe it is a high-pitched conga, since they obviously had them there
at the session. It could have added later.
> Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix.
> That would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit
> from the track. Who knows?
That's what I'm thinking.
brassplyer
> I thought it might have also been the woodblock, so I tried that, but its
> pitch is higher than the ping, and it's not there in the beginning.
Wood blocks come in various pitches.
sTeeVee
Either a conga tuned very high or a bongo - definitely something with
a head on it. If you've ever played hand percussion in a studio
environment, I think you'd agree immediately that this is a drum, and
not a wood block, temple block, cowbell or other. Another poster was
quite right - there is more than 1 Marvin Gaye with this very creative
"substution of a snare on the 2 and 4" used.
Went nuts for it when I first heard it in my late teens...like Voyage
to the Bottom of the Sea meets Motown.
sgo...@changethisparttohardbat.com
answering your question. After listening several times, I really
can't say! Pretty clever, really. I tend to agree with other
posters that it could be a heavily processed conga or bongo slap.
Or it could be another kind of drum, maybe a dumbek. But that
is honestly just a guess -- it could be a household item.
brassplyer <brass...@yahoo.com> wrote:
: On Marvin Gaye's cut "Mercy Mercy Me" there's this repetitive echoing
dav19...@is.invalid
That's a cow bell. Sounds like it's miked with filtering and struck
with a yarn mallet rather then a wood stick.
Dave
Steve King
news:lokpp6dt4utvsk4kr...@4ax.com...
That's what I've been thinking. I had a producer client that used to use a
cloth glove. He stuck his gloved hand inside the cow bell to dampen the ring
or just pinched the edge depending on the effect he wanted.
Steve King
dav19...@is.invalid
I have listened to a couple of more times. It might also be a special
studio rig created by some tinkerer. I might be a cowbell bolted in
some way to a temple block. It does have a sort of woody sound to it
also, as well as the attack and decay of a cowbell stuck with a yarn
mallet. It's a very famous disco era sample however they did it.
Dave
philicorda
<snip>
> The other problem is my plate reverb isn't a plate, but is a Behringer
> V- Verb Pro (a.k.a. REV2496) plate. Tried it through a Lexicon "plate",
> but that was really bright.
>
> Or someone could have been playing something live during the mix. That
> would have been easier than trying to isolate the single hit from the
> track. Who knows?
The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.
Don P.
>
> The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return.
> Put a band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type.
> It doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.
>
Or just de-tune the plate :-)
Steve King
news:BJpnp.8323$cx....@newsfe24.ams2...
Did you have in mind any analogue EQs of the time that are capable of what
you describe?
Steve King
Steve King
news:Xns9EC0AABC...@216.196.97.142...
The idea of detuning an EMT plate for a single effect just boggles my
mind;-)
Steve King
Scott Dorsey
That album was what, 1970?
If I had to do it today I'd use an Orban 622 which was a few years later.
When did the ITI come out?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Scott Dorsey
Just send the intern in to do it.
Steve King
news:innafb$ejb$1...@panix2.panix.com...
Could have been the ITI. Mix magazine has Massenburg using the EQ in 1967.
An EQ module was shown at AES in 1971. Interesting story here:
http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/massenburg-parametric-equalizer-090106/
Steve King
Steve King
If the intern doesn't break a few clips it isn't tight enough.
Steve King
philicorda
<snip>
>> The 'ping' sound was made by heavily eqing the reverb return. Put a
>> band pass after the reverb, preferably a steep synth filter type. It
>> doesn't really matter too much what the played sound source is.
>
> Did you have in mind any analogue EQs of the time that are capable of
> what you describe?
Things like the Moog 914 filter bank were around by that time.
What was more common is a passive high/low pass. I have seen in pictures
of old studios a passive high/low pass filter, in a rack with two big
knobs on the front. I can't remember which companies made them, but I
think they date back to the 50's. I don't think it was Pultec, but rather
folk like Eckmiller, Neumann or Siemens.
>
> Steve King
Steve King
Pultec did make a high-low pass filter. Very popular through the 70s. So
did a few others.
Steve King
Scott Dorsey
>
>What was more common is a passive high/low pass. I have seen in pictures
>of old studios a passive high/low pass filter, in a rack with two big
>knobs on the front. I can't remember which companies made them, but I
>think they date back to the 50's. I don't think it was Pultec, but rather
>folk like Eckmiller, Neumann or Siemens.
Everybody made them. Pultec made them, Cinema Engineering made them,
White made them, studios made their one one-offs using surplus magnetics
and vertical sweep coils from TV sets. Most of them were at most second
order filters but of course you could chain them if you were insane.
hank alrich
And whip them if they misbehaved.
--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidriAlrichwithDougHarman
hank alrich
There are modern recreations of those, too.
For example: http://www.retroinstruments.com/2a3.html
Brent Barkley
I can't believe I'm going to say this--I've always been on team woodblock. But I was just listening to Mercy Mercy Me and let the rest of the album keep playing afterwards, and I believe we are given a hell of a hint with the track, Inner City Blues.
You can hear it in the intro and particularly in the last 25 seconds during the outro of Inner City Blues. Congas panned left, 100% wet verb panned right. Not nearly as much decay/gate as Mercy Mercy me, but the pitch is the exact same pitch of the sound in Mercy Mercy Me.
For me this settles it. Whatever that drum is (sounds conga to me but could be bongos), that's what makes the sound in Mercy Mercy Me, and for me no question they recorded a separate track post mixdown (since it's not in the original 16 according to posters on here) and added that gated verb to perfection a single hit on that drum on the 2 and 4.
Sadly, I believe I've read elsewhere that nobody is still alive from those sessions, and honestly it might have been done so post that even the original musicians there wouldn't have been present for it. Thank god it's there though. Whoever's idea it was, it makes the track for me.
