Dimmer buzz in guitar amp (sorry, long)
Rob Adelman
system in my new studio. After hooking up all the equipment with the
star grounding system, everything turned out to be working very quietly.
With the exception of my guitar and amp. I have track lighting, and
initially I had low voltage lights on them and a cheap dimmer. Guitar
amp buzzing, and even worse with my guitar with single coil pick ups. So
the guy at the lighting store has been talking to the engineers at
Lumitron to try to solve my problem. I ended up buying some very
expensive dimmers designed especially for low voltage lights. (about 80
bucks a piece). This actually helped but did not eliminate the buzz. The
dimmers do work and feel better though. So next I decided it must be the
transformers, the low voltage lights have a transformer on every light.
So I ordered some standard lights and they finally came in and I
exchanged the low voltage lights for them. Last night I plugged in the
guitar. Still buzzing, grrr. So it wasn't the transformers, it is the
dimmers themselves which apparently are on the same circuit as the rest
of the equipment. When you slide the dimmers up and down the buzz
changes, very odd sounding effect.
Now here is the strange part. When I make solid contact with my fingers
on the strings, the buzz disappears. So, I took a wire and attached it
on the ground of the guitar cord and hooked the other to my body
(actually hooked it over my underwear so it would make good contact with
my skin :) and this does eliminate the buzz. However this is a bit
uncomfortable <g>. So why does grounding the guitar to my body get rid
of the buzz and what other alternatives do I have?
-Rob
Ethan Winer
Solid state dimmers are best avoided around audio equipment. I have variable
transformers throughout my home, and they dim all my lights silently. If you
want to read more about this issue, go to my Articles page:
www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html
Then find "Kill studio hum and buzz" at the top of the list.
--Ethan
rocksteady
wrote:
> what other alternatives do I have?
Buy a couple of lamps and turn off the dimmers when you are recording
guitar?
Al
tim
"Rob Adelman" <rade...@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3E0F288D...@mn.rr.com...
change to low voltage transformerless lighting powered by a varable DC
supply.
remove solid state dimmers and install a VARIAC.
add additional filtering after the solid state dimmers (this will usuly
reduce but not totaly eliminate the buzz).
adding a buz filter to the AMP may help as well.
these filters are made by winding wire (no smaller gage then the existing
wires (i.e. 14 ga for lighting) around ferrous cores to make choke coils.
they are shunted by capacitors, typically .2 to 2 mFd. allowance need to be
made for some heat dissipation. this is not a good project for a novice
though. improper construction techniques present a risk of fire or shock
hazard.
the type of solid state lamp dimmers that mount in a wall box should only be
utilized if the wall box is metal. the active components are mounted to the
metal plate which it used to dissipate heat build up. mounting to a new type
plastic box will make the dimmer tend to burn up, possibly starting a fire.
(read the warnings that come with the dimmer)
if you must use a solid state dimmer make sure it claims to have "zero
crossover switching" this will help reduce the amount of 'hash' that comes
out of it.
install skylight (sorry just kidding on this one)
Scott Dorsey
>
>Now here is the strange part. When I make solid contact with my fingers
>on the strings, the buzz disappears. So, I took a wire and attached it
>on the ground of the guitar cord and hooked the other to my body
>(actually hooked it over my underwear so it would make good contact with
>my skin :) and this does eliminate the buzz. However this is a bit
>uncomfortable <g>. So why does grounding the guitar to my body get rid
>of the buzz and what other alternatives do I have?
You're realing with radiated RF. The guitar is getting a more solid ground
through your body. This is bad.
Take the dimmers out and put in something that doesn't throw RF trash
on your power lines
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Erik Squires
power. This will eliminate both possible problems, one is a ground loop,
another is DC offset being caused by your dimmer.
Regards,
Erik
"Rob Adelman" <rade...@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3E0F288D...@mn.rr.com...
Jay Kahrs
>Now here is the strange part. When I make solid contact with my fingers
>on the strings, the buzz disappears. So, I took a wire and attached it
>on the ground of the guitar cord and hooked the other to my body
>(actually hooked it over my underwear so it would make good contact with
>my skin :) and this does eliminate the buzz. However this is a bit
>uncomfortable <g>. So why does grounding the guitar to my body get rid
>of the buzz and what other alternatives do I have?
>
Here's a really dumb question... Are you sure it isn't the guitar? I had a
guitar player in recently who was blaming everything for the buzz on his guitar
but the guitar. It was the ground on the amp, the pedals, bad cables etc. Turns
out that the ground wire from the bridge to the guitars electronics had come
off. I took a 10" piece of stranded wire and attached one end to the output
jack of his guitar and the other end to the bridge and whuddaknow? It was
totally quiet. I'm not saying that the problem isn't in the lights, but don't
overlook the obvious especially where ground is concerned.
---
-Jay Kahrs
Owner - Chief Engineer
Mad Moose Recording Inc.
Morris Plains, NJ
http://www.madmooserecording.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Come visit me here --> http://www.gearslutz.com
Rob Adelman
Jay Kahrs wrote:
> Here's a really dumb question... Are you sure it isn't the guitar?
If I plug in my Silvertone with 3 single coil pick-ups, the problem is even worse,
But I haven't tried grounding that guitar to my body.
-Rob
Rob Adelman
rocksteady wrote:
:) Yes, I do this. But it isn't just recording, I don't want to hear any
buzzing from my guitar amp. And this lighting system cost me plenty, I
want it working properly.
-Rob
Rob Adelman
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> You're realing with radiated RF. The guitar is getting a more solid ground
> through your body. This is bad.
I was getting some of this in the rest of my system as well, but since I got
everything grounded properly together, including my keyboard set-up, everything
else is operating silently. The guitar does seem to be rather like an antenna
for this stuff though.
-Rob
Rob Adelman
Rob
Dave Stehman
MPC4800 with sliders.
Buzzing changes in intensity through pre/board/amp path
as slider position changes, but no change in frequency of
buzz.
Dimmer the lights, louder the buzz.
Touching strings reduces, never eliminates it.
Lights are ten 3 bulb track 120v 75 W halogen spots
aimed up at bright white ceiling for wholeroom ambient
level control.
Tried 2 prong adapter w/ no help.
Tried plugging lights and all sound stuff into same outlet
w/ni help.
Any help welcomed.
I have the controller manual for reference if that helps me get help.
I'm thinking this is a different source of hash than solid state
dimmers, as this one has sliders, so don't know how to tell if
previous suggestions will work.
Thanks for being here
"Dimmer" Dave Stehman
"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:aunkon$ruq$1...@panix2.panix.com...
Mike Tulley
wrote:
>Now here is the strange part. When I make solid contact with my fingers
>on the strings, the buzz disappears. So, I took a wire and attached it
>on the ground of the guitar cord and hooked the other to my body
>(actually hooked it over my underwear so it would make good contact with
>my skin :) and this does eliminate the buzz. However this is a bit
>uncomfortable <g>. So why does grounding the guitar to my body get rid
>of the buzz and what other alternatives do I have?
Then there was the fiddle player I recorded las week. He had a pickup
that was installed in Nicaragua, and it had an "interesting" sound. I
had to connect a wire to the shell of the jack on the fiddle and told
him to stuff the other end of the wire down his pants.
It solved the buzz problem.
Mike T.
Jay Kahrs
>worse,
>But I haven't tried grounding that guitar to my body.
>
Well, obviously a single coil is going to pick up more magnetic fields and junk
from around the room. Do you have another guitar with humbuckers you could try?
How about plugging a bass or synth into the guitar amps? Is it one specific
amp? How about cables? I've had people come in with cables that work but were
noisy as fuck. Replacing just the 10 or 15' cable going into the amp reduced
lots of noise.
Jay Kahrs
>worse,
>But I haven't tried grounding that guitar to my body.
Oh, and if you turn the dimmers all the way up you shouldn't get any buzz from
them at all. In theory that takes it out of the circuit and it should be like a
regular switch. I have cheap ($10?) dimmers installed in the control room and
the only time I get noise from them is if they aren't all the way up. Normally
I use floor lamps for lighting while tracking so it's never been a problem.
Ben Bradley
There's the idea of complaining to the company you bought it from,
telling them to fix it or refund your money. If there was a written
guarantee of no induced noise, you may have a good case for making
them fix it.
If all you have is a salesman's word that it would be noiseless,
you could go back to him and make a real pest of yourself...
If all you have is potential technical fixes you do yourself, are
the pickup cavities in your guitars shielded?
Someone else also suggested adding filtering at the dimmer. Add
filtering between the dimmer and the supply line AND between the
dimmer and the lights (or the transformers, I forget how you said this
was wired) - put the filters physically next to the dimmer with wires
between the filters and dimmer as short as possible. When the dimmer
SCR switches, it radiates a pulse on every wire coming out of the
dimmer.
>-Rob
>
>
Rob Adelman
Jay Kahrs wrote:
> Well, obviously a single coil is going to pick up more magnetic fields and junk
> from around the room. Do you have another guitar with humbuckers you could try?
> How about plugging a bass or synth into the guitar amps? Is it one specific
> amp? How about cables? I've had people come in with cables that work but were
> noisy as fuck. Replacing just the 10 or 15' cable going into the amp reduced
> lots of noise.
My PRS has humbuckers. And I tried different cables and bypassed my
effects board and went straight from guitar to amp, same exact noise.
-Rob
Scott Dorsey
It _is_ working properly. You buy dimmers, that's what you get. Sorry.
It's not like you didn't get warned.
Scott Dorsey
>I'm having similar buzzing from a 4 cvhannel light controller
>MPC4800 with sliders.
>Buzzing changes in intensity through pre/board/amp path
>as slider position changes, but no change in frequency of
>buzz.
>Dimmer the lights, louder the buzz.
>Touching strings reduces, never eliminates it.
>Lights are ten 3 bulb track 120v 75 W halogen spots
>aimed up at bright white ceiling for wholeroom ambient
>level control.
>Tried 2 prong adapter w/ no help.
>Tried plugging lights and all sound stuff into same outlet
>w/ni help.
>Any help welcomed.
>I have the controller manual for reference if that helps me get help.
>I'm thinking this is a different source of hash than solid state
>dimmers, as this one has sliders, so don't know how to tell if
>previous suggestions will work.
It's the same problem. The solution is the same; get a dimmer pack that
is specifically designed for low noise or go the autotransformer route.
You buy cheap junk, you get noise. Sorry.
Jay Kahrs
>effects board and went straight from guitar to amp, same exact noise.
Ok, but what if you try another guitar with humbuckers? My Strat finds lots of
noise if you look at it wrong, so does a Tele. Try something else with a
'bucker.
Rob Adelman
Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> It _is_ working properly. You buy dimmers, that's what you get. Sorry.
> It's not like you didn't get warned.
Agreed, I did get warned. Just looking for the best way to make it work
with the lights I have. I will install the the variable transformers in
the wall if thats what it takes.
-Rob
Scott Dorsey
Yes, the lights aren't the problem at all (if they are standard incandescents
of some sort), the dimmers are. The dimmers are what must go.
Ethan Winer
> I will install the the variable transformers in the wall if thats what it
takes. <
I'll also mention that before I installed the variable transformers in my
home, I looked into the heavy inductor filters you can connect to solid
state dimmers. They cost as much as variable transformers (!), so I bought
the transformers to avoid ANY chance of even a little buzz leaking out.
--Ethan
lanis lebaron & hank alrich
> what other alternatives do I have?
Candles or kerosene laterns.
--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"