What is a Sony C37/C38/C800 mic?
Mike Hunter
Mike Hunter
Paul J. Stamler
: Anybody know about these mics? Multi pattern? Cost? Sound?
The C37 was a dual-pattern (omni and cardioid) large-diaphragm condenser
mike; they made three versions, the C37 and C37A which had tube preamps
in them, and the C37-FET, which you can probably guess had FET preamps in
them. The C-38 and C800 I'm not familiar with, although I've seen the
C-38 described as a condenser mike.
Peace.
Paul
Mark A Aspinall
mi...@yakima.wustl.edu (Mike Hunter) wrote:
>Anybody know about these mics? Multi pattern? Cost? Sound?
>
The C37 is a multipattern side address condenser mike that I think is very
similar in response to a Neumann U47fet. It is also a FET mike, but has a tube
cousin in the C37A. They both make good vocal mics, though the C37A is a
little sweeter. The C37 fet has a somewhat low output and signal to noise, as
well.
Monte P McGuire
I'd disagree with the U47fet comparison... The C37p has a really poor
LF response because they made the gate resistor way too small and thus
the bass is completely rolled off. Plus, the housing is far from
transparent and so you get a lot of upper midrange and some serious HF
rolloff that makes the mike very heavily midrange balanced.
On top of this, the electronics are first generation FET and as such,
have a lot of noise and distortion. This all adds up to a thick,
midrangey, generally dirty sound that, while it may be useful in some
odd cases, is far from what other competent condensers can offer.
The C37a is slightly better, but it's still noisy and it has the same
bass problems and housing issues. For some reason, they've become
coveted, even though you couldn't get rid of them 10 years ago...
I don't have a lot of experience with the C38, but since it's later
along the line, it probably works better.
The C800 is a modern, very expensive tube condenser that is basically
what the C37a should have been. It has a sensible housing that
doesn't mess up the capsule's response too much, electronics that
don't sound bad and a price tag that proves the difference. If you
want to spend even more, you can get the C800g with the Peliter effect
tube cooler and, as Sony claims, get less distortion still.
Personally, I'd avoid them all, but that's just my opinion...
Monte McGuire - N1TBL
mcg...@world.std.com
SECONDWIND
>Mike Hunter
Don't know about the C-38 or C-800, but I used C-37's about 25 years ago
on a variety of instruments. Verry smooth. Very clean. Nice top end but
a little peaky up around 12 khz, if a remember correctly. I do know that
the C-37 was used in the fading days of mono LPs to record the Detroit
Symph. under Paul Paray. They used a single mike suspended about 15 feet
over the conductors head and 10 feet back into the auditorium. I always
thought that those recordings were the standard to judge mono recorded
symphony music.
Kevin Kern
out
http://home.earthlink.net/~kevkern/Usedgear.HTML
and you can even buy one!!
Kevin
Mark A Aspinall wrote:
>
> In article <4ggrgb$i...@newsreader.wustl.edu>,
> mi...@yakima.wustl.edu (Mike Hunter) wrote:
> >Anybody know about these mics? Multi pattern? Cost? Sound?
> >
> >Mike Hunter
>
Chris Caudle
> The C-38 and C800 I'm not familiar with, although I've seen the
>C-38 described as a condenser mike.
Isn't the C800 the newer Sony tube condenser mic? Unless
I'm confused about the model number, I think it's the one with
that big peltier cooler on the tube, with the heatsinks sticking out
the back of the mic body. High priced from what I remember seeing.
Chris Caudle
cau...@bangate.compaq.com
HoosierSnd
(optional) large horizontal, finned radiator/heat sink. At the AES in
NYC, Bruce Swedien called this 'possibly the finest mic ever made'. It
can be seen in a recent Mariah Carey/Boys2Men video.
I saw one used recently, for $4500.
HTH
steveV
steve V. johnson + studio V
Original Music Recordings
All Popular, Ethnic & Formal Musics
Bloomington, Indiana 47401
Scott Dorsey
>>Anybody know about these mics? Multi pattern? Cost? Sound?
>
>on a variety of instruments. Verry smooth. Very clean. Nice top end but
>a little peaky up around 12 khz, if a remember correctly. I do know that
>the C-37 was used in the fading days of mono LPs to record the Detroit
>Symph. under Paul Paray. They used a single mike suspended about 15 feet
>over the conductors head and 10 feet back into the auditorium. I always
>thought that those recordings were the standard to judge mono recorded
>symphony music.
The C-800 is a currently-issued vacuum tube mike. It uses a 6AU6 tube
(actually a nice choice if you can find quiet enough ones), with a
capsule that looks a lot like the C-37. The cardioid pattern is kind
of sloppy due to the poor capsule tolerances, but the electronics are
okay (although there is a cathode bypass cap there which is really cheesy).
I believe the price is somewhere around that of a small compact car.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Enlah
G is the one with the heat sink and is intended more for vocals. The
other is more standard looking and is more of an instrument mic.
TWEST888
(now I said similar). I have one or more of each of the first
three but the 800 costs more than my first five autos. I've
never been around one but I have heard nothing but raves.
Scott Dorsey
I haven't tried the 800G, but the 800 sounds a whole lot like the C37A,
and the capsule and electronics are almost identical. It's not a bad
mike, but I would rather have the cars.
shum...@eisner.decus.org
mi...@yakima.wustl.edu (Mike Hunter) asked about various Sony mics
(C37, C38, C800):
> Anybody know about these mics? Multi pattern? Cost? Sound?
The C37 capsule is a single-diaphragm, fairly large diameter, assembly.
It appears that there is a cavity inside the backing plate but I have
never taken one apart far enough to confirm it. The C37 dates from the
middle 1950's, the C37-A included a general upgrade to the capsule; both
were vacuum-tube microphones using a triode-connected 6AU6 cathode
follower -- the tubes provided by Sony were selected for quiet but mine
(6 tubes, 3 microphones) all exhibited occasional popcorn. C37s with
different letter suffixes (usually in lower case) were all FET units,
none of which I have ever used (but there's a lot of room in the case,
surely there's no reason that modern FETs and circuitry couldn't be
retrofit; the capsule is around 50 pF and was polarized at around 60 V).
As far as I know, all of the C37 varieties came in the same case which
looked like a miniature 77D-X but with a wire screen instead of
perforated sheet metal.
The capsule has a tensioned gold-sputtered plastic (I believe Mylar)
diaphragm and provides two (only) directional patterns, an omni and a
cardioid which was not terribly narrow but had a good front-to-back
ratio and pretty flat off-axis response (at least on the units I had).
The diaphragm surface is out in front of the clamping ring, and the
backplate is in several pieces threaded for assembly; if the diaphragm
has lost its stretch it would be a simple task to retension it (but not
a simple task to know when it's right again).
The units I had were all _very_ flat and smooth; clearly flatter in the
HF region and with much extended bass, when compared to the KM56's I had
at the same time. In the omni position, pickup of near-infrasonic room
vibrations in some locations was noticeable (and easily handled). For
the work I was doing at the time (1959-1961, large and small orchestral
and choral sessions and concerts in halls of different sizes), the C37-As
had clearly superior definition of inner voices than anything else I tried
(KM56, U47, 77D-X, Altec 21D, B&O 53 ribbon).
mcg...@world.std.com (Monte P McGuire) writes:
> the bass is completely rolled off. Plus, the housing is far from
> transparent and so you get a lot of upper midrange and some serious HF
> rolloff that makes the mike very heavily midrange balanced.
...
> The C37a is slightly better, but it's still noisy and it has the same
> bass problems and housing issues.
I can only state that this was not my experience with new (at the time)
C37-As. I do not know my microphone physics well enough to predict what
effects a loosened diaphragm might cause, nor do I have any idea who might
be in the business of adjusting them.
FYI, when Superscope began importing the C37-As in the mid-'50s, they were
$395; when Superscope got out of the mic business (and the Sony business)
a few years later, they were $295 and available for a few dollars less
when they were closed out. That's still about $3000-$4000 1996 dollars.
Or more.
Monte P McGuire
<shum...@eisner.decus.org> wrote:
>mcg...@world.std.com (Monte P McGuire) writes:
>
>> the bass is completely rolled off. Plus, the housing is far from
>> transparent and so you get a lot of upper midrange and some serious HF
>> rolloff that makes the mike very heavily midrange balanced.
> ...
>> The C37a is slightly better, but it's still noisy and it has the same
>> bass problems and housing issues.
>
>I can only state that this was not my experience with new (at the time)
>C37-As. I do not know my microphone physics well enough to predict what
>effects a loosened diaphragm might cause, nor do I have any idea who might
>be in the business of adjusting them.
I must have heard a bum C37p and C37a... From what you describe,
these sound like good mikes. Maybe the consistency between units is
poor???
Regards,
Bob Olhsson
(Mark A Aspinall) wrote:
>The C37 is a multipattern side address condenser mike that I think is very
>similar in response to a Neumann U47fet. It is also a FET mike, but has a tube
>cousin in the C37A. They both make good vocal mics, though the C37A is a
>little sweeter. The C37 fet has a somewhat low output and signal to noise, as
>well.
The C-37 FET and the U-47 FET are VERY different sounding mikes.
The 47 Fet is a hypercardioid fixed pattern. The Sony is an
acoustic-derived omni/cardioid switchable. They both have a high overload
capability. Sony ran ads comparing the dismal dynamic range of the v.1
U-87 to the C-37 and their high-end fet mike of the time. Gotham countered
by having Neumann build the U-47 FET and quietly fixing the 87. The mikes
were linked in the ads but sounded very different. The 37s were popular
for drums and guitars while the U-47 was mostly, in my experience, used
for piano. Neither was anything to write home about.
The original C-37a tube mike was considered the finest general-purpose
condenser mike available until Neumann answered it with the U-67 which
incorporated many of its features (HF resonance eq'd out, windscreen
shape, built-in low-cut filters and mike pad) applied to a late-vintage
U-47 capsule.
Bob Olhsson
--
Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a treasure without end.
Box 555,Novato CA 94948 | And, O tongue, thou art also a disease
415.457.2620 | without remedy. == Jelal'uddin Rumi ==
415.456.1496 FAX |
n...@news.mhv.net
The C-800 lists for around $4900.
The one with the cooling system hanging off the back is the C-800G, and
lists for about $6900.
Haven't gotten a chance to play with them too much, but a friend has
both the C-800 and the C-800G. Says the C-800 sounds allright, nothing
terribly special, but he loves the G.
-Nick Grossman
Paradigm Sound & Art Studios
Bob Olhsson
>As far as I know, all of the C37 varieties came in the same case which
>looked like a miniature 77D-X but with a wire screen instead of
>perforated sheet metal.
I'm looking at two C-37as with perforated sheet metal screens as I type!
The word I hear on the new ones is that they also have a very very wide
cardiod pattern, wide enough that a friend had to move vocalists to avoid
control room window reflections that had been no problem with U-47s, 87s
and M-49s.
DOUGLAS S. WALKER
careful not to go too far. Too much tension will stretch the Mylar where it
passes over the relatively sharp edge of the diaphragm clamping ring,
resulting in separation of the gold coating. Then you are in trouble, and
the skin must be replaced.
Does it sound like I learned about this phenomenon by first hand experience??
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