Re: OT - Bush has clear mandate to govern from the right
Ted Lart
> Republican George W. Bush has beaten the Democratic challenger John F.
> Kerry by a margin of about 4 million votes. There were more votes for
> Bush in this electiion than there were for any other American
> President in history. This clearly demonstrates that the American
> center has made a shift to the right. Bush now has the mandate to
> advance a right-wing agenda, as he sees fit. The Senate and House of
> Representatives also elected a higher percentage of Republicans.
>
> If the Democratic party wishes to survive, they will need to shift
> their politics more to the right, in order to represent the needs of
> most Americans.
We shall see.
Drily Lit Raga
>
>> Republican George W. Bush has beaten the Democratic challenger John F.
>> Kerry by a margin of about 4 million votes. There were more votes for
>> Bush in this electiion than there were for any other American
>> President in history.
I understand there were more votes for Kerry than any other president in
history too (other than GWB of course). True? False?
>> This clearly demonstrates that the American
>> center has made a shift to the right.
Or perhaps it clearly demonstrates that the populace, who apparently chose
"moral values" over any other factor in guiding their voting decision,
cannot deal with the complexities of today's world and just want someone to
tell them that no matter how screwed up things get, everything is going
just fine, nothing is wrong, and we have a "vision" for the future and
we're spreading "freedom". Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Or maybe it demonstrates the people feel that since GWB got us into the
mess in Iraq, he's the one who should get us out. Anyone want to predict
the final toll?
Oh yeah, and it clearly demonstrates that the biggest problem facing us
today is those darn gays who want to get married. Because as we know, only
gays commit crimes, and married gays would... uh... destroy the sanctity of
marriage. Tell yah what, if you're worried about the sanctity of marriage,
lobby your representative to make DIVORCE ILLEGAL. IN a CONSTITUTIONAL
AMENDMENT. That's a real effective use of the government.
Oh whoopeee.
Jay Kadis
-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x
Bill Fright
cats, streets, bicycles, pairs of shoes then ever before? Gee what a
shocker that a larger population reflects a larger population.
Seattle Eric
> "Willard" wrote:
>
>
>>Republican George W. Bush has beaten the Democratic challenger John F.
>>Kerry by a margin of about 4 million votes.
If this ass was a lefty, he'd be saying "ONLY 4 million votes", and
whatever small percentage that is.
Go ahead, grovel before your king, slave.
Oh, and thanks for spamming us, buttwipe.
steve
Jay Kadis wrote:
>
> A 3% margin is hardly a clear mandate.
>
It is when Bush lost the popular vote last election.
Pete Dimsman
steve wrote:
But not when the margin of error on the e-voting machines is way more
than 3%, and weighted to Bush.
Kevin LaBerge
"Seattle Eric" <no...@erehwon.gov> wrote in message
news:418a6a29$0$11695$8b46...@news.nationwide.net...
> Ted Lart wrote:
>> "Willard" wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Republican George W. Bush has beaten the Democratic challenger John F.
>>>Kerry by a margin of about 4 million votes.
>
> If this ass was a lefty, he'd be saying "ONLY 4 million votes", and
> whatever small percentage that is.
>
> Go ahead, grovel before your king, slave.
>
> Oh, and thanks for spamming us, buttwipe.
You make me sick my home state is WA. I'm still trying to figure out when
ignorant, disgraceful, surrender monkeys and unwashed commies like yourself
began to hijack a once beautiful city and state.
steve
We may never know the truth about any vote rigging, but it won't stop
GWB from squawking about his "mandate" because on paper, he came away
with more votes than Kerry as opposed to Gore in 2000.
I'm waiting for for current investigations against the White House to
just dry up and blow away without anything further being said. You know,
like Cheney's energy task force, Novak/Plame leak, Haliburton no-bid
Iraq contract, etc.
With the Republican strangle hold on both houses, and soon to be right
leaning Supreme Court, there will be no action forthcoming on misdeeds
committed by the Republican party or its wealthy supporters until there
is enough public outrage to vote them out of office.
The bottom line here is the Democrat party has sat back while the
Republican party has built an organized voter bloc right through the
middle of America. With big business bankrolling your party and Karl
Rove setting strategy, how can you lose?
Blind Joni
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > It is when Bush lost the popular vote last election.
This may be kinda true...GWB questionably "won" the 2000 election..but after 4
years, a war everybody disagrees with, a big deficit, etc..winning a clear
victory says something...must mean a majority of the country is stupid.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Pete Dimsman
Blind Joni wrote:
> This may be kinda true...GWB questionably "won" the 2000 election..but after 4
> years, a war everybody disagrees with, a big deficit, etc..winning a clear
> victory says something...must mean a majority of the country is stupid.
SO, you finally get it.
Blind Joni
>Republican party has built an organized voter bloc right through the
>middle of America. With big business bankrolling your party and Karl
>Rove setting strategy, how can you lose?
I think perhaps that voting bloc was already there..the Reps just appealed to
it better than the Dems. I think a lot of big spenders bankrolled both
parties..George Soros(sp)?
WillStG
There are good reasons even Democratic observers call this election a
mandate. First he won the popular vote decisively, and there can be no doubt
about that whatsoever.
And he won by a majority percentage unseen since Reagan, for the last 16
years Presidents have been elected with pluralities of the vote - but not with
an out and out majority. With a record turnout, Bush not only gained many
voters who voted for Gore but he also gained the majority of new voters as
well.
And the President had coat tails, he gained seats in the House and Senate,
and the Senate Minority leader even lost his seat to a Republican. This kind
of thing hasn't happened in 60 years or so.
Americans tend to feel better about divided government so one side can keep
an eye on the other. Asking voters to consider this election a referendum on
his policies with the centerpiece being the War on Terror, he won decisively
despite all the major media trying to undermine him (there were statistically
77% positive stories about Kerry on network news to 38% positive stories on
Predident Bush during the campaign - and the public overwhemlingly has stated
in research studiies they noticed the slant and that reporters wished for a
Kerry win.)
An interesting side story that, the death of the politically dominant
influence of the liberal major media outlets.
Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audioist 4 Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
steve
Blind Joni wrote:
>
> >The bottom line here is the Democrat party has sat back while the
> >Republican party has built an organized voter bloc right through the
> >middle of America. With big business bankrolling your party and Karl
> >Rove setting strategy, how can you lose?
>
> I think perhaps that voting bloc was already there..the Reps just appealed to
> it better than the Dems. I think a lot of big spenders bankrolled both
> parties..George Soros(sp)?
>
I think "appeal" is the wrong term. For the most part, middle America
seems to be manipulated into voting out of fear, and the Republican
party is far better at creating issues that make them crazy afraid.
Saying things like Kerry would ban the Bible is true inspiration when it
comes to fear mongering.
Yes, there big spenders on both sides, but big business goes to the path
of least resistance. Just look at which party has the most lax policies
toward protecting the public's interests against corporations.
agent86
--< whatever >--
I've never met Will.
But I'll bet his eyes are brown.
Just a guess... based on how full of shit he is.
squig
news:418AA22D...@yahoo.com...
I don't think the Democrats have anything to say. They controlled congress
for quite a while (pre-1994). From 1992-1994, they had the Big House and
Congress and didn't get anything done.
Let's talk about wealthy supporters for the Democrats. You want the entire
list or just the top ten. Here are some names: George Soros (promised $15.5M
to get Bush out of office), Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Haim Saban ($9.3M), Fred
Eychaner ($7.4M), Stephen Bing, ($6.7M), Steven Kirsch ($3.2M), Bernard
Schwartz ($2.3M), Senator Jon Corzine ($2M). It is also stated that of the
$1 million or more donations that were received by either party, 92% went to
the Democrats.
There have been so many reports of dual voting from NY-FL residents, I
wouldn't even start into talking about vote-rigging.
John A. Hanson
wil...@aol.comnospam (WillStG) wrote:
> An interesting side story that, the death of the politically dominant
> influence of the liberal major media outlets.
And it's interesting this coincides with the death of reason and
morality for a majority of American voters.
Hopefully both are only wounded however, viding the now proven success
of liberalism, even when it's just a moderately liberal president (such
as Bill Clinton) in the picture.
Jack
Seattle Eric
>
> You make me sick my home state is WA. I'm still trying to figure out when
> ignorant, disgraceful, surrender monkeys and unwashed commies like yourself
> began to hijack a once beautiful city and state.
>
Man you are one ignorant Washingtonian. Even back in the twenties
Washington
was a hotbed of progressives. Every hear of the Wobblies, numbnuts?
Oh, no,
of course not-- looks like you're doomed to repeat THAT bit of history.
And they didn't call it the "People's Soviet of Seattle" for nothing.
Geez dude, hit the books. I thought conservatives were supposed to
rever the past.
Joe Kultgen
berlin.de:
Misleading as hell.
He took Ohio by 200,000 and Nevada by 21,000.
If less than 250,000 people had voted the other way we'd be talking about
President Kerry right now. And that's with the largest voter turnout in
US history. Percentage wise this election was probably as close as the
last one.
The American people just did an employee evaluation on the sitting
president and came within a quarter million votes of replacing him with a
socialist. Only a president with balls of brass and a brain to match
could interpret that as a blank check to continue pushing a right wing
agenda.
You want historic? Bush went from barely acceptable, to the highest
appoval rating of any US president, and back to barely acceptable in less
than four years. What will he do for an encore? Nuke somebody?
Later,
Joe
George Gleason
>>>A 3% margin is hardly a clear mandate.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>It is when Bush lost the popular vote last election.
>
>
> This may be kinda true...GWB questionably "won" the 2000 election..but after 4
> years, a war everybody disagrees with, a big deficit, etc..winning a clear
> victory says something...must mean a majority of the country is stupid.
>
>
george
George Gleason
>
> There have been so many reports of dual voting from NY-FL residents, I
> wouldn't even start into talking about vote-rigging.
>
>
thousands of Bush votes
Fortunately that scam was defused
What about Diebold promising to deliver the electorate in Ohio to GW?
what about Bush himself 6 months ago promising "There is NO WAY I will
lose this time" I am guessing what ever went on would make Watergate
look like a church picnic
George
R Krizman
> Bush in this electiion than there were for any other American
There were probably also more votes for Kerry than there were for any other
American President in history.
Big turnout.
-R
R Krizman
his policies with the centerpiece being the War on Terror, he won decisively
Yes, America has spoken. He won decisively, and fair and square.
It draws a very clear picture of who we are as a people.
I, for one, find it a very disappointing picture.
And guess what, even though the majority voted against me, I'm still entitled
to that opinion.
-R
Bob Cain
Blind Joni wrote:
>>>A 3% margin is hardly a clear mandate.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>It is when Bush lost the popular vote last election.
>
>
> This may be kinda true...GWB questionably "won" the 2000 election..but after 4
> years, a war everybody disagrees with, a big deficit, etc..winning a clear
> victory says something...must mean a majority of the country is stupid.
And having the most babies. The dumbing down of America is
_not_ a myth. We are seeing it very clearly now and it is
growing at the hands of the panderers (Fox and the neocons
to name a few) into something to be proud of.
I'm afraid things are going to have to get a _whole_ lot
worse before the idiots will give a inch now that they've
tasted what they think is their power and that there may be
no recovery possible from the bottom they are rushing
headlong toward.
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."
A. Einstein
Bob Cain
squig wrote:
> Let's talk about wealthy supporters for the Democrats. You want the entire
> list or just the top ten. Here are some names: George Soros (promised $15.5M
> to get Bush out of office), Bill Gates...
When did Gates reveal his politics?
Bob Cain
agent86 wrote:
> WillStG wrote:
>
> --< whatever >--
>
> I've never met Will.
>
> But I'll bet his eyes are brown.
His nose obviously is.
Analogeezer
Bingo....my theory exactly.
Popular culture pretty much sucks because the average American is a
moron....and voting is a popularity contest so there you go...
Analogeezer
Analogeezer
I think it's demographics more than anything.....baby boomers are now
the largest voting block, and they're all 35 - 60 years old now.
People get conservative in their old years, that's a natural
progression.
The same people that wanted to stop a war now want to fight it....as
long as they don't have to fight it or their kids don't.
Analogeezer
squig
news:cmfdi...@enews4.newsguy.com...
Hev
news:bfb37ea9.0411...@posting.google.com...
> I think it's demographics more than anything.....baby boomers are now
> the largest voting block, and they're all 35 - 60 years old now.
> People get conservative in their old years, that's a natural
> progression.
I hear people spouting this crap all the time. Is there any actual data to
back this claim up?
The statement doesn't ring true for anyone I know.
--
-Hev
find me here:
www.michaelSCREWspringerROBOTS.com
Ken Overton
> I love stats like these. One question - Are there more homes, cars,
> cats, streets, bicycles, pairs of shoes then ever before? Gee what a
> shocker that a larger population reflects a larger population.
Yeah, I thought that was funny too -- "There were more votes for
Bush in this electiion than there were for any other American
President in history" -- there were also more votes for John Kerry than
for any other American President in history. Wooo. Woooooooo.
-- kov
Edwin Hurwitz
"squig" <squiggy...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
Didn't get anything done? Compare where we were at 2000 vs where we were
at 1900. We had increased the life expectancy, created a middle class, a
health care system that reached a lot more people than not and an
environmental policy that at least attempted to protect us and the
environment. We started to defeat racism. We had huge moral capital
world wide and were able to help many people all over the world (and run
roughshod over others). We used to have a country where anyone could
rise to the top. Now we have a president who pretends to be like the
rest of us, but who among us has his kind of family history? They have
been pulling strings in the country since the first world war. He also
has a religious faith that has forced all rational thought from his mind
and treats our country as if he is god or emperor. He is deluded about
the rest of the world and how we relate to it. He has no respect or
compassion for anyone but himself. He is just a spoiled rich kid coke
freak who has found another set of addictions : power and overweening
piety.
George Bush and Karl Rove want to take us back to the days of McKinley
where a few rich people lived like kings on the backs of the people.
They want to repeal the 20th century.
Welcome to the new America, folks. If you ain't rich, get ready for a
reaming!
Edwin
Bill Van Dyk
actually trying to enforce tha anti-trust laws, that they had switched
their support entirely over to the Republicans. In which case, it worked.
Bill Van Dyk
can't manage flu vaccines, can't catch Osama bin Laden--- and the media
are still supposed to run enough favorable stories to make it seem like
the is doing as good a job as Kerry???
In fact, there is much more compelling argument to be made that since
Bush's primary assets in this election-- according to polls-- is his war
on terror and his stand on gay marriage, he doesn't have much of a
mandate for anything else.
WillStG wrote:
>>Jay Kadis j...@ccrma.stanford.edu
>>A 3% margin is hardly a clear mandate.
>
Don Cooper
Blind Joni wrote:
> This may be kinda true...GWB questionably "won" the 2000 election..but after 4
> years, a war everybody disagrees with, a big deficit, etc..winning a clear
> victory says something...must mean a majority of the country is stupid.
I don't like to use that word.
Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is forever.
Don Cooper
"John A. Hanson" wrote:
> Hopefully both are only wounded however, viding the now proven success
> of liberalism, even when it's just a moderately liberal president (such
> as Bill Clinton) in the picture.
It's true what they say - Bill was the best Republican Preseident.
Don Cooper
agent86 wrote:
> I've never met Will.
>
> But I'll bet his eyes are brown.
>
> Just a guess... based on how full of shit he is.
He seems to be proud of it, too.
Don Cooper
of votes of any Democratic candidate, ever.
And Bush had the highest amount of votes against him, ever.
In other words - it was a high turnout.
I worked at my local polling place, and people were on line when I got
there at 5:45AM.
Don Cooper
Hev wrote:
> > I think it's demographics more than anything.....baby boomers are now
> > the largest voting block, and they're all 35 - 60 years old now.
> > People get conservative in their old years, that's a natural
> > progression.
>
> I hear people spouting this crap all the time. Is there any actual data to
> back this claim up?
> The statement doesn't ring true for anyone I know.
I've gotten less "conservative", because the meaning of the word has
been hijacked.
Someone in government talking about church is extremely inappropriate, I feel.
Don Cooper
R Krizman wrote:
> Yes, America has spoken. He won decisively, and fair and square.
>
> It draws a very clear picture of who we are as a people.
>
> I, for one, find it a very disappointing picture.
>
> And guess what, even though the majority voted against me, I'm still entitled
> to that opinion.
Yup. They even have two parties in Russia. Mandate schmandate.
EganMedia
>> progression.
>
>I hear people spouting this crap all the time. Is there any actual data to
>back this claim up?
>The statement doesn't ring true for anyone I know.
My grandmother used to say, "people don't change. They just become more so."
Joe Egan
EMP
Colchester, VT
www.eganmedia.com
play-on
with millions of dollars. Believe it or not, Microsoft is a separate
entity.
Al
William Davis
Bill Fright <billf...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> I love stats like these. One question - Are there more homes, cars,
> cats, streets, bicycles, pairs of shoes then ever before? Gee what a
> shocker that a larger population reflects a larger population.
>
> Ted Lart wrote:
>
> > "Willard" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Republican George W. Bush has beaten the Democratic challenger John F.
> >>Kerry by a margin of about 4 million votes. There were more votes for
> >>Bush in this electiion than there were for any other American
> >>President in history. This clearly demonstrates that the American
> >>center has made a shift to the right. Bush now has the mandate to
> >>advance a right-wing agenda, as he sees fit. The Senate and House of
> >>Representatives also elected a higher percentage of Republicans.
> >>
> >>If the Democratic party wishes to survive, they will need to shift
> >>their politics more to the right, in order to represent the needs of
> >>most Americans.
> >
> >
> > We shall see.
Personally, I find listening to newsgroup people pretend to be experts
in political stuff about as useless as expecting professional
politicians to understand stuff like video production and soccer.
Go away and find a news group where real world skills like getting along
with clients and crews REGARDLESS of their political or social beliefs
AWAY from the job isn't important.
Personally, I find it's incredibly important in mine.
WillStG
<< I think "appeal" is the wrong term. For the most part, middle America
seems to be manipulated into voting out of fear, and the Republican
party is far better at creating issues that make them crazy afraid.
Saying things like Kerry would ban the Bible is true inspiration when it
comes to fear mongering.
>>
Middle America heard that kind of insult thrown their way ad naseum during
the election, and responded decisively to it at the ballot box. You still
don't get it. If you tell people they are stupid, bigoted, just too scared
to think straight if they vote for the other Party, you come off as harsh,
shrill, unreasonable, manipulative and totally disrespectful for people who
have honest policy disagreements with you.
And that is, among other things, "Un-Presidential". It makes people less
likely to *trust* you on what you say you do beleive, and less likely to
overlook differences they may have with you on some things.
Bob Cain
squig wrote:
Could you rustle up a link to that?
Thanks,
Hev
news:20041106033505...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> << steve com...@yahoo.com >>
> << I think "appeal" is the wrong term. For the most part, middle America
> seems to be manipulated into voting out of fear, and the Republican
> party is far better at creating issues that make them crazy afraid.
> Saying things like Kerry would ban the Bible is true inspiration when it
> comes to fear mongering.
> >>
>
> Middle America heard that kind of insult thrown their way ad naseum
> during
> the election, and responded decisively to it at the ballot box. You
> still
> don't get it. If you tell people they are stupid, bigoted, just too
> scared
> to think straight if they vote for the other Party, you come off as harsh,
> shrill, unreasonable, manipulative and totally disrespectful for people
> who
> have honest policy disagreements with you.
I'm trying hard to not contribute to the OT threads but I have to share one
great comment I heard about middle America last night on a c-span.
The question presented was basically this put much more politely: "why are
the religious middle America lead so easily in regards to the Iraq war?".
A panelist answered: During the Vietnam war the cleric lead the anti-war
demonstrations and protests. Where are the clergy now?
I think this panelist really hit the nail on the head. If middle America is
rallying around its' faith, why are the clergy so mislead from the teachings
of their own religion?? What is happening to the moral standards of this
country?? It is disgraceful in the moral eye of the world.
--
-Hev
find me here:
www.michaelSCREWspringerROBOTS.com
PS- this is the first time I've seen Will's connection to Fox news. That
makes so much sense it is sickening.
Tom Paterson
>A panelist answered: During the Vietnam war the cleric lead the anti-war
>demonstrations and protests.
The most famous "cleric" of the times, Billy Graham, was a Nixon man.
BG's famous quote from the times: "This is a holy war". Some striking parallels
exist between the two eras.
Then, like now, protestors were marginalized. Some, like Michael Moore, are
doing a lot to help. "Just like old times". --TP
L David Matheny
> Okay-- let's see. Bush totally screws up Iraq, runs up a huge deficit,
> can't manage flu vaccines, can't catch Osama bin Laden--- and the media
> are still supposed to run enough favorable stories to make it seem like
> the is doing as good a job as Kerry???
You left out the fact that Bush allowed all those hurricanes to hit Florida.
And there's not a lot of evidence that Kerry has been doing much at all.
Animix
Just a thought here. Back when we were having our own pre-election debate,
we were talking about small businesses among other things and I mentioned to
you that I had 4 of them (what was I thinking?) Anyway they are a recording
studio, a graphic arts studio, a horse training operation and a consulting
firm which, basically, these days, spends 99% of it's time keeping natural
gas wells and the pipeline infrastructure out of people's yards, forests,
etc. I live on the northern rim of the 2nd largest natural gas reservoir in
the US. It's called the San Juan Basin and now that the econmy is shifting
away from oil, this area is undergoing some major transitions because these
gas wells are coalbed methane wells and have the potential to produce for
50+ years. The coalbed is a gas generator so they are as coloe to a
renewable fossil fuel energy resource as exists today.
There are lots of environmental activists in this area.
One thing that was making a lot of them uncomfortable about Kerry is that he
wouldn't give many specifics about his energy policy and how he planned to
get the extra money for a national healthcare system. These people don't
want to see certain areas of the national forests around here covered with
gas wells. The government would get huge royalties from these wells and they
were afraid that the density level would go way up in order to provide
additional revenue for Kerry's health plan, so a big block of Kerry's
potential voting block didn't feel comfortable with him because he wouldn't
spell out how he was going to get all of the money he proposed to spend.
Lots of these folks are also small business owners. They own ski shops and
outfitter operations for mountaineers, whitewater rafting and kayaking, etc.
They are normally democratic voters, but not this time.
As for the more conservative element of the voting block, I deal with a lot
of them because they live in areas where I am doing my best to limit the
impact of these gas wells.
However, there are lots of very conservative people here as well. These
folks are, for the most part hard working, college educated, ex-liberal
student activists from the
60''s who have moved here to raise their *grandchildren* because their
children, who grew up watching them smoke pot and live a lifestyle that put
into practice the lack of respect for authority and *the system* that we
took to heart during the Viet Nam era in this country.
They passed this along to their children who are now AWOL, addicted to drugs
or a *lifestyle that has put them on the street or in rehab.
Their grandchildren are covered with tatoos and are suffering with staph
infections from dirty needles and dress and behave like pimps and
prostitutes.
These folks would much rather be retired, but cannot because of the
lifestyle choices* that they made and passed along to the next generations.
The parents of these people are still alive and are helping their children
raise their grand children and great grandchildren.
There's such an incredible realization among these people that their lives
have been ruined by the choices that they made, that they, religious or not,
voted against any semblance of the liberal agenda in this country because
they feel like it was a great and miserable failure for them.
They didn't vote for Bush, they voted against abortion because they are
afraid that laws will be passed that will disallow their being included in
the decision making process. They voted against liberals because liberals
support the flaunting of the law that they are now looking to for some
sanity in their lives. The associate liberalism with having things like gay
marriage rammed down their throats by judicial fiat. They are not *anti
gay*, but because they don't like the idea of laws being overturned by
judges rather than by election and it really pissed them off to see the law
being flaunted on national TV.
They voted against CBS because CBS pissed them off with their
unsubstantiated national guard story and they associate CBS and Dan Rather
with liberalism.
They voted against Hollywood and MTV because their grandchildren are covered
with tatoos and
piercing and they are paying the bills for the staph infections and the
blame the entertainment industry for promoting a perception that it is
*cool* for their their granddaughters to dress up like prostitutes.
I know a lot of this is reactionary stuff, but nevertheless, there is an
evergrowing segment of the population that I am seeing that would rather put
the brakes on the liberal agenda until it is further examined in terms of a
lot of the issues they are now facing due to having embraced the liberal
agenda in the 60's.
What would have won it for Kerry, at least as far as
these people were concerned is if they could have had a sense that he would
have taken a stand against the liberal special interests in his party that
control it's social agenda. They knwe where Bush stood and were OK with it.
It's wasn't enough for Kerry to parrot Bush. He had to do better. what I
heard over and over agains were complaints about the influences of:
1. Al Gore and his refusal to respect the electoral college as being the law
of the land, Ted Kennedy and Michael Moore in particular and moveon.org and
in influence of people like George Soros..
2. MTV (HipHiop/RAP in particular-racist? Well yeah, maybe)
3. Allowing kids to have abortions without parental consent.
4. The current sex-ed school cirriculum (I don't know what it is since I
don't have kids but I have heard some pretty disturbing stuff from these
*grandparents* my age)
5. Criticizing the president in time of war-many just didn't think that this
was right, endangered us and didn't believe that Kerry would be committed
and these people are really pissed about 9-11. They *do not* want to leave
Iraq and feel like the war was justified.
6. A feeling among many people that the Democrats are *soft on drug use*. I
on't necessarily agree with this, but these folks used to be liberal
students, did drugs, associate the Democratic party with permissiveness and
have strong opinions about it.
7. The perceived willingness of Kerry to let the UN guide his decision
making process.
IMHO, his fatal mistakes were:
1. Running on a war record that was questionable and giving the Swiftvets
the opportunity to crucify him.
2. Not apologizing to the veterans he may have affected by his actions after
the war.
3. Not repudiating the 527's which were mopping the floor with him when Bush
gave him the opening.
4. Calling a sitting president in time of war all sorts names, a la Ted
Kennedy (you wouildn't believe the level of outright hate for Ted Kennedy
among former liberal 60's types in these parts-it's scary).
4. Allowing the Clinton team to run his campaign.
5. Not granting interviews-Yeah-I know, Bush was coddled by O'Reilly, but I
think Kerry could have done as well.
6.The goose hunt.
7. Not repudiating the Dan Rather/CBS attempt at the hatchet job on Bush.
8. Running with the missing explosives story and making it the cornerstone
of his campaign in the final days.
9. The *global test* comment.
10. The impression that he gave that he would seek out the counsel of the UN
(the UN is in the toilet around these parts as well) in guiding our affairs.
11. Having Clinton campaign for him in the final days.
12. Kerry's refusal to allow total access to his military record after all
of the brou ha-ha about Bush's national guard record did not go over well
here-I don't know if this was the case actually because I never really
cared, but it was a big deal to vets around here.
13. Teresa Kerry refusing to disclose her tax returns. Lots of folks that I
talked to thought it was hippocritical for the Democratic candidate to be
criticizing Halliburton, drug companies and other *big business*
oiperations, yet she wouldn't prove that she didn't have major holdings in
these same companies.
There were more screw ups that I could name, but the cumulative effect of
all of this was to leave voters with the impression that he was as big an
idiot as the Republican made him out to be.
Regards,
Doug
"Hev" <audio...@michaelspringerSUCK.com> wrote in message
news:BNKdnX9SvO_...@comcast.com...
WillStG
<< Yes, America has spoken. He won decisively, and fair and square.
It draws a very clear picture of who we are as a people.
I, for one, find it a very disappointing picture.
And guess what, even though the majority voted against me, I'm still entitled
to that opinion.
>>
Yeah, and it doesn't make you a bad guy either. <g>
Hev
news:cmirp...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Hi Michael,
>
> Just a thought here. Back when we were having our own pre-election debate,
> we were talking about small businesses among other things and I mentioned
> to
> you that I had 4 of them (what was I thinking?) Anyway they are a
> recording
> studio, a graphic arts studio, a horse training operation and a consulting
> firm which, basically, these days, spends 99% of it's time keeping natural
> gas wells and the pipeline infrastructure out of people's yards, forests,
> etc. I live on the northern rim of the 2nd largest natural gas reservoir
> in
> the US. It's called the San Juan Basin and now that the econmy is shifting
> away from oil, this area is undergoing some major transitions because
> these
> gas wells are coalbed methane wells and have the potential to produce for
> 50+ years. The coalbed is a gas generator so they are as coloe to a
> renewable fossil fuel energy resource as exists today.
Doug
I will reply to this over at "rec.audio.opinion" later today or tomorrow.
Pop over there so we can continue the discussion.
Thanks
Animix
I didn't know about this site. VG idea, IMHO. I'll find it and continue
there.
Regards,
Doug
"Hev" <audio...@michaelspringerSUCK.com> wrote in message
news:-YydnZd-2Jx...@comcast.com...
EganMedia
don't get it. If you tell people they are stupid, bigoted, just too scared
to think straight if they vote for the other Party, you come off as harsh,
You don't get it , Will. It's the stupid, bigoted,
just-too-scared-to-think-straight people who believe Saddam had stockpiles of
WMD ready to deploy against us. It's those same people who believe Saddam was
responsible for the 9/11 attacks. It's those same people who agree with dubya
that he is divinely ordained to lead this country on a crusade against Islam.
It's those same people who, despite the massive decficit, think dubya's tax
breaks are helping put the economy back on track. It's those same people who
believe stem cell research and science fiction novels are the work of Satan.
And it's those same people who would rather pretend that Dinosaurs never
existed and the theory of evolution is somehow less compelling than the theory
of gravity.
I realize that rational thought is "out" and religious fervor and blind faith
are "in". I realize that war is bad, and that acting unilaterally in a complex
world serves to undermine alliances gained through years of cooperation and
understanding. Bible thumping, dubya following dullards don't get it. If I
come off as "harsh", how harsh do you soppose dubya seems to a region where
the US and the "coalition of the willing" lob bombs into residential
neighborhoods in the name of freedom and security?
I feel
bad for the stupid, bigoted, just-too-scared-to-think-straight people.
I feel worse for the rest of the world: those of us who have live
under their bible thumping fists.
Pete Dimsman
George Gleason
> Excellent.
>
its also the same people who fought and died , as well as killed , to
prevent integration
it is the same people who see all the UFOs and call the Phil Henry show
The Dittoheads, the people who think "cow chip bingo" is highly entertaining
and Country fried steak is considered "good eatin'"
George
steve
WillStG wrote:
>
> << steve com...@yahoo.com >>
> << I think "appeal" is the wrong term. For the most part, middle America
> seems to be manipulated into voting out of fear, and the Republican
> party is far better at creating issues that make them crazy afraid.
> Saying things like Kerry would ban the Bible is true inspiration when it
> comes to fear mongering.
> >>
>
> Middle America heard that kind of insult thrown their way ad naseum during
> the election, and responded decisively to it at the ballot box. You still
> don't get it. If you tell people they are stupid, bigoted, just too scared
> to think straight if they vote for the other Party, you come off as harsh,
> shrill, unreasonable, manipulative and totally disrespectful for people who
> have honest policy disagreements with you.
That kind of thinking is the problem. People who get their panties in a
wad whenever reality collides with their ideology are exactly the
targets of Rove and co. Part of the manipulation is just what you stated
above, "those immoral liberals are insulting you, they say you're
stupid, etc." The real issues like jobs, healthcare, Social Security,
Federal deficit, how to conduct war on terror and other pressing issues
are glossed over and substituted with gay marriage, prayer in school,
ten commandments. That says to me that Middle America is being led into
having their personal beliefs put ahead of bigger, tougher issues that
our politicians really don't want to deal with. It's not really about
voting for one party or the other, but making both parties step up and
deal with the real issues facing America. As I see it, the strategy is
keeping us divided using ideologues like yourself, while our country
goes further down the drain.
Hev
Extremely nicely put Steve!
Instant runoff voting (http://www.californiaaggie.com/article/?id=6177)
seems like the most popular idea to put the country back in the citizens
hands.
I recommend we move this conversation to rec.audio.opinion
play-on
><< steve com...@yahoo.com >>
><< I think "appeal" is the wrong term. For the most part, middle America
>seems to be manipulated into voting out of fear, and the Republican
>party is far better at creating issues that make them crazy afraid.
>Saying things like Kerry would ban the Bible is true inspiration when it
>comes to fear mongering.
> >>
>
> Middle America heard that kind of insult thrown their way ad naseum during
>the election, and responded decisively to it at the ballot box.
No, they responded out of fear. Fear of terrorism, fear of homos
getting married, fear of "liberals" taxing them to pay for health
care, etc.
You still
>don't get it. If you tell people they are stupid, bigoted, just too scared
>to think straight if they vote for the other Party, you come off as harsh,
>shrill, unreasonable, manipulative and totally disrespectful for people who
>have honest policy disagreements with you.
Speaking of shrill and disrespectful, look who's talking...
May East
play-on
The hurricanes were god's retribution for the stolen election of 2000!
Al
Stephen Sank
Now, if the other side would simply promote the idea that gay marriage also means they might
get to see two women going at each other, a lot more of the males in the so called
"evangelical" group would find gay marriage a lot less offensive.
--
Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
Talking Dog Transducer Company
http://stephensank.com
5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
505-332-0336
Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
Payments preferred through Paypal.com
"play-on" <playonATcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:orfqo0t03v3oijbt6...@4ax.com...
Don Cooper
George Gleason wrote:
> it is the same people who see all the UFOs and call the Phil Henry show
Who's Phil Henry?
Don Cooper
Stephen Sank wrote:
> Not quite fear of homos getting married, rather fear of seeing two men kissing each other.
> Now, if the other side would simply promote the idea that gay marriage also means they might
> get to see two women going at each other, a lot more of the males in the so called
> "evangelical" group would find gay marriage a lot less offensive.
These would be the "Howard Stern Evangelicals".
Tom Paterson
>Stephen Sank wrote:
>
>> Not quite fear of homos getting married, rather fear of seeing two men
>kissing each other.
>> Now, if the other side would simply promote the idea that gay marriage also
>means they might
>> get to see two women going at each other, a lot more of the males in the so
>called
>> "evangelical" group would find gay marriage a lot less offensive.
(DC answered):
>These would be the "Howard Stern >Evangelicals".
Maybe Jimmy (Repeat Offender) Swaggart.
Of course, he was more of a participator than observer, at least according to
news sources. --TP
WillStG
<< That kind of thinking is the problem. People who get their panties in a
wad whenever reality collides with their ideology are exactly the
targets of Rove and co. Part of the manipulation is just what you stated
above, "those immoral liberals are insulting you, they say you're
stupid, etc." >>
Shit Steve. I don't need Karl Rove to tell me that the DNC and their
minions "are insulting me", all I need to do is log on here to this *audio
newsgroup* and I have seen it firsthand, every damn day. Karl Rove's
manipulations? Bullshit. The disrespect and insults have been constant, the
condescention and derision and "holier than thou" pontificating from all the
true believers on the left. So don't give me that crap spin - the people who
kicked the ass of the Democractic Party at the polls have all experienced the
same thing, and people are sick of it.
<< The real issues like jobs, healthcare, Social Security,
Federal deficit, how to conduct war on terror and other pressing issues
are glossed over and substituted with gay marriage, prayer in school,
ten commandments. That says to me that Middle America is being led into
having their personal beliefs put ahead of bigger, tougher issues that
our politicians really don't want to deal with. It's not really about
voting for one party or the other, but making both parties step up and
deal with the real issues facing America. As I see it, the strategy is
keeping us divided using ideologues like yourself, while our country
goes further down the drain. >>
And so you further insult the electorate. You are in denial. A lot of
people are tired of being insulted and talked down to, and they trust people
who do that about as far as they can throw them. *AND* they disagree with you
on the issues, and do not care if you approve of that or not.
Get used to it, get over it, and get over yourself.
Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audioist / Fox News
WillStG
<< You don't get it , Will. It's the stupid, bigoted,
just-too-scared-to-think-straight people
You continue on the path that lost your Party the Presidential election,
4 seats in the House and in the Senate, and a Governorship. By all means
continue, and you will lose even more badly next time - when someone like
Guiliani who is proficient at public speaking and can actually debate well
runs.
To be frank, as stupid as you think Dubya is, as stupid as I have been
constantly told here that I am for supporting him, he kicked your asses at the
polls. So how pathetic must you guys be, if a moron like Dubya and dumbasses
such as me whupped you so bad?
Better now to reflect more and talk less, and learn from your mistakes.
But I'm not holding my breath.
WillStG
<< its also the same people who fought and died , as well as killed , to
prevent integration >>
Jeez. Southern Democrats were the ones who opposed Abraham Lincoln,
Republicans were the ones who wanted to end slavery, Southern Democrats were
the main Party opposing integration, those Southern Sherriffs beating marchers
and sicing attack dogs on them were "Dixiecrats", it was Republicans who moved
the Civil Rights act through Congress.
And Bush gained in the Black Vote, in the Hispanic Vote a _lot_, and in
the female Vote. As he should have, for no Democrat ever cared enough to
appoint as many minorities to prominent Administration positions as did
President Bush.
Condie is still really hoping someday to get the NFL Commissioner gig...
Pete Dimsman
WillStG wrote:
> Bullshit. The disrespect and insults have been constant, the
> condescention and derision and "holier than thou" pontificating from all the
> true believers on the left. So don't give me that crap spin - the people who
> kicked the ass of the Democractic Party at the polls have all experienced the
> same thing, and people are sick of it.
Man, are you looking in a mirror or what? I truly think you are psychotic.
George Gleason
Find your Dr.dean Edell AM radio chAnnel and tune in at 11 pm
George
George Gleason
> << George Gleason g.p.g...@worldnet.att.net >>
> << its also the same people who fought and died , as well as killed , to
> prevent integration >>
>
> Jeez. Southern Democrats were the ones who opposed Abraham Lincoln,
>
The people who voted "republican" in the 1840 are now called "democrats"
In in fact was not talking party but poiunted out that the areas
supporting Bush, his core supporters live basically in Dumbville
and the great majority of them , hook-line and sinker aNY stupid shit
the president said beacuse he hates homos
and every one knows it is Gods will to hate homos
George
play-on
><< The real issues like jobs, healthcare, Social Security,
>Federal deficit, how to conduct war on terror and other pressing issues
>are glossed over and substituted with gay marriage, prayer in school,
>ten commandments. That says to me that Middle America is being led into
>having their personal beliefs put ahead of bigger, tougher issues that
>our politicians really don't want to deal with. It's not really about
>voting for one party or the other, but making both parties step up and
>deal with the real issues facing America. As I see it, the strategy is
>keeping us divided using ideologues like yourself, while our country
>goes further down the drain. >>
>
> And so you further insult the electorate. You are in denial. A lot of
>people are tired of being insulted and talked down to, and they trust people
>who do that about as far as they can throw them. *AND* they disagree with you
>on the issues, and do not care if you approve of that or not.
"Insult the electorate"? Where do you get this crap. Face it -- the
gay marriage, prayer in school, prayer in the pledge, etc, etc --
these issues are red herrings compared to thing like America now
ranking 24th on the list of ecomonic equity between richest and
poorest. The only two industrialized nations with a larger gap
between the rich and poor are Mexico and Russia. Welcome to the
future. If "the electorate" are insulted by someone pointing out some
of the real problems in this country, too bad. Reality Bites.
Luke Danger
play-on
><< egan...@aol.com (EganMedia) >>
><< You don't get it , Will. It's the stupid, bigoted,
>just-too-scared-to-think-straight people
>SNIP >>
>
> You continue on the path that lost your Party the Presidential election,
>4 seats in the House and in the Senate, and a Governorship. By all means
>continue, and you will lose even more badly next time - when someone like
>Guiliani who is proficient at public speaking and can actually debate well
>runs.
Guilian will never have a prayer at becoming president.
>
> To be frank, as stupid as you think Dubya is, as stupid as I have been
>constantly told here that I am for supporting him, he kicked your asses at the
>polls. So how pathetic must you guys be, if a moron like Dubya and dumbasses
>such as me whupped you so bad?
Bush is an idiot, a rich boy. But the people who plan for him and
support him are intelligent and cunning. As far as your own
intelligence, no comment.
Otis McSpeed
Don Cooper
George Gleason wrote:
> > Who's Phil Henry?
>
> Find your Dr.dean Edell AM radio chAnnel and tune in at 11 pm
Thanks.
Don Cooper
play-on wrote:
> Bush is an idiot, a rich boy. But the people who plan for him and
> support him are intelligent and cunning.
I see a new generation thinking they don't need to learn. The part they
don't realize, is that you need to start with a lot of money, and maybe
then, you don't need to learn.
It's a bad message to send to them.
play-on
><< George Gleason g.p.g...@worldnet.att.net >>
><< its also the same people who fought and died , as well as killed , to
>prevent integration >>
>
> Jeez. Southern Democrats were the ones who opposed Abraham Lincoln,
>Republicans were the ones who wanted to end slavery, Southern Democrats were
>the main Party opposing integration, those Southern Sherriffs beating marchers
>and sicing attack dogs on them were "Dixiecrats", it was Republicans who moved
>the Civil Rights act through Congress.
Yeah? Take a look at these two maps:
https://home.comcast.net/~playon/slave_states.jpg
Coincidence? I think not.
Junior Turlock
Hev
Wow. That is an extremely interesting comparison. I will pass that one on to
friends for sure.
EganMedia
*He* is the caller(s) as well as the host. That's what makes the show so damn
funny.
EganMedia
>election,
>4 seats in the House and in the Senate, and a Governorship.
Okay, fine. Lets try the Republican's path:
Terrorism, Terrorism, Terrorism. Osama Bin Saddam Terrrorism. 911 Terrorism,
Saddam 911. God good, Allah bad. Terrorism 911. Free money 911. Terrorism
free money. God hates fags and terrorism Saddam free money. Stem cells are
killing babies. Saddam and Osama kill babies. Kerry for president.
George Gleason
> Point well taken George, but you need to learn a little about Phil Hendrie.
> *He* is the caller(s) as well as the host. That's what makes the show so damn
> funny.
>
>
>
but the other hot heads I though were real callers
George
EganMedia
but the other hot heads I though were real callers
Gotcha. The other callers are *real*. I thought you were referring to
Hendrie's obnoxious redneck "guests".
play-on
Yeah... If you download the graphic it will display better than it
does in the browser.
Al
Luke Kaven
[...]
> You make me sick my home state is WA. I'm still trying to figure out when
> ignorant, disgraceful, surrender monkeys and unwashed commies like yourself
> began to hijack a once beautiful city and state.
Kevin, using terms like "surrender monkeys" and "unwashed commies"
(both vacuous terms aside from their hate content) tells us that you
are poisoned with hate. If you have a point to make, please make it
more clearly. Otherwise, your post has to stand for all time as a
monument to the time when hate and hysteria got the better of you.
These things you write here are your life's legacy, and somehow I
don't think it's a fitting one for you.
steve
WillStG wrote:
> I don't need Karl Rove to tell me that the DNC and their
> minions "are insulting me", all I need to do is log on here to this *audio
> newsgroup* and I have seen it firsthand, every damn day. Karl Rove's
> manipulations? Bullshit. The disrespect and insults have been constant, the
> condescention and derision and "holier than thou" pontificating from all the
> true believers on the left.
Will, we all see what you bait your hook with, don't blame the creek
you're fishing in.
>So don't give me that crap spin - the people who
> kicked the ass of the Democractic Party at the polls have all experienced the
> same thing, and people are sick of it.
That's not why Bush got the majority, they voted for his "moral values".
The majority of his supporters take no effort to learn the facts of what
Bush is actually doing.
> A lot of
> people are tired of being insulted and talked down to, and they trust people
> who do that about as far as they can throw them. *AND* they disagree with you
> on the issues, and do not care if you approve of that or not.
>
Good, maybe they'll get tired enough to get off their lazy asses and
find out for themselves what's happening around the world and quit
accepting the constant stream of bullshit from both sides.
Seattle Eric
Hah! >>I<< think it is! Let the word go out, KLB is an idiot.
agent86
While we're practicing cartography, take a lok at this map as well:
Pete Dimsman
agent86 wrote:
> While we're practicing cartography, take a lok at this map as well:
>
> http://www.drunkreport.com/reports/godhatesbush.htm
That is amazing!
WillStG
<< That's not why Bush got the majority, they voted for his "moral values".
The majority of his supporters take no effort to learn the facts of what
Bush is actually doing. >>
People beleive that there is such a thing as good and evil - that is what
"moral values" means. And they decided that they prefer President Bush as the
man to lead the fight for the greater good. If the condescention and self
superior attitude that so prevades your poltical party is not helping you to
gain the public's trust, perhaps it is a good time for self reflection.
<< Good, maybe they'll get tired enough to get off their lazy asses and
find out for themselves what's happening around the world and quit
accepting the constant stream of bullshit from both sides.
>>
People DID "get off their lazy asses" as you put it in record numbers,
they did so and kicked *yours* off the curb at the polls. Time to face the
hard truth Steve, the Democratic Party has no inherent *birthright* to govern
this Country politically, you have to earn the respect of the whole of the
American people. And you will NEVER do that with an arrogant, condescending
attitude and a constant stream of insults and put downs, people look at that
and say "I have enough of people like that at work and at the DMV, I don't need
Politicians who should have a service attitude giving me a shitty attitude, as
if I personally am obligated to vote for them."
But there is no reason to continue trying to give you advice on rebuilding
your Party.
R Krizman
constantly told here that I am for supporting him, he kicked your asses at the
polls. So how pathetic must you guys be, if a moron like Dubya and dumbasses
In all honesty Will, I don't see where you had much to do with it. I'm
guessing you voted in a state that went for Kerry.
But I do agree with you that it's pathetic that a moron such as Bush succeeded
in winning a second term.
-R
Luke Kaven
His recent posts have pushed some hate buttons, but in other places he
is a bit more even-handed, and I'm suggesting that this (from earlier
this week) is his better nature:
"Agreed. FWIW the rhetoric, hyperbole, and angst that's gone on here,
including from myself is based solely on idealogical differences. I
have no
genuine malice toward anyone, including those I've been less than
gentlemanly to. Yes, I totally disagree, in fact am diametrically
opposed to
the liberal viewpoint, but believe me I have no *hate* towards anyone,
outside of a superficial vigorous defense of my beliefs. So, in
closing,
congratulations to America for a clean, fair, election.
Ps. I was very impressed with Senator Kerry's concession speech. It's
too
bad that attitude doesn't purvey the whole process, and I include the
conservative side, even myself in that statement."
Jerry Gerber
Republican parties are hopelessly sold out to corporate interests and both
are in love with the idea of the American Empire, Powerhouse Leader of the
World (whether you like it nor not).
Bush is corrupt, WillSTG cannot see that. He is a war criminal, a mass
murderer of thousands of innocent Iraqis. He lied to get us into Iraq,
everyone who cares about facts knows he lied. The facts of 9-11 don't fit
either, if you have any regard for the laws of physics. The voting
machines (all four major companies) are owned by big contributing
Republicans who believe it is acceptable to privatize voting, privatize your
DNA, privatize all the water, and if they don't own it, or the corporations
who feed their power addictions don't own it, they'll send the U.S. military
to destroy and kill whatever gets in their way so they can just steal it.
The UN has officially stated this is an illegal war. Doesn't this mean
anything to you? I suppose you think the U.N. is a girlee-man organization
because they came into being in order to replace the dogs of war with the
hope of non-violent conflict resolution, something the neocons look down
upon in their predator state of superiority. The are weaklings! They're
armed and dangerous, but at the core they are weak because of their need to
dominate the world. And this is what they are doing because they believe
they can get away with it.
Americans and their pious loyalty! Americans and their nationalistic
morality! Put yourself into the shoes of the Iraqi man who has never fired
a gun, never supported any kind of violence, someone who wants to raise his
family, live a meaningful life. What the hell would you do if your city
was being bombed every hour, and American tanks had their guns pointed at
your cars every day? Would you not fight the aggressors? Would you not
sacrifice for your nation's integrity and culture? The American military
is up against a force whose hearts and minds will NOT be won. We, by our
bellicosity, shallowness and strategic incompetence have assured that
outcome, and the facts on the ground support this.
The American contribution to the state of the world is to respond to evil
with greater evil, the opposite of Jesusonian principles. This is not the
work of a Christian administration, this is the work of a soulless, cynical,
narcisstic craving to gain more power and more wealth and give corporate
American what rightfully belongs to the COMMONWEALTH, the public good.
As it is said, "The argumentative defense of any proposition is inversely
proportional to the truth contained"
Jerry Gerber
"WillStG" <wil...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20041108021805...@mb-m01.aol.com...
Bill Van Dyk
ballots for G. W., only about 15% believe that abortion should be illegal.
So why all this discussion about whether Bush will appoint a pro or anti
abortion Supreme Court Justice? How can he possibly appoint someone who
is anti-abortion, if almost 85% of voters are actually pro-choice?
Because that 15% will squawk louder than any other special interest group?
Strange world. More people were clearly apposed to gay marriage-- which
isn't exactly a life or death issue-- than abortion, which is.
It's hard to avoid getting very cynical about politics. Bush can't
prevent a single person from being gay, but he can damn well shift the
burden of paying for all those expensive military adventures from the
rich to the middle class, which he did, and he can create a $500 billion
a year liability to be passed on to your children, which he did, and he
can allow corporations to pollute at will and denude our forests, which
he did, with impunity. But we elected him because he stands for "moral
values"?
How did he do it? By making people think they were voting on gay
marriage or Osama bin Laden or that frat boy smirk?
So the lesson for the Democrats in 2008 is: forget the damn issues. Get
someone with a likable smirk. Then find a stealth issue and flog it for
all it's worth. Then attack the character of your opponent. The
flip-flop issue is great, because any thoughtful person can always be
accused of having learned something at some point in his life, and is
therefore likely to have "flip-flopped". It's impervious to reason. It
provides people with an explanation for their irrational dislike of your
opponent.
As a stealth issue, I suggest education. We're always falling behind.
Claim that there is a "crisis", that the world is getting smarter than
Americans (hmmm-- can you prove that?), and that action must be taken
now. And crime-- everyone knows it's getting worse. Come out ahead of
the Republican's as tougher on crime, and then accuse them of
flip-flopping on capital punishment-- come now! Is it the electric
chair or lethal injection? Why can't you make up your minds?
Find some criminal who murdered someone after being released from prison
and blame it on the Republicans. Describe the crime in great detail to
evoke indignation and horror. Suggest that the criminal was "married"
to a fellow inmate: you will put a stop to gay prison marriages!
Then offer to give everyone a check for a $1,000. Really. It's easy--
just borrow it.
EganMedia
<< Just saw some polling data that showed that of the 59 million who cast
ballots for G. W., only about 15% believe that abortion should be illegal.>>
I think it's unlikely abortion will be made illegal in the US. I'd like to see
the abortion statistics in "red" states. My hunch is that they don't lag far
behind the "blue" ones. When Verna gets herself in trouble with Cletus down by
the swimmin' hole after Sunday School, I'd bet she's as likely to seek out a
good clinic for a D&C as her less fanatically religious counteparts in the
"blue" states.
Just a hunch, but I'm going to look into it.
David Morgan (MAMS)
"EganMedia" <egan...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20041108120516...@mb-m27.aol.com...
I went to have a prescription filled last night... (haven't had a script for anything
in years), and sat waiting across from the pharmacy desk. As I looked toward
the counter, there were three, four-foot width shelves spanning the distance
from the drop-off window to the pick-up window. Each set of shelves was
four feet in width and 6 shelves in height. On the first set of shelves, there
was every male birth control product ever made by Trojan. On the second
set of shelves was every feasable early pregnancy test kit ever devised. On
the third set of shelves was every feasable female birth control item under
the sun, from spray foams to pills, to diaphragms.
That's 12 linear feet by a little over four feet in height of shelf space, totally
dedicated to products made for 'preventative' fucking.
No... somehow I don't think abortion will be made illegal, either.
DM
squig
> << You still
> don't get it. If you tell people they are stupid, bigoted, just too
scared
> to think straight if they vote for the other Party, you come off as harsh,
> >><BR><BR>
>
>
> You don't get it , Will. It's the stupid, bigoted,
of
> WMD ready to deploy against us. It's those same people who believe Saddam
was
> responsible for the 9/11 attacks. It's those same people who agree with
dubya
> that he is divinely ordained to lead this country on a crusade against
Islam.
> It's those same people who, despite the massive decficit, think dubya's
tax
> breaks are helping put the economy back on track. It's those same people
who
> believe stem cell research and science fiction novels are the work of
Satan.
> And it's those same people who would rather pretend that Dinosaurs never
> existed and the theory of evolution is somehow less compelling than the
theory
> of gravity.
>
>
>
>
> I realize that rational thought is "out" and religious fervor and blind
faith
> are "in". I realize that war is bad, and that acting unilaterally in a
complex
> world serves to undermine alliances gained through years of cooperation
and
> understanding. Bible thumping, dubya following dullards don't get it. If
I
> come off as "harsh", how harsh do you soppose dubya seems to a region
where
> the US and the "coalition of the willing" lob bombs into residential
> neighborhoods in the name of freedom and security?
>
>
> I
feel
> bad for the stupid, bigoted, just-too-scared-to-think-straight people.
>
>
>
> I feel worse for the rest of the world: those of us who have
live
> under their bible thumping fists.During his presidency, Clinton was one of those "stupid, bigoted,
just-too-scared-to-think-straight" people who believed Saddam was piling up
WMD's.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/18/iraq.political.analysis/
He had his administration believing it, too.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.htm
His administration also believed there was a connection between Saddam and
Bin Laden.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040624-112921-3401r.htm
So if our intelligence was off-base, we can partly blame Clinton for it --
he just passed the information on to Bush.
squig
George Gleason
why can't you make GW take responsibility for HIS actions
If Clinton told GW the sky was green it would still be GW's
responsibility to analyze that information before acting on it
Why can't you give GW the privledge of standing up for what he has done?
you act like he was a marionette and Clinton was still pulling the strings
So which is it
GW was president and responsible for his own decision
or is he a dupe of the liberal agenda
George
squig
news:j66dnSOMhqA...@comcast.com...
> "steve" <com...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:418D247A...@yahoo.com...
> >
> >
> > WillStG wrote:
> >>
> >> << steve com...@yahoo.com >>
> >> << I think "appeal" is the wrong term. For the most part, middle
America
> >> seems to be manipulated into voting out of fear, and the Republican
> >> party is far better at creating issues that make them crazy afraid.
> >> Saying things like Kerry would ban the Bible is true inspiration when
it
> >> comes to fear mongering.
> >> >>
> >>
> >> Middle America heard that kind of insult thrown their way ad naseum
> >> during
> >> the election, and responded decisively to it at the ballot box. You
> >> still
> >> don't get it. If you tell people they are stupid, bigoted, just too
> >> scared
> >> to think straight if they vote for the other Party, you come off as
> >> harsh,
> >> who
> >> have honest policy disagreements with you.
> >
> > That kind of thinking is the problem. People who get their panties in a
> > wad whenever reality collides with their ideology are exactly the
> > targets of Rove and co. Part of the manipulation is just what you stated
> > above, "those immoral liberals are insulting you, they say you're
> > stupid, etc." The real issues like jobs, healthcare, Social Security,
> > Federal deficit, how to conduct war on terror and other pressing issues
> > are glossed over and substituted with gay marriage, prayer in school,
> > ten commandments. That says to me that Middle America is being led into
> > having their personal beliefs put ahead of bigger, tougher issues that
> > our politicians really don't want to deal with. It's not really about
> > voting for one party or the other, but making both parties step up and
> > deal with the real issues facing America. As I see it, the strategy is
> > keeping us divided using ideologues like yourself, while our country
> > goes further down the drain.
>
>
> Extremely nicely put Steve!
>
> Instant runoff voting (http://www.californiaaggie.com/article/?id=6177)
> seems like the most popular idea to put the country back in the citizens
> hands.
>
> I recommend we move this conversation to rec.audio.opinionIf we had done this in 1992, Clinton may not have been elected President
since Perot received 19% of the vote in 1992 and almost 8% in 1996, and a
majority of them stolen from the Republican vote.
We kicked the Bible and any mention of God out of school and see how much
we've progressed since then. I'm not for shoving religion down anybody's
throat but there are some good lesson's to be learned from the Bible. All I
ask is that I am afforded the same right to share what I believe as those
who don't believe are able to do.
Pete Dimsman
squig wrote:
> We kicked the Bible and any mention of God out of school and see how much
> we've progressed since then. I'm not for shoving religion down anybody's
> throat but there are some good lesson's to be learned from the Bible. All I
> ask is that I am afforded the same right to share what I believe as those
> who don't believe are able to do.
B.S. Though shall not kill? Commit adultry? etc.etc.? We need the bible
to tell us this?
Maybe the bible is the problem. Some people tend to do whatever they are
told not to do.
George Gleason
So invite them to your church
Public school by law protects us from having to live under your god, as
it should
George
squig
news:2va62qF...@uni-berlin.de...
buildings. Soon, we'll be having to hold church underground. Evidently,
there is still a good number of people who haven't learned "thou shall not
kill" and "thou shalt not commit adultery".
Pete Dimsman
squig wrote:
> Evidently,
> there is still a good number of people who haven't learned "thou shall not
> kill" and "thou shalt not commit adultery".
But those people aren't going to change their minds by reading the
bible. Especially with all the church leaders setting such a fine
example by molesting the kids.