Anybody having same problems with Behringer mixers?

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Anybody having same problems with Behringer mixers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ddwGDdhTdY
please post.

[Don Pearce]

You have warrantees to cover this sort of thing. Why did you buy a
second one?

Cool effect, by the way.

d

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

I bought the 1st one USED. Problem appears at random times for no apparent reason.
I though it was bad unit, so I got the second one BRAND NEW!
Surprise! Exactly the SAME PROBLEM AGAIN.

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message
news:a0605a3f-82e9-42cd...@googlegroups.com...

So send it back, you'll get a new one, it is under warranty.
3 years, I believe, if you can be bothered to register it.

What exactly is your problem?



Gareth.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

Look at the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ddwGDdhTdY
It is 100% design flaw.
There is nothing any bench technician can do unless the FX chip or entire motherboard is upgraded.
I emailed Behringer about upgrade and got only auto-response.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/28/2013 9:03 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> There is nothing any bench technician can do unless the FX chip or entire motherboard is upgraded.
> I emailed Behringer about upgrade and got only auto-response.

This is a problem that your dealer should take care of. Take it back to
him, show him the problem, ask him to get another one from stock ant
check it out. If that one is broken as well, get your money back and buy
something else.

It's possible that they got some bad chips, or maybe they hadn't fully
adapted their production line to lead-free soldering yet and there's a
bad solder joint. Surely they wouldn't let a design like that get out of
the factory. But, yes, it does sound pretty bad.

But let me ask this - where's the master level pot set, and where's the
monitor volume set? If you were to run a normal level signal through the
mixer with those settings and the input gain set so that the channel
level is correct, would it be at a reasonable listening volume, or would
it blow your speakers or your ears?


--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Exactly the same problem in 3 different units? Because of bad solder joint?
All bought far apart in time!
Far out!
I have 2 of them:
RX1202FX (Serial # N1000158486, Date Code 1001)
RX1202FX (Serial # S1006617486, Date Code 1012)
with EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM!

No pots or sliders or switches on the unit have ANY EFFECT ON THE PROBLEM (tried every single one 100x). Only FX master knob even on min volume (And master volume slider, of course).
Stores do not stock them and trying one in the store won't work since the problem appears intermittently for no apparent reason.

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

[Peter Larsen]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:6c228460-91ec-4946...@googlegroups.com...

> Exactly the same problem in 3 different units? Because of bad solder
> joint?
> All bought far apart in time!
> Far out!
> I have 2 of them:
> RX1202FX (Serial # N1000158486, Date Code 1001)
> RX1202FX (Serial # S1006617486, Date Code 1012)
> with EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM!
>
> No pots or sliders or switches on the unit have ANY EFFECT ON THE PROBLEM
> (tried every single one 100x). Only FX master knob even on min volume (And
> master volume slider, of course).
> Stores do not stock them and trying one in the store won't work since the
> problem appears intermittently for no apparent reason.

Send in for warranty repair then or return for a refund and move on in your
life.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse

news:b903b949-38ce-48b1...@googlegroups.com...

> Anybody having same problems with Behringer mixers:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ddwGDdhTdY

> please post.

You say that the world pro is on the box, so it is pro. Sorry, that is not
how the world is, if the word is on the box then it is most likely the only
pro about it. Behringer consistently makes some good products, but it is a
budget brand, and what budget brands save on is always button and switch or
connector quality ...

Some people are oompatible with buying Behringer stuff, you do not seem to
be one of them.

Go for Soundcraft instead.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

3 units with the exactly the SAME PROBLEM?
Doesn't look like "button and switch or connector quality" problem.
That is definitely design flaw!

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/28/2013 10:43 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:
> Exactly the same problem in 3 different units? Because of bad solder joint?
> All bought far apart in time!

Three of them?

Software isn't intermittent. There must be a problem that can be fixed,
but it may be a production problem that can only be fixed at the factory
or an official service center (if there are any). Sometimes it takes a
little digging in order to find out how to get a faulty product repaired.

Do you have one that's under warranty? That's the one that you should
have fixed, but you have to initiate the warranty repair. It may take a
phone call.

[Les Cargill]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 7/28/2013 10:43 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Exactly the same problem in 3 different units? Because of bad solder
>> joint?
>> All bought far apart in time!
>
> Three of them?
>
> Software isn't intermittent.

Yes, it is. Frequently.

> There must be a problem that can be fixed,
> but it may be a production problem that can only be fixed at the factory
> or an official service center (if there are any). Sometimes it takes a
> little digging in order to find out how to get a faulty product repaired.
>
> Do you have one that's under warranty? That's the one that you should
> have fixed, but you have to initiate the warranty repair. It may take a
> phone call.
>
>

--

Les Cargill

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

Yes 3 of them!

I have 2 of them:
RX1202FX (Serial # N1000158486, Date Code 1001)
RX1202FX (Serial # S1006617486, Date Code 1012)

And when I posted the problem on Behriner users forum another guy reported EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM!
http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?1284-Problems-with-RX1202FX

The unit I bought brand new just ran out of warranty, so I am stuck with 2 lemmons from Behringer.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <b903b949-38ce-48b1...@googlegroups.com>,

Professional equipment doesn't say "Pro" on the box. Whenever you see
"Pro" on the box, you can believe that it's amateur gear.

What you describe is probably noise on the grounds from the effects
processor leaking into other stages. Odds are that if you put a
microphone on an input, it won't be quite so loud. Just mute unused
channels.

This is the absolute cheapest bargain basement gear. You should be pleased
that it works at all given how cheaply it is made.

It might be possible for a technician to add some additional decoupling
capacitors around the effects system to quiet the grounds and rails down.
But it's really not worth the trouble to work on equipment this cheap
because as soon as you fix one thing, you notice something else.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/29/2013 8:15 AM, Les Cargill wrote:

>> Software isn't intermittent.
> Yes, it is. Frequently.

No, it isn't. The environment is intermittent.

[Les Cargill]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On 7/29/2013 8:15 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
>
>>> Software isn't intermittent.
>> Yes, it is. Frequently.
>
> No, it isn't. The environment is intermittent.
>
>
>

*Sigh* Software can be, and frequently is intermittent.
Trust me on this...

--
Les Cargill

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/29/2013 10:40 AM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> And when I posted the problem on Behriner users forum another guy reported EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM!

> The unit I bought brand new just ran out of warranty, so I am stuck with 2 lemmons from Behringer.

You got a response (two, actually) from a customer support person at
Behringer. They want your unit (or units) to study the problem. Don't
worry about them being just out of warranty. Get them into the hands of
the people who can help. They aren't doing you any good, and we sure
can't help you.

If you didn't get a useful reply from CA...@music-group.com try again.
Point them to the forum thread and ask where and how to ship your units
off to get the suspicious board replaced. Don't tell them they have a
design problem. There may be a manufacturing engineering problem that
causes the intermittent behavior, and the best way they can fix that is
to study known defective units.

Don't waste your time bitching here, do something pro-active to help
yourself and other users of Behringer products that share the same
effects circuit board.

[Ron C]

Examples please.

==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

[Les Cargill]

Oh dear.... really? Not sure where to start, really...

Do you have access to a cable modem? A wireless access point?
A windows machine? An Ethernet port on said windows machine?

All of these things will need to be rebooted when
their internal state gets corrupted.

If you want intermittent to mean exactly the same thing
as a microphonic connection then you're too focused.


--
Les Cargill

[HIO]

On 7/29/2013 8:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Professional equipment doesn't say "Pro" on the box. Whenever you see
> "Pro" on the box, you can believe that it's amateur gear.

Like Pro Tools.




--
Here In Oregon

Twitter: I don't tweet, I leave that to the birds.
MySpace: Then put a lock on it.
Facebook: Ever hear of the term identity theft?

[hank alrich]

What Mike said. Keep in mind that one's behavior may generate a positive
or negative response from those capable of offering assistance. A good
attitude and restraint in thinking one is qualified to assess the root
of a problem can go a long way in the direction of satisfactory
resolution.

All Behringer kit is not created alike. Years ago Behringer replaced a
couple of DEQ2496's I'd installed in a dance studio, which failed just
out of warranty. The replacement units are still working, as are the
others that were installed. This is roughly six years of 12 to 16 hour
days, 360+ days a year.

A wide variety of causes may underlie this type of repeated failure. The
Great Capacitor Formula Robbery comes to mind, a situation that affected
electronics of very many types from lots of manufacturers, for a long
time.

Diagnosis is unlikely if one does not have the failed examples to
examine. Short of that it's guesswork, and welcome to the innernut.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

I don't mind sending them the unit if they pay for shipping.
Both units are out of warranty.
Do I suppose to pay extra for Behringers blunders after I am stuck with 2 lemons?

I wouldn't mind sending them both units after my Mackie comes in (I am still using one on the gigs).
But than why would I need Behringers at all?
Honest manufacturers suppose to recall defective products and eve issue REFUNDS.

UPDATE:
Found one more customer with the EXACTLY SAME PROBLEM:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/contr...

By nucci1960 from Laguna, CA
That's 4 units with EXACTLY the SAME PROBLEM and still counting....

[Don Pearce]

Why are these units out of warranty? As a customer you have a
responsibility to return defective goods in a timely manner. Bitching
here about failed stuff that is out of warranty isn't going to win you
much sympathy. It cost you very little, so ditch it and move on.

d

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

If you paid attention to the video there was NOTHING plugged into the mixer and all the sliders and trim pots at "0". It sounds EXACTLY the same even when I unplug XLR OUTs and listen via headphone output.
Any possibility of ground loop is ZERO, ZILCH, NADA!

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

There is no separate FX circuit board inside. And no plug in chips on the board.
Everything is soldered on one single board. There is nothing and bench technician can do to fix the problem

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <kt6bkk$unu$1...@dont-email.me>, HIO <herein...@nospam.net> wrote:
>On 7/29/2013 8:53 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Professional equipment doesn't say "Pro" on the box. Whenever you see
>> "Pro" on the box, you can believe that it's amateur gear.
>
>Like Pro Tools.

Yes, sadly enough.

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message
news:56d1bb63-2375-416c...@googlegroups.com...

I think you are replying to Scott, who did not say there was a ground loop,
you just made that bit up.
I have witnessed many a time a cheap FX daughter board in cheap gear causing
all sorts of nasty noises by transmitting its chatter down the cheap ground
and power supply lines.


Anyway, I think you ought to go find yourself a Kitten, and spend some time
playing with it. You will feel a lot better.

Then contemplate buying a Neve instead, you may gain a little perspective.



Gareth.

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

ssmus...@gmail.com <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> UPDATE:
> Found one more customer with the EXACTLY SAME PROBLEM:

So what? Class action lawsuit? Or just more pissing and moaning?

You've got all the advice one could reasonably give you on this forum.
Now, act accordingly or carry on and make a major nuisance of yourself.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - K�ln/Cologne, Germany
Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web : http://www.fotoralf.de

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

There is no daughter board inside. Not even single chip socket. Everything is on one single motherboard soldered in solid. I even cleaned every possible plug in connector. And I used both units in dozens of different venues with same results. There are already 4 units out there (and still counting) with EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM. Need more evidence of design flaw?

[Don Pearce]

Seriously. All you have told us is that you are incapable of learning
from experience. If that doesn't teach you, we certainly can't.

d

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Dah......
Somebody from Behringer website just posted on my video with the promise to solve the problem to my satisfaction.

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

ssmus...@gmail.com <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are already 4 units out there (and still counting) with EXACTLY
> THE SAME PROBLEM. Need more evidence of design flaw?

Four out of how many thousand?

Yes, we do indeed need more evidence. Come back if you've found... what
shall we say... 400 faulty units?

[Tobiah]

On 07/29/2013 10:37 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
> Ron C wrote:
>> On 7/29/2013 1:15 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
>>> Mike Rivers wrote:
>>>> On 7/29/2013 8:15 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Software isn't intermittent.
>>>>> Yes, it is. Frequently.
>>>>
>>>> No, it isn't. The environment is intermittent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> *Sigh* Software can be, and frequently is intermittent.
>>> Trust me on this...
>>>
>> Examples please.

A multi-track recorder uses a different thread for
each track. As it turns out, those threads need to
access some global setting like tempo. Normally the
check so seldom, a million clock cycles go by in between.
The programmer forgot to make the tempo setting thread
safe, and once every hundredth time the use adjusts the
tempo slider *while playing* two threads contend for the
same resource, and one can't handle it and borks out.

Easy for the programmer to fix if it ever happens to
him while testing.

[Bob Quintal]

"ssmus...@gmail.com" <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:493493bd-5c62-4bcb...@googlegroups.com:

>
> There is no separate FX circuit board inside. And no plug in chips
> on the board. Everything is soldered on one single board. There is
> nothing and bench technician can do to fix the problem
>

Baloney!

Competent bench technicians can repair solder joints, and replace bad
components soldered to printed circuit boards.

If the problem is diagnosed as a RoHS compliant (e.g. brittle) solder
joint, it may be easy for a competent technician to fix.

If the problem is diagnosed as a bad resistor, it may be easy for a
competent technician to fix.

Q

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Dah..........
And how exactly bad solder joint can cause EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM in 4 different units?

[geoff]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5e3ebc03-78bd-40c3...@googlegroups.com...

Do you want the units fixed, or do you just want to be famous as the guy who
kept whining about a Behringer problem ?

Clearly there is a problem with this unit - maybe a bad batch of some
component, or maladjustment in the manufacturing equipment for a batch.

If they can fix it, good. If not, what do you want - to simply whinge on
forever ? To get a medal ?

geoff

[geoff]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a2f7788c-4b8a-4e11...@googlegroups.com...

How long was the warranty ? Why did you not send it back then, or at least
take/send the new one back to where you bought it ?

You also bought the used one, so either take that back to where you got it,
or send it to your local 'B' distributor and get it fixed. You DID get a
response to you support reequests, but chose not to proceed.

I had a Mackie mixer that stuffed up once. So maybe you should look
upmarket. Oh, I also had a Focusrite Liquid Channel that had a design fault,
so where does that leave you ?!!!

geoff

[Bob Quintal]

"ssmus...@gmail.com" <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:5e3ebc03-78bd-40c3...@googlegroups.com:

>>
>> > on the board. Everything is soldered on one single board. There
>> > is nothing and bench technician can do to fix the problem
>>
>> Baloney!
>>
>>
>>
>> Competent bench technicians can repair solder joints, and replace
>> bad
>>
>> components soldered to printed circuit boards.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the problem is diagnosed as a RoHS compliant (e.g. brittle)
>> solder
>>
>> joint, it may be easy for a competent technician to fix.
>>
>>
>>
>> If the problem is diagnosed as a bad resistor, it may be easy for
>> a
>>
>> competent technician to fix.
>>
>>
>>
>> Q
>
>
>
> Dah..........
> And how exactly bad solder joint can cause EXACTLY THE SAME
> PROBLEM in 4 different units?

One of many possibilities is that one batch of a part (resistor,
capacitor or IC) may have a defect in that a solder pad on that lot
of devices was contaminated with some oil. That part is used in one
place on each board. so each board will have the same problem after
the solder joint corrodes about 4 years after being soldered.

I've seen it happen.

--
Bob Q.
PA is y I've altered my address.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/29/2013 1:37 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

>>>>>> Software isn't intermittent.

> Do you have access to a cable modem? A wireless access point?
> A windows machine? An Ethernet port on said windows machine?
>
> All of these things will need to be rebooted when
> their internal state gets corrupted.

That's not intermittent, it's a known problem that eventually shows up.
It doesn't come and go, it comes stays there until and you reboot,
because you're not smart enough to fix it permanently. And then you
replace it.

> If you want intermittent to mean exactly the same thing
> as a microphonic connection then you're too focused.

No, it's just that I know what "intermittent" means. Software can appear
to be intermittent if, for example, there's a near failure of memory, or
the power supply regulation intermittently goes haywire causing
corrupted data. But code that's running doesn't stop running all by
itself unless there's a coding error, a hardware error, or an operator
error. All of those things can be unpredictable, but unpredictable
doesn't mean the same as intermittent.

In the case of this Behringer mixer, there's apparently a problem with
the effect processor board. Behringer seems to think that replacing it
will solve the problem. There may have been a design change, a bad batch
of components, or an assembly operator who didin't get enough coffee
before coming to work.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/29/2013 2:53 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> There is no separate FX circuit board inside. And no plug in chips on the board.
> Everything is soldered on one single board. There is nothing and bench technician can do to fix the problem

Replace a chip, maybe?

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/29/2013 4:15 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

....
> Somebody from Behringer website just posted on my video with the promise to solve the problem to my satisfaction.

Hopefully he gave you explicit instructions on how to get the mixer from
your place to theirs. And sent you a prepaid shipping label. Keep us
posted.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

I've seen it happen too many times. And in all those cases I was able to quickly find the problem by lightly tapping on the board and re-solder the joint. Not this time.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Replace it with what? Another chip with same problem?

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

If they pay shipping for out of warranty gear, it's perfectly fine with me.
But I am not spending any more money on those things.

[Jason]

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 07:26:19 +0100 "Peter Larsen" <dig...@hotmail.com>
wrote in article <51f60ae0$0$6964$edfa...@dtext01.news.tele.dk>
>
> <ssmus...@gmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:6c228460-91ec-4946...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > Exactly the same problem in 3 different units? Because of bad solder
> > joint?
> > All bought far apart in time!
> > Far out!
> > I have 2 of them:
> > RX1202FX (Serial # N1000158486, Date Code 1001)
> > RX1202FX (Serial # S1006617486, Date Code 1012)
> > with EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM!
> >
> > No pots or sliders or switches on the unit have ANY EFFECT ON THE PROBLEM
> > (tried every single one 100x). Only FX master knob even on min volume (And
> > master volume slider, of course).
> > Stores do not stock them and trying one in the store won't work since the
> > problem appears intermittently for no apparent reason.
>
> Send in for warranty repair then or return for a refund and move on in your
> life.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen

>
> > On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Anybody having same problems with Behringer mixers:
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ddwGDdhTdY
> >>
> >> please post.
> >

I took a look at the YouTube video. There's a recent (4 hours old)
comment from a user "berhinger" promising help.

[geoff]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:383d1aa1-bc30-4059...@googlegroups.com...

>> For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
>
> Replace it with what? Another chip with same problem?

Well wht do you think ? Maybe another chip that doesn't have the same
problem. Or maybe the problem is in the attachment.

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

ssmus...@gmail.com <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>There is no daughter board inside. Not even single chip socket. Everything =
>is on one single motherboard soldered in solid. I even cleaned every possib=
>le plug in connector.

That's how cheap gear is made today. The Mackie 8-buss console is all one
huge board. But that does not mean it cannot be repaired or modified, it
just means it's a bit more work.

If you don't like it, pony up and buy an ATI. There is a reason why the
Behringer costs a tiny fraction of the cost of a professional console.

> And I used both units in dozens of different venues w=
>ith same results. There are already 4 units out there (and still counting) =

>with EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM. Need more evidence of design flaw?

Yes, but do you have the same problem with a terminated input or only
when the input is disconnected?

Or are you routing the output of the effects unit into the same buss that
is driving it?

[Peter Larsen]

Ron C wrote:

> On 7/29/2013 1:15 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

>> Mike Rivers wrote:

>>> On 7/29/2013 8:15 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Software isn't intermittent.

>>>> Yes, it is. Frequently.
>>>
>>> No, it isn't. The environment is intermittent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> *Sigh* Software can be, and frequently is intermittent.
>> Trust me on this...
>>
> Examples please.

Read the manufacturers notes on a computer bios upgrade and remember: all
hardware is ultimately analog, Dave Haynie said so, so it is correct.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

> ==
> Later...
> Ron Capik

--

Peter Larsen
Langeås 20
4281 Gørlev
3582 1612

[geoff]

"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:kt7590$s4h$1...@panix2.panix.com...

> ssmus...@gmail.com <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>There is no daughter board inside. Not even single chip socket. Everything
>>=
>>is on one single motherboard soldered in solid. I even cleaned every
>>possib=
>>le plug in connector.
>
> That's how cheap gear is made today. The Mackie 8-buss console is all one
> huge board. But that does not mean it cannot be repaired or modified, it
> just means it's a bit more work.
>
> If you don't like it, pony up and buy an ATI. There is a reason why the
> Behringer costs a tiny fraction of the cost of a professional console.

But it says "Pro" in the name ;-)

geoff

[Peter Larsen]

ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:20:48 PM UTC-5, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Anybody having same problems with Behringer mixers:

>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ddwGDdhTdY

>> please post.

No, we are not gonna go viral with your witchhunt, cut it, forget it, would
you yourself Sir be so kind as to please behave in a professional manner,
thank you very much!

> If you paid attention to the video there was NOTHING plugged into the
> mixer and all the sliders and trim pots at "0". It sounds EXACTLY the
> same even when I unplug XLR OUTs and listen via headphone output. Any
> possibility of ground loop is ZERO, ZILCH, NADA!

It can be helpful to simply describe the problemm and the circumstances that
accompany it and leaving it at that. Theorizing is not always a good idea.
You first fix to try is to take some plugs of whatever type that plugs into
the contraption and short them, so that hot, cold and ground is tied
together inside the plug, insert them and see if the problem is solved. IF
so, then you have a clear and simple trouble report to Behringer with actual
facts about how the problem behaves AND you yourself have walked one extra
mile, the next extra mile is to pay for shipment.

Put some positive energy into this instead of bashing Behringer all over
cyberspace, yeah - it is almost shamanism, but what you send out comes back
to you, so all that negative energy aint gonna help you no shit, fix your
attitude. And if you don't want to do all of that, then commit the units to
recycling and move on with your life, don't stay stuck in anger over having
bought something cheap that was too cheap for your use.

Any manufacturer wants to solve such issues, they want happy campers, but
give them a chance for doing it. Behringer has in fact been highly
professional to the extent their actions on usenet has been visible over the
years.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen]

ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:


> Dah..........
> And how exactly bad solder joint can cause EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM
> in 4 different units?

Here's one theory: it has to do with the largest chip on the pcb and is in
the left lower corner because the board flexes there when subjected to spl's
above 120 dB C. Paraphrased over one of Phil Allisons very good and patient
explanations of another problem.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen]

ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> There is no daughter board inside. Not even single chip socket.
> Everything is on one single motherboard soldered in solid. I even
> cleaned every possible plug in connector. And I used both units in
> dozens of different venues with same results. There are already 4
> units out there (and still counting) with EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM.
> Need more evidence of design flaw?

OK, so you have used these units in a dozen of venues in spite of them being
faulty and presumeably thus ruining your show? - I don't know about you, but
I do not like hardware to damage my credibility, it either works or goes
somewhere else. Here is why: you can buy hardware if you have money -
obviously you have to make budget and wishes meet, but you can only earn
credibility and it takes 30 years to so do.

I have made sound recordings since 1970, and yes, I have goofed, some of
them have been atrociously poor, I have had to drive home for another ReVox
and make a recording on a quarter track machine, I have had to record a
recital in mono because of equipment failure - I could have raced home for
something else and solved it, but chose not to so as to not disrupt the
pre-concert rehearsal gambling it would be the right choice and had the
quartett say that it so was because the recording was for them and the
concert was for the audience and I have had to call a now late friend and
ask him help because I had forgotten my R44 PSU, I could have run on
batteries, but it would have been a pestulence to have to rush to a gas
station or kiosk and get enough to feel comfy and would have disturbed
pre-concert rehearsal, something I have become very careful about avoiding
since my Microsoft certification exams and starting as a Storyteller.

And you have done "dozens of shows" with broken stuff with a valid warranty
instead of sending it in for repairs?

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Peter Larsen]

ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:


> If they pay shipping for out of warranty gear, it's perfectly fine
> with me. But I am not spending any more money on those things.

If that is your attitude to this, then you should have put them into an
electronics recycling bin long ago.

Behringer has offered to help and you have been doing your damdest to try
and damage their reputation, so here is how to do it: if you do not want to
have damaged only your own reputation you go ask for sending instructions
and pay the postage.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[John Williamson]

That's as may be, but this side of the Atlantic, "Pro" doesn't always
mean "professional", there's another word that starts the same way....

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

"John Williamson" <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:b5pec8...@mid.individual.net...

Smiley !

geoff

PS If it says "Pro" in the name, 9 times out of 10 it isn't.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Behringer offered help AFTER I uploaded the video.
Before that I didn't get much response from them. And they even closed the thread on the subject I put up on their users forum.
http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?1284-Problems-with-RX1202FX

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Entire problem limited to FX processor ONLY.
As long as I don't use it, Mixer section works fine to my satisfaction,
Still perfectly useable as the submixers for live gigs.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

I tried it every possible way. Nothing that I do in mixer section has any effect on FX processor. And there is no way to route FX anywhere. FX processor is hard wired to Mains/Control room. There is only SOLO button that lets you listen FX only on Control outs. It has no effect on the problem.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

There are no large chips anywhere inside. Only tiny ones. And I used that mixer only on the small club/dining room gigs. Nowhere near 120dB. I have different system I use on the large gigs/venues.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

On Monday, July 29, 2013 8:35:28 PM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:

I don't see how any ATI gear would be any help. It has no built in FX processors. And that's where the problem is. With FX off Mixer section works perfectly fine. Still very useable as submixer on any gig.

[Scott Dorsey]

Prolapsis?

[John Williamson]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> John Williamson <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> geoff wrote:
>>> "Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message

>>>> If you don't like it, pony up and buy an ATI. There is a reason why the
>>>> Behringer costs a tiny fraction of the cost of a professional console.
>>> But it says "Pro" in the name ;-)
>>>
>> That's as may be, but this side of the Atlantic, "Pro" doesn't always
>> mean "professional", there's another word that starts the same way....
>
> Prolapsis?
>

<Grin> Let's just say that some women are pro's in both senses of the word.

[Les Cargill]

Swooosh!

"Ma - he's got sweatbands!" - paraphrased from Erma Bombeck in some
thrift store book from last century.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill]

Pro bono? Because most Behringer stuff is not used to make
money...

--
Les Cargill

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/29/2013 6:55 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Replace a chip, maybe?

> Replace it with what? Another chip with same problem?

No, another chip that's soldered in by hand and carefully inspected. And
while he's at it, inspect the rest of the board for bad solder joints.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/30/2013 6:03 AM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> Entire problem limited to FX processor ONLY.
> As long as I don't use it, Mixer section works fine to my satisfaction,
> Still perfectly useable as the submixers for live gigs.

This may be different on modern digital consoles (which have their own
set of problems) but every mixer that I've known about that has a
built-in effect unit has been compromised in one way or another. They
want to add this feature for people who want it, but they don't want to
make the mixer any more expensive because of it.

I suppose you can figure out how it goes from there.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

And how bench technician at repair center can "inspect" the chip that has known intermittent design flaws? Clairvoyance?

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

And what it has to do with mixer still being useable for the gig?
Especially since I still (with some inconvenience) can use FX in my Helicon VoiceworksII sitting in the same rack.

[Arny Krueger]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b22d4ff1-89f2-4151...@googlegroups.com...

> On Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:52:05 AM UTC-5, Mike Rivers wrote:
>> On 7/29/2013 6:55 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Replace a chip, maybe?
>>
>> > Replace it with what? Another chip with same problem?
>>
>>
>>
>> No, another chip that's soldered in by hand and carefully inspected. And
>>
>> while he's at it, inspect the rest of the board for bad solder joints.

>> For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

> And how bench technician at repair center can "inspect" the chip that has
> known intermittent design flaws? Clairvoyance?

If the design flaw is known, then it often relates to a batch of chips that
were made with the same flaw. Chips are made in batches that are essentially
identical. The exterior of the chip can have a batch number, lot number,
date code, some kind of marking that is unique to chips that were made the
same. If you look at a chip it has a number of markings in addition to the
type number and manufacturer's name. Some of them relate to the batch that
the chip is a member of.

Someone in the know sends out a memo with the code number, and the technican
inspects the chip to see if it has that marking.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

That's why I emailed Behringer twice with description of the problem and the question if the chip problem was identified and fixed. Got only auto-responce: "Send the unit in repair center".

[Scott Dorsey]

ssmus...@gmail.com <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> No, another chip that's soldered in by hand and carefully inspected. And
>>
>> while he's at it, inspect the rest of the board for bad solder joints.
>

>And how bench technician at repair center can "inspect" the chip that has known intermittent design flaws? Clairvoyance?

Actually, with RoHS stuff I don't even bother inspecting solder joints, I
just reflow all of them. But with leaded solder it's just a matter of a
magnifier.

[Don Pearce]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:28:55 -0700 (PDT), "ssmus...@gmail.com"
<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:

>That's why I emailed Behringer twice with description of the problem and the question if the chip problem was identified and fixed. Got only auto-responce: "Send the unit in repair center".

Which is, of course, precisely what you should have done.

d

[Don Pearce]

On 30 Jul 2013 13:13:21 -0400, klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>ssmus...@gmail.com <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> No, another chip that's soldered in by hand and carefully inspected. And
>>>
>>> while he's at it, inspect the rest of the board for bad solder joints.
>>
>>And how bench technician at repair center can "inspect" the chip that has known intermittent design flaws? Clairvoyance?
>
>Actually, with RoHS stuff I don't even bother inspecting solder joints, I
>just reflow all of them. But with leaded solder it's just a matter of a
>magnifier.
>--scott

I'm going to agree hare. Solder braid followed by proper tin/lead with
rosin flux. The more colophony the better.

d

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

I did re-solder the joints all around processor area in my original unit (the one I bought used). Didn't help.
Also the problem always disappears (at least for a while) every time I re-boot FX processor by holding down FX select knob on power up (Technician recommendation). That strongly indicates chip internal problem that has nothing to do with solder joints.

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Brilliant idea!
Just waste money and time without any results.
'been there, done that too many times.....

[Bob Quintal]

"ssmus...@gmail.com" <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:c77d46e2-9fa2-4e4e...@googlegroups.com:

Or maybe a problem with the power going to the chip that causes the
ic to oscillate.
Have you checked the filter capacitors near the microcircuit?

--
Bob Q.
PA is y I've altered my address.

[Chuck]

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 11:29:11 -0700, walk...@nv.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>Mike Rivers <mm1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/29/2013 10:40 AM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > And when I posted the problem on Behriner users forum another guy
>> > reported EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM! The unit I bought brand new just ran
>> > out of warranty, so I am stuck with 2 lemmons from Behringer.
>>
>> You got a response (two, actually) from a customer support person at
>> Behringer. They want your unit (or units) to study the problem. Don't
>> worry about them being just out of warranty. Get them into the hands of
>> the people who can help. They aren't doing you any good, and we sure
>> can't help you.
>>
>> If you didn't get a useful reply from CA...@music-group.com try again.
>> Point them to the forum thread and ask where and how to ship your units
>> off to get the suspicious board replaced. Don't tell them they have a
>> design problem. There may be a manufacturing engineering problem that
>> causes the intermittent behavior, and the best way they can fix that is
>> to study known defective units.
>>
>> Don't waste your time bitching here, do something pro-active to help
>> yourself and other users of Behringer products that share the same
>> effects circuit board.
>
>What Mike said. Keep in mind that one's behavior may generate a positive
>or negative response from those capable of offering assistance. A good
>attitude and restraint in thinking one is qualified to assess the root
>of a problem can go a long way in the direction of satisfactory
>resolution.
>
>All Behringer kit is not created alike. Years ago Behringer replaced a
>couple of DEQ2496's I'd installed in a dance studio, which failed just
>out of warranty. The replacement units are still working, as are the
>others that were installed. This is roughly six years of 12 to 16 hour
>days, 360+ days a year.
>
>A wide variety of causes may underlie this type of repeated failure. The
>Great Capacitor Formula Robbery comes to mind, a situation that affected
>electronics of very many types from lots of manufacturers, for a long
>time.
>
>Diagnosis is unlikely if one does not have the failed examples to
>examine. Short of that it's guesswork, and welcome to the innernut.


There was one Behringer unit from the bad electrolyte days that I
looked at that had over 50 bad electrolytics. It went into the trash.

[geoff]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e8087613-08b7-4a9b...@googlegroups.com...

>
> Behringer offered help AFTER I uploaded the video.
> Before that I didn't get much response from them. And they even closed the
> thread on the subject I put up on their users forum.
> http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?1284-Problems-with-RX1202FX

I wonder why ....

Where you bullied as a child ?

geoff

[geoff]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:50be2d89-d36e-4f04...@googlegroups.com...

I tried it every possible way. Nothing that I do in mixer section has any
effect on FX processor. And there is no way to route FX anywhere. FX
processor is hard wired to Mains/Control room. There is only SOLO button
that lets you listen FX only on Control outs. It has no effect on the
problem.

I'd suggest you send it/them in and get them fixed. Or throw them away and
get something else.

What do you hope to acheive by continuing your seemingly increasingly
pointless crusade here ?

geoff

[geoff]

"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message

news:kt88ev$asq$1...@panix2.panix.com...

>>>
>>> But it says "Pro" in the name ;-)
>>>
>>That's as may be, but this side of the Atlantic, "Pro" doesn't always
>>mean "professional", there's another word that starts the same way....
>
> Prolapsis?
> --scott

Prosecute. We must prosecute those nasty B-people !

Or maybe prod or proctoloise them.

geoff

[geoff]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:af5b7733-4b0d-4419...@googlegroups.com...

>> Someone in the know sends out a memo with the code number, and the
>> technican
>>
>> inspects the chip to see if it has that marking.
>
> That's why I emailed Behringer twice with description of the problem and
> the question if the chip problem was identified and fixed. Got only
> auto-responce: "Send the unit in repair center".

So maybe that's what you should do then.

geoff

[Ron C]

I'm thinking it suggests there is no commonly reported
problem with those symptoms, or there may be more
than one potential cause.
Thing is, these are low cost units that aren't designed
with service in mind.
==
Later...
Ron Capik
--

[John Williamson]

Bob Quintal wrote:
> "ssmus...@gmail.com" <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in

>> I did re-solder the joints all around processor area in my
>> original unit (the one I bought used). Didn't help. Also the
>> problem always disappears (at least for a while) every time I
>> re-boot FX processor by holding down FX select knob on power up
>> (Technician recommendation). That strongly indicates chip internal
>> problem that has nothing to do with solder joints.
>>
>
> Or maybe a problem with the power going to the chip that causes the
> ic to oscillate.
> Have you checked the filter capacitors near the microcircuit?
>

Or. as he says Behringer have now asked him to do, put the whole lot
into a box and sent it back for them to fix.

[John Williamson]

geoff wrote:
> <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e8087613-08b7-4a9b...@googlegroups.com...
>> Behringer offered help AFTER I uploaded the video.
>> Before that I didn't get much response from them. And they even closed the
>> thread on the subject I put up on their users forum.
>> http://forum.behringer.com/showthread.php?1284-Problems-with-RX1202FX
>
> I wonder why ....
>

I can see why they closed the thread. It's a shame we can't do the same
here.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/30/2013 11:35 AM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> And how bench technician at repair center can "inspect" the chip that
> has known intermittent design flaws? Clairvoyance?

You don't know that, so quit harping on it.

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/30/2013 12:28 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> That's why I emailed Behringer twice with description of the problem
> and the question if the chip problem was identified and fixed. Got
> only auto-responce: "Send the unit in repair center".

Sounds like a case of an irresistible force and an immovable object.
They don't want to admit that there's something wrong unless they see
the mixer, and you aren't making any effort to getting the mixer to them.


--

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/30/2013 1:44 PM, ssmus...@gmail.com wrote:

> Didn't help. Also the problem always
> disappears (at least for a while) every time I re-boot FX processor
> by holding down FX select knob on power up

Maybe it really disappears when you power it down and up again,
suggesting that perhaps it's a faulty capacitor. Or a faulty IC. You've
put a soldering iron on it already. Put a scope on it and analyzer the
noise, That might give you a real clue. It's what any bench technician
would do.

[Scott Dorsey]

Chuck <chu...@deja.net> wrote:
>
>There was one Behringer unit from the bad electrolyte days that I
>looked at that had over 50 bad electrolytics. It went into the trash.

With a desoldering tool, I can do 50 bad electrolytics in two hours easy.

I recapped an entire Interface console in a day. I was cramped and sore
but it sounded great.

The desoldering tool is worth every penny. It will pay for itself in
one job like that. It doesn't work any better than a Soldapulit but
it sure works a lot faster.

[Trevor]

"Les Cargill" <lcarg...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:kt67gd$5ng$1...@dont-email.me...
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>> On 7/29/2013 8:15 AM, Les Cargill wrote:
>>>> Software isn't intermittent.
>>> Yes, it is. Frequently.
>>
>> No, it isn't. The environment is intermittent.
>
> *Sigh* Software can be, and frequently is intermittent.
> Trust me on this...

The code is not intermittent, only the causal triggers vary making it appear
intermittent.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

<ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5e3ebc03-78bd-40c3...@googlegroups.com...
> Dah..........
> And how exactly bad solder joint can cause EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM in 4
> different units?

It's called automatic fabrication. Poor solder masks can easily lead to
consistantly bad solder joints.
(I'm Not saying that is the most likely cause however.)

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Scott Dorsey" <klu...@panix.com> wrote in message

news:kt635a$f0t$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> This is the absolute cheapest bargain basement gear. You should be
> pleased
> that it works at all given how cheaply it is made.

Exactly, but I do give credit to Behringer for selling their cheaply made
gear cheaply, rather than charging more money for cheaply made gear as some
other manufacturers do. Especially so before Behrenger entered the SR market
and forced the bottom end prices down, thus making them affordable for the
occasional user.
As I always say, you can only guarantee you get what you pay for at the
bottom. Higher quality always costs more, but paying more is no guarantee of
higher quality unfortunately.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Gareth Magennis" <gareth....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:5zzJt.4735$%J5....@fx02.am4...
> Then contemplate buying a Neve instead, you may gain a little perspective.

Yes, the owners of Behringer mixers can obviously afford Neve instead :-)

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Ralf R. Radermacher" <foto...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1l6sicq.1x0krashj4p8cN%foto...@gmx.de...
> ssmus...@gmail.com <ssmus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> There are already 4 units out there (and still counting) with EXACTLY
>> THE SAME PROBLEM. Need more evidence of design flaw?
>
> Four out of how many thousand?
>
> Yes, we do indeed need more evidence. Come back if you've found... what
> shall we say... 400 faulty units?

It's quite possible there are 400 faulty units, and 396 people not making an
issue of it.

Trevor.

[Trevor]

"Mike Rivers" <mm1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kt8kco$1fi$1...@dont-email.me...
> This may be different on modern digital consoles (which have their own set
> of problems) but every mixer that I've known about that has a built-in
> effect unit has been compromised in one way or another. They want to add
> this feature for people who want it, but they don't want to make the mixer
> any more expensive because of it.

Funny, the Behringer mixers with FX all cost more than the equivalent models
without FX. Most of low range have the choice, and you gain absolutely
nothing but a cost saving by opting out.

Trevor.

[Ralf R. Radermacher]

Trevor <tre...@home.net> wrote:

> It's quite possible there are 400 faulty units, and 396 people not making an
> issue of it.

Sure. But our man on a mission had asked if we needed more _evidence_.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web : http://www.fotoralf.de

[Mike Rivers]

On 7/31/2013 2:14 AM, Trevor wrote:

> Funny, the Behringer mixers with FX all cost more than the equivalent models
> without FX. Most of low range have the choice, and you gain absolutely
> nothing but a cost saving by opting out.

Yes, that is funny. Most companies that make mixers don't have nearly as
many products in their mixer line as Behringer does. I guess that the
way they build 'em, it's not difficult to punch a couple more holes in
the chassis, stick in an FX chip, and charge a little more than the same
design without FX. They go the other way, too, putting the same X-32
mixer guts in several different packages differing only by the number
and type of input and output connectors, number of knobs, and display.
It's a good approach to being able to satisfy a wide range of customers
without having a large number of individual designs.

Mackie, on the other hand, doesn't have a 1640i with a built in effect
processor. They expect that you'll want to choose your own so they don't
make you spend your money on theirs. If you want a mixer with built-in
effects, you need to get one from the ProFX series which, like
Behringer's, is designated "pro."

[Scott Dorsey]

You can buy one console that will last fifty years or you can buy fifty
consoles that last one year....

[Scott Dorsey]

In article <ktavug$s9k$1...@dont-email.me>, Mike Rivers <mm1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Yes, that is funny. Most companies that make mixers don't have nearly as
>many products in their mixer line as Behringer does. I guess that the
>way they build 'em, it's not difficult to punch a couple more holes in
>the chassis, stick in an FX chip, and charge a little more than the same
>design without FX. They go the other way, too, putting the same X-32
>mixer guts in several different packages differing only by the number
>and type of input and output connectors, number of knobs, and display.
>It's a good approach to being able to satisfy a wide range of customers
>without having a large number of individual designs.

Bingo. Some of the companies doing this sort of thing (and I don't know if
Behringer is in that category) sell multiple products with different feature
sets and sometimes even totally different functions, which mostly differ in
software. Swap out the ROM, and your equalizer turns into a compressor....

[ssmus...@gmail.com]

Which console will last 50 years if you drag it around on the live gigs at 5 times a week avrg?